VN Ren'Py A Wife and Mother [v0.201] [Lust & Passion]

[GingerSweetGirl]

I dislike hitting any dev as well, but the line between criticism and hitting L&P is getting awfully narrow because of his track record.

The prison scene is interesting. If it grew by an additional 70 renders, then that tells me that he has no idea how to plan and structure a scene. I couldn't tell you exactly how many renders that scene has, but if it grew by 70 then that strikes me as in the ballpark of 50% growth. If that's the case (and it's purely speculation) then L&P isn't just tweaking scenes as needed, he's constructing them haphazardly and without much thought. I've said for months that L&P's biggest weakness is his project management skills- and this is exhibit #1 in my case. After five years of development, if he cannot accurately estimate the number of renders he needs for a scene and stick to it, then he should not be in position to manage a solo project.

For the first time, I think I'm actually concerned that this game will never finish. If it never finishes it isn't because he was a scammer or milking patrons, it will be because he has no business managing a project of this size and scope. He is unable to appropriately allocate resources and hold himself accountable.

 

[Old Dog]

I dislike hitting any dev as well, but the line between criticism and hitting L&P is getting awfully narrow because of his track record.

The prison scene is interesting. If it grew by an additional 70 renders, then that tells me that he has no idea how to plan and structure a scene. I couldn't tell you exactly how many renders that scene has, but if it grew by 70 then that strikes me as in the ballpark of 50% growth. If that's the case (and it's purely speculation) then L&P isn't just tweaking scenes as needed, he's constructing them haphazardly and without much thought. I've said for months that L&P's biggest weakness is his project management skills- and this is exhibit #1 in my case. After five years of development, if he cannot accurately estimate the number of renders he needs for a scene and stick to it, then he should not be in position to manage a solo project.

For the first time, I think I'm actually concerned that this game will never finish. If it never finishes it isn't because he was a scammer or milking patrons, it will be because he has no business managing a project of this size and scope. He is unable to appropriately allocate resources and hold himself accountable.

I really want this game to be completed but as you have said"the line between criticism and hitting L&P is getting awfully narrow because of his track record".I am a patron of his and even I have started to lose faith in his ability to compete this project alone,his ability in renders and story line is great but his ability in the management aspect is awful.
I did say that at the start of AwAm that I thought that he was very naive to think that he could do a project of this size alone and cut him some slack but he should of realised by now that he cannot do it alone.
This is his first project and he should be very proud of what he has accomplished so far, but he needs help now before it is too late.

 

[BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM]

Which is something I warned about years ago.
Eventually we will return to 6 months but for a third of a the day instead of half. It's going to get ridiculous before it's abandoned which, unless he finds help, looks more and more like a certainty.

 

[Old Dog]

Remember the good old days viper6 when we never agreed on anything?How times have changed

 

[Dr.SigmundFap]

It's mission creep yet again. The story may be laid out already, but he has no firm plan when it comes to the construction of updates or scenes. One render becomes two, becomes four, becomes eight, becomes a new environment, becomes a new lighting source, etc etc etc. He has absolutely no concept of when enough is enough. He seemingly just meanders from one render to the next without a plan or cutoff.

If he's now talking about a May 5th or later release, that's ~120 days for this release. If the update after this one is supposedly much larger, are we looking at 160 days? 180? 200? I think it's all but assured that we won't get three updates this year. But you have to wonder if even two updates are guaranteed.

I'm not sure if you were paying attention to the thread around Aug. 1, 2020, but there was a discussion about this topic of Renders/CS and Quality vs Quantity. L&P did respond to that thread and this was his take on the topic.

https://f95zone.to/threads/a-wife-and-mother-v0-115-lust-passion.5944/page-1857#post-3931853

As long as that plays out, as he said about Quality and Quantity are a bi-product of it, there will be no cap on renders. He already repeated that he has no idea how many CS/renders are needed to make his event for a particular time/day. So his Quality can make his render count large in numbers, which will prolong the release of the next update. So when you look and that statement about quality from the link and read other statements from him about faster updates by moving to one-third days, then it becomes contradictory in terms.

 

[BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM]

Remember the good old days viper6 when we never agreed on anything?How times have changed

People mistake my messages for blind dev hate when that's not the case.
It's a pitty he's so bad at managing his own project.
He could make way more money and his patrons would be a lot happier with what he puts out if he just had better work ethic.

 

[Old Dog]

I am going back to fiddling with Alyssa erm I mean rendering Alyssa

 

[BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM]

I am going back to fiddling with Alyssa erm I mean rendering Alyssa

Yeah I need to watch tutorials on how to light a scene properly/realistically.
I might have a couple weeks with plenty of time so I might do something.

 

[Old Dog]

Yeah I need to watch tutorials on how to light a scene properly/realistically.
I might have a couple weeks with plenty of time so I might do something.

Ghost lighting works really well as I use it on most of my renders.

 

[GingerSweetGirl]

I'm not sure if you were paying attention to the thread around Aug. 1, 2020, but there was a discussion about this topic of Renders/CS and Quality vs Quantity. L&P did respond to that thread and this was his take on the topic.

https://f95zone.to/threads/a-wife-and-mother-v0-115-lust-passion.5944/page-1857#post-3931853

As long as that plays out, as he said about Quality and Quantity are a bi-product of it, there will be no cap on renders. He already repeated that he has no idea how many CS/renders are needed to make his event for a particular time/day. So his Quality can make his render count large in numbers, which will prolong the release of the next update. So when you look and that statement about quality from the link and read other statements from him about faster updates by moving to one-third days, then it becomes contradictory in terms.

You link doesn't work.

But that said, I get the point. L&P has never been able to reconcile his meandering style with his "goal" of speeding up development. If anything, it's getting worse.

 

[Dr.SigmundFap]

You link doesn't work.

But that said, I get the point. L&P has never been able to reconcile his meandering style with his "goal" of speeding up development. If anything, it's getting worse.

Hmmm, I just clicked on the link, and it worked for me, but here's the screenshot of the response. I will post the link again.

Pg. 1857
https://f95zone.to/threads/a-wife-and-mother-v0-115-lust-passion.5944/post-3931853

Spoiler: Quality vs Quantity

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[GingerSweetGirl]

Hmmm, I just clicked on the link, and it worked for me, but here's the screenshot of the response. I will post the link again.

Pg. 1857
https://f95zone.to/threads/a-wife-and-mother-v0-115-lust-passion.5944/post-3931853

Spoiler: Quality vs Quantity

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

That time the link worked.

How utterly defensive of him. However, I'll give him one point, I don't personally feel that there are redundant renders. Could he cut some of them? Sure. But in terms of the numbers, I don't think we have a huge problem with him making bloated updates. The bigger problem is that each render takes him far too long. As he says, he's fastidious and that's killing the pacing of the updates. It's not necessarily that he has too many renders, it's that he has too many renders while refusing to compromise on even the smallest details. On top of that, the decision to upscale to 1080p was a mistake because it further slows everything down.

But all of this kinda ignores the nagging question. Even if he's making too many renders at too high a quality, does that explain needing 90+ days? If we assume 500 renders over 90 days, that's 5.55 renders a day. Does that seem like a lot? Is this just a bad combination of a guy who is uncompromising and also doesn't put in enough time?

 

[Talcum Powder]

In terms of dialogue it isn't bad, I get what L&P is trying to do.

The inner monologue though, is too much.

Yup. The dialogue has generally always leaned towards being a bit stiff which is something like two-parts character trait and one part translation, but the inner monologues are too frequent, drone on, and are damn near robotic which, if intentional, makes Sophia ... I dunno, I hope it's just a result of too literal a translation and dearth of common English/American colloquialisms.

 

[GingerSweetGirl]

Yup. The dialogue has generally always leaned towards being a bit stiff which is something like two-parts character trait and one part translation, but the inner monologues are too frequent, drone on, and are damn near robotic which, if intentional, makes Sophia ... I dunno, I hope it's just a result of too literal a translation and dearth of common English/American colloquialisms.

I really noticed this problem during the sauna scene in the last update. I account for it as 60% language barrier and 40% weak story telling. L&P has a good concept for a story, but he doesn't seem like a natural storyteller and the language barrier makes everything worse.

 

[Talcum Powder]

I'll give him one point, I don't personally feel that there are redundant renders. Could he cut some of them? Sure. But in terms of the numbers, I don't think we have a huge problem with him making bloated updates. The bigger problem is that each render takes him far too long.

IMHO you've got this completely backwards - the set up and quality of the renders is what sets AWAM above most everything else on the site. What kills it is the dialogue and inner monologues are clunky and inefficient. Virtually every block of text gets its own render, which is great, but some of the blocks of text are just minuscule in terms of understanding a character or relationship or driving story/plot.

And of course everything where Dylan is the POV is a complete and utter waste of time. I am in no way interested in L&P's version of the inner monologue of an 18-year old, that's what the other 98% of games on this site are for. He's horny? Wow, color me surprised. He's jealous (or not jealous)? I'd rather see the manifestation of jealousy and then the extent to which Sophia recognizes it as jealousy and then her reaction - a more interesting path to explore for certain.

Instead of letting us decide if Dylan gets jealous why not let us decide if Sophia thinks it is jealousy and then how to respond to it. Imagine, the option is for Sophia to provoke Dylan's jealousy by openly flirting with other boys or back off those flirtations and tend to his wounded ego or work with him on opening up to the possibility that there's a way for everyone to get involved in the fun.

Same amount of story/character options with the huge benefit that there's much less time spent in a teenager's head.

But all of this kinda ignores the nagging question. Even if he's making too many renders at too high a quality, does that explain needing 90+ days? If we assume 500 renders over 90 days, that's 5.55 renders a day. Does that seem like a lot? Is this just a bad combination of a guy who is uncompromising and also doesn't put in enough time?

Yes, too many renders taking too much time each does, exactly, explain why 90+ days. This is not a bad combination of uncompromising and not enough time spent, it's the result of a developer who doesn't have someone refining the script before storyboarding and making scenes. Self editing is incredibly difficult because sometimes the line you think is the best is actually the problem.

 

[Talcum Powder]

I really noticed this problem during the sauna scene in the last update. I account for it as 60% language barrier and 40% weak story telling. L&P has a good concept for a story, but he doesn't seem like a natural storyteller and the language barrier makes everything worse.

Yup yup and more yup. I think for me it was the latest shower scene, but yeah.

 

[Deleted member 2183629]

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[GingerSweetGirl]

So Talcum Powder , if you agree that these updates are taking too long, where do you suggest that L&P makes cuts to decrease production time?

 

[Talcum Powder]

So Talcum Powder , if you agree that these updates are taking too long, where do you suggest that L&P makes cuts to decrease production time?

The script should be pored over and heavily scrutinized. I've been playing with an edit to the script that shortens things a bit but I haven't gone into wholesale cuts as of yet. Reason is I'm working in the .rpy script file so drastic changes could cause breaks or put text with the wrong image. If I had a version without all the renpy and python commands it would be smoother sailing.

And, cut everything with Dylan's POV.

 

[Talcum Powder]

I'm not suggesting the whole thing be gutted, I'm just looking at a hypothetical 10-15% reduction in the number of text blocks while getting the same, or nearly the same, amount of information across.