VN Ren'Py Young Again [S2 Ch. 5 Public] [Zargon_games]

[steelsmiter]

No "i'm so so very sorry your dad had to die while saving my life I hope you can forgive me" or anything other than "I heard your dad passed away".
Even for a non english speaker these two chats can't possibably make any sence and I am an english speaker.

For a given, very low value of English speaker, sure. The failure is your own awareness of how reality works. People who save others from vehicle impacts can survive. It's not common enough that it's noteworthy, but it can happen, factually. Even people severely injured. It's reasonable as a result of survival odds being nonzero to point out that mention of her dad's death was made. And within the confines of the plot that someone's verbal response to the event seemed like an equally valid opener.

 

[LWtbo]

So you prosume I am wrong and its because I don't know reality works .
so then I wouldn't know that say Around two-thirds of crashes in which people are killed or injured occur on roads with the vehical driving at 30 mph and that at that speed the vehical is travelling at 44 feet per second which would lead to a significant impact on any pedestrain or that studies show that 85% of pedestrians killed when struck by cars or car-derived vans, died in collision that occurred at impact speeds below 40mph, 45% at less than 30 mph and 5% at speeds below 20 mph.
Now I agree that in any case there are exceptions but the odds are against it given the fact the Dev states the car was aproaching at full speed Now I don't think for one minute he meant its full speed because thats likly to be about 100-110 mph.
and Pauls odd's of survival would be so unlikley its not worth mentioning. however since drivers on average travel at 10-20 mph above the posted street speed the majority of who freely abmit its the upper rather than lower estimate its fairly safe to prosume Paul was hit at between at about 40 mph or above so his chances were 85% or higher for death.

So again I say it was resonable for the MC to prosume the guy that saved his life had died doing so.
It is even more resonable since he was informed that one person died that the driver was far less likley to be the one that died which again leaves Paul as the dead person.

Add to that MC's statment to Ruby of "i'm alive thanks to him, He was a hero"

Means I still maintain that the conversation with the daughter didn't really make sence. and the responce to the son's comments about his dad where weak at best.

I am fully aware the Dev s not a native english speaker and I state a few times that despite this and the MC's looking to old I like the game and where its headed.

Dosn't mean I wont point out what I think is inconsistant in it, I want the game to do well and the Dev to suceed.

But feel free to argue with me if you wish just don't prosume what I do and Don't know and I won't prosume with you.

P.S. just because I point out stuff dosen't mean I'm asking or expecting the Dev to change anything it is afterall the Dev's game.

Just Saying.

 

[steelsmiter]

But feel free to argue with me if you wish just don't prosume what I do and Don't know and I won't prosume with you.

I'm not presuming anything, you've made it abundantly clear. the long response you made doesn't change anything about the fact that it is consistent to point out the fact that someone at some point mentioned her dad's death.

 

[LWtbo]

OK it would seem we have a missunderstanding here.
The way your first responce reads to me especialy with this line " The failure is your own awareness of how reality works. " is that you didn't think I knew what I was talking about.

Although I only worked out from your second responce that you seem to thnk that I was saying it made no sence for the MC to mentioned Emma dads death to Emma in the game.

This made no sence to me as I never said MC shouldn't of mentioned Emma's Dads death It is totaly logical to comisarate with someone over the death of a family member.

But what I was saying is its not the fact MC mentions the Dad's death but the way in which it is mentioned.
Example If I haven't seen you for years and just before I meet you I'm am told your dad died last year then when I meet you a would say "i'm sorry to hear your dad has passed"
But if I knew he had died yesterday I would say "I'm sorry your dad Died" or "I'm sorry your dad passed away"
And If I knew your dad died saving my life yesterday I would probably say "i'm sorry your dad died but he saved my life" or "i'm sorry your dad died" but as I know He died I wouldn't use the words "I sorry to hear " or "I heared your dad died"
they only apply if either you don't know untill just before talking to the dead persons relative or it was years ago they died and you are only just meeting the relative after not seeing them for an extended absence.

So its not the fact it's mentioned to emma but the way its fraised when its mentioned.

hope that makes it more understandable.

 

[steelsmiter]

But what I was saying is its not the fact MC mentions the Dad's death but the way in which it is mentioned.

That assessment is factually wrong.

Even for a non english speaker these two chats can't possibably make any sence and I am an english speaker.

Literally falsified by me, and English speaker who is superior in his ability to speak English in comparison to you. They literally make sense to an English speaker.

you didn't think I knew what I was talking about.

No, You continue to make it abundantly clear it's not a matter of opinion.

 

[Ghostredneck]

After a 2nd Playthrough and a deep look at the story, While not a deep philosophical story. It is a unique premise of the typical Family Romance Story. Its very well thought out and inventive. Keep developing the Character personalities and deepen the relationships and connections it will be great. While the visuals of midlife crisis didn't start out great, the writing is one of the most erotic Stories iv'e read in a while.

keep up the great work!! Zargon_games ....Create a Subscriber Star account and I'll happily support! I despise Patreon!

 

[215303j]

There are two questions:

1) If a dad suddenly dies in a car accident, how likely will it be that his children are completely unaffected by this?

2) If your friend is saved from certain death by your dad, who died to save him, would that change your perception of your dad? Do you think your friend would maybe be grateful to your dad, even though he didn't know him before?

My point is, even if your dad meant completely nothing to you (and from the game's intro, that's not entirely clear: the guy was detached but not abusive, maybe not loved but also not hated), there would still be some response, even if just to conform to society, which expects some kind of mourning.

 

[Ghostredneck]

I think your looking at the plot too deeply. This isn't a deep emotional Story like " Light of My Life " But I took it as a more Light hearted romance the families type story. Not saying the dev cant make it a deeper story . But basing it on what was presented.

 

[215303j]

I think your looking at the plot too deeply. This isn't a deep emotional Story like " Light of My Life " But I took it as a more Light hearted romance the families type story. Not saying the dev cant make it a deeper story . But basing it on what was presented.

That's a fair point, but I guess in that case the question is, does the relationship between the old MC and his children matter? I'd say that a better relationship would make the incest both harder to achieve (from the MC's side) as well as more effective when it is achieved. It's a balance, but all in all, I would prefer some kind of positive relationship between the old MC and his children.

 

[Ghostredneck]

Well i look at it like this, While the Dad died, His conciseness went into the younger body of the kid down the street. So now the MC gets to experience relationships with both Families and have connection to them...Its Brilliant when you think about it. Cant wait to see the Story going forward.

 

[steelsmiter]

My point is, even if your dad meant completely nothing to you (and from the game's intro, that's not entirely clear: the guy was detached but not abusive, maybe not loved but also not hated), there would still be some response, even if just to conform to society, which expects some kind of mourning.

I've gone against the grain of social norms regarding death rite conformity before. It's not hard for me to imagine that after 18+ years people start to hate a guy to be willing enough to go against those norms after me having done so for smaller lengths of times. Until I was about 28, I probably wouldn't have mourned my own dad, and definitely would not have pretended to because truth matters more to me than nearly anything else. But dad turned his life around after my cancer diagnosis the previous year, so we're in a different place regarding his mourning.

does the relationship between the old MC and his children matter? I'd say that a better relationship would make the incest both harder to achieve (from the MC's side) as well as more effective when it is achieved. It's a balance, but all in all, I would prefer some kind of positive relationship between the old MC and his children.

I'd say it only matters in the context that since they dehumanized his old body, he has a greater justification for not caring if they'd be squicked out knowing who the soul in MC was. Either that, or he can justify a new and different kind of "love" for his old children.

 

[215303j]

Until I was about 28, I probably wouldn't have mourned my own dad, and definitely would not have pretended to because truth matters more to me than nearly anything else. But dad turned his life around after my cancer diagnosis the previous year, so we're in a different place regarding his mourning.

Without wanting to get too personal, but did something bad happen between you and your dad?

Feel free to not answer, but I think that in the game, nothing really bad happened between the old MC and his family, he just neglected them. And I think that shouldn't be a good reason for such hatred towards the old MC.

Also, you come across as a pretty strong person. Lucas and especially Emma come across as pretty weak. So in my opinion there is a slight disconnect there as well. I'd say that a weak person is more likely to conform to what they think society asks of them.

I'd say it only matters in the context that since they dehumanized his old body, he has a greater justification for not caring if they'd be squicked out knowing who the soul in MC was. Either that, or he can justify a new and different kind of "love" for his old children.

That's pretty dark and I didn't get that vibe from the game, to be honest.

 

[steelsmiter]

Without wanting to get too personal, but did something bad happen between you and your dad?

Feel free to not answer, but I think that in the game, nothing really bad happened between the old MC and his family, he just neglected them. And I think that shouldn't be a good reason for such hatred towards the old MC.

There was neglect for most of it. There were about a dozen specific events over the years, a lot of alcoholism, and one firearms related incident at 24.

And I think that shouldn't be a good reason for such hatred towards the old MC.

Nobody who's neglected cares whether it's a good reason. It's the reason they have. Sometimes it's only a reason they have, but rest assured, when they have other reasons the reasons start with neglect. It hurt more that my dad tried to tell me if he had to choose between feeding me and drinking he'd choose drinking than it did when he tried to shoot me. So yeah, neglect related hatred is a thing.

Also, you come across as a pretty strong person. Lucas and especially Emma come across as pretty weak. So in my opinion there is a slight disconnect there as well. I'd say that a weak person is more likely to conform to what they think society asks of them.

Unless the reason they're weak is perceived as the the source of all their problems, weakness included. It makes sense to me that if Dad caused them to be weak inside they'd think of him as the source of all their problems. But that goes back to whether good reasons for things matter. There'd still be times in Dad's life where he wasn't the source of their problems, but they don't have to acknowledge them--people often don't. So they might not have a good reason for thinking he's the source of all their problems, but that doesn't particularly matter with regards to them thinking of him that way.

Maybe it's just me, but anecdotally, this game speaks more loudly to at least one guy who's suffered in life.

That's pretty dark and I didn't get that vibe from the game, to be honest.

Oh yeah, it's not in the game yet, just a random thought. Currently the relationship between Old MC and his children doesn't matter straight up as a matter of plot contrivance. It might for reasons you mentioned or reasons I mentioned. I just mentioned them within a very strict context, and you within a much broader scope. Like how Trevor Phillips is an allegory on the subject of GTA players.*
----------
*My response I mean. For many players it is what it is and they the player can treat NPCs like objects for whatever reason they want.

 

[215303j]

Well said steelsmiter !

Your story has some additional elements (especially the alcohol) that seems not present in the game but I get your point.

 

[LWtbo]

The failure is your own awareness of how reality works.

Literally falsified by me, and English speaker who is superior in his ability to speak English in comparison to you.

Thats the second direct insult you have directed towards me and although I may sympathise with your situation and what you went through in RL.
Not once did I directly insult you.
And everything you have sofar said in responce too me seems to just be argumentative and delibratly vague for the sake of it.
so I wish you a better life and I will just ignore you from now on.

 

[steelsmiter]

Thats the second direct insult you have directed towards me and although I may sympathise with your situation and what you went through in RL.
Not once did I directly insult you.
And everything you have sofar said in responce too me seems to just be argumentative and delibratly vague for the sake of it.
so I wish you a better life and I will just ignore you from now on.

Thanks, that's actually what I was trying to get you to do the whole time. Well, not just me, but the idiot notion that just because you don't have an opinion doesn't mean "no english speaker" would.

 

[steelsmiter]

Well said steelsmiter !

Your story has some additional elements (especially the alcohol) that seems not present in the game but I get your point.

Alcohol was just a vector for the neglect. The other incidents didn't hit nearly as hard in either a literal or figurative fashion.

 

[Zargon_games]

It's very interesting to read your interpretations of the game's characters, your opinions are certainly valuable and I can take ideas to incorporate in the game. As for Lucas and Emma's mourning and their disinterest in their father's death, I can understand that they may have taken death very lightly (even for an unloved father), but the reality is that the game doesn't aim to have a deep emotional story as Ghostrendeck mentions (and my idea wasn't to make the beginning of the game more depressing than already is haha). However, as history goes by, we will see more about this subject. keep in mind that people don't always express their feelings, and they don't always tell the truth

 

[Dyhart]

It's very interesting to read your interpretations of the game's characters, your opinions are certainly valuable and I can take ideas to incorporate in the game. As for Lucas and Emma's mourning and their disinterest in their father's death, I can understand that they may have taken death very lightly (even for an unloved father), but the reality is that the game doesn't aim to have a deep emotional story as Ghostrendeck mentions (and my idea wasn't to make the beginning of the game more depressing than already is haha). However, as history goes by, we will see more about this subject. keep in mind that people don't always express their feelings, and they don't always tell the truth

Yeah that prologue was rather depressing but was quite necessary.

I'd also like to throw in the idea that, Emma and Lucas may not have wished to discuss it. I'm sure Lucas for one feels like he can't be sad around his buddy so he pretty much changed the direction of the conversation the moment his dad was brought up. He certainly seems the type.

 

[Deleted member 1571716]

Why the fuck is some people trying to push emotional bullshit in this game? Not everyone gives a fuck if someone dies. People die, it's life. Get over it.