VN Ren'Py A Wife and Mother [v0.201] [Lust & Passion]

[GingerSweetGirl]

The script should be pored over and heavily scrutinized. I've been playing with an edit to the script that shortens things a bit but I haven't gone into wholesale cuts as of yet. Reason is I'm working in the .rpy script file so drastic changes could cause breaks or put text with the wrong image. If I had a version without all the renpy and python commands it would be smoother sailing.

And, cut everything with Dylan's POV.

As a whole, I agree that the script needs to be tightened up. I think the nursing home side-job can be cut immediately and nothing would be lost. I also think characters like the hair dresser and her daughter, and others, could be cut immediately and it would improve the game. But all that said, until L&P gets control over his renders, he'll just pour the time into images that take too long. We could cut the game's story to the bone, and he would still take 90 days rendering images. As Apollodore says, L&P can get lost in the details- and that doesn't help anything. I agree with you that the quality of the images is top notch, but that can only go just so far and when "short" updates are taking 90+ days, there's a problem.

 

[sept0342]

You must be registered to see the links

I just wanted to let you know why these 1/3 day updates take the time they take.

1) First of all only the first 4 events of the current 0.130 update have already 460 renders. With the Aiden and Sophia/Dylan event we will probably got around 650 renders. Which would be more than 95% of my updates yet!
2) A lot of new places and clothes.
3) Very complex and elaborate light settings and scene adjustments. The work I put into the scenes is far more intense than earlier! Sometimes I need more than 30 minutes only to adjust the lighting of one single render until it looks nice enough for me!
4) Story and scene writing, which many completely underestimate!

I know I wanted to release quicker updates by releasing 3 updates per game day. But this also depends on how enormous and importang these events of the game day third are. I think the only way to release an update every 2 month is not by dividing the game days but just by releasing an update every 2 month doesn't matter how many events are included. But the problem could be here that some people who're following particular storylines maybe wouldn't get any event to play at all. Plus if something comes between a month the update would be especially short. I don't know if you want that.
Nut on the other hand you will get some really hot scenes in the next update!
Anyway, I just started with the "Aiden event" and there will be a new nice teaser very soon.

 

[BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM]

That time the link worked.

How utterly defensive of him. However, I'll give him one point, I don't personally feel that there are redundant renders. Could he cut some of them? Sure. But in terms of the numbers, I don't think we have a huge problem with him making bloated updates. The bigger problem is that each render takes him far too long. As he says, he's fastidious and that's killing the pacing of the updates. It's not necessarily that he has too many renders, it's that he has too many renders while refusing to compromise on even the smallest details. On top of that, the decision to upscale to 1080p was a mistake because it further slows everything down.

But all of this kinda ignores the nagging question. Even if he's making too many renders at too high a quality, does that explain needing 90+ days? If we assume 500 renders over 90 days, that's 5.55 renders a day. Does that seem like a lot? Is this just a bad combination of a guy who is uncompromising and also doesn't put in enough time?

That's exactly my point.

And if you want to know if all renders are needed, you can just check the images folder as thumbnail and youll see plenty of renders that are so similar that you will only see the differences if you open the image.

In each 500 renders, a third are just a little eyebrow raise, a look etc. All stuff he could patch in later as some sort of DLC/QOL upgrade.

 

[Talcum Powder]

So I couldn't help myself and found a very simple example:
Dylan only swimsuit photoshoot. Look at the frame when Dylan says
and then
Dylan has moved about three inches to his left (right in frame), the bag is rotated slightly. So L&P didn't actually move the characters (at least, not Sam), but instead moved the camera slightly closer to Sophia's shoulder. Why is this worth the effort? Honestly, did anyone notice and think, well the scene is moving ahead quite nicely now, so glad he didn't recycle that render from three lines of dialogue ago.

 

[GingerSweetGirl]

You must be registered to see the links

I just wanted to let you know why these 1/3 day updates take the time they take.

1) First of all only the first 4 events of the current 0.130 update have already 460 renders. With the Aiden and Sophia/Dylan event we will probably got around 650 renders. Which would be more than 95% of my updates yet!
2) A lot of new places and clothes.
3) Very complex and elaborate light settings and scene adjustments. The work I put into the scenes is far more intense than earlier! Sometimes I need more than 30 minutes only to adjust the lighting of one single render until it looks nice enough for me!
4) Story and scene writing, which many completely underestimate!

I know I wanted to release quicker updates by releasing 3 updates per game day. But this also depends on how enormous and importang these events of the game day third are. I think the only way to release an update every 2 month is not by dividing the game days but just by releasing an update every 2 month doesn't matter how many events are included. But the problem could be here that some people who're following particular storylines maybe wouldn't get any event to play at all. Plus if something comes between a month the update would be especially short. I don't know if you want that.
Nut on the other hand you will get some really hot scenes in the next update!
Anyway, I just started with the "Aiden event" and there will be a new nice teaser very soon.

1. 650 renders. Is he fucking insane? He says this like it's a good thing!
2. We're blaming clothes now?
3. If you need more than 30 minutes to only adjust the lighting of one single render, your priorities are absolutely fucked.
4. This isn't a Meereenese Knot, you aren't writing the next Game of Thrones or Godfather. Keep things in perspective.

 

[Deleted member 2183629]

.

 

[Old Dog]

1. 650 renders. Is he fucking insane? He says this like it's a good thing!
2. We're blaming clothes now?
3. If you need more than 30 minutes to only adjust the lighting of one single render, your priorities are absolutely fucked.
4. This isn't a Meereenese Knot, you aren't writing the next Game of Thrones or Godfather. Keep things in perspective.

So much for being smaller than the last update.
I wish he would stop with what seems(lighting) like bragging and stop making excuses about updates ie be it a full day/50% day or a 1/3rd day just get on with the fucking update

 

[Jansen]

You must be registered to see the links

I just wanted to let you know why these 1/3 day updates take the time they take.

1) First of all only the first 4 events of the current 0.130 update have already 460 renders. With the Aiden and Sophia/Dylan event we will probably got around 650 renders. Which would be more than 95% of my updates yet!
2) A lot of new places and clothes.
3) Very complex and elaborate light settings and scene adjustments. The work I put into the scenes is far more intense than earlier! Sometimes I need more than 30 minutes only to adjust the lighting of one single render until it looks nice enough for me!
4) Story and scene writing, which many completely underestimate!

I know I wanted to release quicker updates by releasing 3 updates per game day. But this also depends on how enormous and importang these events of the game day third are. I think the only way to release an update every 2 month is not by dividing the game days but just by releasing an update every 2 month doesn't matter how many events are included. But the problem could be here that some people who're following particular storylines maybe wouldn't get any event to play at all. Plus if something comes between a month the update would be especially short. I don't know if you want that.
Nut on the other hand you will get some really hot scenes in the next update!
Anyway, I just started with the "Aiden event" and there will be a new nice teaser very soon.

The only line I have my focus on is:
"Nut on the other hand you will get some really hot scenes in the next update!"

 

[Old Dog]

The only line I have my focus on is:
"Nut on the other hand you will get some really hot scenes in the next update!"

Your definition of hot and the devs definition of hot will be completely different

 

[BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM]

You must be registered to see the links

I just wanted to let you know why these 1/3 day updates take the time they take.

1) First of all only the first 4 events of the current 0.130 update have already 460 renders. With the Aiden and Sophia/Dylan event we will probably got around 650 renders. Which would be more than 95% of my updates yet!
2) A lot of new places and clothes.
3) Very complex and elaborate light settings and scene adjustments. The work I put into the scenes is far more intense than earlier! Sometimes I need more than 30 minutes only to adjust the lighting of one single render until it looks nice enough for me!
4) Story and scene writing, which many completely underestimate!

I know I wanted to release quicker updates by releasing 3 updates per game day. But this also depends on how enormous and importang these events of the game day third are. I think the only way to release an update every 2 month is not by dividing the game days but just by releasing an update every 2 month doesn't matter how many events are included. But the problem could be here that some people who're following particular storylines maybe wouldn't get any event to play at all. Plus if something comes between a month the update would be especially short. I don't know if you want that.
Nut on the other hand you will get some really hot scenes in the next update!
Anyway, I just started with the "Aiden event" and there will be a new nice teaser very soon.

This tells me he is here reading the forum and people's comments.

L&P this is quite simple:

• Everyone understands that:
  • You need a lot of renders to tell your story
  • You need plenty of dialogue to get the full story across
  • You need to make new environments on almost all updates (if not all)
  • These things take time and make this VN standout from the rest

• Issues
  1. Slow update pacing (compared to what is still left of the story, do you see yourself working on this in 4/5 years?)
  2. When you finish this this will be a cool looking VN/Story, not a "game", we can only assume the porn game thing is going to evolve in the next years.
  3. Too many branches for you to think about and finish
  4. Redundant renders (they look great but they will slow your work down)
  5. It's not getting better

• Solutions (taking into account that you want to reserve the rendering for yourself)
  • For 4) Render less, reuse same images in a scene for instance and then at the end of each .1, release a QOL update which replaces those "placeholders".
  • For 3) This is story related so that's up to you but be careful not to fork stories even more.
  • For 2) Time to update this VN to a game and this one is easy. Just hire a dev to add things we see on other games (Social Media, Collectibles, Blink Actions/Perks ), he'll only need your renpy code so won't delay you on rendering.
  • For 1) Recruit someone to do all the environments you want. All it takes is for you to choose the base environments and then when it gets back to you you'll have it 95% done. Tweak it as you want for an hour or two and thats it.

These solutions will make the development times better without touching your own rendering times and will also provide replayability + game-like mechanics.

Regarding the time based updates (each 2 months) it's probably for the best. I didn't agree with it at first because it made no sense cutting through an event but given that when you start a scene you don't have control on where it's going to end up in terms of effort, its better to just push an update each 2 months (sort of like Treasure of Nadia each 15 days).

In summary, you can get help without providing any asset and/or having to babysit anyones work.

 

[Kakato]

Hope Sophia will get her toes licked the day my grand sons will come to visit me in retirement home. I'm speechless. Anyway, ciao.

 

[FdjsEre]

1. is isn't a Meereenese Knot, you aren't writing the next Game of Thrones or Godfather. Keep things in perspective.

Ridiculous political propaganda and just shit for dumb puberts. These aren't films - they're trash. And to compare these films to this game is just cheeky and provocative !

This game is like a Tinto Brass masterpiece!

 

[BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM]

Yup yup and more yup. I think for me it was the latest shower scene, but yeah.

I replayed the full game without pressing control and yeah, the inner monologues kill it.

There's some cool jokes when people are interacting with eachother but the inner monologues.. I'd skip them from now on.
For instance the inner monologue in the lingerie store.. like.. Why? There's no need to be so verbose.

 

[Alley_Cat]

"2) A lot of new places and clothes."
please can you withdraw "A lot"
However, I think it's still missing the newsstand where Sophia's father works, and who helps Jessica O'Neil
Anyway everyone will end up naked

Well this would be Ellie's first opportunity to sunbathe naked in the backyard with Dylan at boarding school, but my hopes for that being shown are not high.

 

[BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM]

So much for being smaller than the last update.
I wish he would stop with what seems(lighting) like bragging and stop making excuses about updates ie be it a full day/50% day or a 1/3rd day just get on with the fucking update

Well well well OD, welcome to my side

I understand he takes time with the lights because his renders have superb lighting but man.. half hour to tweak something? 650 renders for a few events?
Damn, how does he think that that is a good thing? It's too many renders for such a small part of the plot.

 

[BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM]

2) A lot of new places and clothes.
3) Very complex and elaborate light settings and scene adjustments. The work I put into the scenes is far more intense than earlier!

Regarding clothes he probably has a library of a thousand clothing assets + shaping them + surface/meshes. He probably just goes through all of them to choose.
Repeat for each character on scene.
Upgrades GPUs to render faster, ends up in the same place.

Regarding the intensity, this is not the first time he says this, I don't get what he is trying to convey.

 

[FdjsEre]

how does he think that that is a good thing?

He's not the only one who thinks so. I think it's a good thing too.

 

[BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM]

So I couldn't help myself and found a very simple example:
Dylan only swimsuit photoshoot. Look at the frame when Dylan says View attachment 1104808
and then View attachment 1104812
Dylan has moved about three inches to his left (right in frame), the bag is rotated slightly. So L&P didn't actually move the characters (at least, not Sam), but instead moved the camera slightly closer to Sophia's shoulder. Why is this worth the effort? Honestly, did anyone notice and think, well the scene is moving ahead quite nicely now, so glad he didn't recycle that render from three lines of dialogue ago.

SEE, I'VE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR 2 YEARS.
Thank you

 

[Alley_Cat]

This tells me he is here reading the forum and people's comments.

L&P this is quite simple:

• Everyone understands that:
  • You need a lot of renders to tell your story
  • You need plenty of dialogue to get the full story across
  • You need to make new environments on almost all updates (if not all)
  • These things take time and make this VN standout from the rest

• Issues
  1. Slow update pacing (compared to what is still left of the story, do you see yourself working on this in 4/5 years?)
  2. When you finish this this will be a cool looking VN/Story, not a "game", we can only assume the porn game thing is going to evolve in the next years.
  3. Too many branches for you to think about and finish
  4. Redundant renders (they look great but they will slow your work down)
  5. It's not getting better

• Solutions (taking into account that you want to reserve the rendering for yourself)
  • For 4) Render less, reuse same images in a scene for instance and then at the end of each .1, release a QOL update which replaces those "placeholders".
  • For 3) This is story related so that's up to you but be careful not to fork stories even more.
  • For 2) Time to update this VN to a game and this one is easy. Just hire a dev to add things we see on other games (Social Media, Collectibles, Blink Actions/Perks ), he'll only need your renpy code so won't delay you on rendering.
  • For 1) Recruit someone to do all the environments you want. All it takes is for you to choose the base environments and then when it gets back to you you'll have it 95% done. Tweak it as you want for an hour or two and thats it.

These solutions will make the development times better without touching your own rendering times and will also provide replayability + game-like mechanics.

Regarding the time based updates (each 2 months) it's probably for the best. I didn't agree with it at first because it made no sense cutting through an event but given that when you start a scene you don't have control on where it's going to end up in terms of effort, its better to just push an update each 2 months (sort of like Treasure of Nadia each 15 days).

In summary, you can get help without providing any asset and/or having to babysit anyones work.

Well well well OD, welcome to my side

I understand he takes time with the lights because his renders have superb lighting but man.. half hour to tweak something? 650 renders for a few events?
Damn, how does he think that that is a good thing?

I find it telling that for all this talk of "hot events" and needing new places and new clothes, my favourites have been located in the backyard and the bathroom, assets he's had since day 1. Hell even the characters are all from day 1.

 

[Old Dog]

Well well well OD, welcome to my side

I understand he takes time with the lights because his renders have superb lighting but man.. half hour to tweak something? 650 renders for a few events?
Damn, how does he think that that is a good thing? It's too many renders for such a small part of the plot.

Who is this O.D you are talking about