VN Ren'Py Zia [v0.5] [Studio Zia]

[Deleted member 2577953]

I'm seeing confusions regarding how the game was pulled into the whole lesbian tag situation.

So, here's what happened in the exact same order:

1. 0.1 was released last year, with lesbian tag (in accordance with f95's definition for the tag)

2. In it, I had stated that there will be an option to have a "lesbian only" route (again, in accordance to f95's definition of the tag)

3. The problem was on MY end this time. I assumed the starting scene where she simply kisses a guy (and then kicks him out of the house, thinking what a loser he was) was not worth anything in terms of content. And hence, it didn't need addressing.

Clearly I hadn't understood how "strict" some players were in their preferences for those kind of scenes. So, I fully take responsibility for that one.

4. HOWEVER, post that point I've been adding notes and stuff at every stage of the development and release like:

Removing the word "lesbian" from the developer notes and genre section, started using the term "female-female" for the scenes, informing in advance about the non-skippable hetero scene in the notes, and (yesterday) adding that giant disclaimer about Zia being bisexual.

(Some of these changes were made as early as in 0.1 and 0.2 - almost 7 TO 10 MONTHS AGO)

So, there has been plenty of time for those who seek "only female-female" content to... just avoid this thread and find something else they enjoy.

Yet, most, if not all the conversations about the game continue about this issue only. So, I do not know what else I can do to convey the message any more clearly.

---

Funnily, I had removed that lesbian tag in the "genre" section ages ago too. But for some reason, it still seems to be showing the tag at the top of the thread.

I do not fully know how the rules of thread tags work. But if it's possible, I'd be grateful if any of the mods could just remove that tag at the top of the thread.

Maybe that would help lessen the confusion in some way too.

 

[Deleted member 2577953]

There's nothing to say about Zia/Nina in this update, but Zia's scene with "old lady" was nice. Hope there'll be options for Zia also be in charge in future.

For sure, there will definitely be scenes in the future with her in charge

 

[Deleted member 2577953]

I get that it's kinda rough to deal with a debate like this when it was never the intended angle of the game, but at the same time I struggle to take the statement about valuing feedback seriously when apparently keeping a fully superfluous and pretty unimaginative, as well as unfunny, "joke" around that severely hampers the ability of quite a lot of people to enjoy what the actual game is supposed to be is mandatory for the story, despite not adding anything of value to it. Edit: said story that only starts after the "joke" which is a full, dragged out and extremely uncomfortable scene at best (for anyone interested in lesbian romance)

Yes, it is a throwaway joke of a scene - in terms of its treatment. But, at the same time, it does serve a purpose.

It establishes how whimsical, (and almost reckless) she is when it comes to getting with someone. Which, hopefully, the subsequent updates have only reaffirmed.

This was something I did not want to specifically "point out" at the very early stages of release, as it ties directly into the core of Zia's character.

I wanted the audience to feel that on their own. Hence, I didn't outright mention it. (At least as far as I can remember.)

But 4 updates in, I don't see any point in holding that detail back anymore.

I understand how the Nick scene might feel dragging and unfunny. But that was the point. That, despite the guy being unfunny and annoying, she still takes him home.

Of course, I won't defend myself saying nonsense like - "See? There's a reason behind it. Your argument is invalid."

If that scene took some people out of the game for being "boring", then I simply failed to convince them enough to stick around. And I can totally understand that.

The trouble is, that scene also seems to be invoking intense feelings of being tricked, despite my constant efforts to "warn" players of its presence over the past several months, in every way I can.

That is the only aspect of that issue that gets me down, as the thread seems to be eternally stuck on that one confusion.

---

On a related note...

Sex is heavily implied but to be honest I don't know if the dev is capable of rendering a pussy or dick at all as none were visible so far. And IMHO that's OK.

That's it.

That one is on me. Not the artist.

I specifically requested Sarnko to not show any genitals till now.

In my mind, the "actually" intimate moments of Zia have not yet been told.

I get it, it's such a weird approach.

But I wanted to have something in there that implied that, all these erotic moments - they do not involve any "real" feelings yet.

 

[c3p0]

Funnily, I had removed that lesbian tag in the "genre" section ages ago too. But for some reason, it still seems to be showing the tag at the top of the thread.

I do not fully know how the rules of thread tags work. But if it's possible, I'd be grateful if any of the mods could just remove that tag at the top of the thread.

Maybe that would help lessen the confusion in some way too.

The tags under the gerne spoiler and the ones on top of the page are two separate things.
For that you could either report the opening post or ping a mod/uploader to adjust it. Yet, if there is content, a per the zone's tag definition, then it is valid and should have the tag.

As for the other you can't do anything beside hope and wait.

 

[Deleted member 2577953]

The tags under the gerne spoiler and the ones on top of the page are two separate things.
For that you could either report the opening post or ping a mod/uploader to adjust the. Yet, if there is content, a per the zone's tag definition, then it is valid and should have the tag.

As for the other you can't do anything beside hope and wait.

Thank you for the clarification.

Yes, the tag is valid as per the site's definition. There are female-female scenes in here. But at this point, the tag seems to be causing more harm than good.

So, I'll just request the removal from my end and leave the decision (whether or not it should be removed) up to the mods.

 

[Brannon]

Thank you for the clarification.

Yes, the tag is valid as per the site's definition. There are female-female scenes in here. But at this point, the tag seems to be causing more harm than good.

So, I'll just request the removal from my end and leave the decision (whether or not it should be removed) up to the mods.

As said previously the tags are inclusive and not exclusive.
Meaning if there is lesbian content in a game (strictly speaking so far there is not in terms of actual visible sex, "only" in intent) the TAG is correct.

You could request the removal but moderators usually™ do not play games to judge for themselves. They are to busy moderating the forum and there are thousands of reports each day.

Meaning usually™ they rely on the reports.
Example:
If there are enough reports for this game that the NTR, Futa/Trans, Gay, Blackmail, ... TAG is missing they add it without further confirmation.

Yes, that did happen before and actually happens relatively often with smaller games where the developer is not on this site often or at all.

I get it, it's such a weird approach.

But I wanted to have something in there that implied that, all these erotic moments - they do not involve any "real" feelings yet.

Weird?
Yes.
Bad?
No.

 

[Deleted member 2577953]

As said previously the tags are inclusive and not exclusive.
Meaning if there is lesbian content in a game (strictly speaking so far there is not in terms of actual visible sex, "only" in intent) the TAG is correct.

You could request the removal but moderators usually™ do not play games to judge for themselves. They are to busy moderating the forum and there are thousands of reports each day.

Meaning usually™ they rely on the reports.
Example:
If there are enough reports for this game that the NTR, Futa/Trans, Gay, Blackmail, ... TAG is missing they add it without further confirmation.

Yes, that did happen before and actually happens relatively often with smaller games where the developer is not on this site often or at all.

Yeah, just saw a notification - that the request got rejected.

Oh well, at least I tried everything I can.

Now I can (hopefully) move on from this issue without any regrets.

Weird?
Yes.
Bad?
No.

Happy to hear that

 

[Olivia_V]

Thank you for the clarification.

Yes, the tag is valid as per the site's definition. There are female-female scenes in here. But at this point, the tag seems to be causing more harm than good.

So, I'll just request the removal from my end and leave the decision (whether or not it should be removed) up to the mods.

Honestly, it's the tagging system that's the problem, not you.

Too many of those with "strict" definitions have been burned hard by games with "lesbian" tags that end up with female protagonists who end up as cocksleeves, but oh hey here's a few token lesbian scenes to get that tag in. So some people have taken to trying to complain those games away to make the "lesbian" tag more relevant. Your game should qualify under a general "lesbian" tag, but the lack of a more definitive "no dick lesbian route" tag has made some site members turn their frustrations on your "hetero" non-sex scene and lumping your game in with the trash. Maybe there should be a "non-penetrative sexual harrassment by a male" tag too, I dunno.

Plus, there's some frustration within the lesbian community that far too many lesbian stories involve coming out and sexual discovery, which necessarily requires the introduction (and intrusion) of men into the story. I'm not one of those who are pissed about it (I'm too old lol), but their sentiments may have just spilled over even onto the wider group that generally follow women-loving-women stories.

My advice is, you know you have a full "lesbian route" that isn't just token filler, just make it a good one. Let the berthas stew, but you keep your vision. Far too many game devs here flame out trying to please everybody. Keep the tag too, because the problems of the tagging system are not your problems, they're F95's. One of my favorite "lesbian" storylines came from "Inside Jennifer", of which your female MC must trudge through half the game taking dick left and right before you met the lone female love interest and the storyline kicked in. But when it did, it had more heart, passion, and even joy, than a lot of the no dick "lesbian routes" that are just thinly-veiled harem stories. Since it was one of the last things the dev implemented, I thought it'd just an excuse for some token lesbian scenes, but I was so wrong, lol!

 

[Brannon]

Honestly, it's the tagging system that's the problem, not you.

Too many of those with "strict" definitions have been burned hard by games with "lesbian" tags that end up with female protagonists who end up as cocksleeves, but oh hey here's a few token lesbian scenes to get that tag in. So some people have taken to trying to complain those games away to make the "lesbian" tag more relevant. Your game should qualify under a general "lesbian" tag, but the lack of a more definitive "no dick lesbian route" tag has made some site members turn their frustrations on your "hetero" non-sex scene and lumping your game in with the trash. Maybe there should be a "non-penetrative sexual harrassment by a male" tag too, I dunno.

Plus, there's some frustration within the lesbian community that far too many lesbian stories involve coming out and sexual discovery, which necessarily requires the introduction (and intrusion) of men into the story. I'm not one of those who are pissed about it, but their sentiments may have just spilled over even onto the wider group that generally follow women-loving-women stories.

My advice is, you know you have a full "lesbian route" that isn't just token filler, just make it a good one. Let the berthas stew, but you keep your vision. Far too many game devs here flame out trying to please everybody. Keep the tag too, because the problems of the tagging system are not your problems, they're F95's. One of my favorite "lesbian" storylines came from "Inside Jennifer", of which your female MC must trudge through half the game taking dick left and right before you met the lone female love interest and the storyline kicked in. But when it did, it had more heart, passion, and even joy, than a lot of the no dick "lesbian routes" that are just thinly-veiled harem stories.

Yes.

Plus some developers "listen to the fans" and rebuild/rewrite their own story, ultimately leading to them not really liking their own story/game and quitting with a burnout.

Some "only" "listen to the fans" on patreon and implement the changes for them.
What most of those developers fail to understand is the difference between short term and long term patronage.
Devs who are ... open to negotiations about the content of their game can often see a short term influx in revenue but after the first celebration is over they lose support from patrons left, right and center because it is now known that the content is not stable i.e. what is "set in stone" today can be tipped over tomorrow.

 

[Deleted member 2577953]

My advice is, you know you have a full "lesbian route" that isn't just token filler, just make it a good one.

Thank you, that is the plan

(I tried to see if there was any way to make things better, just one last time. But I understand there's only so much I can try.)

So, I'll just work on giving the best story I can to those who choose to stay with us on the journey.

 

[MixQQ]

hope you also have a good plans for straight route

 

[Deleted member 2577953]

hope you also have a good plans for straight route

Oh, hell yeah!!! Both the straight routes are going to be rich with intimate moments of love, and drama.

I know things have been a bit slow on the straight route, but I assure that the wait will be worth it.

(0.5 will officially kick off the straight route with a bang. So, that wait won't be too long either.)

 

[Brannon]

Oh, hell yeah!!! Both the straight routes are going to be rich with intimate moments of love, lust, and drama.

I know things have been a bit slow on the straight route, but I assure that the wait will be worth it.

(0.5 will officially kick off the straight route with a bang. So, that wait won't be too long either.)

I am a big fan or "Games with Porn" and not a fan of "Porn with Games".
To which I mean I prefer a good story over being able to see sex scene after sex scene with a bit of story sprinkled on top to superfluously connect them.

The sex is kind of the goal but it is the path to that that intrigues many (serious) players.
For having a quick wank I can easily open xhamster or pornhub ...

 

[Kagarus]

Finally got around to playing the update, it was fun. Especially Zia going "let's get dommed by a ghost lady" without the slightest hesitation

I encountered a small technical bug with the text, the black border is sometimes not present on the parts of the letters that protrude (first and last letter/symbol, bottom parts of g and y), example:

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Minor issue that's easy to ignore, but thought I should report it nonetheless.

 

[Deleted member 2577953]

Finally got around to playing the update, it was fun. Especially Zia going "let's get dommed by a ghost lady" without the slightest hesitation

Really glad you liked it

I encountered a small technical bug with the text, the black border is sometimes not present on the parts of the letters that protrude (first and last letter/symbol, bottom parts of g and y), example:

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Minor issue that's easy to ignore, but thought I should report it nonetheless.

Yes, that keeps happening every now and then. I tried tweaking around on the effect a bit, but I only seemed to be making it worse. So, I decided to leave it as it is. Will give it another try this upcoming update.

 

[Overlord070]

Interesting so far.

From my understanding we will have to choose between straight and lesbian content? or can we see both?

 

[Deleted member 2577953]

Interesting so far.

From my understanding we will have to choose between straight and lesbian content? or can we see both?

While the two major routes are primarily "female-female" and "male-female" in nature,

1. You'll have minor (optional) scenes involving the opposite too.

2. You'll also have a key moment or two, where you can completely switch to the other side. (Again, optional)

 

[R1k0]

Cute game, Zia and Nina such a lovely couple. But I would like a continuation of the story started in the first two chapters.

 

[Overlord070]

While the two major routes are primarily "female-female" and "male-female" in nature,

1. You'll have minor (optional) sex scenes involving the opposite too.

2. You'll also have a key moment or two, where you can completely switch to the other side. (Again, optional)

Ah shame you can't choose to go for both in the same save but thanks for the clarification.

 

[Deleted member 2577953]

Cute game, Zia and Nina such a lovely couple. But I would like a continuation of the story started in the first two chapters.

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