VN Ren'Py A Wife and Mother [v0.201] [Lust & Passion]

[phill_leotardo]

OK, first of all I don't want to diminish the work of others and also don't want to rate it. But you just cannot compare the amount of renders between different games in a certain time span! It's like comparing apples to oranges. Every dev has his own style and own preferences which can take up more or less time. If you say 4000 renders and 100 animations, I'd like to know how many of these 4000 renders are actually part of the animations. I heard his animations should be very good, so I'd guess he uses at least 30 frames per animation at an average. This would mean 3000 renders would flow only into the animations! And what are animations? Exaggerated, it's a hand moving 15 renders front and 15 renders back without changing any tone mapping or other adjustments in that scene. Creating one huge scene with very complex lighting, dforce simulations and many characters can take up the same amount of time like creating 10 animations! Then it also depends on how complex a render is. How many characters are involved? How much you pay attention on the adjustments of every detail? How complex is your lighting? How much time do you spend to enhance the quality afterwards? How much attention do you pay to the poses and expressions? How tolerable are you to little art mistakes? Are there any effects? How much do you work with dforce? How many different places are there? How big are they? How much do you compose the environment yourself? Etc. etc. etc. There are a lot of different things which flow in a render which can varry the time exposure extremely! Of course 4000 renders in 5 months are impressive and the dev is certainly working very hard and also has great renders! But only because a dev created 4000 renders in 5 months and I "only" around 1000, doesn't automatically mean that I work much less!

This arrogance is unparalled. You start your sentence by saying "I don't want to diminish the work of others" assuming you could. Then you proceed to break down the work of somebody you never watched closely to excuse yourself. There is an average of 4 sex animations with details in DPC's game. His lighting is pretty good, awesome setting, very vivid ambient, a lot better story and very immsersive character experience.

And to not argue with your excuses, yes it does means he works more than you. You should be a bit humble and play his game for a bit, see for yourself where you stand behind competition. Your game is pretty much irrelevant these days.

The comparison is pretty valid, two porn games using the same renpy engine and 3D models. I would easily put you on par with Midnight Paradise's developer in a level of competence. You wrote a huge essay to teach people about 3D modeling, but failed to take into consideration that his game has all you're saying but in a way higher level.

Essentially, see how many time DPC had to stop by to whine to staff about ratings threatening to take his game away.

NLT is heading towards their 3rd game and you can barely get out of the first 30% of your only game, cheers.

 

[BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM]

You might want to buckle up for this comment, but we may end up with 1/4 day updates. This is just speculation on my part, but it may happen.

IT could be even 1 event updates as long as the timing was ok.

We've moved from 6months per gameday, to 6 months per half a day, to 6 months per a third of a day so its no suprise that soon we'll be at 6 months per 1/4 of an ingame day, all of it while the conditions mentioned above are getting better.


Regarding DPC and L&P:



DPC always on the rise and L&P just stagnant/going down. The reasons have been talked about extensively in this thread. One of the most famous games in the biggest forum of these kind of games has such subpar support and the dev can't understand that that happens because of the way he's developing this VN, not because of the VN itself.


DPC, in his last patch, has 3700 renders and (plus!) 40 something animations + coding game mechanics + coding freeroam + doing sprites + new cellphone system. It's a whole other league in terms of development.

 

[トルフィン]

Regarding DPC and L&P:
View attachment 1180639
View attachment 1180641

DPC always on the rise and L&P just stagnant/going down. The reasons have been talked about extensively in this thread. One of the most famous games in the biggest forum of these kind of games has such subpar support and the dev can't understand that that happens because of the way he's developing this VN, not because of the VN itself.


DPC, in his last patch, has 3700 renders and (plus!) 40 something animations + coding game mechanics + coding freeroam + doing sprites + new cellphone system. It's a whole other league in terms of development.

Male protagonist and Female protagonist is really different genre why you always compare BADIK and AWAM it really faulty comparison tbh.

 

[LtVincentHanna]

Male protagonist and Female protagonist is really different genre why you always compare BADIK and AWAM it really faulty comparison tbh.

I don't see how the different protagonist gender means they cannot be compared. The two games are very much comparable in their basic premise: main character going through player driven transformations, with a cast of characters that they can get it on with. They are also built using the same game engine and graphics engine.

DPC has made content with infinitely more sexual content, emotional content, and story progression than L&P has.

 

[Talcum Powder]

Male protagonist and Female protagonist is really different genre why you always compare BADIK and AWAM it really faulty comparison tbh.

The lessons learned by the comparison, from my perspective, is that L&P needs to stop dwelling on the minutia and move the story forward. 42 pages of script for the events listed is probably going to be so much pretentious bullshit and very little of actual substance.

 

[トルフィン]

I don't see how the different protagonist gender means they cannot be compared. The two games are very much comparable in their basic premise: main character going through player driven transformations, with a cast of characters that they can get it on with. They are also built using the same game engine and graphics engine.

DPC has made content with infinitely more sexual content, emotional content, and story progression than L&P has.

No you can't it faulty comparison . You can criticize L&P all you want but compare his game to another (genre) is ridiculous.

 

[Bane71]

The lessons learned by the comparison, from my perspective, is that L&P needs to stop dwelling on the minutia and move the story forward. 42 pages of script for the events listed is probably going to be so much pretentious bullshit and very little of actual substance.

Your words in this post are extremely disrespectful to the author of AWAM. You don't decide what is more important to L&P, the details or the promotion of the story.

You absolutize your opinion, do not even admit the idea that there are any other approaches to assessments other than your own.

Damn it, you can't be so blind as not to see and understand that you yourself are what you blame the L&P for.

Create your own project according to the rules that you set L&P or play other games that you like, where the developers are more suited to your requirements. Refuse to use AWAM, but you do not need to impose your own approaches and criteria for evaluating the developer's work.

Just some kind of madness! How do people fail to understand that a linear approach to evaluating efficiency is absolutely inappropriate for the creative process, for creative work!

I have no desire to offend you, but comments like yours personally upset me greatly.

 

[phill_leotardo]

No you can't it faulty comparison . You can criticize L&P all you want but compare his game to another (genre) is ridiculous.

You don't understand business apparently. It's like saying you can't compare Wonder Woman movie with Iron Man because it's different genre, when both are in the same context but different character, same thing here. Absolute bullshit and needs to be stopped right here.

 

[Bishop Robert]

Lets all just relax a little.

 

[Bane71]

I don't see how the different protagonist gender means they cannot be compared. The two games are very much comparable in their basic premise: main character going through player driven transformations, with a cast of characters that they can get it on with. They are also built using the same game engine and graphics engine.

DPC has made content with infinitely more sexual content, emotional content, and story progression than L&P has.

You and I, as users, can compare anything! Different games, different genres, etc. But to present our comparisons to the developer of any other project as a standard for his work, that's what is not allowed.

There is no single, universal measure in creativity! You personally may not like something, do not like the work of one artist, and for others his work will be the best!

That's how I understand it when they say that you don't need to compare.

 

[bluehound36]

I don't see how the different protagonist gender means they cannot be compared. The two games are very much comparable in their basic premise

They're entirely different stories, setting is different, there's no incest in BaDiK, one is family centered while the other is about a college age male's coming of age. It really is comparing apples with oranges which negates the comparison entirely. Add to that DPC's typical writing style is geared more towards tragedy whereas L&P is pure drama.

 

[phill_leotardo]

They're entirely different stories, setting is different, there's no incest in BaDiK, one is family centered while the other is about a college age male's coming of age. It really is comparing apples with oranges which negates the comparison entirely. Add to that DPC's typical writing style is geared more towards tragedy whereas L&P is pure drama.

Imagine the game awards for the best game before the COVID. Hey let's not give God of War for the best game because it's different from Red Dead Redemption 2. One is horsey game and other is angry bald guy. What you just said is bullshit nonetheless. Any project is compared so they can earn awards, which negates your words. Furthermore, we can compare all we want because it's valid and logical, unless you mean to say this game is unique anyhow which isn't true, then there isn't a reason to sustain this arguement.

 

[♩♪♫ ŤЦ尺尺ØЛ ♫♪♩]

all i know is sophia is still young...and yet her pussy is already developing molds and cobwebs...and don't get me started on her ass...

 

[bluehound36]

Imagine the game awards for the best game before the COVID. Hey let's not give God of War for the best game because it's different from Red Dead Redemption 2. One is horsey game and other is angry bald guy. What you just said is bullshit nonetheless. Any project is compared so they can earn awards, which negates your words. Furthermore, we can compare all we want because it's valid and logical, unless you mean to say this game is unique anyhow which isn't true, then there isn't a reason to sustain this arguement.

That would require such comparisons to actually be valid and logical, which so far, you've not made any valid or logical arguments other than you as an individual can compare whatever you want. It's still unsound reasoning though cause you're attempting to compare a tragedy with a romance drama. They are two different genres with multiple differences in regards to setting, characters and themes.

all i know is sophia is still young...and yet her pussy is already developing molds and cobwebs...and don't get me started on her ass...

Said mold and cobwebs will soon be getting dusted out and holes used up (depending on player choices). Probably within the next 2 or 3 updates i'd imagine.

 

[Sabertooth__]

We understand the logic. We understand impatience. We also like some of the suggestions. But we understood that all of this is of no use. You can work your way off here and your outrage, your frustration and despair here until the last day. Sometimes people just want to hug you and say, "Everything will be fine, my child".
L&P sees its problems and its priorities in completely different places. And that's okay. As long as he earns money with it, it is his business how he works. I would do that too!
Couldn't we share the thread here, one in which you continue to "swap" about the "impossible" way of working and the superfluous side arms of the story and one in which it is about the game and its content itself. Just a thought.

If a topic is brought up it is better to be discussed. I ain't a patron so I don't know how things work there, so I raised a question as to how it does work and got my answer. I have long learnt that anything said on this forum definitely does not affect L&P enough to change his way of working. I just wanted to know how it's on patreon

 

[herrzimm1]

Said mold and cobwebs will soon be getting dusted out and holes used up (depending on player choices). Probably within the next 2 or 3 updates i'd imagine.

Only problem is, people were thinking the same thing 2 or 3 updates BACK!

Hate to be the one to pop your bubble on this one. But poor Sophia getting anything used up at this point is more like wishful thinking than actually possible given the current pace of content. It's one of the reasons I haven't given a rat's ass about this game for quite awhile now. So much potential build up is a complete waste of time if there is no "payoff".

 

[BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM]

There's an almost 0 chance this game even reaches the point where Sophia gets on with other person than her husband.

AWAM will eventually be finished by some top tier dude on the fan art page years from now.

 

[phill_leotardo]

That would require such comparisons to actually be valid and logical, which so far, you've not made any valid or logical arguments other than you as an individual can compare whatever you want. It's still unsound reasoning though cause you're attempting to compare a tragedy with a romance drama. They are two different genres with multiple differences in regards to setting, characters and themes.


Said mold and cobwebs will soon be getting dusted out and holes used up (depending on player choices). Probably within the next 2 or 3 updates i'd imagine.

You're in denial. What exactly stops Being A Dik production being quantitatively compared to this game? Have you ever conducted any a GOB type of survey, a research? a game review? Guy legitely compared the amount of renders per release and timespan between the two games. Genre does not matter at all. You're basically saying they cannot be compared because they both aren't a wife and a mother game, which only sounds logical in mars.

I will re-iterate my previous example for you. In terms of quality there's already a current system in place, which is the actual rating system, that already qualifies this game under Being a DIK and has rules in place for every review. The developer of this game has to get them removed in order to sugar coat the appearances of this game, even then it remains below Being a DIK by popular opinion. Therefore, if whatever you said was valid there would be a rule preventing cross themed game evaluation.

Then again, for any kind of rewards such as movie awards and game awards, there are different genre projects such as game and movies are compared in their due category with different themed projects and in their respective events, this is the second argument that breaks your 'no, u' mean-to-say essay.

And to conclude, since you want to go down that road, your argument limits my interest in continuing this conversation with you, I will put it simply.
It can be compared to whatever it is in the games categories in this game community, whether it hurts you or not. This game is loosely drafting away, to the point the developer has more time to fight in this forum than he has to finish a day's worth update.

There is absolutely no reason to continue arguing with people who still defends 'Developer is right, creative desire first, fuck what the players want', type of mentality. I won't even bother replying, have a jolly one!

 

[GingerSweetGirl]

IT could be even 1 event updates as long as the timing was ok.

We've moved from 6months per gameday, to 6 months per half a day, to 6 months per a third of a day so its no suprise that soon we'll be at 6 months per 1/4 of an ingame day, all of it while the conditions mentioned above are getting better.


Regarding DPC and L&P:
View attachment 1180639
View attachment 1180641

DPC always on the rise and L&P just stagnant/going down. The reasons have been talked about extensively in this thread. One of the most famous games in the biggest forum of these kind of games has such subpar support and the dev can't understand that that happens because of the way he's developing this VN, not because of the VN itself.


DPC, in his last patch, has 3700 renders and (plus!) 40 something animations + coding game mechanics + coding freeroam + doing sprites + new cellphone system. It's a whole other league in terms of development.

These numbers are so interesting to me. L&P's stats aren't bad, but they are definitely curious. Let's forget how he compares to other creators (though I think it's totally fair to compare him to DPC), let's just look at how he's doing. I still believe that L&P is busting his ass, even if he isn't working quickly or efficiently. I wish we could overlay the growth of his page/patrons with the number of renders per update. If we could do that, I think we would get a great graph of L&P's diminishing returns. A game of this notoriety shouldn't be so flat. And while growth in 2020 was overall good, the fact that it flatlined in the 2nd half of the year, and has again flat lined in 2021, should be a concern. There's a disconnect between how much time L&P is putting into his updates and how much growth he's seeing from those updates.

 

[Talcum Powder]

No you can't it faulty comparison . You can criticize L&P all you want but compare his game to another (genre) is ridiculous.

Settle down there tiger. I'll stop just short of calling out how genuinely ridiculous your comment is:
Comparing one game to another is the only way you can know how "good" or "not good" a game is. If you don't have a reference point there is no perspective.

It is true that Rocky is not necessarily the most obvious movie to compare to The Adventures of Baron Munchausen. Things they have in common are, they were both shot on film by story tellers who were passionate about the story they were trying to tell; tight budgets (read: limited resources) that forced the creators to be innovative in order to achieve their vision. Otherwise, not much to tie them together.

Now, swap out Terry Gilliam's masterpiece for (the original) Texas Chainsaw Massacre. The commonalities above are still true. But by comparing the two we can determine, objectively, and independently of our own personal preferences for story, theme, pacing, character archetypes, or Philadelphia vs rural Texas, one of those films is exceptional in just about every way except production value while the other is awful in just about every way including production value.