VN Ren'Py A Life Worth Living [Ch. 5 P1] [FiTB_Games]

[Skep-tiker]

I think this should be addressed as your post might give a wrong idea to others reading the thread.

We are sorry you feel the scenes are 'forced'. Every scene in this chapter is based on the player's choice either made in this chapter or the previous chapter, we learned our lessons in Chapter 1 when we did Zoe's scene (we understand it could've been done a little differently) which I think is the only 'forced' scene and we have made sure if people have not cheated after this, Mary won't cheat, in short, we have not used the variables of this scene to trigger other scenes. Hence no scene is 'forced' post this.

There is a note in the initial post - This is a choice-based Visual Novel, so the choices you make affect the behavior of other characters in the game, especially your wife. So be careful about the choices you make.

We have been warning people about the importance of the choices and how they would affect the game, if you cannot take your wife cheating on you, then stay away from cheating on her, simple. Oh yes, we did give the option to change your choices in the intro of chapter 5 just so that the extreme scenes that will be shown going forward can be avoided by changing your choices.

And lastly, you cannot be like "Hey, I'm Fred and I'll fool around with other girls in the game but my wife should remain loyal to me."
That is not how our game works. Fool around? Perfect, good for you. But be prepared to face the consequences.

We are sad to see you go. Thank you for supporting the game.

I get that. Whats really annoys me is the scene with when, when even on the faithfull path mary goes full hotwife mode like "hey frank let me tell you the story how i jerked of your buddy ben", and all frank is doing is like 'wow, this is so hot'. Please give him some spine. Its exactly the same like the glory hole incident is brushed off. If i play the faithful route, i expect that Mary is entitled of the same consequences she is giving Fred on the cheating route.

 

[Sod!]

I get that. Whats really annoys me is the scene with when, when even on the faithfull path mary goes full hotwife mode like "hey frank let me tell you the story how i jerked of your buddy ben, and all frank is doing is like 'wow, this is so hot'. Pöease give him some spine. Its exactly the same like the glory hole incident is brushed off. If i. Play the faithful route, i expect that Mary is entitled of the same consequences she is giving Frted on the cheating route.

Checked the triggers for that scene, Mary will only explain to him (verbally) and not touch him (part of exhibitionism) if you are on the vanilla path & if the Fred cheat count is 1 or 0. However, if you are on the hotwife path or cheating path, she'll 'help' Ben with her hands.

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[Skep-tiker]

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Pretty sure neither, as i hand picked the variables at the beginning of chapter 5 and denied the goth girl

Anyhow, again i got the feeling that everything Fred does without marys explicit consent is bad, while Fred always only says 'yes' when Mary decides to do something without his consent. Why does St. Mary get such special treatment?

 

[Sod!]

Can I have your saves? Just to cross-check if any variable slipped out leading to Ben's scene triggering.

Pretty sure neither, as i hand picked the variables at the beginning of chapter 5 and denied the goth girl

 

[Skep-tiker]

Can I have your saves? Just to cross-check if any variable slipped out leading to Ben's scene triggering.

I might be mistaken.
Anyhow, again i got the feeling that everything Fred does without marys explicit consent is bad, while Fred always only says 'yes' when Mary decides to do something without his consent. Why does St. Mary get such special treatment?

 

[Sod!]

Anyhow, again i got the feeling that everything Fred does without marys explicit consent is bad

Yes, that's cheating path because there is nothing other than that in the game that can be called 'bad'

while Fred always only says 'yes' when Mary decides to do something without his consent.

I think it's not like 'Hey Fred, can you let me fuck that guy' and Fred is like 'Sure'. We have always given choices to Fred to say 'Yes' or 'No', where-ever Mary pitches the idea of something sexual with others.

Example;
1. Fred said 'no' (choice was given) to Mary's hotwifing question in the bar the second time they met Logan. Mary didn't continue with that later.
2. David and Miriam's hotel orgy, Fred said 'no' (Choice was given here) and they went back home. Mary didn't do anything sexual.

Anything and everything involving Mary sexually is consensual. The only 'intentional' non-consensual adventures she has is the cheating path that too because Fred cheated on her.

Why does St. Mary get such special treatment?

This has never happened. She asks his permission for every sexual encounter with others and he can say 'yes' or 'no' and she'll act accordingly.

 

[Dessolos]

haha I couldn't resist looking at this thread spoilers be damned. Tho I just peaked didn't read everything fully. The cheating path looks awesome ( I still need to finish that save on the old version). I cant wait to play the update when it goes public. Would just sub to patron now but spending a bit more than normal last month on steam AVN's. But I do plan to sub sometimes in the future.

Think I will replay this when it does go public so the update feels longer as I want to play the faithful path first anyways then ill catch up on my cheating save after.

 

[Skep-tiker]

She asks his permission for every sexual encounter with others and he can say 'yes' or 'no' and she'll act accordingly.

Does she asks for Bryce on the hotwife path? Or her new boss on hotwife path?

To get thid on a constructive road again, i think the scene with Ben was beyond exibitionism, and Mary should have asked Fred beforehand. Would have giving Fred the opportunity to say at least "Mary that was shit" whe she tells the story for some -Trust or assholepoint hurt the story so much?

 

[gedads]

can they split up or divorce and continue each one on their path?

 

[Dessolos]

Does she asks for Bryce on the hotwife path? Or her new boss on hotwife path?

Not sure on the new stuff but I recall Fred setting up camera's and wanting to watch when she has fun with Bryce on the hotwife path meaning it was his idea not Mary's.

 

[Skep-tiker]

Not sure on the new stuff but I recall Fred setting up camera's and wanting to watch when she has fun with Bryce on the hotwife path meaning it was his idea not Mary's.

Yeah but this was hardcoded, the player has no say in it, no "he can say 'yes' or 'no' "

 

[Skep-tiker]

can they split up or divorce and continue each one on their path?

Nope, MC will be forced to ne cucked without any decision afterwards

 

[Sod!]

Does she asks for Bryce on the hotwife path? Or her new boss on hotwife path?

Define hotwife. Answer straight from Google. I don't know what your definition of hotwife is but see the below-highlighted lines.



Consent was given by Fred (to be on hotwifing arrangements), just revisit your choices for being in hotwife.

 

[Dessolos]

can they split up or divorce and continue each one on their path?

I doubt it till the end if playing the cheating path but only one of the Dev's can answer that no else here can

 

[gedads]

Nope, MC will be forced to ne cucked without any decision afterwards

i know, but those gaves never takes into account the possibility of the wife or the husband changing mind and regretting the way it goes. then divorce/split because they can only see the other partner a whore.

 

[Sod!]

can they split up or divorce and continue each one on their path?

That's a possibility but not at the moment.

 

[camube]

I think this should be addressed as your post might give a wrong idea to others reading the thread.

We are sorry you feel the scenes are 'forced'. Every scene in this chapter is based on the player's choice either made in this chapter or the previous chapter, we learned our lessons in Chapter 1 when we did Zoe's scene (we understand it could've been done a little differently) which I think is the only 'forced' scene and we have made sure if people have not cheated after this, Mary won't cheat

I played Chapter 1 of your game a long time ago when the Zoe scene happened as a consequences of being really drunk.

Has that drinking scene scene been reworked?
Not just not counting the variables but actually reworking the drinking scene monologue and the connection with Zoe scene?

If it haven't been rework, i think you need to rework the drinking scene and it's connection with Zoe scene.
At least in the monologue.

Because at least to me, the unforeseen consequences of being drunk almost made me quit the game right then and there because i thought it would be a game where the dev has no clue how to design even an average game mechanic. I didn't drop it and persist on continuing playing because your Prologue was good

Allow me to explain. It's 100% not about "MC being forced on a scene with Zoe", not that at all.
Events can happen due to story reasons and that is 100% okay for me. MC being drunk and doing it with Zoe is not the problem here.

The problem for me was the mechanic of the neighbor drinking scene. The game (you) gave us multiple dialogue choices about background information of other couples. In game, usually choices like that are being presented for the sake of telling the players informations about the world and it's characters.
Not to trap the player on whether or not the player would choose to leave the neighbor's house before the MC gets drunk. Which in turn have unforeseen consequences of "scene with Zoe".

I want to note that the consequences can be any other thing, it doesn't have to be "scene with Zoe" and it would have been awful too. The "Zoe scene" feel extra awful not because the player have no choice but because the central theme of your story is this Married Couple's life. And you have a great prologue that makes some player (at least me), not want to screw over Mary.

And then with the scene with Zoe, us players screw over Mary by cheating on her. And we didn't even get to make that choice, it was because "MC was drunk".
Which doesn't make any sense because "multiple dialogue choices about background information of other couples scene" usually are not used to trap players like that.

If you haven't rework that, I think a rework would make sense. You can go several directions with the rework. The easiest one would be just scrap the super drunk part. And even if the MC is really drunk, we still have an option to say no to Zoe.

Or use monologue, something like " I really need to go right now. I can't drink more than this, if i drink more i would get really drunk and will be unable to make good choices"
If you forewarn it like that, even if the scene with Zoe is still unavoidable when drunk, it's more of a consequences.

Those 2 direction is just off the top of my head. It can be rework in any other way you want too.
Again it's not about "being forced on a Zoe scene in isolation", it's about the drinking scene + the multiple choice world information + the consequences (Zoe scene) + railroading the player to betray Mary

On your game's version a long time ago, that connection was really bad. If you didn't have a great prologue, i would have quit your game. I would miss out on a great game, and you would have missed out on a patron.

Your Chapter 4 was good, definitely an improvement to earlier chapters. And your prologue is actually great. I really like the prologue of your game.

 

[sagerock820]

I don't understand why people are complaining about supposedly being forced into having sex with Zoe. You can avoid it, I did. If you get that scene, you made the wrong choices somewhere.

 

[simarimas]

The way we have written the game, and the characters, is you, as Fred, have choices. Those choices are not always direct, meaning, you don't get a say in each scene. You chose to let your wife be a hotwife. After this, it is her choice how she reacts to this.

Fred gets to choose who he fucks, but you do not make decisions for other players in the game, only influence those choices by your choices/actions. So if you made a decision to be on the hotwife path, then you are on that path.

As for Fred and Mary, and those choices for Fred always being bad, if Mary doesn't give consent, your choices play into this also. There is an appearance of consent by her, but this consent is also depending on your choices. The Rachel scene, the Julia scene, and even the Charlotte scene. She never says no randomly, if you are on the hotwife path for these, then you get to fuck others just like she does. The only real difference is we like to make some scenes a surprise, and not give them away before hand.

If you are on cheating path, well sorry, too bad for Fred. He made his choices, and now has to pay the consequences.

 

[Sod!]

I played Chapter 1 of your game a long time ago when the Zoe scene happened as a consequences of being really drunk.

Has that drinking scene scene been reworked?
Not just not counting the variables but actually reworking the drinking scene monologue and the connection with Zoe scene?

If it haven't been rework, i think you need to rework the drinking scene and it's connection with Zoe scene.
At least in the monologue.

No, it has not been re-worked.

Because at least to me, the unforeseen consequences of being drunk almost made me quit the game right then and there because i thought it would be a game where the dev has no clue how to design even an average game mechanic. I didn't drop it and persist on continuing playing because your Prologue was good

This is our first game and we are humans. We tend to make mistakes. Not all devs are 100% perfect in whatever they do. It's harsh to say 'It would be a game where the dev has no clue how to design even an average game mechanic' for first-time developers.

The problem for me was the mechanic of the neighbor drinking scene. The game (you) gave us multiple dialogue choices about background information of other couples. In game, usually choices like that are being presented for the sake of telling the players informations about the world and it's characters.
Not to trap the player on whether or not the player would choose to leave the neighbor's house before the MC gets drunk. Which in turn have unforeseen consequences of "scene with Zoe".

You stay back, you drink more. No one is stopping you from going back home and saying no to drinking. Relevant information about the characters was given in the prologue. The information given in Charlie scene was more of a gossip which didn't add much to the story later on. If you want more gossip, stay back and get drunk. The man who is getting you drunk is an absolute perv trying to get inside the MC's Wife's pants. He is trying to get him drunk by throwing away all the gossip that's out there about the neighbors. So that he can manipulate the MC to agree to helping him to spicy up his sex life.

It was not intended to be a trap for players. Just imagine yourself in a bar drinking heavily. Would you be able to return home safely? I just hope you do but realistically it's risky. In the same way you are supposed to take inform decisions.

If you haven't rework that, I think a rework would make sense. You can go several directions with the rework. The easiest one would be just scrap the super drunk part. And even if the MC is really drunk, we still have an option to say no to Zoe.

Or use monologue, something like " I really need to go right now. I can't drink more than this, if i drink more i would get really drunk and will be unable to make good choices"
If you forewarn it like that, even if the scene with Zoe is still unavoidable when drunk, it's more of consequences.

Have you played Chapter 5 yet? You'll know the answer to Zoe's action and will understand why it is unavoidable. Secondly, if we start giving warnings, the gameplay that we want to have - realistic wouldn't make sense. Real Life will not give you warnings all the time.

Those 2 direction is just off the top of my head. It can be rework in any other way you want too.
Again it's not about "being forced on a Zoe scene in isolation", it's about the drinking scene + the multiple choice world information + the consequences (Zoe scene) + railroading the player to betray Mary

On your game's version a long time ago, that connection was really bad. If you didn't have a great prologue, i would have quit your game. I would miss out on a great game, and you would have missed out on a patron.

Post the completion of the game, rework will happen. But along the same lines that we have currently but a little differently in dialogue, scene execution & game flow.

Your Chapter 4 was good, definitely an improvement to earlier chapters. And your prologue is actually great. I really like the prologue of your game.

Thanks. Glad you liked it.