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TheDevian

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Now, my turn to ask a question :)
Got this character with textures all right, used the standard method (default genitals, copy torso, change UV) used with tons of other characters, and it works. Even with this character, when doing a texture shaded view is perfect - but when doing iray, it comes like this
View attachment 4861555
Sinec in texture view is perfect, I guess it is something to do with the settings that are then used when rendering.
Anybody has any idea what it could be ?
Thanks
You probably need to run the shell fix, or something.
If you have more than one shell, make sure to turn it off on the conflicting parts. For example, turn off the headlights shell on the genitals, and vice versa.
 
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ouch2020

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You probably need to run the shell fix, or something.
If you have more than one shell, make sure to turn it off on the conflicting parts. For example, turn off the headlights shell on the genitals, and vice versa.
Thanks. Nope, I had already tried, but I tried again, just to be sure I had not done it in the wrong order, and still no go. Even leaving only breastacular as the only thing with a shell and running the shell fix on breastacular, the problem stays. Even checked manually, the breastacular shell is only on breastacular and the breast, not on the torso or the gens.
The character has a geograft for the tail (it's Doric from Dumitas). The tail does not have a shell visible, but the shell for breastacular sees a surface there with "torso" in the name from the tail, and the genitals also are part of the torso.
Is it possible to have a shell that is not listed in the scene tab, but is still visible, and if yes, how can I make it possible to select it and change its settings ?
My doubt is that the tail geograft may have a shell of its own, although I see not sign of it, and that it may be the element that ends up doing creating the problem.
 
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TheDevian

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Thanks. Nope, I had already tried, but I tried again, just to be sure I had not done it in the wrong order, and still no go. Even leaving only breastacular as the only thing with a shell and running the shell fix on breastacular, the problem stays. Even checked manually, the breastacular shell is only on breastacular and the breast, not on the torso or the gens.
The character has a geograft for the tail (it's Doric from Dumitas). The tail does not have a shell visible, but the shell for breastacular sees a surface there with "torso" in the name from the tail, and the genitals also are part of the torso.
Is it possible to have a shell that is not listed in the scene tab, but is still visible, and if yes, how can I make it possible to select it and change its settings ?
My doubt is that the tail geograft may have a shell of its own, although I see not sign of it, and that it may be the element that ends up doing creating the problem.
Just to make sure, when I say 'turn it off', I am talking about this.
1747857958036.png

Also, make sure that you are not in any of the editor modes for Daz, like make sure you are not using the Geometry Editor, or the Mesh Grabber tools, things like that.
 

ouch2020

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Just to make sure, when I say 'turn it off', I am talking about this.
View attachment 4861961

Also, make sure that you are not in any of the editor modes for Daz, like make sure you are not using the Geometry Editor, or the Mesh Grabber tools, things like that.
Thanks. Yep, that's the one I checked manually, and no, I saw the problem while having the "universal" tool, I use it all the time without problems, and I even just tried after selecting the "scene navigator", same problem - though it was a good suggestion, I did notice in the past that having mesh grabber, surface editor or similar active could affect the visualisation.
Here you have again the same detail, as shown in iray rendering, and with screen capture with "texture shaded" mode on.
That's also part of what is puzzling, from what I have seen, in general if it is a problem of a shell covering an area it should not, you notice it even in the texture shaded view, in this case the texture shaded is fine, is when doing the iray rendering or preview mode that the problem comes.
iray.png Screenshot 2025-05-21 224950.png
 
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Jumbi

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Thanks. Yep, that's the one I checked manually, and no, I saw the problem while having the "universal" tool, I use it all the time without problems, and I even just tried after selecting the "scene navigator", same problem - though it was a good suggestion, I did notice in the past that having mesh grabber, surface editor or similar active could affect the visualisation.
Here you have again the same detail, as shown in iray rendering, and with screen capture with "texture shaded" mode on.
That's also part of what is puzzling, from what I have seen, in general if it is a problem of a shell covering an area it should not, you notice it even in the texture shaded view, in this case the texture shaded is fine, is when doing the iray rendering or preview mode that the problem comes.
View attachment 4862207 View attachment 4862209
I think I've seen that before when I had a genesis figure using different values for the shader in the genitalia vs the rest of the skin surfaces. For example, compare the translucency weight of the genitalia with that of the torso. If they are different, try putting the same value the torso has to the genitalia.
 
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TheDevian

Svengali Productions
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Thanks. Yep, that's the one I checked manually, and no, I saw the problem while having the "universal" tool, I use it all the time without problems, and I even just tried after selecting the "scene navigator", same problem - though it was a good suggestion, I did notice in the past that having mesh grabber, surface editor or similar active could affect the visualisation.
Here you have again the same detail, as shown in iray rendering, and with screen capture with "texture shaded" mode on.
That's also part of what is puzzling, from what I have seen, in general if it is a problem of a shell covering an area it should not, you notice it even in the texture shaded view, in this case the texture shaded is fine, is when doing the iray rendering or preview mode that the problem comes.
View attachment 4862207 View attachment 4862209
Yeah, having those tools selected will mess with any shells, and if you have turned something off, as I showed above, using them will turn them back on again, because Daz says 'fuck you', I guess.
 

tretch95

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If you ever activated tools like the Geometry editor, you need to first turn that off (click on the selection tool) and then restart DAZ.
 

ouch2020

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Yeah, having those tools selected will mess with any shells, and if you have turned something off, as I showed above, using them will turn them back on again, because Daz says 'fuck you', I guess.
If you ever activated tools like the Geometry editor, you need to first turn that off (click on the selection tool) and then restart DAZ.
Thanks to both, but nope. Given time zone, I actually had switched off the computer completely last night (having only the select tool selected), went to bed, just started computer and daz again without changing any tool, loaded the character, same thing.
I even loaded with merge (so, not replacing, but in parallel) another character, and there is no problem there, as you can see. Again, it is not a different scene, it is a different character, loaded in the same scene, so, even the rendering parameters are the same.
mergedfigure.png

About the switching on and off the tool, as I wrote, I anyway had not only made sure I did not have any "special" tool active, but switched off and restarted completely the computer, with no change.

At the same time, I use often mesh grabber, less surface editor and more rarely joint editor, and never had the need to restart Daz, disabling the tool by switching to another one is always sufficient to go back to the normal/correct visualisation - maybe is a matter of version, but never had that problem.
Which makes even sense, e.g. I used mesh grabber to make some modifications to "advanced pussy" and to a nose for a character and save them as a morphs, but I had to do various incremental steps getting the morphs back in mesh grabber, then modify, save it, see if I liked it, etc. if I had had every time to restart Daz, it would have been a mess, it is not the creation of a full character, but it is a kind of creative workflow.

What I did have in the past was forgetting that DAZ remembers the last tool active, so closed daz, then opened it, saw something strange, and realising only after it was not because the character was someone damaged, but it was because I still had mesh grabber active - but it is not the problem this time.

Anybody knows if there is any surface setting that may create that colour problem ? Honestly I think it is probably more a problem of some setting about surfaces and that is why it appears only when using Iray (neither filament nor cartoon textured have the problem, but I use Iray for rendering, don't like the filament images and are visibly different, so not an alternative for rendering).

Edit : I tried changing the "transmitted color in the genitals", and I got what seems a small improvement, at least the colour is less strong, but the problem is still there
1747916703666.png
 
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TheDevian

Svengali Productions
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Thanks to both, but nope. Given time zone, I actually had switched off the computer completely last night (having only the select tool selected), went to bed, just started computer and daz again without changing any tool, loaded the character, same thing.
I even loaded with merge (so, not replacing, but in parallel) another character, and there is no problem there, as you can see. Again, it is not a different scene, it is a different character, loaded in the same scene, so, even the rendering parameters are the same.
View attachment 4863738

About the switching on and off the tool, as I wrote, I anyway had not only made sure I did not have any "special" tool active, but switched off and restarted completely the computer, with no change.

At the same time, I use often mesh grabber, less surface editor and more rarely joint editor, and never had the need to restart Daz, disabling the tool by switching to another one is always sufficient to go back to the normal/correct visualisation - maybe is a matter of version, but never had that problem.
Which makes even sense, e.g. I used mesh grabber to make some modifications to "advanced pussy" and to a nose for a character and save them as a morphs, but I had to do various incremental steps getting the morphs back in mesh grabber, then modify, save it, see if I liked it, etc. if I had had every time to restart Daz, it would have been a mess, it is not the creation of a full character, but it is a kind of creative workflow.

What I did have in the past was forgetting that DAZ remembers the last tool active, so closed daz, then opened it, saw something strange, and realising only after it was not because the character was someone damaged, but it was because I still had mesh grabber active - but it is not the problem this time.

Anybody knows if there is any surface setting that may create that colour problem ? Honestly I think it is probably more a problem of some setting about surfaces and that is why it appears only when using Iray (neither filament nor cartoon textured have the problem, but I use Iray for rendering, don't like the filament images and are visibly different, so not an alternative for rendering).

Edit : I tried changing the "transmitted color in the genitals", and I got what seems a small improvement, at least the colour is less strong, but the problem is still there
View attachment 4864020
As I said, every time you use any of these tools, you will have to fix the shells when you turn the tools back off (restarting is not needed). But checking those On Off boxes I showed you before is, if you have more than one shell loaded.

It looks as though you have some clipping going on as well. As if you perhaps have more than one set of genitals. Hard to say without seeing the scene tab.

Currently, when you merge a scene, the last one loaded will be the render settings used, if they have any saved.

A lot of the genitals also have a Fix Shell that can help in this case as well as the material copy (which you seem to have used).

Filament is not the same render engine, and will not work with the iRay textures very well. You need to set the textures up for it to use that one. Effectively, it's just another way preview, not render.
 

ouch2020

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As I said, every time you use any of these tools, you will have to fix the shells when you turn the tools back off (restarting is not needed). But checking those On Off boxes I showed you before is, if you have more than one shell loaded.
Again, thank you, but it is not that, you are insisting on this, but I had checked n times before, and rechecked before the images and the posts.

It looks as though you have some clipping going on as well. As if you perhaps have more than one set of genitals. Hard to say without seeing the scene tab.
Negative, I do know what I loaded and how to check the scene tab, no double genitals.
What you are seeing is the normal, real triangular shape of the geograft with the genitals, it is just that usually when one puts the materials and the right UV, the borders of that part are not visible because it has the same color as the adjacent area, in that case it becomes visible.

Currently, when you merge a scene, the last one loaded will be the render settings used, if they have any saved.
It is possible to set Daz to ignore the settings from the loaded and merged file.
Plus, I used the iray even after I merged the second image, so, even if the merged filed had brought its own rendering setting correcting a mistake in the first one, the correction would have applied also when rendering to the character with the problem that was already in the scene, instead the problem was still there for that character - surface, material, shader etc. setting are linked to the character, general rendering settings are not.

A lot of the genitals also have a Fix Shell that can help in this case as well as the material copy (which you seem to have used).
Again, not applicable. The only shell on the character in the scene tab was the breastacular one, for which I both used its own
fix and checked manually.

Filament is not the same render engine, and will not work with the iRay textures very well. You need to set the textures up for it to use that one. Effectively, it's just another way preview, not render.
Part of what are you saying is correct in theory, and there are indeed specific materials, however, in practical terms, since Daz had made Filament to allow to have a rendered preview faster and requiring less power than iray (or better, not requiring Nvidia GPUs), as they said themselves when they launched it, even if not with the same level of visual realism in the image and possible power in settings, it actually works decently enough even without specific materials.
It is just that the images it creates even with its material are similar to the one from another software that I don't like as style and are more shiny cartoonish to my eye, plus most stuff does not come filament-ready, and one would have to convert stuff.
Though there seems to be a misunderstanding here about what is "rendering", since you are trying to separate previewing from rendering.

Texture shading does not do full rendering, as the name says, only applies the texture.
Filament, 3dl (never used it), iray are all renderers, even if you can use at least two of them in the preview - the fact of using them in preview mode or not, has nothing to do with the fact of being rendering engines, it has only to do with the compromise between wanting something fast or something closer to the final image.

Filament is far from having the power, but also the complexity and the hardware requirements of Iray, so, the images it creates are also expected to be less realistic, but it is faster even without NVIDIA GPU than Iray - but it is not because it does not render, it is just because it is less complex and less powerful than Iray, thus also requiring less computation power (and time).
Effectively, even Iray when used in preview is not really doing a full quality iray rendering, which makes sense, since it is a preview, but it is still slower than filament.

Depending on the settings and materials, Iray in theory does full (in Daz not really, e.g. it uses some internal limits for the number of bounces of a ray before stopping) iray tracing, including absorption and transmission inside the material depending on the wavelenght and material.
Said differently...
I had spoken with NVidia guys some years ago (originally, I did not look at Daz Studio to do NSFW images, but with another idea in mind), and with the correct settings and definition for materials, rendering etc., Iray could potentially do a simulation that goes beyond creating just images in visible spectrum - that is visible in reality even in Daz, in some references to e.g. spectral rendering.

I appreciate and I am thankful for the energy and time you spent and are spending in trying to help me, but you seem to assume I don't know anything about Daz, rendering, Iray and similar stuff, because we are going back to the same points all the time.
At this point, I guess the only thing left is trying to check one more thing I have in mind, and contacting the author of that character, since I bought it, maybe he will be able and willing to provide some hint.

Thanks again, and have a great week-end !!
 

mendiael

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My question is about object interaction in Daz 3D. For example, for a beginner it is not easy to make a model sit on a chair or a couch (even if I have a sitting pose for that). I realized that objects blend into each other. I wished that both the model and the chair had a physical surface recognition (sorry for my english) or something like “snap to object” option so when the butt of the model touches the surface of the chair, it should snap to it and then I could adjust the legs and arms. Isn’t this possible with DAZ? How do you fit your models to chairs, beds etc? Is it always trial and error or is there an easy way to accomplish this? Thanks.
 

TheDevian

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I am sorry I wasn't able to help.

I do tech support, I cannot assume anything about the person I am trying to help. No matter what any of us knows, sometimes we miss things (I learn new things frequently), so I can't know what might help or not. Just trying to think of anything that might have any relation. Sadly, that is more or less everything I know that can cause that issue.

Good luck. If you get it figured out, let us know for next time.
My question is about object interaction in Daz 3D. For example, for a beginner it is not easy to make a model sit on a chair or a couch (even if I have a sitting pose for that). I realized that objects blend into each other. I wished that both the model and the chair had a physical surface recognition (sorry for my english) or something like “snap to object” option so when the butt of the model touches the surface of the chair, it should snap to it and then I could adjust the legs and arms. Isn’t this possible with DAZ? How do you fit your models to chairs, beds etc? Is it always trial and error or is there an easy way to accomplish this? Thanks.
No, it's not that kind of thing. There are no "snap points" or anything. Posing is always time consuming, with a lot of micro adjustments.

There are two main ways to pose people other than presets.

1) You can click on the limb/part and use the rotate sliders (bend, twist, etc.).
2) You can use these tools 1747959764187.png to grab and drag the part in viewport.
 

mendiael

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No, it's not that kind of thing. There are no "snap points" or anything. Posing is always time consuming, with a lot of micro adjustments.

There are two main ways to pose people other than presets.

1) You can click on the limb/part and use the rotate sliders (bend, twist, etc.).
2) You can use these tools View attachment 4865809 to grab and drag the part in viewport.
Yes, I know I can use the sliders to bend or twist, I am using it already. I will also try to use the tools you mentioned, thank you for the answer.

There is a guy who created lots of scripts for Daz. One of the scripts is called mcjJump.



"mcjJump will move one selected node to the position of a second node"

Have you tried this? Could be useful for placing a vase onto a table or similar. Will probably not work with models posing on chairs or beds.
 
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TheDevian

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Yes, I know I can use the sliders to bend or twist, I am using it already. I will also try to use the tools you mentioned, thank you for the answer.

There is a guy who created lots of scripts for Daz. One of the scripts is called mcjJump.



"mcjJump will move one selected node to the position of a second node"

Have you tried this? Could be useful for placing a vase onto a table or similar. Will probably not work with models posing on chairs or beds.
No, can't say I have seen that one, could be useful. Thanks.
 
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Pr0GamerJohnny

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My question is about object interaction in Daz 3D. For example, for a beginner it is not easy to make a model sit on a chair or a couch (even if I have a sitting pose for that). I realized that objects blend into each other. I wished that both the model and the chair had a physical surface recognition (sorry for my english) or something like “snap to object” option so when the butt of the model touches the surface of the chair, it should snap to it and then I could adjust the legs and arms. Isn’t this possible with DAZ? How do you fit your models to chairs, beds etc? Is it always trial and error or is there an easy way to accomplish this? Thanks.
Building on what he said, this is always time consuming - the script you linked is good - but I do the same thing simply by having a hotkey for "restore selected item" (ctrl-e in my case), and as soon as I move an object into another container i can just ctrl-e to move it there.

Anothing thing I've found useful is making my own quick movement scripts - i attached a few here. You can put them wherever, I put them in /My Daz 3D Library/Scripts/movement, then you can right click on them in daz and "create custom action"
1747963843751.png
Then, you can open the F3 customize Daz window, and bind hotkeys to each of these actions. For example, I have it set where i press directions on the numpad to move objects/figures around.
1747963958493.png
 
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tretch95

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I appreciate and I am thankful for the energy and time you spent and are spending in trying to help me, but you seem to assume I don't know anything about Daz, rendering, Iray and similar stuff, because we are going back to the same points all the time.
Dude.

1) Your scene clearly shows you are using both the NVG8 and the weird Nipple toolkit, which means there are at least two conflicting shells where you need to fix the visibility of both. And if it isn't caused by that:

2) Filament is not compatible with iRay shaders, it doesn't even work with the regular DAZ studio lighting or anything else. You need to install completely separate assets for this to produce a usable image.

For example, the whole Filatoon shader thing is made for Filament.
 

tretch95

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My question is about object interaction in Daz 3D. For example, for a beginner it is not easy to make a model sit on a chair or a couch (even if I have a sitting pose for that). I realized that objects blend into each other. I wished that both the model and the chair had a physical surface recognition (sorry for my english) or something like “snap to object” option so when the butt of the model touches the surface of the chair, it should snap to it and then I could adjust the legs and arms. Isn’t this possible with DAZ? How do you fit your models to chairs, beds etc? Is it always trial and error or is there an easy way to accomplish this? Thanks.
Physical collision? No way. Just think how long it takes to simulate collision for a single clothing or hair item with dForce.
The most common ways to pose:

A) click on any body part, use the bone rotations (this is very accurate)

For this you can either use the parameter settings on the right side, or switch to the rotation tool which adds circles around the bone joints. These circles can be rotated with the mouse for direct movement.


B) click&drag any body part, this works because DAZ has the same IK technology used for animatons and ragdoll effects in videogames. Example you can click on a hand and drag it where you need it; the rest of the skeleton will follow. At first the model will bend the arms, then follow with the torso, hip, and eventually you'll be dragging the whole figure.

Creating poses just based on IK looks horrible, so you just want to use this for small, quick corrections to be finetuned afterwards with the bone rotations.




To bring two objects together - like the chair and the person sitting on it - the most common thing would be to parent one to the other. This also makes the scene navigation easier. So you use "change parent" but do not use "parent in place".

This moves the selected object to the location of the parent object. It will also copy any rotations the parent already has.
 

ouch2020

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Dude.

1) Your scene clearly shows you are using both the NVG8 and the weird Nipple toolkit, which means there are at least two conflicting shells where you need to fix the visibility of both. And if it isn't caused by that:

2) Filament is not compatible with iRay shaders, it doesn't even work with the regular DAZ studio lighting or anything else. You need to install completely separate assets for this to produce a usable image.

For example, the whole Filatoon shader thing is made for Filament.
Sorry, but now you are being arrogant, and showing you are talking, or better, writing, just to show off, not to help, and have not practiced enough what you are talking about, and don't "dude" me.

1) First of all, I am not using NVG8 at all, and I even wrote I was using the standard genitals, which have no shell - if the posts have become too long, I understand, if even the firsts were too long for you, I can understand, but if you reply to something, you are supposed to read it first.
That is why the first question was if it was possible to have a shell not listed in the scene tab, because the first thing I thought about was that maybe the tail geograft that comes with the character had this kind of thing.
I have never seen a shell hidden so it does not appear even in the scene tab, but I do not assume that if I have not seen something, it is not possible.

2) Wrong. The result will not be optimal and may not be very bad, but you can get preview and even images even if you are using the materials that are not optimised, they just may not look good - I did it more than once.
I have converters for the poser materials, that are not made for Iray, but I used some poser assets without conversion with good results.
I got stuff exported from blender that was not made for Iray using what was coming from blender getting good results.

You are confusing optimised with working and working welll enough, they are not the same thing.

Let's stop here, it has become a loss of time.
 

Pr0GamerJohnny

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Thanks to both, but nope. Given time zone, I actually had switched off the computer completely last night (having only the select tool selected), went to bed, just started computer and daz again without changing any tool, loaded the character, same thing.
I even loaded with merge (so, not replacing, but in parallel) another character, and there is no problem there, as you can see. Again, it is not a different scene, it is a different character, loaded in the same scene, so, even the rendering parameters are the same.
View attachment 4863738

About the switching on and off the tool, as I wrote, I anyway had not only made sure I did not have any "special" tool active, but switched off and restarted completely the computer, with no change.

At the same time, I use often mesh grabber, less surface editor and more rarely joint editor, and never had the need to restart Daz, disabling the tool by switching to another one is always sufficient to go back to the normal/correct visualisation - maybe is a matter of version, but never had that problem.
Which makes even sense, e.g. I used mesh grabber to make some modifications to "advanced pussy" and to a nose for a character and save them as a morphs, but I had to do various incremental steps getting the morphs back in mesh grabber, then modify, save it, see if I liked it, etc. if I had had every time to restart Daz, it would have been a mess, it is not the creation of a full character, but it is a kind of creative workflow.

What I did have in the past was forgetting that DAZ remembers the last tool active, so closed daz, then opened it, saw something strange, and realising only after it was not because the character was someone damaged, but it was because I still had mesh grabber active - but it is not the problem this time.

Anybody knows if there is any surface setting that may create that colour problem ? Honestly I think it is probably more a problem of some setting about surfaces and that is why it appears only when using Iray (neither filament nor cartoon textured have the problem, but I use Iray for rendering, don't like the filament images and are visibly different, so not an alternative for rendering).

Edit : I tried changing the "transmitted color in the genitals", and I got what seems a small improvement, at least the colour is less strong, but the problem is still there
View attachment 4864020
The problem with trying to answer something like this is there's so many different things that can cause that kind of overlap, and it's real difficult to predict without loading the scene myself. When you turn off all geoshells, did you verify the shader on the gens object is identical to the shader on the torso region?

also in extremely RARE cases I've seen gen grafts not be able to copy over certain torso shader properties, usually stuff like dual lobe settings and you gotta set them by hand.

If you can just remove the parts of the figure you dont want shared like specific morphs, then you could upload the scene subset and we could easily take a look at it and figure what's wrong.
 
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