VN Ren'Py A Wife and Mother [v0.201] [Lust & Passion]

[Jack Adams]

That's why I kept wondering why Germany has advanced more than other countries.
The only answer is that there is less corruption, but I would say not by much more than a few percent.

Respectfully, corruption or lack there of has little to do with the advanced posture Germany enjoys. Germany's economic and technological dominance is rooted in two things: mineral advantage and the will of Germany's ancestors to steward that advantage.
Germany enjoys having the purest iron ore in the world, meaning the sulfur and phosphorous percentages are lower than any other ore known. These impurities make iron and steel more brittle and frangible. Having the best steel in the world gave Germany considerable market share and allowed for earlier innovation. It was Germany that invented the first assembly line where raw material entered that line and a finished product emerged from it. Unfortunately, the 100 years war and the bubonic plague ravaged those skilled in manufacture and Henry Ford gets the credit 500 years later.
Germany/Austria invented the stückofen in the 9th century that replaced the beehive oven used since roman times for bloom. It was a German, Georgius Agricola, who researched and wrote De Re Metallica (published in 1556) which standardized manufacturing from mining to finished product. Having the finest materials, methods and standardization produced the highly disciplined machinists, die-makers and research techniques that molded innovation through the 20th century.
This legacy persists today making Germany the technological and economic powerhouse that it currently is.

 

[yihman1]

Now now I knew someone would say this, that's why I said we could train a ML model finetune it much more on the sentences they have already converted in last few years and voila it would be even better than a person translating that!!

Further more think of technology as a enabler if not 100 percent this could still save 80 percent of the time rest 20 he can just go over and correct something if he wants...

I have created numerous products which can even listen to customer care calls, convert them to correct language and understand why the sale wasn't maid etc.. Believe me when I say that today's NLP models can write better stories and idioms than you or at least a porn game creator,now would I says it's intelligent it definitely isn't, but can it come up with better suited idioms than a English PhD holder, it certainly can...

Then again I would stress that technology is a enabler, we should use it to automate as much as we can, even if it's saving 21 days or 10, saving even 5 for every game release is a big plus because at the end it's 45 man hours that's saved...

Machine algorithm's do not translate things better than a human. This is one of a machine's weaknesses.

Machines are incapable of understanding context, tone, sarcasm, ect the same way that a human can.

The day that they can surpass humans is the day we have reached the

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.

Right now there are chess engines that are rated 3700+ and no human has yet reached 2900. They have far surpassed us in chess playing skill. In my pocket I have a cellphone that could defeat the world chess champion. Do you know what that chess engine can not do? It can not put into simple English terms why it has made a move that is has made. A human Grand Master could easily do that.

There is millions of dollars in chess. A lot of computer programming too. Why are none of those super powered engines capable of explaining the reason behind a simple move? Surely there is much incentive in the chess community to make engines capable of explaining the moves for you to be better teachers. If someone made such a talkative engine that gave good explanations surely it would sell for plenty of money.

Do you know how the computer would explain it if it had the ability to do so? "The one number was bigger than the other number when I ran my evaluation function. I prefer favorable numbers."

Machines don't understand why they do what they do. They are just programmed to do so. They can not comprehend what they are doing the way a human can. They are oblivious and completely unaware.

If you were not so full of shit that your eyes have literally turned brown I would be absolutely terrified of these sentient machines you are speaking of. However, I know better.

Neuro-linguistic programming is no match for an actual human. You are babbling on about pseudo science because the resources needed to make such a thing reality would require

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to process it.

In fifty years we may be there, but we are not there yet and nowhere close to there.

 

[GingerSweetGirl]

Arguing about the length of time it takes to translate and localize AWAM misses the point. While I agree yihman1 that there's a lot more to localization than a computer can provide, it doesn't really matter when the rendering and illustrating is taking 5 months. After 5 months, who cares if translation take 10 days or 20? Even if L&P got the process down to 5 days, and it was flawless, there are bigger problems to worry about. It would be like arguing over fixing a leaky faucet in your bathroom. Yeah, sure, it's important, but meanwhile the roof is on fire. Let's prioritize the roof first.

 

[JorellMartis]

Machine algorithm's do not translate things better than a human. This is one of a machine's weaknesses.

Machines are incapable of understanding context, tone, sarcasm, ect the same way that a human can.

The day that they can surpass humans is the day we have reached the

You must be registered to see the links

.

Right now there are chess engines that are rated 3700+ and no human has yet reached 2900. They have far surpassed us in chess playing skill. In my pocket I have a cellphone that could defeat the world chess champion. Do you know what that chess engine can not do? It can not put into simple English terms why it has made a move that is has made. A human Grand Master could easily do that.

There is millions of dollars in chess. A lot of computer programming too. Why are none of those super powered engines capable of explaining the reason behind a simple move? Surely there is much incentive in the chess community to make engines capable of explaining the moves for you to be better teachers. If someone made such a talkative engine that gave good explanations surely it would sell for plenty of money.

Do you know how the computer would explain it if it had the ability to do so? "The one number was bigger than the other number when I ran my evaluation function. I prefer favorable numbers."

Machines don't understand why they do what they do. They are just programmed to do so. They can not comprehend what they are doing the way a human can. They are oblivious and completely unaware.

If you were not so full of shit that your eyes have literally turned brown I would be absolutely terrified of these sentient machines you are speaking of. However, I know better.

Neuro-linguistic programming is no match for an actual human. You are babbling on about pseudo science because the resources needed to make such a thing reality would require

You must be registered to see the links

to process it.

In fifty years we may be there, but we are not there yet and nowhere close to there.

Just send us a text file containing the dialogues.

 

[darji]

Respectfully, corruption or lack there of has little to do with the advanced posture Germany enjoys. Germany's economic and technological dominance is rooted in two things: mineral advantage and the will of Germany's ancestors to steward that advantage.
Germany enjoys having the purest iron ore in the world, meaning the sulfur and phosphorous percentages are lower than any other ore known. These impurities make iron and steel more brittle and frangible. Having the best steel in the world gave Germany considerable market share and allowed for earlier innovation. It was Germany that invented the first assembly line where raw material entered that line and a finished product emerged from it. Unfortunately, the 100 years war and the bubonic plague ravaged those skilled in manufacture and Henry Ford gets the credit 500 years later.
Germany/Austria invented the stückofen in the 9th century that replaced the beehive oven used since roman times for bloom. It was a German, Georgius Agricola, who researched and wrote De Re Metallica (published in 1556) which standardized manufacturing from mining to finished product. Having the finest materials, methods and standardization produced the highly disciplined machinists, die-makers and research techniques that molded innovation through the 20th century.
This legacy persists today making Germany the technological and economic powerhouse that it currently is.

And while this was the case it is not reality anymore. Right now we get Steel from china and then use it for other productions because it has been way cheaper to import it From China than create it here. since the energie costs going through the roof. Germany's buble is soon to burst. We pay already the highest engergie costs in the World. Basically more than 50% of wage goes down for Taxes direcect and indirect like Sales tax etc. We are getting outclassed in many points these days it is ridiculous.

I wonder how long this can still last. But as fun this is I think we wennt way of topic for a porn game XD

But for translating: Translating from German to other languages is set with many difficulties grammarwise. We have so many exceptions and grammar differences compared to english or other languages. I do not think it is as easy as some people think it is.

Personally I would not even write in German but rather compete in English. This would probably be easier for him and timewise.

 

[momojean]

If you had the finished German text you could pop that into google translate chunk by chunk, and get it translated very quickly using a simple copy and paste strategy. However, it would be noticeably a machine translation. Machines will not translate it as well as a human. Instead I think humans translate it word by word (alongside a machine translation if they didn't understand a word), and then polish it up nicely to appear more fluent in English, and they do a good job at that.

I think more than just "Translation" is happening right now.
They say "Programming" as well on the chart, but again more than programming and translation are happening now.

I think writing is actually happening right now as well. L&P Must be writing something, then his translator(s) must rewrite something... piece by piece. Writing at good quality can take a long time and everything needs to be written twice. Once by L&P and then a 2nd time by a translator.

Idioms change from language to language... So if a character says "It is like comparing apples to oranges." There is no direct saying for that in German. The closest would be "Comparing apples to pears".

That's an easy one... If it said: "To see radishes from below" you would need to understand that this means "Pushing up daises"... Sometimes you will get stuff like "Fat Head" getting translated and you would be like what the fuck does that mean? That just means a "Hangover"... When someone says "Hold your thumb!" they don't mean that... They mean "Cross your fingers!" When someone says "It's a sausage to me." They aren't talking about a sausage... they meant to say "It's all the same to me."

These "Literal Translations" are what needs to get smoothed out to fit English fluency.

Quality control processes take time. Sometimes you need to find just the right words for the job, and try to change the meaning as little as possible.

Could the process be sped up in some ways? Perhaps, but quality may suffer.

Then you gotta remember they are putting together 2 versions of the game not just 1. One is the Patreon safe one, and the other is the one with incest. So they are working on 2 games at the same time one game being a nerfed version of the other.

Then you need to do some bug testing and uploads.

So if they gave literal translation of "Programming & Translation" they would probably call it: "Writing, translating, rewriting, programming, bug testing and uploading" Which is more than just program / translate.

Ok, let's put everything you just said there aside. L&P himself stated he can translate 2-2.5 pages a day. He was talking about translation and nothing else. Don't you find this daily average ridiculous?

And then you don't think he could have put forward the explanation you just related himself if it was the case?

Do you really need to rack your brains and come up with statements that even L&P didn't have the ingenuity to invent to defend himself?

 

[yihman1]

Ok, let's put everything you just said there aside. L&P himself stated he can translate 2-2.5 pages a day. He was talking about translation and nothing else. Don't you find this daily average ridiculous?

And then you don't think he could have put forward the explanation you just related himself if it was the case?

Do you really need to rack your brains and come up with statements that even L&P didn't have the ingenuity to invent to defend himself?

I would rather things be done better than done quicker.

Do you want a steak tomorrow or hamburger today?

 

[nexer]

Respectfully, corruption or lack there of has little to do with the advanced posture Germany enjoys. Germany's economic and technological dominance is rooted in two things: mineral advantage and the will of Germany's ancestors to steward that advantage.
Germany enjoys having the purest iron ore in the world, meaning the sulfur and phosphorous percentages are lower than any other ore known. These impurities make iron and steel more brittle and frangible. Having the best steel in the world gave Germany considerable market share and allowed for earlier innovation. It was Germany that invented the first assembly line where raw material entered that line and a finished product emerged from it. Unfortunately, the 100 years war and the bubonic plague ravaged those skilled in manufacture and Henry Ford gets the credit 500 years later.
Germany/Austria invented the stückofen in the 9th century that replaced the beehive oven used since roman times for bloom. It was a German, Georgius Agricola, who researched and wrote De Re Metallica (published in 1556) which standardized manufacturing from mining to finished product. Having the finest materials, methods and standardization produced the highly disciplined machinists, die-makers and research techniques that molded innovation through the 20th century.
This legacy persists today making Germany the technological and economic powerhouse that it currently is.

Oh man, that is history.
Their neighbours went out to conquer, and Germany used what they had. In the long run this gave them this technical advantage but I don't think it was a choice.
The envy that the Netherlands, France, Spain caused them with their conquests must have been enormous
As for the purity of German iron ore deposits, I haven't heard, processing techniques are important. I have studied the iron-carbon diagram.

 

[momojean]

I would rather things be done better than done quicker.

Do you want a steak tomorrow or hamburger today?

Of course I'll choose the steak tomorrow.
Except that here we are talking about L&P and its 40 years of development at the current pace. And in this case your sentence loses all its meaning and becomes : "Do you want a steak next year or hamburger today". And in this case it's obvious that anyone will choose a Hamburger today.

 

[GingerSweetGirl]

Ok, let's put everything you just said there aside. L&P himself stated he can translate 2-2.5 pages a day. He was talking about translation and nothing else. Don't you find this daily average ridiculous?

And then you don't think he could have put forward the explanation you just related himself if it was the case?

Do you really need to rack your brains and come up with statements that even L&P didn't have the ingenuity to invent to defend himself?

I wouldn't take L&P's lack of a comment as proof of anything. The guy hates explaining himself to anyone, even if it would help him. Some of that is the language barrier, and the rest is stubbornness. Personally, I've always assumed that when he talked about "translation" he means that to include localization, so I'm not shocked when it takes time. Does it make sense why it takes so much time? No. But throwing everything into an online translator would cause different problems. One of the things I like best about this game is the lack of Engrish. And while it hasn't always been perfect, I would be very frustrated to see the script devolve into a mess of syntax and grammatical errors.

 

[Try My Patience or Not]

The earth has endless oil and the United States has endless money to print

My view on oil is, the sooner we use it up, the sooner it will cease to be a problem.

 

[momojean]

I would rather things be done better than done quicker.

Do you want a steak tomorrow or hamburger today?

And don't you think there's a subtle middle ground between better and quicker that L&P needs to embrace quickly if he ever wants to complete this project?

 

[yihman1]

Of course I'll choose the steak tomorrow.
Except that here we are talking about L&P and its 40 years of development at the current pace. And in this case your sentence loses all its meaning and becomes : "Do you want a steak next year or hamburger today". And in this case it's obvious that anyone will choose a Hamburger today.

It's about 1/3 done. He has been working on it for about 4.5 years. At current pace it is 9 years until completion not 40.

And don't you think there's a subtle middle ground between better and quicker that L&P needs to embrace quickly if he ever wants to complete this project?

Game development is not a sprint. It is a marathon.

You see there are 3 competing forces when you are in game production.

1) Quantity: How big is an update?
2) Rate: How fast between updates?
3) Quality: How much thought and extra effort goes into making the update great?

If you increase quantity then either rate or quality will suffer.
If you increase rate then either quality or quantity will suffer.
If you increase quality then either rate or quantity will suffer.

As a developer you must always make choices about this. You are going to need to give something to get something. It's impossible to have rapid update of huge quantity with great quality. At least one other area will suffer when you push in any one direction.

 

[momojean]

I wouldn't take L&P's lack of a comment as proof of anything. The guy hates explaining himself to anyone, even if it would help him. Some of that is the language barrier, and the rest is stubbornness. Personally, I've always assumed that when he talked about "translation" he means that to include localization, so I'm not shocked when it takes time. Does it make sense why it takes so much time? No. But throwing everything into an online translator would cause different problems. One of the things I like best about this game is the lack of Engrish. And while it hasn't always been perfect, I would be very frustrated to see the script devolve into a mess of syntax and grammatical errors.

Personally, for more than 4 years following this game and with all the attitudes that L&P has shown, my doubts go far beyond the simple lack of communication or stubbornness. I think of much less innocent things.

 

[momojean]

It's about 1/3 done. He has been working on it for about 4.5 years. At current pace it is 9 years until completion not 40.



Game development is not a sprint. It is a marathon.

You see there are 3 competing forces when you are in game production.

1) Quantity: How big is an update?
2) Rate: How fast between updates?
3) Quality: How much thought and extra effort goes into making the update great?

If you increase quantity then either rate or quality will suffer.
If you increase rate then either quality or quantity will suffer.
If you increase quality then either rate or quantity will suffer.

As a developer you must always make choices about this. You are going to need to give something to get something. It's impossible to have rapid update of huge quantity with great quality. At least one other area will suffer when you push in any one direction.

It's funny! This game is really stuck between these two extreme alternatives. Last 40 years or produce a shit game? Each of the two is worse than the other.
But fortunately we have plenty of games out there that last just 3 or 4 years and they are very interesting too. He only has to follow their example to get out of the mess where he plunged his game.

 

[dolfe67]

I see L&P hired a new PR guy on this forum

 

[yihman1]

I see L&P hired a new PR guy on this forum

 

[t3alqdansam]

I would rather things be done better than done quicker.

Do you want a steak tomorrow or hamburger today?

Depends on the steak vice the burger. I don't need Lord Salisbury's steak or a round steak if I can get a 1 pound Angus beef burger perfectly cooked. Granted A New York Strip or Filet Mignon is preferable. But in my mind, he is bringing anything he cooks in 'Well Done', if we are lucky. Yuck! Medium rare FTW.

 

[bayrischman]

I would rather things be done better than done quicker.

Do you want a steak tomorrow or hamburger today?

It's about 1/3 done. He has been working on it for about 4.5 years. At current pace it is 9 years until completion not 40.



Game development is not a sprint. It is a marathon.

You see there are 3 competing forces when you are in game production.

1) Quantity: How big is an update?
2) Rate: How fast between updates?
3) Quality: How much thought and extra effort goes into making the update great?

If you increase quantity then either rate or quality will suffer.
If you increase rate then either quality or quantity will suffer.
If you increase quality then either rate or quantity will suffer.

As a developer you must always make choices about this. You are going to need to give something to get something. It's impossible to have rapid update of huge quantity with great quality. At least one other area will suffer when you push in any one direction.

the same defense as sabertooth you are both one and the same.

 

[t3alqdansam]

It's about 1/3 done. He has been working on it for about 4.5 years. At current pace it is 9 years until completion not 40.



Game development is not a sprint. It is a marathon.

You see there are 3 competing forces when you are in game production.

1) Quantity: How big is an update?
2) Rate: How fast between updates?
3) Quality: How much thought and extra effort goes into making the update great?

If you increase quantity then either rate or quality will suffer.
If you increase rate then either quality or quantity will suffer.
If you increase quality then either rate or quantity will suffer.

As a developer you must always make choices about this. You are going to need to give something to get something. It's impossible to have rapid update of huge quantity with great quality. At least one other area will suffer when you push in any one direction.

Your mathematics are faulty. At current rate we are looking at 1 PD per 2.5 years +. Times 18 PDs and the result is 45 years. If he can get production to 3- 4 PDs per year then we are going to see the possibility of completion. Yeah, ain't holding my breath. He has never reduced his PD rate.