VN Ren'Py Completed A Petal Among Thorns [v6.0.2-RE] [Lockheart]

4.50 star(s) 115 Votes

Myrabelle

Newbie
Game Developer
Jul 15, 2021
56
234
Hi Myrabelle
I loved 'Avalon', and while I would have liked to see some more of Dallas (I tried the Octavia route, but I prefer Dallas) and the three of them together in the end (lewd and story!-wise), it was still a great story and a very enjoyable experience (like for others, the large eyes were somewhat unexpected at first, but made for a very cute looking style in combination with their other looks).

The sister-plot felt a little tacked on, though.
Penny was fun, especially after the initial rework, and I enjoyed her parts immensely. Although I myself wouldn't have made her that prominent in this kind of story.
I'm not really active on either Patreon or Discord, so while I knew there would be a new game, beside some news from threads on here, I got to 'A Penny for your thoughts' mostly without any knowledge of what to expect exactly.

I remembered then that I had read somewhere some time ago that Penny would be the game's protagonist, and I wasn't sure I'd like that game, but was giving it a try because of 'Avalon'. And in the end, I think she actually was much better suited as a protagonist of her own game, than a sidekick in an emotional/'dark' game like 'Avalon'. On the other hand, it brought a lightness to it that I may have missed otherwise, so it's all good, it didn't sour my experience as it seems to have done for others.

While I felt the sister plot to not really fit as well as the rest of the story in Avalon, I really liked her.
But transferring a LI (and she kind of was presented as one) into another story as a LI again is 'problematic' for me. Even though I play the MC in both games, I built an emotional connection to her already and having her in a 'completely new environment' again, somehow damages the wholesomeness of the first one in retrospective. No logic here, just a feeling.
Just adding her as part of the story but no potential LI, even a possible one that never comes to fruition (and not adding that additional last scene with her in Avalon) would have worked much better for me personally.

While the beginning was a little 'different', I just went with the flow and trusted in you doing your magic again.
I found the story intriguing and only then read about people's fears regarding protagonists/LIs/...
I also read about what you had planned from those more active on discord, and was still very much looking forward to future updates. In retrospect, it might have been beneficial to state stuff like that beforehand, but I myself wouldn't have thought of doing so too, most likely.
Sad to see it 'Onhold' and now read you won't continue its story!

As for 'A Petal among Thorns', it's a great game, again!
The mentioned by others repetitive use of her age and relation to the MC is something I noticed too, though.
It's a difficult thing - how people address others in conversation at all is so different. From my own family experience, beside welcoming/saying goodbye to someone or addressing someone that might not be aware a conversation was started, or in a group with changing recipients, we hardly ever use our names at all - we and those we speak to know that we do so and what our names are.^^
With my friends/colleagues it is different, while I only seldom use names, they mostly use them much more often in conversation.

Even ignoring different kinds of (family) interactions, in a presented medium like a VN it is often potentially less clear who is talking to whom and while different name colors do help, relying on them for understanding the story might not be the best idea.
So naturally, VN dialogue might (have to) be different from RL dialogue.
Especially in stories with incest content, it seems to be part of the kink, though? I myself could live with some initial mentioning and then never coming up again unless it was really relevant, just because it feels somewhat forced to me (even in lewd scenes where it is added because of the kink).
That the girl is younger is already portrayed by the visuals (I would hope), the relation hopefully obvious from the rest of the story and their interactions. So my vote would go to a restrained usage of these bits.

If I feel like 30% (this is random!, while I stumbled over this, it mostly led to me more often browsing over the dialogue to get to the real content - which is a shame) of a conversation is stating the age and relation of the conversationalists, there is definitely not enough story in there. And yes, while I enjoy lewd scenes as much as the next guy, I'm mostly interested in the story. Fitting lewd scenes are the spice in it, while those added just because someone needs to have a scene with one's favorite girl just damage the whole thing. I'm not supporting games update to update, but in the hopes to have a finished product some day, that as a whole is balanced, fun to experience again and a good advertisement to the dev for new players.

All in all, I'm looking forward to what the next updates and the next parts of this planned trilogy might entail.
Thanks a lot for your great games!
Hey GingerbreadMan,

You gave us quite a bit to digest. We're glad you enjoyed Avalon. You're right, Leah's entrance into Avalon and Penny's game were both off the mark in their own way. We had never planned for Leah to be a major part of any story but we enjoyed working with her so much that we wanted to find a way to keep her around. And we agree Penny was overused in Avalon. She was another character that was fun to work with and we just couldn't help ourselves. Avalon was full of valuable lessons and we've come a long way in understanding what people prefer and what people dislike now.

There's a lot in A Petal Among Thorns that will be explained in A Moment of Bliss. Writing a story in pieces like this always has its disadvantages. Many people will judge the game on what there is so far and miss explanations and reveals later on. So far we've gotten overwhelmingly positive feedback about APAT though so we're confident this was a worthy story to invest in telling. Hopefully, everyone will give us a chance to explain everything in the sequel.

Thank you for enjoying our work and we look forward to hearing more from you in the future!
 
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Yngling

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2020
1,521
3,237
that game about "you can't see my dick and i can't see your tits" seems a bit ridiculous.
I disagree.

In my experience, there are women who are very sensitive to being seen and much less to being touched, or touching her partner. There are also women who do anal sex first, then vaginal and never get to oral. Maybe most women are not like that but they definately exist.

To me, such hang-ups being present in this game is great. It greatly increases the character depth as well as integrates her sexuality into her general character.

As a side effect, it makes the standard "stairway to heaven" (kissing => french kissing => handjob => (footjob) => blowjob => (boobjob) => vaginal => anal etc.) much less predictable.

What I also love about this game is that there is a certain spontaneousness in the sex scenes. There are some things which are kind of spur-of-the-moment decisions, which also feels very true to life.
 

bamachine

Well-Known Member
Nov 17, 2020
1,352
1,829
There's a lot in A Petal Among Thorns that will be explained in A Moment of Bliss.
Does this mean part 3 will be Dark Side of The Moon? Followed by part 4, where he reconciles with his wife, Every Rose Has It's Thorn?

BTW, even though incest is not my kink, your writing is so good that I look right past that part of your stories. I also like that you treat serious issues with the gravity they deserve, re Avalon's trauma. Too many of these games treat non-con like it is something trivial or even that the victims start to enjoy it, which kinda pisses me off. I know real victims and the way you handled Avalon was so much closer to how an actual victim feels.

Love this one so far, maybe my favorite exchange is the one that included the dialogue below...
 

3DReaver

Formerly 'grohotor'
May 15, 2020
1,431
5,726
The passivity of the MC really rubs me the wrong way in both this and in Avalon. I think the dev is doing this because it might be less creepy if the girl is the one initiating all of the sexual interactions considering the incest aspects but it kind of feels like the MC is the LI without agency, stuff just happens to him and he has no say in the matter. You don't need to have stupid sleep sex or the Dating my daughter levels of grooming but the MC needs to have concrete desires and actively work towards achieving them. When i say concrete desires im not even talking about anything sexual, it just seams like the protagonist is aimless and is not actively pursing any goal in his life, its frustrating.
 
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jaw1986baby

Chasing Redhead sm0ls
Donor
Jun 2, 2017
2,345
7,155
The passivity of the MC really rubs me the wrong way in both this and in Avalon. I think the dev is doing this because it might be less creepy if the girl is the one initiating all of the sexual interactions considering the incest aspects but it kind of feels like the MC is the LI without agency, stuff just happens to him and he has no say in the matter
A story about only 2 people where you choose not to act/interact would not be a story

As long as there are choices it is agency, and the choice of whether to pursue lewd action is done by choosing to play the 2 person story

EDIT:

Also from the MC POV they have a choice to flat out halt any lewd thoughts or progression with their daughter, but they don't take that choice and it is not offered to us (the hand of God) to over-rule them so that may make you think they have no choice but they do. They just chose the path that leads to the story we (the omniscient God) are watching.

Days and days of they watch TV and make food but no one gets naughty doesn't make for any kind of story



PEACE
 
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Mar 20, 2019
43
135
The passivity of the MC really rubs me the wrong way in both this and in Avalon. I think the dev is doing this because it might be less creepy if the girl is the one initiating all of the sexual interactions considering the incest aspects but it kind of feels like the MC is the LI without agency, stuff just happens to him and he has no say in the matter. You don't need to have stupid sleep sex or the Dating my daughter levels of grooming but the MC needs to have concrete desires and actively work towards achieving them. When i say concrete desires im not even talking about anything sexual, it just seams like the protagonist is aimless and is not actively pursing any goal in his life, its frustrating.

I think it's more a mismatch in the male socio-sexual hierarchy and personality of the creator/MC vs audience. A lot of this rubbed me the wrong way as well. A failed clown-dad who makes jokes (instead of being a solid man who can also have levity), who shits on himself and fumbles the situation all the time and is passive-sexual then doubtful, then nerd-teen-hopped up on lust once away. It's weak but predictable.

Ex: He picks his nose and theatens to wipe a booger on his daughter in response to her being mildly flirtatious.

screenshot_20211001_200524.png


It's a juvenile gamma fantasy of a loser (failed career, failed husband, partly-failed father, unsure of himself, passive, self-admittedly bad with girls, saccharin white knight, self-admitted coward, part-victim, etc..) getting what he desires without owning his actions, taking control or winning by *cough* traditional masculine merit. His daughter has to soft-aggressively drive the intimacy along while he sits in the 'plausible deniability'/'not my idea'/'lets impose sexual limits then it's OK' passenger seat.

That said, I like many parts of it (and Avalon), I guess I'm just not gamma enough to enjoy the MC as portrayed. It goes against every grain in my being, but I have to recognize there are types that this appeals to. Many flavors for all the varied folks.

It's good enough that I haven't walked away yet (though I do internally cringe every scene or two).

Edit: I should add that I'm not here to shit on the creator and his MC so much as explain the mismatch with some of us sturdier types. The character development and visuals are well done. The emphasis on eyes is also subtly alluring in a way often missed in this genre.
 
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mordred93

Well-Known Member
Jul 21, 2017
1,527
2,347
I think it's more a mismatch in the male socio-sexual hierarchy and personality of the creator/MC vs audience. A lot of this rubbed me the wrong way as well. A failed clown-dad who makes jokes (instead of being a solid man who can also have levity), who shits on himself and fumbles the situation all the time and is passive-sexual then doubtful, then nerd-teen-hopped up on lust once away. It's weak but predictable.

Ex: He picks his nose and theatens to wipe a booger on his daughter in response to her being mildly flirtatious.

View attachment 1432144


It's a juvenile gamma fantasy of a loser (failed career, failed husband, partly-failed father, unsure of himself, passive, self-admittedly bad with girls, saccharin white knight, self-admitted coward, part-victim, etc..) getting what he desires without owning his actions, taking control or winning by *cough* traditional masculine merit. His daughter has to soft-aggressively drive the intimacy along while he sits in the 'plausible deniability'/'not my idea'/'lets impose sexual limits then it's OK' passenger seat.

That said, I like many parts of it (and Avalon), I guess I'm just not gamma enough to enjoy the MC as portrayed. It goes against every grain in my being, but I have to recognize there are types that this appeals to. Many flavors for all the varied folks.

It's good enough that I haven't walked away yet (though I do internally cringe every scene or two).

Edit: I should add that I'm not here to shit on the creator and his MC so much as explain the mismatch with some of us sturdier types. The character development and visuals are well done. The emphasis on eyes is also subtly alluring in a way often missed in this genre.
I mean - we are all entitled to opinions. I will just say that as a parent of a pair of young adults, it is hard to see them as young adults. Kids want to grow up as fast as they can, and parents want them to stay kids as long as they can. It is a perception issue. Petal is 18 which means that the MC thinks she is 12 so this sex stuff is like out of the realm of his expectations of her. Petal thinks she is 24, and old and mature with lots of relationships and can conquer anything.

The truth lies somewhere in between.

The booger joke would fly with a 12 year old. The MC being uneasy with sex and thinking of Petal that way also is in line with thinking she is 12. Petal thinking she is ready then getting overwhelmed and stopping, perfectly inline with an 18 year old thinking they are 24. All this is inline with expected thought/conversations I would have with my kids at 18, if this were to play out this way (which didn't with my daughter thank god, and my son, well not my type).
 
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Only4You

Member
Feb 12, 2018
358
1,212
How can a girl be so adorable and sexy at the same time?!!! :love:

On a second note, how old do you think she is? I think she is 15 or 16 at most.
(I won't get on an FBI watch list for romancing 15 yr old CGI girls, would I? :unsure: )

1633149077336.png
 
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Yngling

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2020
1,521
3,237
I think it's more a mismatch in the male socio-sexual hierarchy and personality of the creator/MC vs audience. A lot of this rubbed me the wrong way as well. A failed clown-dad who makes jokes (instead of being a solid man who can also have levity), who shits on himself and fumbles the situation all the time and is passive-sexual then doubtful, then nerd-teen-hopped up on lust once away.
Although I kind of understand your reasoning, I share the same opinion as mordred93
Perhaps the game does put a bit too much focus on the MC's failures (his career failing is the pretext for the story), but I don't see it influencing the interaction with Petal too much.

I think the main problem with father-daughter stories is how to initiate the sex without the MC coming off as a creepy rapist. By definition, the power gap is immense. The father will always have the upper hand, both physically and emotionally. Therefore the daugther must initiate it and set the pace.

To me this is not weakness but rather respect.

Another aspect is that love for the daughter, and the desire for her to have a happy future, should always take preference over the MC's sexual desires. This, too, requires the daughter to set the pace of their explorations.

All in all, I think this game does a fantastic job.
 

Ysbald

Member
Nov 1, 2018
103
167
Very nice update. Good idea to have put additional choices in the previous chapters. Petal is still so determined to convince her father to move on in their new relationship and I very much appreciate that she too has insecurities that she will have to overcome. As for mentioning her age or "dad" in the lewds acts, that didn't bother me at all. I even found the shower scene particularly hot.

PS: Great reworking of the texts in the pool of chapter 1 ;)
 

UncleFredo

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2020
1,934
3,646
I just started playing with this release. For the record I really enjoyed playing Avalon. I found the first two chapters tedious to play. For the most part, the dialog was silted and cumbersome. A couple cute or entertaining lines in 45 minutes of reading doesn't cut it. Usually I read very quickly and burn through content, but it took me three sessions to get to the end of chapter 2. However, in chapter 3 things started to move and the tedium was, for the most part, relieved. Glad to see that because past games demonstrated that the dev is more than capable of both telling a story with the writing skills to back it up. Petal is cute as hell BTW, which helped keep my interest.

Looking forward to the next update. Thanks very much for your hard work.
 

GingerSweetGirl

Engaged Member
Aug 23, 2020
2,519
12,082
So I just completed Episode 3 and I have to agree that the constant referencing of Petal's age and the relationship was noticed and felt cumbersome.

Overall this felt largely like a filler episode to me. The development with Petal and her encouragement over Bliss was unexpected, but otherwise this didn't feel like much was advanced. Episode 2 felt like it had a lot more progress in their relationship. But that's ok, not all episode can move at the same pace; but when you're playing the game in real-time it's just a bit disappointing.

More troubling is the continued subplot with the Uncle. I really don't know what to make of it, but it takes me right out of the game. Stories of sexual abuse and victims are pretty difficult to tell well, and putting them into a porn game is...brave. The dinner scene is this episode's primary opportunity to advance the plot, but I can't say I enjoyed the scene at all. And that's a problem when the episode is so short, and the scene is so important. My main thought through the scene was that this must be the worst dinner party ever. The scene just kills the momentum of the episode, and I didn't think the lingerie scene afterwards was enough to recover. Maybe it would have helped if we saw more of the conversation after dinner. Either way, as it stands right now that is not a scene I would ever want to read through again.
 
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Skrotum

Member
Apr 12, 2020
182
231
I am done with chapter 2 and a bit into chapter 3. I liked it so far a lot. The teasing is perfect and tension is perfect. For my taste the inner monologue of MC could be toned done a bit. By now I know he has doubts and wants what is best for Petal.

The appearance of Yoga and cloth shopping is getting old. Those tropes should have their own tags. Are there not other pastimes an author could imagine how two adults can interact?

I truly look forward to more content.
 

RustyV

Conversation Conqueror
Game Developer
Dec 30, 2017
6,735
31,420
Just wondering what sex animation asset you use.
 
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RustyV

Conversation Conqueror
Game Developer
Dec 30, 2017
6,735
31,420
Overall great update.
What I always find odd in daddy/daughter VN is how the father's will often still be hesitant about having sex with their daughters even after the daughter starts giving them bjs.
Okay I'll let you suck my wang but we can't do actual intercourse, because that's just wrong. Seriously she's sucking your wedding tackle and swallowing her potential siblings.
Cause unless you're Bill Clinton that's pretty much sex.
 

ChunxMatey

New Member
Jun 25, 2021
3
4
I'm impressed with the story and character development, and the obvious thought and detail that has gone into renders. APAT is an extremely interesting exploration of tease and taboo, with some (appropriate) social commentary thrown in. I discovered APAT in Ch.2 and haven't been disappointed with Ch.3. I'm looking forward to the remaining chapter(s) and admit I'm intrigued by the tease for A Moment of Bliss. Awesome work by all the creators, keep it up (no pun intended).

I'm happy for anyone who finds happiness in another (the only caveat being that it must be consensual for all parties involved).
 
4.50 star(s) 115 Votes