4.10 star(s) 104 Votes

Iexist

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I think that your context and experiences may have to do with your inability to connect with Harry's pain in this particular scenario. As they've said before traumatic events can trigger responds such as puking etc. and even if this scenario may be a little bit of a stretch it's quite plausible.
So, it is deeply related to the nature and importance of the bond with Maya, she's not only the person he loves, with in itself its a strengthening condition of the bond, but also his childhood and best friend. This person has been in Harry's life for the majority of it, he has been able to build trust and faith in her which has it's foundation in continued reinforcement over time and experience. Now, as silly as it may be for us (because from little interactions between the we are shown they are showing red-flags), it's something that's completely out of the realm of possibility for Harry, he cannot imagine Maya (who he puts in a pedestal, and thus, dehumanizing her) doing such a thing, even less with Luca.
And this is the pivotal point, she's not only breaking his heart, she's betraying him by fucking the person who systematically has been making his live a living hell in front of him to taunt him, doing something that she knows is gonna hurt him profoundly but doing it still because she's overridden by lust and pleasure.
You're right. I definitely can't connect with Harry's pain. Even leaving aside my own nature, it's partly because I halfway agree with Luca on one thing, one statement he made that I agree with, with an addition.

Willful ignorance is a sin. Emphasis mine. It's fine to not know stuff. It's fine if you didn't learn things because you didn't have the opportunity or the time or whatnot... It's not at ALL fine if you keep ignoring the signs right in front of your nose until you're literally forced to face reality.

Because of this, to an extent, I suppose I feel like Harry deserved to lose Maya. He didn't even stop to think for one moment that she might have done something extremely stupid for his sake and then got herself in to deep in the mess to know how to get herself out on her own.

No matter how you look at things, willful ignorance is Harry's biggest flaw, and it's a huge one. It's what ends up destroying his life with Laura... though I honestly think that even without Luca, their relationship was kind of doomed in the long run as both of them failed to properly deal with their own problems and whatnot.

Moving on...

I've read a lot more of the game at this point. Played through all of the Aya endings... and looking through the list of endings... I have to wonder one thing.

How the heck does a NTR VN have more good endings for the cuck than bad ones? XD Going in I expected that the majority of the endings would be absolutely horrible for Harry in pretty much all aspects. Especially if he paid attention to Aya. I didn't expect it to basically go the other way around...

Though I suppose this means that the future Aya DLC/extra-content/whatever is going to be particularly vile when it comes out...
 
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Chinel

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You're right. I definitely can't connect with Harry's pain. Even leaving aside my own nature, it's partly because I halfway agree with Luca on one thing, one statement he made that I agree with, with an addition.

Willful ignorance is a sin. Emphasis mine. It's fine to not know stuff. It's fine if you didn't learn things because you didn't have the opportunity or the time or whatnot... It's not at ALL fine if you keep ignoring the signs right in front of your nose until you're literally forced to face reality.
I mean. While that is true, the issue I have having any distaste for Harry on that is due to who is speaking that.

Yeah, williful ignorance is a sin (hence why I heavily think Aya deserves to be slapped in the face, rub the Truth on Harry's face without any fear until he accepts it. What it will break is his delusion, but of course she can't because she does not want a Harry who was cracked by it, ah, she is as deluded as him and Laura), but being unable to see a flaw in your own self, one which you accuse others of is far worse. Luca himself is the greatest example of that. See how he talks about love.

He is wrong, but WILL SO MUCH REFUSE to see it that he will ACTIVELY try to destroy a man's life due to it. He can be blamed of the same sin that Harry has. Harry is willifully ignorant by choice, but he is not a hypocrite. Luca is, massively at that.

He accuses and claims he wants to punish Harry for not seeing the facts, but he himself does not.

Luca is the last one who can call out Harry on that, actually?

He shouldn't even call him out on that. After all he insists love doesn't exist in a lot of evidence of the contrary. Willifully ignorant calling someone else willifully ignorant?

Pot Calling Kettle Black.
That is why I hate Luca. Hypocrites are the worst and deserve nothing but a good scalping and scorching fire.

Also yeah.
Aya route will be vile probably. She was the only thing protecting Harry, mix with her Yandere tendencies...

Unless Harry wakes up like in the Good ending and runs away at the speed of light.
 
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Iexist

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On the one hand, I definitely agree that Luca can go die in a fire or something... Which makes it all the more amusing that he dies in most endings. However, my reason for the dislike is not hypocrisy. And it's hard to say for sure if he really is a hypocrite on the subject of love... or if he's just been that traumatized by what happened to him when he was 12 of all things. That's on a whoooole other level of fucked up. It's the kind of thing that'd make anyone question if anything they knew before that point is real.

On top of that, the situation with Maya only proved him right, in his mind. Think about it. She supposedly loved Harry, but when hit with a combination of pleasure from Luca and lack of support from Harry... who if we set his own issues to the side, was an awkward teenager with all the issues you can expect at that age... She folded like a house of cards and her love went up in smoke, showing that it wasn't actually worth anything to her.

Of course, she partly did to herself with her own stupidity... Because BOY was she stupid... However, it doesn't change the fact that she gave up in the end, and that's pretty much proof.

Hell, in ALL the routes, there's like, three, where he's genuinely proven wrong... and in one he doesn't really survive the experience, while the other, the Good Route and its Aya variant, was clearly not something that the author wanted to write at all. It shows in how poorly it goes at the end and the abysmal lack of detail with Luca just fucking off into the sunset without us ever knowing anything about why or what he's thinking.

The Aya endings don't really count because, y'know, he doesn't really get to live to regret anything in all but one of them, and there he lives as a meat-dildo to keep Laura busy. From his perspective, given he didn't have time to work on Aya but successfully ruined Laura, he'd definitely think that he was right anyway.

So I dunno, I can understand where he can come from with his point of view, even if I think it's completely stupid.

No, what I really think despicable about him is the fact that he was hurt, and he decided that the best thing to do with his life was to make sure everyone else around him hurt the same way as he did. He hated Harry because Harry could be happy in a way that he never could be. He wanted Harry miserable because he was miserable himself... and he doesn't even really deny it. He's not really happy at any point in the VN, even when he's fucking bitches left, right and center. So the idea that someone so unlike him could exist is unbearable to him.

I suspect that even in the endings where he actually wins, the moment he loses the ability to torment Harry with any of the girls is the moment he drops them like hot potatoes, probably in a ditch after they were used like fuck-toys by the mafia clowns he has under him... Because at the end of the day, they don't make him happy. Nothing does. Likely, nothing ever will.

He's the saddest joke in the whole VN, hilariously enough.

Still.

AAaaaaaaaaaall that is what makes him a pretty good villain, especially for a NTR VN where said villains are often extremely bland. Luca at least actually has more than just a huge cock, a hot bod and punchable mug.

The fact that most people seem to agree that he can go die in a fire, slowly, is definitely proof of that.

'Course, still cheered him on for all the delicious smut he produced. It's why I'm here after all. Alas, poor Harry, your suffering was just a bunch of breaks between hot content for me. XD

As for Aya, well, aside from getting more smut of her, of course, I'm definitely hoping we find out more about her background. All the endings and that one short path tease us brilliantly, while hinting at a lot more going on beyond her being a runaway yakuza princess.
 
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Chinel

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On the one hand, I definitely agree that Luca can go die in a fire or something... Which makes it all the more amusing that he dies in most endings. However, my reason for the dislike is not hypocrisy. And it's hard to say for sure if he really is a hypocrite on the subject of love... or if he's just been that traumatized by what happened to him when he was 12 of all things. That's on a whoooole other level of fucked up. It's the kind of thing that'd make anyone question if anything they knew before that point is real.

On top of that, the situation with Maya only proved him right, in his mind. Think about it. She supposedly loved Harry, but when hit with a combination of pleasure from Luca and lack of support from Harry... who if we set his own issues to the side, was an awkward teenager with all the issues you can expect at that age... She folded like a house of cards and her love went up in smoke, showing that it wasn't actually worth anything to her.
The irony about that is that it was MAYA saying she loved Harry.
That...doesn't mean she ACTUALLY loved him. That is something I like to stress, but I don't think any of those characters EVER loved someone.
They might be attracted or obsessed, but love? I don't think so.

Anyway, that did traumatized Harry, in a sense in which he could become like Luca but he didn't, in a self delusion sense. That...well, let's be honest, just because Harry folded over Mary in williful ignorance is not an excuse to grant Luca a carte blanche on it. Those two were technically traumatized.

Sure, Luca was worse, but using quantification for that is...trite. It miss the point.
Of course, she partly did to herself with her own stupidity... Because BOY was she stupid... However, it doesn't change the fact that she gave up in the end, and that's pretty much proof.

Hell, in ALL the routes, there's like, three, where he's genuinely proven wrong... and in one he doesn't really survive the experience, while the other, the Good Route and its Aya variant, was clearly not something that the author wanted to write at all. It shows in how poorly it goes at the end and the abysmal lack of detail with Luca just fucking off into the sunset without us ever knowing anything about why or what he's thinking.
Actually? Good Ending has him disgusted with Laura and Harry, down to the end in which he just leaves to get himself shitfaced because 'THAT CAN'T BE POSSIBLE FUCK!'

He is...willifully ignorant like Harry. It is sad and pathetic, he is what he hates. I should feel like he deserved a rest, but...he is shortsighted on his own bullshit that he can't see that he could easily find the love and kill his own beliefs, but alas, it is far more important to prove that you are right than eating your pride.

Laura is also faulty on Pride, but on that, another time.
No, what I really think despicable about him is the fact that he was hurt, and he decided that the best thing to do with his life was to make sure everyone else around him hurt the same way as he did. He hated Harry because Harry could be happy in a way that he never could be. He wanted Harry miserable because he was miserable himself... and he doesn't even really deny it. He's not really happy at any point in the VN, even when he's fucking bitches left, right and center. So the idea that someone so unlike him could exist is unbearable to him.

I suspect that even in the endings where he actually wins, the moment he loses the ability to torment Harry with any of the girls is the moment he drops them like hot potatoes, probably in a ditch after they were used like fuck-toys by the mafia clowns he has under him... Because at the end of the day, they don't make him happy. Nothing does. Likely, nothing ever will.

He's the saddest joke in the whole VN, hilariously enough.
There is a reason why I say that Harry is the weirdest Harem Protag I ever saw. One of the endings he is...being weird with Harry...for some reason. Harry lives rent free in his head. Why fuck those bitches? Harry. Why work in that company? Harry.
Why do all what you do? HARRY!

If someone told me that his hate is about how he can't get that love Harry exudes for himself...I would believe it. After all he dropped Maya the moment she lost his use to him. He can't live without Harry.

Luca, you are gay, and Harry must run away. Then he gets Purple Insane Bitch who would willingly get him intoxicated to fuck him, an insane Yakuza Princess who wants to own Harry by any means and an Insane Blonde Bastard Mafioso who can't get what he wants really.

Harry must have the sweetest face in that place for those three nutsos have their lives, breathes and minds spinning around him.

Would be fun an ending in which they all think that they got what they wanted from Harry and...they lose him in the same moral corruption aspects that involved Laura and Luca...
Hm...blackmailing Harry and turning him into a sex slave? He is cute...
Hm...:unsure:

That would still count as NTR, right?
As for Aya, well, aside from getting more smut of her, of course, I'm definitely hoping we find out more about her background. All the endings and that one short path tease us brilliantly, while hinting at a lot more going on beyond her being a runaway yakuza princess.
Not runaway, she still seems to have her contacts, not sure why she is there, I think she saw Harry one time, smelled him and went cray. She is cray. If you wanna get her brutally killing you, just take Harry, rape him and proceed to let everyone see the guy not letting anyone touch him and being grumpy/depressed over it.

You get Aya on a warpath on your ass, be careful. Chainsaws, guns, brutal murders or even knives might be used. You can run, but she won't rest until you are dead.

But no issues if you do all that with Laura, she will even find it fun!
 

Iexist

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The irony about that is that it was MAYA saying she loved Harry.
That...doesn't mean she ACTUALLY loved him. That is something I like to stress, but I don't think any of those characters EVER loved someone.
They might be attracted or obsessed, but love? I don't think so.

Anyway, that did traumatized Harry, in a sense in which he could become like Luca but he didn't, in a self delusion sense. That...well, let's be honest, just because Harry folded over Mary in williful ignorance is not an excuse to grant Luca a carte blanche on it. Those two were technically traumatized.

Sure, Luca was worse, but using quantification for that is...trite. It miss the point.
On the matter of love, it's complicated. Love is often complicated and multifaceted. It's one of the hardest emotions to define, especially since it overlaps at times with lust, obsession and affection in general. You could say that Maya had some kind of general affection for Harry, or that she was in love with him. Luca, at least, definitely thought she felt something romantic about Harry based on his observations of her.

It was definitely a shallow kind of love at best, which, to be fair, is pretty normal for someone in high-school. For teenagers, lust often trumps just about everything because of how hormones work during that period of time.

As for Luca, his trauma doesn't excuse anything at all. Just because it explains WHY he's the way he is and makes it understandable, it doesn't really change that he's a monster... and he's a monster because he chooses to be one.

Actually? Good Ending has him disgusted with Laura and Harry, down to the end in which he just leaves to get himself shitfaced because 'THAT CAN'T BE POSSIBLE FUCK!'

He is...willifully ignorant like Harry. It is sad and pathetic, he is what he hates. I should feel like he deserved a rest, but...he is shortsighted on his own bullshit that he can't see that he could easily find the love and kill his own beliefs, but alas, it is far more important to prove that you are right than eating your pride.

Laura is also faulty on Pride, but on that, another time.
Luca's reaction during that scene didn't seem quite that simple and his tone, so to speak, felt to flippant, for lack of a better word. Was he actually disgusted? Or was he oddly pleased that he managed to drag Harry down to the point of becoming a manwhore like him to win Laura back? (+Aya in that other ending... but let's face it, it'd be 6 months at most before Harry and Laura both were Aya's bitches and loving it.... I seriously doubt that she didn't plan for Harry to find them with that double-ended dildo stuffed in their cunts.)

In any case, it just feels like the author REALLY didn't want to write that ending at all, which is why it feels like it just switches off very fast.

There is a reason why I say that Harry is the weirdest Harem Protag I ever saw. One of the endings he is...being weird with Harry...for some reason. Harry lives rent free in his head. Why fuck those bitches? Harry. Why work in that company? Harry.
Why do all what you do? HARRY!

If someone told me that his hate is about how he can't get that love Harry exudes for himself...I would believe it. After all he dropped Maya the moment she lost his use to him. He can't live without Harry.

Luca, you are gay, and Harry must run away. Then he gets Purple Insane Bitch who would willingly get him intoxicated to fuck him, an insane Yakuza Princess who wants to own Harry by any means and an Insane Blonde Bastard Mafioso who can't get what he wants really.

Harry must have the sweetest face in that place for those three nutsos have their lives, breathes and minds spinning around him.

Would be fun an ending in which they all think that they got what they wanted from Harry and...they lose him in the same moral corruption aspects that involved Laura and Luca...
Hm...blackmailing Harry and turning him into a sex slave? He is cute...
Hm...:unsure:
In Luca's case, I don't think he has any attraction for Harry. It's just that he genuinely hates Harry. Most people don't understand what it means to really hate. To genuinely, utterly, completely hate something. It's said that hatred is the other side of the coin to love, the negative to its positive. When you hate, genuinely hate... it's not enough to destroy something. It's not enough to get it out of your life. No. You want it close. You want it near. You want to taint it, to rip it to make it suffer, to make it experience more and more horrible things. When you hate a person, genuinely hate them, killing them is not enough, hitting them directly or the like is not enough. Only true suffering will ever bring satisfaction to true hatred, and it never ends, it's never enough, it's a vicious cycle.

Because hatred is much like love. Like how when you love someone, you want to spend time with them. You want to know about them. You want them to be happy. Hatred is the opposite of that, and it's honestly impressive how well the artist managed to capture the feel of that emotion in Luca. Not just anger. Not just dislike. But genuine, irrational hatred that's rarely natural.

Most people can't feel that kind of hate, not easily at least. Whether you believe that humans have a soul that's inherently good, or whether you lean on the fact that humans are social animals and that kind of behavior and thinking is damaging to the group as a whole in the long run. The fact of the matter is that true, deep hatred is a pretty unnatural emotion, unlike love. Some might say it's normal to hate the things that hurt you or whatnot, but that's often not what happens. The fact that Luca does feel this deep hatred just showcases how insane he genuinely is.

Not runaway, she still seems to have her contacts, not sure why she is there, I think she saw Harry one time, smelled him and went cray. She is cray. If you wanna get her brutally killing you, just take Harry, rape him and proceed to let everyone see the guy not letting anyone touch him and being grumpy/depressed over it.

You get Aya on a warpath on your ass, be careful. Chainsaws, guns, brutal murders or even knives might be used. You can run, but she won't rest until you are dead.

But no issues if you do all that with Laura, she will even find it fun!
Nah, she's definitely a runaway. Her path makes it clear that she was trying to escape that world originally. It's why she doesn't immediately rely on her family right after Luca proposes the stupid game and is forced to let Luca rape her at all. It's why in all of the endings she only acts at the last possible moment. Because at the end of the day, she's in the US working a dumb job at a company that has no relation to her home because she's trying to change from the monster she was being made into.

She also mentions that there's one other person that she loves, someone that was there before Harry. A girl or a woman. A sister maybe? We don't know yet.

In all of the endings that she has to rely on her Yakuza heritage, it's pretty obvious that she's basically making some kind of sacrifice to make it happen. It's also likely why she does NOT call on those contacts in the one ending where she runs away with Laura and Harry and both she and Laura are pregnant in the back-seat while they're driving over to Canada. They're also never mentioned in the alternate good ending. I don't think they appeared in the ending where she murders Luca for Harry and pins the murder on Laura.

The Fallen Hero Aya ending has Harry basically being trained to become yakuza himself, to become a heir basically... and it happens because in that specific ending, she clearly had to lean very hard on her family to the point where she had to do what they said. It's not something she wants, because it means dragging her beloved senpai with her into becoming a monster... but it's better to be a monster with him, than to completely lose him, I suppose.

...
...
...
...
...

I still think that Aya's the biggest monster in this entire VN, even after reading all the paths and all the endings. She's not the most loathsome one, that remains Luca's schtick, but she's definitely the biggest one. Because at the end of the day, when she gets vindictive, she makes Luca's hatred of Harry look like a schoolyard grudge with some of the shit she does to Laura...
 
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Dark_Rance

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Dec 31, 2018
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so i got hero fallen ending and that shit is the most depressing NTR I have ever read.I know MC is pathetic loser but he tried to get his shit together by the end and more he tried more fucked he got.Are other endings less fucked up ? Is it worth to play the game more ?
 

Iexist

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Jul 20, 2018
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so i got hero fallen ending and that shit is the most depressing NTR I have ever read.I know MC is pathetic loser but he tried to get his shit together by the end and more he tried more fucked he got.Are other endings less fucked up ? Is it worth to play the game more ?
I mean, to be fair, he got fucked mainly because Sandra was a complete and total moron who absolutely underestimated Luca and her own daughter's madness, and in part because he simply couldn't understand her and what she'd do in such a situation. He also, as always, ignored the warning signs with her, because he's a moron... Sorry. I just can't sympathize with that guy.

As for different endings...

There's one genuine good ending where the MC and Laura remain together at the end after all the bumps.

I also consider all the Aya endings good ones, at least for the MC... not so much for Laura in all but two cases. (The Clumsy Hero - Aya version is hilarious. The Alt-Good ending is also hilarious.)

The other Hero ending is... bitter but possibly satisfying, depending on perspective. Fair warning though, it's basically a cliff-hanger.

The remaining non-Aya endings, aka the Normal endings and the Abrupt ending, are all three straight up, straightforward NTR. The abrupt ending is, depending on perspective, significantly worse than the Fallen Hero ending, at least in some ways.

Don't ask me how depressing they are or not because none of them moved me in any emotional way. Even the Fallen Hero ending. (Really hot scenes in that one. Really, we should have gotten a couple of more Laura+Sandra scenes...)
 

Dark_Rance

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Dec 31, 2018
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I mean, to be fair, he got fucked mainly because Sandra was a complete and total moron who absolutely underestimated Luca and her own daughter's madness, and in part because he simply couldn't understand her and what she'd do in such a situation. He also, as always, ignored the warning signs with her, because he's a moron... Sorry. I just can't sympathize with that guy.

As for different endings...

There's one genuine good ending where the MC and Laura remain together at the end after all the bumps.

I also consider all the Aya endings good ones, at least for the MC... not so much for Laura in all but two cases. (The Clumsy Hero - Aya version is hilarious. The Alt-Good ending is also hilarious.)

The other Hero ending is... bitter but possibly satisfying, depending on perspective. Fair warning though, it's basically a cliff-hanger.

The remaining non-Aya endings, aka the Normal endings and the Abrupt ending, are all three straight up, straightforward NTR. The abrupt ending is, depending on perspective, significantly worse than the Fallen Hero ending, at least in some ways.

Don't ask me how depressing they are or not because none of them moved me in any emotional way. Even the Fallen Hero ending. (Really hot scenes in that one. Really, we should have gotten a couple of more Laura+Sandra scenes...)
Sandra wanted to escape with MC bc she knew that her daughter is gone but didn't tell him shit for some reason.Instead she tried to seduce him but he was still trusting her to be his last hope to get his gf back until the end.All characters just fuck you over in fallen hero thats whats depressing to me bc I cant do shit.If game actually gave me option to escape with Sandra I would.I dunno It feels like devs made characters dumb in this route just so we have million shocking plot twists.
 
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Iexist

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Sandra wanted to escape with MC bc she knew that her daughter is gone but didn't tell him shit for some reason.Instead she tried to seduce him but he was still trusting her to be his last hope to get his gf back until the end.All characters just fuck you over in fallen hero thats whats depressing to me bc I cant do shit.If game actually gave me option to escape with Sandra I would.I dunno It feels like devs made characters dumb in this route just so we have million shocking plot twists.
Odds are that Sandra was conflicted. After all, running away with Harry meant abandoning her daughter, this time for real, to Luca. Dumb as she is, she likely realized what that meant in the long run. On top of that, she's a nympho. Whatever else Luca is or isn't, he's definitely good in bed, and he did guarantee and amazing sex-life and a good, if fucked up, relationship with her daughter, something that Sandra genuinely craved.

So at that point, she was likely definitely torn. Stay with her fucked up daughter? Run away with the MC? She couldn't just make that kind of choice, not easily.

If Harry pushed then, yes, they could have run off together.

The issue is that Harry's personality wouldn't allow him to do anything of that sort. For one, he's simply never that decisive right away. For two, he hadn't known Sandra for that long. For three, he was completely deluding himself about Laura and ignoring the warning signs. His character simply wouldn't allow for such a choice to exist. By that point, he was simply already doomed.

As for communication issues. The thing is... This is a NTR VN. NTR plots literally cannot work if the participants are completely reasonable human beings with normal levels of observation skills and the ability and willingness to properly trust and communicate with each other. Luca's whole scheme would have never worked in the first place if Laura genuinely trusted Harry and talked to him from the start about what was going on the moment Luca threatened her. The blackmail is extremely dumb and extremely easy to get out of if you just stop and think, and even in the extreme case where Harry somehow, in some extremely absurd universe, ended up in prison for a year or two, they'd have still been fine afterwards and Luca would have gotten absolutely jack and shit out of it all.

That's leaving aside the massive plot hole involving the security in that building. Anyone's that's worked in any tech company knows that there's cameras in EVERY important room and especially covering the entrances and exits. There will NEVER be allowances to turn off cameras in your own office for any reason. Even if there were, you'd always, absolutely, have to provide a good reason for doing anything like that. So in any real office building, even 10 years ago, it'd be extremely obvious that Luca visited Harry, talked to him, got him to go and take something from the office. Which means he'd be just as much of a suspect as Harry, and unlike Harry, he's an outsider to the firm and a mafia kid for a known mafia front. Who do you think the police will want to fuck over in that sort of situation?

But somehow, their office building only has cameras in a couple of offices? Really? In what universe?

I dunno about other people, but for me, to enjoy NTR stories, I need to turn off my brain quite a bit. At least this one tries to make an effort to justify the character's quirks and problems due to their varied issues.
 

Dark_Rance

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Odds are that Sandra was conflicted. After all, running away with Harry meant abandoning her daughter, this time for real, to Luca. Dumb as she is, she likely realized what that meant in the long run. On top of that, she's a nympho. Whatever else Luca is or isn't, he's definitely good in bed, and he did guarantee and amazing sex-life and a good, if fucked up, relationship with her daughter, something that Sandra genuinely craved.

So at that point, she was likely definitely torn. Stay with her fucked up daughter? Run away with the MC? She couldn't just make that kind of choice, not easily.

If Harry pushed then, yes, they could have run off together.

The issue is that Harry's personality wouldn't allow him to do anything of that sort. For one, he's simply never that decisive right away. For two, he hadn't known Sandra for that long. For three, he was completely deluding himself about Laura and ignoring the warning signs. His character simply wouldn't allow for such a choice to exist. By that point, he was simply already doomed.

As for communication issues. The thing is... This is a NTR VN. NTR plots literally cannot work if the participants are completely reasonable human beings with normal levels of observation skills and the ability and willingness to properly trust and communicate with each other. Luca's whole scheme would have never worked in the first place if Laura genuinely trusted Harry and talked to him from the start about what was going on the moment Luca threatened her. The blackmail is extremely dumb and extremely easy to get out of if you just stop and think, and even in the extreme case where Harry somehow, in some extremely absurd universe, ended up in prison for a year or two, they'd have still been fine afterwards and Luca would have gotten absolutely jack and shit out of it all.

That's leaving aside the massive plot hole involving the security in that building. Anyone's that's worked in any tech company knows that there's cameras in EVERY important room and especially covering the entrances and exits. There will NEVER be allowances to turn off cameras in your own office for any reason. Even if there were, you'd always, absolutely, have to provide a good reason for doing anything like that. So in any real office building, even 10 years ago, it'd be extremely obvious that Luca visited Harry, talked to him, got him to go and take something from the office. Which means he'd be just as much of a suspect as Harry, and unlike Harry, he's an outsider to the firm and a mafia kid for a known mafia front. Who do you think the police will want to fuck over in that sort of situation?

But somehow, their office building only has cameras in a couple of offices? Really? In what universe?

I dunno about other people, but for me, to enjoy NTR stories, I need to turn off my brain quite a bit. At least this one tries to make an effort to justify the character's quirks and problems due to their varied issues.
yeah not a lot of the story actually makes sense when I thing about it.Still I got invested somehow and thats why it pisses me off its not going the way it maybe should.Gotta try other endings then, maybe I wll start hating MC more and then enjoy bad endings more.So far best NTR i guess since it got under my skin at times.
 

Chinel

Member
May 26, 2019
123
133
Luca's reaction during that scene didn't seem quite that simple and his tone, so to speak, felt to flippant, for lack of a better word. Was he actually disgusted? Or was he oddly pleased that he managed to drag Harry down to the point of becoming a manwhore like him to win Laura back? (+Aya in that other ending... but let's face it, it'd be 6 months at most before Harry and Laura both were Aya's bitches and loving it.... I seriously doubt that she didn't plan for Harry to find them with that double-ended dildo stuffed in their cunts.)

In any case, it just feels like the author REALLY didn't want to write that ending at all, which is why it feels like it just switches off very fast.
It is simple. Luca didn't achieve what he wanted and there wasn't anymore he could do to make Harry suffer, unless if he just went full murder.
In Luca's case, I don't think he has any attraction for Harry. It's just that he genuinely hates Harry. Most people don't understand what it means to really hate. To genuinely, utterly, completely hate something. It's said that hatred is the other side of the coin to love, the negative to its positive. When you hate, genuinely hate... it's not enough to destroy something. It's not enough to get it out of your life. No. You want it close. You want it near. You want to taint it, to rip it to make it suffer, to make it experience more and more horrible things. When you hate a person, genuinely hate them, killing them is not enough, hitting them directly or the like is not enough. Only true suffering will ever bring satisfaction to true hatred, and it never ends, it's never enough, it's a vicious cycle.

Because hatred is much like love. Like how when you love someone, you want to spend time with them. You want to know about them. You want them to be happy. Hatred is the opposite of that, and it's honestly impressive how well the artist managed to capture the feel of that emotion in Luca. Not just anger. Not just dislike. But genuine, irrational hatred that's rarely natural.

Most people can't feel that kind of hate, not easily at least. Whether you believe that humans have a soul that's inherently good, or whether you lean on the fact that humans are social animals and that kind of behavior and thinking is damaging to the group as a whole in the long run. The fact of the matter is that true, deep hatred is a pretty unnatural emotion, unlike love. Some might say it's normal to hate the things that hurt you or whatnot, but that's often not what happens. The fact that Luca does feel this deep hatred just showcases how insane he genuinely is.
I respectfully disagree, people say hate is close of love, but I find it far closer to disgust than anything.

Like, Nazis. They did hate jews so much that they didn't want them alive in the same world as them, if that is indifference, then I guess I must hate a lot since I just don't care about people that much.

Also because last time I saw a deep hate...the object of hate was killed by the person hating, they had such a disgust for that person's existence that they didn't care if murder would make others appaeled. They just could not afford the object of hate in the same world as them.
 

Barely-here

Newbie
Dec 20, 2020
55
23
In Luca's case, I don't think he has any attraction for Harry. It's just that he genuinely hates Harry. Most people don't understand what it means to really hate. To genuinely, utterly, completely hate something. It's said that hatred is the other side of the coin to love, the negative to its positive. When you hate, genuinely hate... it's not enough to destroy something. It's not enough to get it out of your life. No. You want it close. You want it near. You want to taint it, to rip it to make it suffer, to make it experience more and more horrible things. When you hate a person, genuinely hate them, killing them is not enough, hitting them directly or the like is not enough. Only true suffering will ever bring satisfaction to true hatred, and it never ends, it's never enough, it's a vicious cycle.
To use an example he's the NTR version of Reverse-Flash wait scratch that he's the Demigah version of reverse Flash.
 

Iexist

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2018
1,596
2,338
A Promise Best Left Unkept - Aya Edition V0.1.0

What's this?
That's the Aya Route "DLC", or What If VN. Not sure how to call it.

Basically, it branches out from the moment where Aya pins Harry to the bed during the business trip, where, presumably, Harry gives in and just makes out with her, rather than pushing her away. This is while Laura's getting molested in the closet a few feet away from them.

Things spiral into a completely different story from there...

However...

As the author themselves seems to be aware... This route is either going to be amazing, or an absolutely horrible flop.

This is because Aya's been hyped too much in the original VN. She literally never loses when push comes to shove and she outmaneuvers Luca at absolutely every step. This means that creating a route where she falls to his dick is... uh...

EXTREMELY difficult to write in a way that doesn't completely invalidate what we see in the current VN and doesn't look contrived and completely stupid. It's an extremely high bar to jump over and it's extremely debatable if they'll be able to pull it off.

As such, I'd keep my expectations in check and wouldn't be too hyped about anything except the smut itself. They're good, but, this is not an easy hurdle to jump in for what's essentially their second project...
 

Alvillo

Member
Jul 20, 2020
311
212
That's the Aya Route "DLC", or What If VN. Not sure how to call it.

Basically, it branches out from the moment where Aya pins Harry to the bed during the business trip, where, presumably, Harry gives in and just makes out with her, rather than pushing her away. This is while Laura's getting molested in the closet a few feet away from them.

Things spiral into a completely different story from there...

However...

As the author themselves seems to be aware... This route is either going to be amazing, or an absolutely horrible flop.

This is because Aya's been hyped too much in the original VN. She literally never loses when push comes to shove and she outmaneuvers Luca at absolutely every step. This means that creating a route where she falls to his dick is... uh...

EXTREMELY difficult to write in a way that doesn't completely invalidate what we see in the current VN and doesn't look contrived and completely stupid. It's an extremely high bar to jump over and it's extremely debatable if they'll be able to pull it off.

As such, I'd keep my expectations in check and wouldn't be too hyped about anything except the smut itself. They're good, but, this is not an easy hurdle to jump in for what's essentially their second project...
Thanks bro
 

criestoomuch

Member
Oct 22, 2020
228
212
...

EXTREMELY difficult to write in a way that doesn't completely invalidate what we see in the current VN and doesn't look contrived and completely stupid. It's an extremely high bar to jump over and it's extremely debatable if they'll be able to pull it off.

As such, I'd keep my expectations in check and wouldn't be too hyped about anything except the smut itself. They're good, but, this is not an easy hurdle to jump in for what's essentially their second project...
Haven't played through Aya's perspective for whatever reason but I think I've seen all of her endings. So I'm speculating somewhat blindly. My guess is Laura is to do a lot of heavy lifting. And it will take place over a longer period of time. Eventually making her think she can have Harry without Laura hurting him. Especially if the branch starts with Harry kissing Aya back. I can see her wanting to hurt them badly because of it.
 

Iexist

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2018
1,596
2,338
Haven't played through Aya's perspective for whatever reason but I think I've seen all of her endings. So I'm speculating somewhat blindly. My guess is Laura is to do a lot of heavy lifting. And it will take place over a longer period of time. Eventually making her think she can have Harry without Laura hurting him. Especially if the branch starts with Harry kissing Aya back. I can see her wanting to hurt them badly because of it.
There's the Aya Path ending and a whole other FIVE Aya variant endings, for a total of 6... which is exactly as many as the other ending types... which is insane if you think about it, if only because all of Aya's variants could be considered Good Endings for the MC. Laura, not so much in most of them. >.>"

Are you seriously saying you played through basically half of the endings with only Harry's perspective? Because, if you play through the All Perspective, you literally CANNOT avoid her perspective...

ANYway, getting back to the point...

In her path, which is the first thing you need to see before you can unlock the other 5 Aya variant endings... it's BECAUSE Laura was involved that Luca got done in. He got greedy and tried to have them both, and he ended up biting up more than he could chew when Aya used Laura to keep him distracted while she wrapped Harry around her finger and then screwed up Luca and Laura with her yakuza connections.

The fact of the matter is that the big difference between the girls, is that Laura presents herself to be strong and smart... when she's not particularly strong and her intelligence is debatable. Aya presents herself as silly and dumb... when in fact she's very smart and she's definitely strong. Both are batshit crazy btw, but the nuance of their insanity is different, and Aya's insanity comes out on top.

Most importantly, Aya knows that Luca's a Mafia kid, but HE does not know that Aya's a yakuza princess, which lets her have a hidden hand that he can't prepare for.

The dev needs to address these things without suddenly giving Aya the idiot ball, or making her seem mentally weaker than she actually is. On top of that, we have at least three endings that show that Harry CAN become good enough in bed to compete with Luca (The Good Ending and its Aya variant, and arguably, the Aya version of the Fallen Hero ending). Aya should be smart enough to figure that out and stubborn enough to want to make it happen even IF Luca fucks her until she has a strong sex addiction. She's shown to not be anywhere near as short-sighted as Laura after all.

This means that sex alone shouldn't work the way it did with Laura. (And with Laura it worked because she's too short-sighted to think that Harry could accept her as she is... all without going the extra mile of telling of him in the first place, and too short-sighted to think that he'd be willing to learn how to deal with her beyond normal nympho needs. That's on top of the fact that she's not even considering the fact that Luca will eventually throw her away like a used tissue the moment she's no longer useful in tormenting Harry and/or stops being a good enough hole to fuck...)

I'm not saying it's NOT doable.

However, I AM saying that it'll take a lot of work, a lot of thinking, and possibly more effort than the Dev might be able to put in. As someone who's done some writing of their own under certain circumstances, I can easily say that knowing what points you need to reach in your writing... and actually hitting them in a satisfactory matter is not easy. Plus... if I'm not mistaken, the dev made a comment along the lines of "I'll make her fall even if I have to completely mess up the characters." or some such... which is... uh... not encouraging.
 
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