RPGM A Struggle with Sin [v0.5.8.5b] [Chyos]

[zARRR]

Tia is getting a bonus scene?

As always, when she is not getting a bonus scene?

 

[mrttao]

First, she made his life kinda miserable, thinking only about sex like an animal in heat all the time, losing energy for avoiding touching butt, seeing all of his female friends as potential sex candidates, he even says it “what’s wrong with me?” When thinking about Arianna.

I completely disagree. Not only is there nothing wrong with this individually, but "by their fruits shall you know them".
The MC is the ruler of rumah, the head of the mercenaries who guard the town and the mine, soon to be the ruler of the town. He has magical powers and he has a harem.
If we thought this was miserable we wouldn't be playing the game at all.
We think it is awesome and are jealous of the MC.

Even the MC can address that while talking to Sabrina, that the curse is a burden… or say it made it stronger and get Sabrina futa lmao.

Context. MC did not think it to himself. He told it to someone who asked.

Obviously you are lying to her so that she does not get a copy of your blessing. Because you don't want your girlfriend to grow a dick and muscle in on your territory (isha).

====
Most of the rest of your post is just repeating yourself / going "you are wrong"
shrug. agree to disagree
====

You know people can lie?

You decided, arbitrarily because you are biased against Isha, that everything Isha said is a lie, while everything Athe said is the truth.
You are also not reading between the lines.

Athe: My wicked bitch of a sister seduced my husband in a bid to usurp my as queen goddess and steal my magic powers. so I struck first
Isha: My sister was in a loveless sexless marriage. I tried to help her and her husband, was aiming for a threesome and instead the frigid bitch was so dedicated to her anti sex stance that she she suddnely stole my powers in a fit of jealously and anger.

It is pretty clear that there was a deadly miscommunication between the sisters and they simply misinterpreted the situation horribly. Neither of them is "the bad guy" here. But lack of communication lead to a family tragedy.

 

[mrttao]

The only thing she might have caused is the large Harem though.

The harem is instrumental in the rest of it. Without Tia you won't be getting Rumah. Without your two female luitenants you wouldn't be getting the mercs. You explicitly recruit one of them using the powers Isha gave you, so you never would have had the foundation of your social rise without her.
Her mind control magic makes building the mercs vastly easier too, but that technically is optional. But you wouldn't even get to that stage without the power she gives you over women.

And while you could say "the rest anyone could do"...
The fact is that the MC did not do it until she gave him a divine spark.
Maybe he would have gotten vastly less XP without said divine spark?
Maybe his stats wouldn't scale as well without the divine spark?
Maybe he would never have gotten the motivation (player control) without the divine spark?
Maybe he would have died after his first loss (instead of waking up in bed) without the divine spark?

Such a plot contrivance as a goddess sticking a divine spark into the MC is very hard to quantify. But it can easily be said to affect everything he does.

And so does Athia, though Isha leaves out the part of her siding with Demons to get to that point

Athia also explaining things is irrelevant, the argument was that she never trusts the MC with any info. That argument is false, she does not trust the MC with info on day 1. She does trust him later on as their relationship develops.

As for "siding with demons",
1. demons are just servants of the orc god
2. she is only siding with herself and the MC. she has some plans involving demons, maybe. But so far I am able to fight against demons and their allied forces (the drow) just fine without any complaint from her.

And still you are breaking apart a relationship...

Yes, and?
NTR is not "rescue a wallet from a financially exploitative relationship"

 

[odino]

fight fight fight
im cannot deny it this time im at zARRR side that isha is main vilain of story but this fight is cool someone throw a gas can into it
you can only see isha good if never ever blood leave your sexual part of your body

 

[zARRR]

I completely disagree. Not only is there nothing wrong with this individually, but "by their fruits shall you know them".
The MC is the ruler of rumah, the head of the mercenaries who guard the town and the mine, soon to be the ruler of the town. He has magical powers and he has a harem.
If we thought this was miserable we wouldn't be playing the game at all.
We think it is awesome and are jealous of the MC.

Context. MC did not think it to himself. He told it to someone who asked.

Obviously you are lying to her so that she does not get a copy of your blessing. Because you don't want your girlfriend to grow a dick and muscle in on your territory (isha).

====
Most of the rest of your post is just repeating yourself / going "you are wrong"
shrug. agree to disagree
====

You decided, arbitrarily because you are biased against Isha, that everything Isha said is a lie, while everything Athe said is the truth.
You are also not reading between the lines.

Athe: My wicked bitch of a sister seduced my husband in a bid to usurp my as queen goddess and steal my magic powers. so I struck first
Isha: My sister was in a loveless sexless marriage. I tried to help her and her husband, was aiming for a threesome and instead the frigid bitch was so dedicated to her anti sex stance that she she suddnely stole my powers in a fit of jealously and anger.

It is pretty clear that there was a deadly miscommunication between the sisters and they simply misinterpreted the situation horribly. Neither of them is "the bad guy" here. But lack of communication lead to a family tragedy.

Then we agree to disagree, since you are also blinded by bias or as you said there is another lack of communication since you ignore more than half of my fucking post which makes half of my points.

If you think Isha made his life heaven sure go ahead, the MC harem is a result of him seizing the curse, trying to work it out, but his initial state was already this miserable, then also the curse arrived fucking him up critically wounding his normal behavior.
He is miserable, homeless orphan, poor and now even horny, we get the chance to climb the ladder towards a stable life or a cuckoldry, but his burden remains, tainted in all of his actions.
Also you are wrong on the fact that if he was miserable no one would play it, half of fans here are into NTR and isn’t being miserable a part of the joy of cucking?

For the Sabrina conversation then we have to deduce that everything that the MC speaks is only lies.
First, we have seen too that the MC also avoids the truths or tells half lies, but not in every moment.
For getting more girls, he sure lies to Tia and others, but when he has thoughtful and heartfelt conversations in delicate moment I do believe he doesn’t, especially with Sabrina.
You call it “obviously” that he knew that Sabrina could get a dick or that he didn’t want Sabrina to steal his powers, but the reality is that we don’t know shit either, that’s your interpretation of the matter.
MC till days ago didn’t even know how to read figures the existence of how witchcraft exactly works, so no, I do not believe he wanted to misguide her, also because he can accept later to receive blowjobs from her to give corruption and upgrade her power.
You could say that’s also my interpretation as yours and I agree, but since this conversation happens after she told the MC of the abuse/rape of her teacher the situation is already more intimate and honest, I totally believe he was being genuine, since Chyos doesn’t confirm and leaves open to the player.

Yep, I am of course biased against Isha, but I did not decide arbitrarily If I believed everything she said was a lie, I wouldn’t believe shit of her lines of the lore and what is happening, she is incredible at hiding the truth and telling half truths, she played you like a toy since the beginning, and this is her key aspect, her ambiguous presence.
You have to understand what has relevance in the real world and what is mere misguidance, and all the story of the threesome seems as always truthful in part, but as I said in the previous post even Athia has her faults errors, everything needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
The story of the threesome left me as a blatant excuse, that will sure have some truths that even the myths tell, but was it really meant for an happy family orgy?
Was it a tragedy of lack of communication?
Probably, probably not, we still lack the third member of the story that should the neutral one on this situation, but we are probably never going to get a neutral picture.
And for the bad guy, there is one, or at least a mischievous gal, Isha’s actions speak more to the whole situation of clear villany.
Even if you side with Isha’s motives you can clearly see that she is going Kill bill on all other divinities and that is probably going to be more slaves than one, even not only deities.
Let’s conclude here this speech, because I do believe we are going till next monday to talk about Isha and stuff, let’s dig it up next Athia/Isha’s update so we will have more meat and see if our arguments crumbled

 

[Evangelion-01]

If we thought this was miserable we wouldn't be playing the game at all.
We think it is awesome and are jealous of the MC.

What he made out of himself is indeed admirable, but was that all Ishas doing?
No, she only gave him an initiative to start his harem, because he can't pass a day without fucking atleast once or twice... if neglected to long he might even rape women on the streets or simply mastrubates in public

You decided, arbitrarily because you are biased against Isha, that everything Isha said is a lie, while everything Athe said is the truth.
You are also not reading between the lines.

I'd say that's the common problem here... Isha keeps shareing half trueth with you to gain your support... Athia doesn't have anything to gain from lying to you or telling half trueth... though she is likely to add her personal opinion to her reports.

wouldn't be getting the mercs. You explicitly recruit one of them using the powers Isha gave you, so you never would have had the foundation of your social rise without her.

Whom is that?
I recruited both girls via the Love path and without corruption... that part followed after the Mercanery Gang was formed and both Arenfield and the Mine was under my protection.

The fact is that the MC did not do it until she gave him a divine spark.

That's your opinion... I counter argue and say he never attempted that before Gurtak killed his father and he realised he'd need more forces to get his revenge

Maybe he would have gotten vastly less XP without said divine spark?
Maybe his stats wouldn't scale as well without the divine spark?
Maybe he would never have gotten the motivation (player control) without the divine spark?

Now you are down to assumption not backed by story lore

Maybe he would have died after his first loss (instead of waking up in bed) without the divine spark?

You measn after being defeated by Gurtak? that was before even receiving it

Athia also explaining things is irrelevant, the argument was that she never trusts the MC with any info. That argument is false, she does not trust the MC with info on day 1. She does trust him later on as their relationship develops.

She keeps hiding informations from you even after becomeing your Lover.
Athia does reveal that Isha's essence is corrupted by a demonic stain and that the magic she used on herself and Athia is Blood Magic which is practionated by demons, dureing Mira's route you learn about the weakened seal and that someone worked on it for a long time from the shadows... her narrative actually addsup and doesn't keep haveing plot holes.
Does Isha explains how she regained her magic after siding with her?
Or how she learned blood magic from her sworn enemy?... No

 

[a1fox3]

And this is why I said we need more info on what path we should go for the evil or good endings.
Some things we can see are evil like the dark elves, demons and the cult but others are not very clear.

Raven is most likely to be evil but then again he maybe working with one of the king/pretender or so.

Orc's are evil and need to be taken care of one way or the other, with a high level MC you can go in and kick ass on them.

We will all just have to wait for more story to come out.

 

[RamirezRJBR]

Because of your debate I started the game again! I'm inclined to side with Athia this time and wait for the story to unfold...

 

[RamirezRJBR]

kkkkkkkkkkkkkk

 

[Nellyg]

Because of your debate I started the game again! I'm inclined to side with Athia this time and wait for the story to unfold...

Damn right...Who knows what's in Choy's head.
It could turn the whole debate on it's head!

 

[King0761]

CG RIP 0.5.0.0, PNGs optimized by ~800MB IIRC. Now 2.52GB
Mega
MEGA (not GOFILE), so file will not expire easily.
RAR5.0 archive with fast open option enabled.

What does a CG rip do?

 

[HentaiKami]

What does a CG rip do?

it's just the pictures ripped from game so you can look at the images rather than playing

 

[mrttao]

Whom is that?
I recruited both girls via the Love path and without corruption... that part followed after the Mercanery Gang was formed and both Arenfield and the Mine was under my protection.

I forgot Imawyn has a love path.

I'd say that's the common problem here... Isha keeps shareing half trueth with you to gain your support... Athia doesn't have anything to gain from lying to you or telling half trueth... though she is likely to add her personal opinion to her reports.

This is a very harsh interpretation.
Isha initially told you nothing, once you earned some trust, she tells you everything.
I didn't see any "half truths".

She can clearly make more potion so she has no reason to try to gaslight you specifically.
she is very honest about her more wicked desires. Like her desire to humiliate and harm Athe. So she clearly is not worried you are some white knight who would turn on her. Doesn't try to sugar coat it at all.

The fact is that the MC did not do it until she gave him a divine spark.

That's your opinion...

It literally is not. you literally quoted and underlined a fact.

FACT: MC was a total loser until start of the game. When two events happened at once (father dies, get divine spark)
OPINION: I think that the reason MC turned his life around is due to having been granted a divine spark.
OPINION: You think that the reason MC turned his life around is due to his father dying. And also that the divine spark did nothing.

She keeps hiding informations from you even after becomeing your Lover.
Athia does reveal that Isha's essence is corrupted by a demonic stain and that the magic she used on herself and Athia is Blood Magic which is practionated by demons, dureing Mira's route you learn about the weakened seal and that someone worked on it for a long time from the shadows... her narrative actually addsup and doesn't keep haveing plot holes.
Does Isha explains how she regained her magic after siding with her?
Or how she learned blood magic from her sworn enemy?... No

Not bursting into 3 hours of exposition is not "hiding stuff".
IIRC Isha explicitly mentions an alliance of convenience with that orc god who sponsors demons.
And yet does not seem to mind at all if you oppose him.

What are the "plot holes" in "her narrative"?

You measn after being defeated by Gurtak? that was before even receiving it

are you sure? I need to double check

 

[Evangelion-01]

This is a very harsh interpretation.
Isha initially told you nothing, once you earned some trust, she tells you everything.
I didn't see any "half truths".

She can clearly make more potion so she has no reason to try to gaslight you specifically.
she is very honest about her more wicked desires. Like her desire to humiliate and harm Athe. So she clearly is not worried you are some white knight who would turn on her. Doesn't try to sugar coat it at all.

Not bursting into 3 hours of exposition is not "hiding stuff".
IIRC Isha explicitly mentions an alliance of convenience with that orc god who sponsors demons.
And yet does not seem to mind at all if you oppose him.

What are the "plot holes" in "her narrative"?

But she is not telling you of her alliance with Syfa, her connection to Gromthul (atleast I never saw her doing so when siding with her) or how she intends to achieve her larger goals, let alone the price you'll have to pay to join her.
Keeping important bits of information hidden is also considered telling half trueth.
She is keeping facts hidden from the MC because she most likely fears that MC will abonden her if he learns everything at once... later she can tell it's to late to turn back now or remind him of his involvement of the Events that'll unfold

It literally is not. you literally quoted and underlined a fact.

FACT: MC was a total loser until start of the game. When two events happened at once (father dies, get divine spark)
OPINION: I think that the reason MC turned his life around is due to having been granted a divine spark.
OPINION: You think that the reason MC turned his life around is due to his father dying. And also that the divine spark did nothing.

That's what I said so thanks for clarifying that we are on the same page.

are you sure? I need to double check

After your defeat on the bridge you learn that Giron or dave seized your house and you need to find shelter in Ishas abode.

EDIT: Let's conclude Isha is a Bonus that crashed into the MCs live... how successfull in his attempts to change would have been without her is unknown, aswell as the price there is still to pay for this Event to become true (we know she helped Syfa break her seal and releasing a demon into the world whom is dead bound to end humanity and restore her gods power).

 

[mrttao]

But she is not telling you of her alliance with Syfa, her connection to Gromthul (atleast I never saw her doing so when siding with her) or how she intends to achieve her larger goals,

IIRC she does tell you.

let alone the price you'll have to pay to join her.

you are being so vague here. Anything that comes up later you would point to as being the price, and if nothing bad happens to the MC then the "price" would be things like "all those poor people the demon hurt"

She is keeping facts hidden from the MC because she most likely fears that MC will abonden her if he learns everything at once... later she can tell it's to late to turn back now or remind him of his involvement of the Events that'll unfold

You don't tell all your secrets to a literal stranger. that is stupid.
being "not stupid" is not the same as being evil.
especially if you got burned by being betrayed by family before (her sister stripping her of her powers and banishing her to live as a mortal)

(we know she helped Syfa break her seal and releasing a demon into the world whom is dead bound to end humanity and restore her gods power).

You make it sound apocalyptic, but a demon is an entire species of entities.
and this specific one was defeated by humanity before.

also where did you get the idea that she wishes to exterminate humanity? She doesn't kill any humans when you meet her. seems more interested in getting laid than genocide

 

[HentaiKami]

Personally i would not yet cast Isha as the big evil and Athia as the good one, there's really too little information to make that judgement with 100% accuracy. I'm willing to bet that things are going to be way more areas of gray than just pure black and white here, with neither being just good or evil.

Sure Isha is bitter and currently vindictive towards Athia and condecending towards MC. But you have to remember that she is god that was banished from divine realm, stripped from majority of her powers, turned into old lady when she is supposed to be walking sex bomb and pretty much whenever humans have discovered her true identity they have driven her out/tried to kill her. There's no longer temples for her and no one is specifically her worshipper anymore.

So she allied with demons, that are servants of Gromthuul, in order to gain some power back, even if it wasn't her original power. It's actually quite understandable that she would look for allies of convenience in this situation. But if she was really evil that was going to use MC as just tool and then discard them, why not use her powers to make MC really a slave to her once MC betrays her and refuses to help her in summoning Athia? Or do you think she couldn't use the spell we learn or that MC was somehow immune to it?

It's also not exactly that Athia is much better person. She also treats you with disdain until she is desperate for help, you could also say that her punishment of Isha was way too severe. Also due to her personal insecurities, her faith views women with large breasts with less than positive view.

I'm guessing we'll discover more about both goddesses and their side of the story later on, but these are my musings on the matter based on story so far.

 

[Samuel Hidayat]

All this argument about whether Isha is truly evil or not makes glad me that I always keep multiple save files for each major routes.

 

[zARRR]

So she allied with demons, that are servants of Gromthuul, in order to gain some power back, even if it wasn't her original power. It's actually quite understandable that she would look for allies of convenience in this situation. But if she was really evil that was going to use MC as just tool and then discard them, why not use her powers to make MC really a slave to her once MC betrays her and refuses to help her in summoning Athia? Or do you think she couldn't use the spell we learn or that MC was somehow immune to it?

It's also not exactly that Athia is much better person. She also treats you with disdain until she is desperate for help, you could also say that her punishment of Isha was way too severe. Also due to her personal insecurities, her faith views women with large breasts with less than positive view.

Isha wants the MC to bring the chaos of her seed throughout the land, he is a slave but to sex, and since Isha says that she has been watching him and his behavior I am pretty sure she knows what would he do with that curse.
Athia treats you in disdain either because you were present at the summoning and believes you are Isha’s pawn or because when she was still a goddess she watched you interact with Gwen and Sabrina.
Also you offer the help to her, but I would also be suspicious, if a guy tainted by my evil horny sister kept coming to visit me.

In the end they are both goddess that have nothing to do with mankind, it’s expected that they are a bit arrogant and prideful, but while Isha remains stagnant and focused on her beliefs and goals, Athia learns her mistakes and errors.

All this argument about whether Isha is truly evil or not makes glad me that I always keep multiple save files for each major routes.

Truly, when in doubt just leave them hanging in a purgatory state like me and Liandra.

But also there are routes that pretty much don’t need second thoughts…
Looks at the dead body of Dasan

 

[Ottoeight]

Truly, when in doubt just leave them hanging in a purgatory state like me and Liandra.

Now that I've just replayed everything I have no doubt. There is no way I'm going to hand over Liandra: she's staying at the camp.

I forgot that:

1) Oliver - the dude near the bridge - is working for the Coldstones;

2) Liandra's future husband is going to be the next Baron of Kirlic;

3) even though you didn't hand over Liandra, Giron is going to give you a second chance with Julia.

So, why make her go into the lion's den? she's staying with me and my girls at the camp.

 

[zARRR]

Now that I've just replayed everything I have no doubt. There is no way I'm going to hand over Liandra: she's staying at the camp.

I forgot that:

1) Oliver - the dude near the bridge - is working for the Coldstones;

2) Liandra's future husband is going to be the next Baron of Kirlic;

3) even though you didn't hand over Liandra, Giron is going to give you a second chance with Julia.

So, why make her go into the lion's den? she's staying with me and my girls at the camp.

Man can’t argue with that, even the option of giving the thick potion to her in the camp is said to become available.
Oliver doesn’t really seem too bad for now, he just chills on the bridge checking no brigand comes.