- Jul 6, 2017
- 558
- 443
Bella shes going to bend all the Bella fans over and raw dog their assWho's the futa/Trans though ?
- Thread starter 7767
- Start date
Disclaimer: I'm not a Dev and know little about game development, but have been a Patreon supporter since January of this year.
I just want to get on the soapbox for a second. I love this game, I love the renders, the story telling, everything. My biggest concern is how long it is going to take to develop, especially since Ocean is making 2 games at once. It's been 7 months between Chapter 3 and 3.5 while I loved 3.5, I have to admit I was a bit sad at the lack of real Lewd scenes. Especially since it was an entire year between Chapter 2 and 3.
The last Patreon goal was to get a 3090, I believe he has now has one for each game. Back then he emphasized this would speed up development time and render time, and while I am sure that it has, I fear that scope creep is going to be a problem. For example, going back and re-doing the renders from Chapter 1. The new ones look great, but what's going to happen in 3 years when all of a sudden the current renders look dated? Are we going to have this rehashing of old chapters and perfectionism that slows down Development time?
I want to ask of Ocean - what is the biggest time sink for development? For example, the animations are stunning. Beautiful. But if cutting down on the number of animations would speed up Development time by even 20% it could save a ton of time in the long run. I am torn about this - on one hand we have the most stunning animations I have ever seen in a VN. On the other, I would much rather have more story, more fleshed out relationships (we really only have a lot of time with the 2 main LI's). There are so many girls in the game and it is going to take literally years to have fleshed out stories with all of them. Frankly, it is going to take a decade to finish this game at the current rate. While I don't mind supporting Ocean for 2-3 years, I can't stretch it beyond that.
A good part of project management is setting a goal and sticking to timeframes, even if newer, shinier games or technology come along. From his Patreon posts he wants to get one of the Nvidia Quadro professional cards. Of course I understand why, but my fear is that instead of cutting down on Dev time, it's going to cause more scope creep and renders/animations that are more complex and ultimately don't save time due to the increased complexities.
Maybe the answer is to get a partner to help out..I don't know. Ocean is a one man army and it's truly commendable. Time vs. quality is always going to be a challenge but I just worry the Patron support will start slowing down with the releases being so far apart.
I just want to get on the soapbox for a second. I love this game, I love the renders, the story telling, everything. My biggest concern is how long it is going to take to develop, especially since Ocean is making 2 games at once. It's been 7 months between Chapter 3 and 3.5 while I loved 3.5, I have to admit I was a bit sad at the lack of real Lewd scenes. Especially since it was an entire year between Chapter 2 and 3.
The last Patreon goal was to get a 3090, I believe he has now has one for each game. Back then he emphasized this would speed up development time and render time, and while I am sure that it has, I fear that scope creep is going to be a problem. For example, going back and re-doing the renders from Chapter 1. The new ones look great, but what's going to happen in 3 years when all of a sudden the current renders look dated? Are we going to have this rehashing of old chapters and perfectionism that slows down Development time?
I want to ask of Ocean - what is the biggest time sink for development? For example, the animations are stunning. Beautiful. But if cutting down on the number of animations would speed up Development time by even 20% it could save a ton of time in the long run. I am torn about this - on one hand we have the most stunning animations I have ever seen in a VN. On the other, I would much rather have more story, more fleshed out relationships (we really only have a lot of time with the 2 main LI's). There are so many girls in the game and it is going to take literally years to have fleshed out stories with all of them. Frankly, it is going to take a decade to finish this game at the current rate. While I don't mind supporting Ocean for 2-3 years, I can't stretch it beyond that.
A good part of project management is setting a goal and sticking to timeframes, even if newer, shinier games or technology come along. From his Patreon posts he wants to get one of the Nvidia Quadro professional cards. Of course I understand why, but my fear is that instead of cutting down on Dev time, it's going to cause more scope creep and renders/animations that are more complex and ultimately don't save time due to the increased complexities.
Maybe the answer is to get a partner to help out..I don't know. Ocean is a one man army and it's truly commendable. Time vs. quality is always going to be a challenge but I just worry the Patron support will start slowing down with the releases being so far apart.
- May 5, 2018
- 238
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- Apr 24, 2020
- 6,699
- 10,935
Though a "marital arts studio" would be interesting as well. I remember when I was younger, there was a store selling sex toys, porn, lingerie and such that referred to themselves as a "marital arts store." This was a time when places often stressed that what they sold was for helping married couples and nothing sordid for unmarried people to keep the modern Puritans at bay.
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- Jul 1, 2019
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I agree but would also add that it's not like he antisocial by force but chooses to be so. Almost like a Joker and Deadpool forth wall perspective watching how much energy people use being social when it's not necessary. He to me understands how people think (basketball game) but has no desire to be drawn into useless social activities and interactions just to fit in. It's kinda a scientist studying ants knowing alot about their behaviour and what triggers certain responses. In his case he is like a "scientist ant" watching the other ants knowing they are locked into this invisible prison of their colony. They can't leave the trail or they'll be lost but unlike the rest his tether is not as strong to the colony and he can alter the trail.
- May 4, 2020
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Ohhhh that's interesting how this model isn't used by a lot of people, so far I've only seen her being used in two decent games not including summer's gone.
Yes I definitely thought it was a German thing, I too assumed that if dialogue was in german would be a lot more free flowing but when compiled and translated for the universal English it would have problems.I think that is a cultural/language thing. For me, as a fellow german, are the most conversations perfectly to understand. In my opinion - just my - it has something to do how the german language is structured. I asume heavyly that the story is written in german and translated after into englisch. And this could be the problem.
In German, there are so many ways to write and embellish a text and describe things that are simply not possible in English. (To be clear, that is no englisch bashing, and i have no intention to insult someone in any way)
The best example seems to be the good old "the". In English one word for everything, in German we have three words for it:
der relative pronoun masculine the die relative pronoun feminine the das relative pronoun objective the
That's the way it is in the whole german language. It should be clear that extremely convoluted texts may then be easier for a German speaker to understand, or that he simply thinks nothing of it because our texts are always structured in this way - while a native English speaker will certainly pull his hair out when reading the translations.
And i'm sure that for a native speaker my post is a perfect example of what I just wanted to explain.
But it isn't too bad, it's just jarring sometimes.
The "protagonist speaks that way because it is intentional" seem like a flimsy excuse, there's no way inefficient speech patterns are intentional. Humans are naturally good at finding shortcuts, that applies even to spoken language so logically it wouldn't make sense. The protagonist isn't yoda lmao
Yes that is what I think it is as well.
Ocean makes use of amazing lighting comparable to City of Broken Dreamers, while CoBD nails the neon lights look of its cyberpunk setting summer's gone simply rocks at natural lighting - at least sometimes, the school feel like it doesn't share the same light as the lighting that makes the characters look like they have an Instagram filter. - but hey, we've all seen this school building asset too many times, no use trying to make it pretty lmao
- Nov 22, 2020
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Damn! That was really nice! I'm not sure if I can choose just one girl: I really like Nami, and she is with MC for so long. Mila is gorgeous and sweet, and we have Bella, damn! They are my favorite ones, even I played it "chasing" Bella's path, every time Nami or Mila is on the screen... Argh! Too difficult to chose one, hahaha! Let's see what next updates will show
- Feb 12, 2019
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I completely agree. I'll just copy/paste my post from today on WIAB's thread, as it applies to both games:
I've recently played WIAB for the first time. It clearly isn't of the same caliber as Summer's Gone before the rework, and even the writing is less catchy than SG. But I liked it nonetheless, Leia, Katie and Dana are great girlfriend material and I'd be very happy to see more of them.
The problem is that even SG, the game that is updated the most frequently and could be called the "main game" at this point, will never get finished at this rate. 2.5 chapters released in the 2.25 years since the release of the first chapter of SG. And no update to WIAB for more than a year (and chapter 7 a very long way off). Target: 30 chapters each. So we are currently set for the completion of SG in 2046. The pace of delivery is way too slow for its ambitious scope. 1 full chapter every 3 months would already take almost 7 more years to finish the game, which is extremely long (too long) for a videogame development, and currently we are on a quarter of that pace, so well below that. And I'm not even going to do any calculation for WIAB.
And how many quality upgrades from technology (like Daz) will there be in 7 years prompting the rework of the previous chapters? A serious amount. There is a reason videogame projects are 3-5 years long at the most: they get outdated while in development (among other concerns).
I would expect measures to be taken to make it a more realistic project but so far I have the impression the problem is not seriously acknowledged. Some things could be done though. Either to increase the delivery output, or to lower the targeted scope. Pack SG/WIAB in 20 chapters instead of 30 and the finish line gets a lot closer. Hire another artist immediately and you can practically double the pace. But I wouldn't hold my breath about that, I've seen other artists in the same situation have impossible expectations of other artists that they should be able to have the exact same style as they have, so they never hire anyone. Also I believe Ocean plans on waiting until the switch to Blender after the first season (aka episode 10), so that is still in 6.5 years at the current pace, as if this is not an urgent thing to do.
Even with the optimistic outcome of those two measures, SG (the more frequently updated game) would be finished for Christmas 2029 if we take into account the current speed of development. So they're not enough.
I do think Ocean should put WIAB on hold. We're going through a 6-chapter rework, and apparently we are only going to see the first chapter rework after more than a year of waiting. There is just too much to catch up on before we see new content, and while WIAB is a very enjoyable game (and I would especially miss Leia), I find SG is superior. And whatever you think, everybody loses if no game gets completed. So put it on hold and use the second machine to produce animations (or other renders in parallel) for SG, speeding up the development some more.
Then maybe the quality target could be lowered a little. Maybe we can decrease a bit the amount and/or length of the animations as they take a long time to produce. But most importantly, being a perfectionist is the death of any such project. And for crying out loud, stop the reworks of earlier chapters until you have completed the game else in a couple of years there will be more things that will need a rework, and it slows everything down to a halt.
So some things that could be done to give us more frequent updates and finish SG in a reasonable amount of time, then pick up WIAB with a much better update pace. Releasing frequent updates will also certainly mean a greater interest from the audience and a much larger number of paying supporters, which on top of being worth it for Ocean would allow him to upgrade his hardware further and potentially hiring more help. It is the only viable way forward I can see, but it needs acknowledgement, and actions. If we continue contently like this, those games will become a meme of never getting completed and will eventually die out well before their planned end. And that would be a shame because they have unrivaled potential.
PS: I've been holding back this post for weeks as I did not want to risk offending Ocean. He is a great artist and I respect his work. But I had to say what's on my mind out of concern for the future of his games, I believe we're headed steadily to the wall and it urgently needs a course correction.
- Jul 1, 2019
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The truth is seldom a sweet pill to swallow. I myself worry about him getting stuck in a continuous cycle of reworking previous versions. I agree finishing the vn and then doing a rework of the final version if he wants (if that's what you meant) makes more sense. Hope he gets to read your comment and see the merits in it. He is definitely a talented person and arguably may have the best/one of the best VN's ever on his hands but it has to be finished first.I completely agree. I'll just copy/paste my post from today on WIAB's thread, as it applies to both games:
I've recently played WIAB for the first time. It clearly isn't of the same caliber as Summer's Gone before the rework, and even the writing is less catchy than SG. But I liked it nonetheless, Leia, Katie and Dana are great girlfriend material and I'd be very happy to see more of them.
The problem is that even SG, the game that is updated the most frequently and could be called the "main game" at this point, will never get finished at this rate. 2.5 chapters released in the 2.25 years since the release of the first chapter of SG. And no update to WIAB for more than a year (and chapter 7 a very long way off). Target: 30 chapters each. So we are currently set for the completion of SG in 2046. The pace of delivery is way too slow for its ambitious scope. 1 full chapter every 3 months would already take almost 7 more years to finish the game, which is extremely long (too long) for a videogame development, and currently we are on a quarter of that pace, so well below that. And I'm not even going to do any calculation for WIAB.
And how many quality upgrades from technology (like Daz) will there be in 7 years prompting the rework of the previous chapters? A serious amount. There is a reason videogame projects are 3-5 years long at the most: they get outdated while in development (among other concerns).
I would expect measures to be taken to make it a more realistic project but so far I have the impression the problem is not seriously acknowledged. Some things could be done though. Either to increase the delivery output, or to lower the targeted scope. Pack SG/WIAB in 20 chapters instead of 30 and the finish line gets a lot closer. Hire another artist immediately and you can practically double the pace. But I wouldn't hold my breath about that, I've seen other artists in the same situation have impossible expectations of other artists that they should be able to have the exact same style as they have, so they never hire anyone. Also I believe Ocean plans on waiting until the switch to Blender after the first season (aka episode 10), so that is still in 6.5 years at the current pace, as if this is not an urgent thing to do.
Even with the optimistic outcome of those two measures, SG (the more frequently updated game) would be finished for Christmas 2029 if we take into account the current speed of development. So they're not enough.
I do think Ocean should put WIAB on hold. We're going through a 6-chapter rework, and apparently we are only going to see the first chapter rework after more than a year of waiting. There is just too much to catch up on before we see new content, and while WIAB is a very enjoyable game (and I would especially miss Leia), I find SG is superior. And whatever you think, everybody loses if no game gets completed. So put it on hold and use the second machine to produce animations (or other renders in parallel) for SG, speeding up the development some more.
Then maybe the quality target could be lowered a little. Maybe we can decrease a bit the amount and/or length of the animations as they take a long time to produce. But most importantly, being a perfectionist is the death of any such project. And for crying out loud, stop the reworks of earlier chapters until you have completed the game else in a couple of years there will be more things that will need a rework, and it slows everything down to a halt.
So some things that could be done to give us more frequent updates and finish SG in a reasonable amount of time, then pick up WIAB with a much better update pace. Releasing frequent updates will also certainly mean a greater interest from the audience and a much larger number of paying supporters, which on top of being worth it for Ocean would allow him to upgrade his hardware further and potentially hiring more help. It is the only viable way forward I can see, but it needs acknowledgement, and actions. If we continue contently like this, those games will become a meme of never getting completed and will eventually die out well before their planned end. And that would be a shame because they have unrivaled potential.
PS: I've been holding back this post for weeks as I did not want to risk offending Ocean. He is a great artist and I respect his work. But I had to say what's on my mind out of concern for the future of his games, I believe we're headed steadily to the wall and it urgently needs a course correction.
- May 31, 2019
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I couldn't resist lol, but yeah, Ayua definitely didn't say that for me. I even loaded up a save and went through that bit again.I can't really blame him for missing the scene, because if I remember correctly, it only shows up if you don't kiss Bella. And let's be honest, not kissing Bella is hard. Really hard.
- Mar 9, 2020
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Its me or Ayua´s boobs got bigger ?
The problem with putting WiAB on hold is that rendering WiAB helps Ocean not to get burnt out as in the case of SG Ch3, he's stated several times that he had been pretty fucked up after completing that chapter. And working on both games simultaneously is one of the countermeasures for him not to end up like this again. So I don't think this will doI completely agree. I'll just copy/paste my post from today on WIAB's thread, as it applies to both games:
I've recently played WIAB for the first time. It clearly isn't of the same caliber as Summer's Gone before the rework, and even the writing is less catchy than SG. But I liked it nonetheless, Leia, Katie and Dana are great girlfriend material and I'd be very happy to see more of them.
The problem is that even SG, the game that is updated the most frequently and could be called the "main game" at this point, will never get finished at this rate. 2.5 chapters released in the 2.25 years since the release of the first chapter of SG. And no update to WIAB for more than a year (and chapter 7 a very long way off). Target: 30 chapters each. So we are currently set for the completion of SG in 2046. The pace of delivery is way too slow for its ambitious scope. 1 full chapter every 3 months would already take almost 7 more years to finish the game, which is extremely long (too long) for a videogame development, and currently we are on a quarter of that pace, so well below that. And I'm not even going to do any calculation for WIAB.
And how many quality upgrades from technology (like Daz) will there be in 7 years prompting the rework of the previous chapters? A serious amount. There is a reason videogame projects are 3-5 years long at the most: they get outdated while in development (among other concerns).
I would expect measures to be taken to make it a more realistic project but so far I have the impression the problem is not seriously acknowledged. Some things could be done though. Either to increase the delivery output, or to lower the targeted scope. Pack SG/WIAB in 20 chapters instead of 30 and the finish line gets a lot closer. Hire another artist immediately and you can practically double the pace. But I wouldn't hold my breath about that, I've seen other artists in the same situation have impossible expectations of other artists that they should be able to have the exact same style as they have, so they never hire anyone. Also I believe Ocean plans on waiting until the switch to Blender after the first season (aka episode 10), so that is still in 6.5 years at the current pace, as if this is not an urgent thing to do.
Even with the optimistic outcome of those two measures, SG (the more frequently updated game) would be finished for Christmas 2029 if we take into account the current speed of development. So they're not enough.
I do think Ocean should put WIAB on hold. We're going through a 6-chapter rework, and apparently we are only going to see the first chapter rework after more than a year of waiting. There is just too much to catch up on before we see new content, and while WIAB is a very enjoyable game (and I would especially miss Leia), I find SG is superior. And whatever you think, everybody loses if no game gets completed. So put it on hold and use the second machine to produce animations (or other renders in parallel) for SG, speeding up the development some more.
Then maybe the quality target could be lowered a little. Maybe we can decrease a bit the amount and/or length of the animations as they take a long time to produce. But most importantly, being a perfectionist is the death of any such project. And for crying out loud, stop the reworks of earlier chapters until you have completed the game else in a couple of years there will be more things that will need a rework, and it slows everything down to a halt.
So some things that could be done to give us more frequent updates and finish SG in a reasonable amount of time, then pick up WIAB with a much better update pace. Releasing frequent updates will also certainly mean a greater interest from the audience and a much larger number of paying supporters, which on top of being worth it for Ocean would allow him to upgrade his hardware further and potentially hiring more help. It is the only viable way forward I can see, but it needs acknowledgement, and actions. If we continue contently like this, those games will become a meme of never getting completed and will eventually die out well before their planned end. And that would be a shame because they have unrivaled potential.
PS: I've been holding back this post for weeks as I did not want to risk offending Ocean. He is a great artist and I respect his work. But I had to say what's on my mind out of concern for the future of his games, I believe we're headed steadily to the wall and it urgently needs a course correction.
As for the reworking, while I don't support it either (though Chapter 1 really does need a visual rework, especially the first day at the college; however I don't really mind it the way it is and was) given current situation, I kinda get it if Ocean aims for Steam release with Chapter 5 or 4.5 I think (please correct me if I'm wrong).
If he let the first chapter in its original form, I can imagine it might not look very well to potential customers which would be new to the game. You know, based on the captivating main menu and visually spectacular intro, the customer who bought the game expects top quality he has never seen in games like this before, and then MC wakes up and suddenly boom!
Render downgrade by many levels.
Ayua suffers a change every update, not that I mind, she has become way hotter lately.
It's seem the walkthrough has been dropped, no more update right?
- Jul 22, 2017
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This is why I wish more devs were like DPC or Philly, in that they commit to a single game and rarely miss deadlines for updates. And the progress in BaDIK and CoBD is also more natural, i.e, the content is spread out among the girls, and one girl doesn't hog the limelight. And you have more control over the actions of the MC in these games.I completely agree. I'll just copy/paste my post from today on WIAB's thread, as it applies to both games:
I've recently played WIAB for the first time. It clearly isn't of the same caliber as Summer's Gone before the rework, and even the writing is less catchy than SG. But I liked it nonetheless, Leia, Katie and Dana are great girlfriend material and I'd be very happy to see more of them.
The problem is that even SG, the game that is updated the most frequently and could be called the "main game" at this point, will never get finished at this rate. 2.5 chapters released in the 2.25 years since the release of the first chapter of SG. And no update to WIAB for more than a year (and chapter 7 a very long way off). Target: 30 chapters each. So we are currently set for the completion of SG in 2046. The pace of delivery is way too slow for its ambitious scope. 1 full chapter every 3 months would already take almost 7 more years to finish the game, which is extremely long (too long) for a videogame development, and currently we are on a quarter of that pace, so well below that. And I'm not even going to do any calculation for WIAB.
And how many quality upgrades from technology (like Daz) will there be in 7 years prompting the rework of the previous chapters? A serious amount. There is a reason videogame projects are 3-5 years long at the most: they get outdated while in development (among other concerns).
I would expect measures to be taken to make it a more realistic project but so far I have the impression the problem is not seriously acknowledged. Some things could be done though. Either to increase the delivery output, or to lower the targeted scope. Pack SG/WIAB in 20 chapters instead of 30 and the finish line gets a lot closer. Hire another artist immediately and you can practically double the pace. But I wouldn't hold my breath about that, I've seen other artists in the same situation have impossible expectations of other artists that they should be able to have the exact same style as they have, so they never hire anyone. Also I believe Ocean plans on waiting until the switch to Blender after the first season (aka episode 10), so that is still in 6.5 years at the current pace, as if this is not an urgent thing to do.
Even with the optimistic outcome of those two measures, SG (the more frequently updated game) would be finished for Christmas 2029 if we take into account the current speed of development. So they're not enough.
I do think Ocean should put WIAB on hold. We're going through a 6-chapter rework, and apparently we are only going to see the first chapter rework after more than a year of waiting. There is just too much to catch up on before we see new content, and while WIAB is a very enjoyable game (and I would especially miss Leia), I find SG is superior. And whatever you think, everybody loses if no game gets completed. So put it on hold and use the second machine to produce animations (or other renders in parallel) for SG, speeding up the development some more.
Then maybe the quality target could be lowered a little. Maybe we can decrease a bit the amount and/or length of the animations as they take a long time to produce. But most importantly, being a perfectionist is the death of any such project. And for crying out loud, stop the reworks of earlier chapters until you have completed the game else in a couple of years there will be more things that will need a rework, and it slows everything down to a halt.
So some things that could be done to give us more frequent updates and finish SG in a reasonable amount of time, then pick up WIAB with a much better update pace. Releasing frequent updates will also certainly mean a greater interest from the audience and a much larger number of paying supporters, which on top of being worth it for Ocean would allow him to upgrade his hardware further and potentially hiring more help. It is the only viable way forward I can see, but it needs acknowledgement, and actions. If we continue contently like this, those games will become a meme of never getting completed and will eventually die out well before their planned end. And that would be a shame because they have unrivaled potential.
PS: I've been holding back this post for weeks as I did not want to risk offending Ocean. He is a great artist and I respect his work. But I had to say what's on my mind out of concern for the future of his games, I believe we're headed steadily to the wall and it urgently needs a course correction.
The biggest problem I find with SG as of now is that after pursuing Bella none of the girls other than Nami and Sasha are remotely interesting for me. This makes it really hard for me to play through the game if Bella isn't involved in the update. And I wish that I as a player get more choices on how the MC behaves, other than choices that just influence if you move forward with a girl or not. For example in the latest update, the MC seems to be okay with getting bullied by the 2 girls because he gets to score "relationship points"? I mean in which country is that okay? Atleast try to resist them and not allow people to walk over you like that. Going forward in the game I wish the MC behaves more appropriately, or at the very least the player gets a chance to try and avoid a situation like this.
And I also agree with your fact that if Ocean continues to focus on 2 games, I'd probably have to leave the save files for the game for my kids to continue. Very few devs who start 2 or more games are able to constantly update them. The dev for Radiant has 2 games, and we rarely see 1 update a year for either of them. The dev for My Real desire had 2 games, now he just focuses on MRD. This is just from the top of my mind, there's probably many more. Now only Ocean knows if he's really capable of juggling 2 equally good and popular games at a time, but SG for me is too good to just sit around and waiting for a year to get updates, which I think is what wil happen if the other game also gets worked on. Maybe the dev can hire more people, or put the game on Steam or similar sites for more exposure, so that he can hire others who can help him with his projects.
- Jul 22, 2017
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Ayua in CH3 was hot, I don't get what was wrong with that model. I'm playing on android and in the new update it looks like someone applied some shitty instagram filter over her. Don't know if it's something with my phone or the model changed.
- Apr 16, 2020
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Hey, can anybody tell me why after I extract it, it doesn´t want to start? Only music plays in the background but no window is displayed. Can anybody help?
- Apr 25, 2020
- 4,487
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Yes Ayua lost a bet with Sacha and have to dye her hair white (half from the tip). But look at the post before you, it's not the only change
- May 4, 2020
- 405
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It has something to do with the lighting in the contours of her face and her hair I think
Speaking of lighting, I know I've said this a whole lot but this game seriously has some amazing lighting, Ocean seriously is good with the lighting.
I mean people take the lighting for granted in this, I personally feel like it's what elevates and sets the tone of the game.
Take a shot everytime I mention lighting in this thread.