RPGM A Struggle with Sin [v0.5.8.5b] [Chyos]

[Satyr90]

Netorase is basically netorare, except that the MC is okay with it or even encourages it.

So correct me if i'm wrong...

Netorase is like Swinging or a polyamorous relationship. Where you encourage your partner to have sex with others it doesn't have to be limited to something like cuckolding does it?

Netorare is done against their will. Like if the MC lost a fight and Tia willingly slept with the victor because she respected him more.


Am I getting any of this correct?

 

[Evangelion-01]

Netorase: The Partner forces or encourages his/her Love interest to sleep with other men/women, either in order to whore her/him out or for self sexual gratification
Netorare: The Love interest sleeps with other men/women without the Partners consense or knowledge and either neglects him/her or is unsatisfied if with them.... eventually has the tendency of breaking the couple up... in a story you follow the view of the person that is being cheated on.
Netori: The Person is stealing a Love interest of someone else (aka reversed netorare)

 

[Satyr90]

Netorase: The Partner forces or encourages his/her Love interest to sleep with other men/women, either in order to whore her/him out or for self sexual gratification
Netorare: The Love interest sleeps with other men/women without the Partners consense or knowledge and either neglects him/her or is unsatisfied if with them.... eventually has the tendency of breaking the couple up... in a story you follow the view of the person that is being cheated on.
Netori: The Person is stealing a Love interest of someone else (aka reversed netorare)

Thank you

 

[Pervy Sensei]

Originally you were supposed to stop her from seeing Dave by throwing her in the mud, maybe Chyos original plan was that after a set amount of missed dates he'd call her a lier and stop inviting her... but again Frisha would hate you even more for that, since she WANTS to be with Dave in order to have an easy live.
currently stopping her by sending her into the mud is an option if you can't enter the major's house any otherway or lack the Traits to advance (like Perception>=1), but it won't advance her story only postpone it for a week

Okay, yes, I remember it this way. It certainly does make more sense. Thinking about it this way, maybe the interfere/don't interfere choice is more about whether you want to postpone the quest for a week, or decide to pursue the quest that day by spying on Frisha and Dave/Dave's family dinner. If you throw her into the mud, you can't continue with completing the quest, right? Guess I didn't think that one all the way through.

 

[Satyr90]

I'm not so sure a change in the NTR back to its game design will lead to an overwhelming exodus of patron support. There are plenty of patrons on the discord who are vocally not into the NTR, and a lot of the NTR folks are happy so long as there is a way to get to the content they want. The first group can choose the no NTR option when starting the game, the second group can purposely fail quests. It's not hard.

Maybe coming up with valid NTR options for each character according to the punishment design is challenging, but not impossible, and if taken slowly and presented one by one as part of each new option added to the content poll, it should surely be doable.

I couldn't have said it better myself. While I do believe it is going to be difficult to please everyone I don't necessarily think everyone's goals or desires for the game are contradictory. People that want NTR content can get NTR content and those that don't typically will just turn it off. Simple. The most challenging part would be the placement in the poll in order to get the content put into the game. It could be done when updating characters like for example Tia (since we talked about her already). Update her quests and add a few NTR updates. You get her new father quests, a scenes or two, ect. and put in a new NTR system for the orcs. That way you try to keep everyone happy.

 

[Evangelion-01]

Maybe coming up with valid NTR options for each character according to the punishment design is challenging, but not impossible, and if taken slowly and presented one by one as part of each new option added to the content poll, it should surely be doable.

Personally I think this Option wouldn't get much support... as you said yourself the both factions (NTR|NO NTR) only want content for their own taste/satisfication. In this discussion a third faction came to light, but I can't see this faction gaining many members as normal people would only be interested in joining either of the before mentioned.
redoing the early stages of each Character to remake the triggers for the NTR route so they are based on either a time limited Quest or outcome of a certain combat event does not add anything to the game but a certain flavor, so I can't see this becomeing a thing until after the game is completed and no more additional content is added.

I couldn't have said it better myself. While I do believe it is going to be difficult to please everyone I don't necessarily think everyone's goals or desires for the game are contradictory. People that want NTR content can get NTR content and those that don't typically will just turn it off. Simple. The most challenging part would be the placement in the poll in order to get the content put into the game. It could be done when updating characters like for example Tia (since we talked about her already). Update her quests and add a few NTR updates. You get her new father quests, a scenes or two, ect. and put in a new NTR system for the orcs. That way you try to keep everyone happy.

Chyos NEVER dedicated entire Updates to either NTR or Vanilla Route as far as I recall and doing that would play favors to either faction either starting a flame war in the Polls or even risking to break it completly apart... if you continuesly get NTR focused Updates because there are more fans of that content on his Patreon people disliking this content would certainly leave as they see no Option that their prefered content would get added in duo time and eventually fall to far behind... or vice versa.
A character based Update that contains content for both routes is probably the best compromise Chyos could have made...
One the other hand that causes quiet a high Workload on Chyos as he has to create content for both routes of said character each month.
reworking older stuff without adding content is not well received aswell... just remembering the first Poll for remakeing some of the first stuff... that Option was around for nearly an entire year.

 

[Satyr90]

Chyos NEVER dedicated entire Updates to either NTR or Vanilla Route as far as I recall and doing that would play favors to either faction either starting a flame war in the Polls or even risking to break it completly apart... if you continuesly get NTR focused Updates because there are more fans of that content on his Patreon people disliking this content would certainly leave as they see no Option that their prefered content would get added in duo time and eventually fall to far behind... or vice versa.
A character based Update that contains content for both routes is probably the best compromise Chyos could have made...
One the other hand that causes quiet a high Workload on Chyos as he has to create content for both routes of said character each month.
reworking older stuff without adding content is not well received aswell... just remembering the first Poll for remakeing some of the first stuff... that Option was around for nearly an entire year.

1st I never said the ENTIRE update had to be dedicated to NTR. I said you could include some aspects of NTR in it so the NTR fans are happy. Think of it as rather than getting a gallon of water in a day your getting a cup a month until the gallon is reached.

2nd While I was unhappy with the way some of the NTR has turned out so far I believe it'd be far more productive to look forward rather than looking backward. For example I think It'd be useful to either create an optional Netorase (I think this is the category it'd fall under) for Tia. Something like If your the Chief and you have the Orcs under your control It'd be fun to share. Maybe try to make it possible to for the MC to set up an auto visit should you not have sex with Tia in a while. So you don't have sex with Tia in 3 days and she goes over to the orc camp for some fun. The MC has sex with orcs, Tia has sex with orcs, everyone wins. Swinging or whatever you want to call it. Or You could create an Netorare system where if you keep losing to orcs in battle then Tia just refuses to sleep with you because she thinks your a useless cuck. Such a system is already started with the "watching her chop wood" action. Take that apply it to the battle field and then add a scale system. If you win you go up, you lose you go down. It's hinted in the game as her preference, but you could take it a step further.

 

[Pervy Sensei]

Personally I think this Option wouldn't get much support... as you said yourself the both factions (NTR|NO NTR) only want content for their own taste/satisfication. In this discussion a third faction came to light, but I can't see this faction gaining many members as normal people would only be interested in joining either of the before mentioned.
redoing the early stages of each Character to remake the triggers for the NTR route so they are based on either a time limited Quest or outcome of a certain combat event does not add anything to the game but a certain flavor, so I can't see this becomeing a thing until after the game is completed and no more additional content is added.

I don't know in advance what (normal) people are interested in, but I do know I would normally fall into the "No NTR" camp. Still, I am interested in the middle way as a better game. Whether one is into NTR or not should be beside the point. I think it is more likely that people who are pure sticklers for one or the other are the ones in the minority, while most would be open to the middle way. The pure sticklers are still accommodated as I said above, so doing the middle way shouldn't get in the way of having patron support. In fact, I am of the mind it could increase the support by making for a more interesting game.

I don't think the triggers for NTR route should have to be based on time limits or outcomes of certain combat events, necessarily. Those are a couple of ways to trigger for punishment, but my guess is that there are many different ways that could be implemented. It's a matter of thinking about the possible ways that a quest can be failed.

I don't know what you mean by not adding anything to the game other than giving the game a certain flavor. This sounds like you just want to downplay the idea. Really, it's a mechanic, adding an edge to the game not normally found in rpg's, to replace the "game over" idea typically found in classic rpg's. It's really a pretty cool idea, imho, and would make this game unique if executed according to the design.

 

[Evangelion-01]

I don't know in advance what (normal) people are interested in, but I do know I would normally fall into the "No NTR" camp. Still, I am interested in the middle way as a better game. Whether one is into NTR or not should be beside the point. I think it is more likely that people who are pure sticklers for one or the other are the ones in the minority, while most would be open to the middle way. The pure sticklers are still accommodated as I said above, so doing the middle way shouldn't get in the way of having patron support. In fact, I am of the mind it could increase the support by making for a more interesting game.

I don't think the triggers for NTR route should have to be based on time limits or outcomes of certain combat events, necessarily. Those are a couple of ways to trigger for punishment, but my guess is that there are many different ways that could be implemented. It's a matter of thinking about the possible ways that a quest can be failed.

I don't know what you mean by not adding anything to the game other than giving the game a certain flavor. This sounds like you just want to downplay the idea. Really, it's a mechanic, adding an edge to the game not normally found in rpg's, to replace the "game over" idea typically found in classic rpg's. It's really a pretty cool idea, imho, and would make this game unique if executed according to the design.

What I try to say is that most people have proven by their vote to be more interested in either furthering the main story, include new abilities (magic and crafting noteably) or just to see more content for their favorite Character.
currently this discussion seems to fall apart by the fact that 3 different opinions are discussed at the same time.
Personally I am happiest with the way the game is currently developed... we get new content, either in the frm of smut or game mechanics, I don't mind a middle path as discussed but I can't see it getting much support under the premise that game development would signficantly slow down in order to implement such a "route" with backward compatibility as discussed for Frisha or Kate for example.
And given that Chyos already struggles each month to completly include stories and content for the NTR/No NTR routes doing overtime rather regulary by now I can't think he can open up more time to include a 3rd route into future Updates without reduceing the overall content of these Updates or take more time in order to release those.
I think this third route is more of a flavor Update as it doesn't really add anything to the game story or mechanic wise, it just picks an underdeveloped part of the game up and brings it up to date.

 

[RaynHill]

I understand when people suggest developer about the technicalities of the game, like this combat doesn't look good or this boss is way too difficulty etc. but suggesting the actual story of the game, come on man that's entirely upon developer. The developer made the game from scratch, he must have already have ideas about how the things will go in the game, most probably how the game will end, if you guys keep on forcing him to add this and add that, he will lose his creative control entirely. Also about adding more NTR, this game is not dark hero party where mc is a complete pussy, the mc in this game is alpha male, after that witch magic and if he likes to share his girl, it will be his decision not hers, but of course to certain extent.

 

[Pervy Sensei]

What I try to say is that most people have proven by their vote to be more interested in either furthering the main story, include new abilities (magic and crafting noteably) or just to see more content for their favorite Character.
currently this discussion seems to fall apart by the fact that 3 different opinions are discussed at the same time.
Personally I am happiest with the way the game is currently developed... we get new content, either in the frm of smut or game mechanics, I don't mind a middle path as discussed but I can't see it getting much support under the premise that game development would signficantly slow down in order to implement such a "route" with backward compatibility as discussed for Frisha or Kate for example.
And given that Chyos already struggles each month to completly include stories and content for the NTR/No NTR routes doing overtime rather regulary by now I can't think he can open up more time to include a 3rd route into future Updates without reduceing the overall content of these Updates or take more time in order to release those.
I think this third route is more of a flavor Update as it doesn't really add anything to the game story or mechanic wise, it just picks an underdeveloped part of the game up and brings it up to date.

The relevant opinion that BlackKnight and I share is that the NTR should live up to the game design. In particulars, we diverge, but the general thought is the same.

I am not advocating going back and changing what has been done, unless that makes sense when a new option is voted in; sometimes Chyos makes changes like this anyway to better fit new content. Also, I don't think it is a matter of adding a third route in addition to the NTR/No NTR routes. Obviously Chyos is already working very hard, so I am not thinking of adding more work.

It is how the NTR routes are executed that should change. So this shouldn't be a lot of extra work, it should just be a different focus on how the NTR routes are incorporated in the game: As punishments for failure, not as options to be selected.

Again, calling it a matter of flavor is just expressing your desire to downplay it, as I have already expressed it is a mechanic change when we are talking about the requirement for ways to fail the quests. It is possibly also something which adds to the game story if done well.

I don't really think that Chyos will be changing how he is doing it, and I don't really expect to convince anyone, as I had this experience on the discord too. But I maintain my position and concur with BlackKnight about this deficiency in the game, despite its many pluses and that it is still my favorite game here.

I'll leave off at this point, but feel free to have the last word, no sarcasm intended.

 

[Trapezio]

Netorase is basically netorare, except that the MC is okay with it or even encourages it.

In the Real World you'd call it "cuckold fetishism".

Rephrasing myself, I wonder why you guys keep calling those fetishes and sexual fantasies NTR instead of swapping/cuckolding. I guess some people learnt everything they know about sex and sexuality by watching japanese cartoons only.

 

[zARRR]

In the Real World you'd call it "cuckold fetishism".

Rephrasing myself, I wonder why you guys keep calling those fetishes and sexual fantasies NTR instead of swapping/cuckolding. I guess some people learnt everything they know about sex and sexuality by watching japanese cartoons only.

True!
I saw many games made by occidental creators with the fricking Japanese words for everything ì, it kinda astonish me

 

[Evangelion-01]

In the Real World you'd call it "cuckold fetishism".

Rephrasing myself, I wonder why you guys keep calling those fetishes and sexual fantasies NTR instead of swapping/cuckolding. I guess some people learnt everything they know about sex and sexuality by watching japanese cartoons only.

Considering that H-Games means Hentai Games or Eroge should give you a hint... the first succesfull porn games that reached our borders originated from the Japanese industry and formed the market and it's terms.
NTR is an official term even though it's meaning is heavily deluted in this Forum as it's an accumulation of all terms that contain such fetishes with different approaches.
There have been western made translations but same as in most Industries the original terms are used as standard.

 

[Pervy Sensei]

In the Real World you'd call it "cuckold fetishism".

Rephrasing myself, I wonder why you guys keep calling those fetishes and sexual fantasies NTR instead of swapping/cuckolding. I guess some people learnt everything they know about sex and sexuality by watching japanese cartoons only.

I learned about these terms from this site, not from watching hentai.

My understanding is that swapping isn't the same as any of these ideas, while cuckolding, when I look it up, seems about as confusing, with different definitions being thrown around where sometimes it is the same as netorare, sometimes it is the same as netorase, though in the netorare sense it is specifically regarding a married person having an affair, so it's a specific subtype of netorare.

 

[Trapezio]

Considering that H-Games means Hentai Games or Eroge should give you a hint... the first succesfull porn games that reached our borders originated from the Japanese industry and formed the market and it's terms.
NTR is an official term even though it's meaning is heavily deluted in this Forum as it's an accumulation of all terms that contain such fetishes with different approaches.
There have been western made translations but same as in most Industries the original terms are used as standard.

I'll tell you a secret: if you read F95 threads about games that have REAL swapping/cuckolding/hotwifing content NO ONE calls it NTR. Everybody calls it swapping/cuckolding/hotwifing.

 

[Trapezio]

I learned about these terms from this site, not from watching hentai.

My understanding is that swapping isn't the same as any of these ideas, while cuckolding, when I look it up, seems about as confusing, with different definitions being thrown around where sometimes it is the same as netorare, sometimes it is the same as netorase, though in the netorare sense it is specifically regarding a married person having an affair, so it's a specific subtype of netorare.

It's NOT confusing at all. If people don't know a word's meaning, they just need to check Wikipedia or a dictionary.

 

[Pervy Sensei]

It's NOT confusing at all. If people don't know a word's meaning, they just need to check Wikipedia or a dictionary.

I did. That's where I find the confusion.

 

[Erectosaurus]

NO ONE calls it NTR

I do. I'm a weeb, and I use weeb terminology. Swapping/Consensual sharing is Netorase, Partner getting stolen against the protagonist's wishes is Netorare and when the protagonist does the stealing it's Netori. Simple as.

Most games I play are Japanese ones and they use those terms to describe the content of their games. Not sure why you're getting so worked up over it, especially since the Japanese eroge market utterly dwarfs the western one. But I feel like this entire thing has gone off topic long enough lmao

 

[TheBeJoJo]

ok I don't know what happens in this forum that there is so much discussion about the NTR despite being optional content, I see that some want it to be punishment content even though it is, most of the stories have it as punishment for a It fails, and for non-NTR lovers, I really respect your opinion, but it is true that thanks to NTR the game offers replayability, the dialogues vary depending on how the events unfold, I sincerely hope that there is no more discussion about this topic