VN Ren'Py Superhuman [v0.982] [WeirdWorld]

[weezal]

I don’t even get what this disagreement is about

nobody knows what’s gonna happen so let’s just wait and see.
Saving Laurie might be important or it might not. We’ll see

 

[KKStrider]

Yeah no kidding, when the best counter argument you have is a meme, there is no debate. Everything I've said is factual, it doesn't change the fact that you're wrong. If he was the master of checks and scripts, then he'd know that everything I said was correct. He's main point that "lore is more important than than saving a character" is supported only by speculation. There were many instances where he's trying to spin the argument in his favor by changing the topic.

If you're so confident I'm wrong, then tell me what's wrong with what I've said, and state your evidence

Man, it's been like 15 hours. Fifteen. Let it go, all he said was that characters that are killable tend to get the amount of content they receive significantly reduced, which is objectively undeniably true as no developer wants to waste hours on end for something most players might never see. He never said NO content, he said LESS.

At no point did he state that lore was more important than saving a character, which would be a stupid thing to say when the game is a damn visual novel that encourages multiple playthroughs. Nor did he say that there 100% wouldn't be any payoff to saving a character, as he literally just mentioned several instances where the developer either changed something (the 100 power check) or had something pay off way, way later (Tiffany finally giving you your power after so much time waiting). He knows the future of development and story is unpredictable just as much as you do.

You're fighting demons of your own conjuring, jumping at shadows and strawmen of your own imagining based on an accidental misreading and plain ignorance. Let it go. Or at least try and fight in the off-topic before a mod comes and straight up fucks all of us, nukes most of the fucking page and drops the threat of a thread ban. They can and will do that if the wrong one comes along. Again. Seriously.

 

[lorkdubo]

That's debatable. There's actually quite a few characters you can kill off in the Corruption path, just to gain more corruption. So far, choosing not to kill some of the characters seem to make a difference. Sparing Danica makes it possible to succeed in the B rank Hunt, and earns you Danica affection. Historically if you can build Affection on a girl, then there will eventually be H-scenes with her. Sparing Jake seems to make it possible for Mia to fully regain her memories at the Bonfire event. Not killing Christie is mandatory to avoid a Dead End. Not killing Demi keeps her path open & is required for the Clover Demi H-scene, Sparing Clover (from Death or jail) grants +2 Demi affection & is required for the Clover Demi H-scene. Not killing cops during the Mall event is required to unlock a later Brianna sex scene It's speculative, but I would not be surprised if saving Laurie, a superhuman with CC abilities, and special requirements to save, winds up paying dividends in the long run. Not unlike beating Valravn without Brianna's help.


What you're saying is purely speculation. There are other points in the game, particularly on Corruption path, where you get a Dead End, but also a lot of interesting lore. I'm referring to the early Ella fight where you actually beat her and you encounter the monster that turned you into a Superhuman, and then an Unknown entity kills it, surprising even Ella. The other case is the Lvl 3 evolution, where it's possible to ask the Eye entity a question, get denied, then say Yes, then die and come back for a lot of interesting lore. In both cases, there's no payoff to unlocking it (aside from the exclusive Ella sex scene), because you obviously die shortly after, but it's the only way to get that lore.

Overall, I think the rewards for keeping certain characters alive and getting the best ending from fights has a bigger payoff than collecting lore. And it will probably continue to have a greater payoff moving forward. So far, the game has snowballed the effects of good choices even from early game (like the 1st Michael fight). Those small advantages and choices wind up making a big difference in major fight outcomes. I would not be surprised if the story's true ending, depends on getting ideal outcomes and meeting very demanding stat cutoffs.

That +1 skill is such a bullshit decision to be honest. It really is a Big BIG decision.

 

[DrakoGhoul]

I don’t even get what this disagreement is about

nobody knows what’s gonna happen so let’s just wait and see.
Saving Laurie might be important or it might not. We’ll see

Well, when you really put out what Laurie has and how important she could be to the plot, it amounts to miniscule gain.

- Laurie has a crystal infection power, which isn't really all that important after the Battle of Diamonds. Especially when we're starting to fight Level 3/Class B stuff.

- She's Level 2, which also means she's not all that important in HERO.

- Outside of low level monsters, she's pretty useless.

- Her monster parent likely is some random B Class or lower monster so it likely plays no part in the later game.

- She isn't exactly strong while also being mentally weak. Sure, her infection will handle most things near her Level, but her progression is slow and she's not all that reliable if it fails to work. As seen when she fought Deryl's Chimera.

- We already had sex with her once so there's no sex scene obligation needed for her.

When you really look at her kit and her position in HERO, it's absolutely safe to say she'll be irrelevant going forward. She's not like Alice, Michael, Deryl and MC. They all have unique things that uplifts them. If Laurie was a much better fighter or had something that heavily tied into the plot, then maybe I could see her being important in the future. She, unfortunately, doesn't have anything which is why she was killed off by Jared.

 

[Gtdead]

Yeah no kidding, when the best counter argument you have is a meme, there is no debate. Everything I've said is factual, it doesn't change the fact that you're wrong. If he was the master of checks and scripts, then he'd know that everything I said was correct. He's main point that "lore is more important than than saving a character" is supported only by speculation. There were many instances where he's trying to spin the argument in his favor by changing the topic.

If you're so confident I'm wrong, then tell me what's wrong with what I've said, and state your evidence

No, you made many errors. I really didn't want to deconstruct everything but I hope these examples will suffice.

1) The Deryl 100 power check is for Laurie, if you don't Hesitate you automatically win the fight without checks. Against Rebis Deryl you only need 1 derylwin point that you can get by destroying the sword.
2) You don't need Tiffany's money because you gain enough to buy anything important as of the latest update, from perfect relationship score with Amber/Emily to all the new items from Shopkeep, as long as you give a detailed description of the ceremony infiltration. I explained this on a post a few pages back. You probably have enough money to buy a dildo too although I don't bother with that content.
3) If you have less than 28 skill agaisnt the Asura you just miss 1 skill point and 1 relationship point, you gain the +10 power and money no matter what as long as you agree to fight it.
4) You can reach 100 power without the horn. Max power attainable before evolution is 115. The horn accounts for 10 of it.
5) There are only 2 relationship checks in the game. Jake which determines if he will force you to shoot yourself during prison, and Nico for the sex scene. Every other interaction is based on boolean variables. WW himself has said in the past that relationship points are not very important and you can successfully complete all college romances by being a complete asshole to them if you know what you are doing.

Aside from that, you are debating with a strawman, saying that I'm speculating when I state facts or arguing that I support killing the cast, while completely disregarding the only actual point I've tried to make, which is speculation about the eye based on an educated guess after taking a look at the script.

Just drop it.

 

[KingAgamemnon]

Well, when you really put out what Laurie has and how important she could be to the plot, it amounts to miniscule gain.

- Laurie has a crystal infection power, which isn't really all that important after the Battle of Diamonds. Especially when we're starting to fight Level 3/Class B stuff.

- She's Level 2, which also means she's not all that important in HERO.

- Outside of low level monsters, she's pretty useless.

- Her monster parent likely is some random B Class or lower monster so it likely plays no part in the later game.

- She isn't exactly strong while also being mentally weak. Sure, her infection will handle most things near her Level, but her progression is slow and she's not all that reliable if it fails to work. As seen when she fought Deryl's Chimera.

- We already had sex with her once so there's no sex scene obligation needed for her.

When you really look at her kit and her position in HERO, it's absolutely safe to say she'll be irrelevant going forward. She's not like Alice, Michael, Deryl and MC. They all have unique things that uplifts them. If Laurie was a much better fighter or had something that heavily tied into the plot, then maybe I could see her being important in the future. She, unfortunately, doesn't have anything which is why she was killed off by Jared.

I mean, isn't the fact that the MC effectively learned a new skill through her important? Perhaps if we didn't save Laurie, we would never have been able to learn this "freeze" skill, which itself might have implications in the future.

 

[ItzSyther]

I mean, isn't the fact that the MC effectively learned a new skill through her important? Perhaps if we didn't save Laurie, we would never have been able to learn this "freeze" skill, which itself might have implications in the future.

Not really.

A move MC learns no matter what is his bone spike tails (forgettin actual name) but they played an important role in MC's early training and potential fight against Ella.

If the MC fights Ella he uses them but if he decides not to he still learns to use em (if I remember right).

So the MC is bound to learn things if they are important enough with or without the person or event causing it to appear to begin with (cause he'll come up with it on his own).

 

[DrakoGhoul]

I mean, isn't the fact that the MC effectively learned a new skill through her unimportant? Perhaps if we didn't save Laurie, we would never have been able to learn this "freeze" skill, which itself might have implications in the future.

Not really. Even with her dead, he likely would've learned it at a later date, if the situation arose for it. That's also not the level of importance I'm referring to. Relegating her to a skill teacher would still lead her to the same level of importance or lack there of. Once the MC learned it, her use is gone yet again.

 

[Gtdead]

I mean, isn't the fact that the MC effectively learned a new skill through her important? Perhaps if we didn't save Laurie, we would never have been able to learn this "freeze" skill, which itself might have implications in the future.

Narratively it may be somewhat important, but practically this game does not have such RPG elements. There hasn't been a single instance where MC learned a new ability from gated content, statwise or choicewise. MC's progression is pretty much on rails.

 

[KingAgamemnon]

Not really.

A move MC learns no matter what is his bone spike tails (forgettin actual name) but they played an important role in MC's early training and potential fight against Ella.

If the MC fights Ella he uses them but if he decides not to he still learns to use em (if I remember right).

So the MC is bound to learn things if they are important enough with or without the person or event causing it to appear to begin with (cause he'll come up with it on his own).

Not really. Even with her dead, he likely would've learned it at a later date, if the situation arose for it. That's also not the level of importance I'm referring to. Relegating her to a skill teacher would still lead her to the same level of importance or lack there of. Once the MC learned it, her use is gone yet again.

Narratively it may be somewhat important, but practically this game does not have such RPG elements. There hasn't been a single instance where MC learned a new ability from gated content, statwise or choicewise. MC's progression is pretty much on rails.

I mean, I personally think the fact that it was a move that the MC had to use on someone else is something they wouldn't come across for a long while, and we were still in the middle of the evolution trance, so this would be something we wouldn't even think about being able to do for a while. Since Ella makes a point when talking to Jake that being conscious and aware during your evolution teaches you things that you otherwise wouldn't be able to learn.

Granted, whether Laurie is important to the story or not isn't super important to me, considering I'm just trying to acquire all of the females, but this freeze ability seems pretty different, both in circumstances of learning it and its use cases that simply learning it later doesn't sound right, unless there is another convenient "oh, we need to freeze this guy" moment later on, which imo is kind of a cop out.

 

[KingAgamemnon]

I mean, I personally think the fact that it was a move that the MC had to use on someone else is something they wouldn't come across for a long while, and we were still in the middle of the evolution trance, so this would be something we wouldn't even think about being able to do for a while. Since Ella makes a point when talking to Jake that being conscious and aware during your evolution teaches you things that you otherwise wouldn't be able to learn.

Granted, whether Laurie is important to the story or not isn't super important to me, considering I'm just trying to acquire all of the females, but this freeze ability seems pretty different, both in circumstances of learning it and its use cases that simply learning it later doesn't sound right, unless there is another convenient "oh, we need to freeze this guy" moment later on, which imo is kind of a cop out.

Mmm, I'm not sure I explained myself well here. Let me put it a different way. Before, with the bone tail and the poison tentacles, it wasn't a whole new power, it was putting pieces together of powers he already had and was aware of. With this, he 1) Never saw Ella use the whole "immunity through freezing the transformation" ability, so he would need to learn it through either Nyx or the teleport lady (forgot her name), 2) Would somehow need to make the jump to realize that he can use it on people other than himself, and 3) Would be in a situation where he values learning a whole brand new skill, which he would have no idea as to whether or not it is even possible for him to do, as opposed to reinforcing the abilities he currently possesses, something he has stated is his goal as learning a bunch of weaker techniques isn't as important to him as mastering the few techniques he does know. All put together, I think it would be really really out of place for him to suddenly figure this out on his own.

 

[Dipasimaan]

Man, it's been like 15 hours. Fifteen. Let it go, all he said was that characters that are killable tend to get the amount of content they receive significantly reduced, which is objectively undeniably true as no developer wants to waste hours on end for something most players might never see. He never said NO content, he said LESS.

At no point did he state that lore was more important than saving a character, which would be a stupid thing to say when the game is a damn visual novel that encourages multiple playthroughs. Nor did he say that there 100% wouldn't be any payoff to saving a character, as he literally just mentioned several instances where the developer either changed something (the 100 power check) or had something pay off way, way later (Tiffany finally giving you your power after so much time waiting). He knows the future of development and story is unpredictable just as much as you do.

You're fighting demons of your own conjuring, jumping at shadows and strawmen of your own imagining based on an accidental misreading and plain ignorance. Let it go. Or at least try and fight in the off-topic before a mod comes and straight up fucks all of us, nukes most of the fucking page and drops the threat of a thread ban. They can and will do that if the wrong one comes along. Again. Seriously.

 

[DrakoGhoul]

I mean, I personally think the fact that it was a move that the MC had to use on someone else is something they wouldn't come across for a long while, and we were still in the middle of the evolution trance, so this would be something we wouldn't even think about being able to do for a while. Since Ella makes a point when talking to Jake that being conscious and aware during your evolution teaches you things that you otherwise wouldn't be able to learn.

Granted, whether Laurie is important to the story or not isn't super important to me, considering I'm just trying to acquire all of the females, but this freeze ability seems pretty different, both in circumstances of learning it and its use cases that simply learning it later doesn't sound right, unless there is another convenient "oh, we need to freeze this guy" moment later on, which imo is kind of a cop out.

Mmm, I'm not sure I explained myself well here. Let me put it a different way. Before, with the bone tail and the poison tentacles, it wasn't a whole new power, it was putting pieces together of powers he already had and was aware of. With this, he 1) Never saw Ella use the whole "immunity through freezing the transformation" ability, so he would need to learn it through either Nyx or the teleport lady (forgot her name), 2) Would somehow need to make the jump to realize that he can use it on people other than himself, and 3) Would be in a situation where he values learning a whole brand new skill, which he would have no idea as to whether or not it is even possible for him to do, as opposed to reinforcing the abilities he currently possesses, something he has stated is his goal as learning a bunch of weaker techniques isn't as important to him as mastering the few techniques he does know. All put together, I think it would be really really out of place for him to suddenly figure this out on his own.

Pretty sure he doesn't have to use it for it to be passed down knowledge. What happened with Jake doesn't compare to what happened with MC. For one, MC didn't pass out during the evolution and thus has all of the info still up there. Him not having the proper amount of skill or even attempting to use it during the trance then and there doesn't mean it's lost forever. It's kept there like other abilities.

So no, I don't think Laurie is important for even that skill. He would stumble across it eventually. Especially if he wants to beat Evander since making himself stay in a frozen state during attacks would counter that destruction ability.

 

[rainwake]

No, you made many errors. I really didn't want to deconstruct everything but I hope these examples will suffice.

1) The Deryl 100 power check is for Laurie, if you don't Hesitate you automatically win the fight without checks. Against Rebis Deryl you only need 1 derylwin point that you can get by destroying the sword.
2) You don't need Tiffany's money because you gain enough to buy anything important as of the latest update, from perfect relationship score with Amber/Emily to all the new items from Shopkeep, as long as you give a detailed description of the ceremony infiltration. I explained this on a post a few pages back. You probably have enough money to buy a dildo too although I don't bother with that content.
3) If you have less than 28 skill agaisnt the Asura you just miss 1 skill point and 1 relationship point, you gain the +10 power and money no matter what as long as you agree to fight it.
4) You can reach 100 power without the horn. Max power attainable before evolution is 115. The horn accounts for 10 of it.
5) There are only 2 relationship checks in the game. Jake which determines if he will force you to shoot yourself during prison, and Nico for the sex scene. Every other interaction is based on boolean variables. WW himself has said in the past that relationship points are not very important and you can successfully complete all college romances by being a complete asshole to them if you know what you are doing.

Aside from that, you are debating with a strawman, saying that I'm speculating when I state facts or arguing that I support killing the cast, while completely disregarding the only actual point I've tried to make, which is speculation about the eye based on an educated guess after taking a look at the script.

Just drop it.

I don't typically debate with people who blatantly refuse to read what I've written and then try to poke holes at an argument when I've already answered it. None of my points are referring to what you need to beat the fight. I'm referring to requirements for an optimal fight outcome. I am literally repeating what I've said before because no one can read. I'm not going to spend more time pointing out everything you're speculating

1. That's false. If the 100 power check is for Laurie, then I should have gotten it first try on my Corruption playthrough. It's not until I have 28 Skill where you get the Laurie check. 100 power is for Deryl's Hesistate check because on my 1st playthrough I had 99 power and never got the Hesitate option. I have that evidence because I did it 2 days ago. In fact, it's clearly stated on the Walkthrough. We're not debating what you need to do to beat the fight but what it takes to get an optimal fight. The Hesitate option gives you +3 Deryl points. It's for Deryl, NOT Laurie. I already said that, so I'm not wrong

2. I already mentioned what Tiffany money is about. It's necessary if you want maximum Emily and Amber affection. If you say that's false, then you are a liar. I said that you also need it if you want to buy Monster Pincer and Spine

3. Either way that's still a loss and it proves that corruption isn't the only thing that snowballs. My point is that stats snowball because you need enough stats to pass the stat check to get more stats. Missing stat points means that you might miss out on future stat checks, which was my whole point. I'm not going to debate what snowballing means.

4. It depends on what path. You don't even bother to mention the path. If you read what I said, you'd know I clearly said you can get 100 power without horn on the corruption path. BUT you will still be short 3 Skill from being at 28 Skill. I specifically mentioned that you need Horn and Red Light monster to reach 100+ power on Purity Path. How was I wrong?

5. That's fine, but I never talked about Jake or the prison. If relationship points are not that important, then how come there's a stat check on one of Brianna's H-scenes where you need 3 or more Brianna affection? If you do the Corruption route, and you kill the cops in the mall, you'll get -2 Brianna on the 2nd TV interview. Overall the corruption path seems to also add another -1 Brianna deficit compared to the Purity path. So when you get to her promotion, you'll have 2 Brianna points, which makes you 1 short of getting her H-scene. These are the facts. I had to redo my corruption path to account for that.

"only actual point I've tried to make, which is speculation about the eye based on an educated guess after taking a look at the script."

I'm glad we agree, because that's the point I was making. You are SPECULATING. It's not fact. We don't know if that's significant or not. We don't know what it really means or if that monster lore is really worth a damn. My whole point was that we do know that optimal fights/events have historically yielded better rewards. If you're going to tell me that being rewarded with more stuff is worse than speculative lore, then I disagree
e.g. Valravn: optimal fight earns his respect and he'll actually talk to you
e.g. Deryl: optimal fight yields +3 Deryl points and saves Laurie
e.g. Nyx Heist: optimal heist yields +10 power

 

[rainwake]

Well, when you really put out what Laurie has and how important she could be to the plot, it amounts to miniscule gain.

- Laurie has a crystal infection power, which isn't really all that important after the Battle of Diamonds. Especially when we're starting to fight Level 3/Class B stuff.

- She's Level 2, which also means she's not all that important in HERO.

- Outside of low level monsters, she's pretty useless.

- Her monster parent likely is some random B Class or lower monster so it likely plays no part in the later game.

- She isn't exactly strong while also being mentally weak. Sure, her infection will handle most things near her Level, but her progression is slow and she's not all that reliable if it fails to work. As seen when she fought Deryl's Chimera.

- We already had sex with her once so there's no sex scene obligation needed for her.

When you really look at her kit and her position in HERO, it's absolutely safe to say she'll be irrelevant going forward. She's not like Alice, Michael, Deryl and MC. They all have unique things that uplifts them. If Laurie was a much better fighter or had something that heavily tied into the plot, then maybe I could see her being important in the future. She, unfortunately, doesn't have anything which is why she was killed off by Jared.

That's your opinion and you're speculating that she's useless, that's not fact because you are not the developer. weezal is correct, we'll have to wait and see. But if you have to pick between monster lore OR saving Laurie, I'd rather pick an optimal Deryl fight and saving Laurie.

 

[rainwake]

That +1 skill is such a bullshit decision to be honest. It really is a Big BIG decision.

Exactly, that's why these decisions matter and they wind up making a big difference once the game stat checks you

 

[rainwake]

Man, it's been like 15 hours. Fifteen. Let it go, all he said was that characters that are killable tend to get the amount of content they receive significantly reduced, which is objectively undeniably true as no developer wants to waste hours on end for something most players might never see. He never said NO content, he said LESS.

At no point did he state that lore was more important than saving a character, which would be a stupid thing to say when the game is a damn visual novel that encourages multiple playthroughs. Nor did he say that there 100% wouldn't be any payoff to saving a character, as he literally just mentioned several instances where the developer either changed something (the 100 power check) or had something pay off way, way later (Tiffany finally giving you your power after so much time waiting). He knows the future of development and story is unpredictable just as much as you do.

You're fighting demons of your own conjuring, jumping at shadows and strawmen of your own imagining based on an accidental misreading and plain ignorance. Let it go. Or at least try and fight in the off-topic before a mod comes and straight up fucks all of us, nukes most of the fucking page and drops the threat of a thread ban. They can and will do that if the wrong one comes along. Again. Seriously.

Yeah, you clearly don't read. How about you learn to read before telling people what to do?

He did speculate and he did admit to it. End of story. He is speculating that picking Eye and monster lore is more important than saving Laurie. That's it. You can agree with it if you want. I don't care

 

[DrakoGhoul]

That's your opinion and you're speculating that she's useless, but that's completely unknown. weezal is correct, we'll have to wait and see. But if you have to pick between monster lore OR saving Laurie, I'd rather pick an optimal Deryl fight and saving Laurie.

I said what I said. If I had to choose, it would be Aglaecwif. I could care less about Laurie in comparison. You do you.

 

[rainwake]

I mean, isn't the fact that the MC effectively learned a new skill through her important? Perhaps if we didn't save Laurie, we would never have been able to learn this "freeze" skill, which itself might have implications in the future.

It's not whether we learn her crystal ability that makes Laurie important. It's that she may have a role to play in a big fight and having her exist can perhaps buy us time to recover or to land an important attack. Her ability is CC, which is handy to have.
Think about it like Brianna's role in the Valravn. She isn't winning the fight for us, but she did buy us time in a crucial moment to turn the fight around. That's all speculation of course.
But I think it's reasonable to expect some kind of reward from her for saving her.

 

[jak1165]

How much skill do you need to get honorable victory vs Valrawn?