Ren'Py Abandoned Amity Park [v0.9.6] [GZone]

[Ratnedalu]

Ya, I don't understand this. Why start work on a second game when your first game is already lacking content. Now with two games being developed it will take even longer for either one of them to have content. Why spread yourselves thinner by starting a second game when you haven't even made much progression in your first game? Now we're just going to get another game with no content and have to wait a long time for it to have any, and have to wait even longer for this game to get content.

I understand it perfectly. I tend to like to bounce between different projects of my own, but none of them are publicised anymore. One does get bored working on the same thing for a long amount of time. Burns you out.

HOWEVER, that tends to be a reckless thing to do when people are paying you to do one specific thing. Its one thing to switch between multiple projects like I do, or used to, because I have no professional expectations. He does, and he shouldn't just divert his attention to something else to satisfy himself, when he's being paid (technically donated, but there's still an unspoken understanding there) to do the first. He can make that choice, but it's not liable to work well.

I understand this is one patreon team, but if you'd notice most companies, and probably most teams like these, have one project per team.
If the gent doing this takes as much time with 5 people as he did when he worked alone, there's somethin wonky with his resource management.

 

[Morah SDG]

Personally I would appreciate pushing ahead the main plot so you have a proper outline of the story you want to narrate, you've got the workings for the map and quest system basically done already so so you could get that much out of the way. I'm not that well-versed on Ren'py though so what do I know. When that's done, you can focus more spaced out updates on the specific characters. Larger content additions but focused solely on one or two people. You can always do this stuff and lock it off until you release relevant character updates.
The main meat of a game like this is the interactions with the romance options, not the overall story, I'm certain you know this, and since it feels to me like you're going, at least on the main plot, for something similar to the original show you can make a rough outline using that and pluck notes here and there for stuff to happen with them. Writing this can't possibly be that hard, you don't have original characters to worry about or Patreon-guided plot threads, you've got set personalities and events you don't have to come up with yourself.
If you go that route you make a popularity poll and go off those numbers to push the individual plots of each character in that order. Sorta like A Town Uncovered is trying to do but you guys don't seem like [REDACTED] so I'm certain you can work something out and be smart about it. Get easy stuff covered first, then when you have a skeleton to plug these things in you can do the harder stuff, like the combat*, puzzles that lead to plot points or finish flag searches, etc. As far as what "enough content" is there's no solid answer, this is a VN so at the very least some sex scenes with each romance option and a resolution at the end of the plot you're going for, interactions between the romance options totally optional. I'm easy to please in that regard.
A good example for a finished product would be something like Insexual Awakening, I don't like to compare games but that game was very good and was paced and structured very well. Fairly short but it had decent mini-games, good art which you guys also have and 6 romance options with a few scenes each + some together, plus 2 extra characters that just gave you scenes for talking to them. (Like that nurse.) Amity Park is a lot more linear than that game though, right now anyway in that one you could do whatever all the time but in Amity Park since it's more story-driven with the chapters being task-based you don't have to worry too much about player choices really except for dialogue.

Just my take. I ramble a lot, and I haven't slept in 2 days so this is probably all completely fucked but I hope it's as legible as some of it was in my head.

*Also as a personal point the combat feels totally unnecessary since it's so barebones and RNG based. You also can't tell when you're meant to win or lose because they all feel or seem the same.
Edit: Holy shit that's a lot of rambling. Oops.

Get some sleep mate. Thanks for the lengthy input.

 

[SomeDamnedDude]

1- Commissioning a bunch of art and pasting it into a VN engine doesn't take galaxy brain levels of manpower. They have "a team" of people allegedly working on this and their hat whenever they can and they're making undisclosed amounts of money and have been for 2 years with nearly no progress, that is at least very questionable. You're not working 7 days a week or 24 hours a day, that'd be illegal, you're also not using your Patreon money to travel and complain like Kuja is so what's the hold-up? Hell, Legend of Krystal: Rebirth is at least slightly more complex.

2- I'm not a public entity developing a game solely on good intentions and vague promises so I don't have any incentive to have a number up showing how much money I make a month. I'm a private citizen with a job. Were I making a living off donations I'd at least want to disclose that monthly average. However that's not the case here, you said it yourself they have jobs, this is not their main/only source of income and they made the choice to hide that on their Patreon page, that's an option you have that you don't have to tick, so I dunno, I'm just throwing ideas out. I'm a natural cynic.

3- Were I part of a group of people working together and recognised as some sort of development team that only makes money off free donations I would be inclined to at least show that number for transparency's sake, if not also the way it's spent like a lot of donation-driven entities do for the sake of transparency. Crowdfunding is essentially charity, and a charity with hidden numbers isn't a good charity. Lastly, I didn't ask to show me their IRS forms either, in fact I didn't ask for anything, I said it was a red flag that they were hiding it when even commission artists and twitch thots don't.


I sure hope so, just shows a clear lack of vision or direction if you're having so much trouble to begin with but pile on more for what I can only assume is just for the sake of it. You do you, at the end of the day my word is inconsequential. You already have an established userbase so you're not gonna be losing out on that monthly average any time soon, that's just how Patreon works. You already made it, sit on it if you want.

Wordy, but all three of your numbered premises are wrong and they all come back to one thing, you are railing that money sourced to the developer via Patreon should be on full public display. I understand from your harping about it that you feel very strongly about it, that doesn't make your opinion of "how things should work" any more valid than their opinion of "how things should work". On this point there is a simple remedy, do not contribute if it bothers you that much, no one is making you do so.

You seem to be thinking of Patreon as "charity" and that "charity" should have transparency. It is not charity, it is people paying other people to incentivize them to produce and continue to add content to a game that ends up on here for free, unlike retail where you pay a set price all up front for a game, then go back a year or more later and pay a set price all up front for its sequel, here you pay a little each month and the developers aren't tying up their own money (or time as the case may be) to produce the game all at once.

It is great to see that you are giving some very constructive criticism , it just seems that your are hung up about the money side of things and that isn't going to help anyone.


There is absolutely no malice in these statements, it is just my response to your opinion, make of it what you will.

Cheers!!

 

[Detective Cancer]

Wordy, but all three of your numbered premises are wrong and they all come back to one thing, you are railing that money sourced to the developer via Patreon should be on full public display. I understand from your harping about it that you feel very strongly about it, that doesn't make your opinion of "how things should work" any more valid than their opinion of "how things should work". On this point there is a simple remedy, do not contribute if it bothers you that much, no one is making you do so.

You seem to be thinking of Patreon as "charity" and that "charity" should have transparency. It is not charity, it is people paying other people to incentivize them to produce and continue to add content to a game that ends up on here for free, unlike retail where you pay a set price all up front for a game, then go back a year or more later and pay a set price all up front for its sequel, here you pay a little each month and the developers aren't tying up their own money (or time as the case may be) to produce the game all at once.

It is great to see that you are giving some very constructive criticism , it just seems that your are hung up about the money side of things and that isn't going to help anyone.


There is absolutely no malice in these statements, it is just my response to your opinion, make of it what you will.

Cheers!!

1. Not contributing*, wouldn't even if I wasn't already extremely jaded about Patreon unless they had some promising direction. I'm "railing" on that main red flag but there's others that make the project a mess. From unmet promises to this new game they've begun despite already not having enough time to barely work on one with 5 people. Money's the lifeblood of any development project so if that money's being mismanaged the project's bound to fail and this one's already stalling. Doesn't have to be money either, money's one resources but there's time and effort being wasted too. You could apply most of my statements to time, they're split between two projects now when they can't even update a single one reliably.
2. I didn't say it was charity, I said it was like charity but you can ignore that entirely if you want to, it doesn't have to be charity. When you donate to anything you want to know these things, especially for crowdfunding games. Hiding them just makes the project look shady, you don't need spending details either just how much it makes which is a default option on Patreon. The clear assumption to make is that they've toggled this option off (again the default is ON) because if people see they're making good money they won't be as inclined to donate. What I'm "railing" on is literally the most important thing about this entire situation because Patreon has no other purpose than to serve as a charity.

*-inb4 the inevitable "if u dont give dem money u sholdnt talk abut em" -- It's a free game, advertised as free with delays for non-patrons. Gatekeeping criticism is stupid.

 

[SomeDamnedDude]

1. Not contributing*, wouldn't even if I wasn't already extremely jaded about Patreon unless they had some promising direction. I'm "railing" on that main red flag but there's others that make the project a mess. From unmet promises to this new game they've begun despite already not having enough time to barely work on one with 5 people. Money's the lifeblood of any development project so if that money's being mismanaged the project's bound to fail and this one's already stalling. Doesn't have to be money either, money's one resources but there's time and effort being wasted too. You could apply most of my statements to time, they're split between two projects now when they can't even update a single one reliably.
2. I didn't say it was charity, I said it was like charity but you can ignore that entirely if you want to, it doesn't have to be charity. When you donate to anything you want to know these things, especially for crowdfunding games. Hiding them just makes the project look shady, you don't need spending details either just how much it makes which is a default option on Patreon. The clear assumption to make is that they've toggled this option off (again the default is ON) because if people see they're making good money they won't be as inclined to donate. What I'm "railing" on is literally the most important thing about this entire situation because Patreon has no other purpose than to serve as a charity.

*-inb4 the inevitable "if u dont give dem money u sholdnt talk abut em" -- It's a free game, advertised as free with delays for non-patrons. Gatekeeping criticism is stupid.

Are you actively working with the team?

How would you know if there is any mismanagement, money, time or otherwise if you are not?

There are other examples of developers running more than one project to try to avoid burn-out on a single project.

There are examples of developers starting other projects from running afoul of Patreon's rules to maintain an income stream.

Just chill a bit.

Cheers!!

 

[satoshy12]

is there a mod for the game with extra thinks or cheat mod??? When not can some one do it??

 

[SomeDamnedDude]

is there a mod for the game with extra thinks or cheat mod??? When not can some one do it??

The cheat mod is built in to the game, READ the OP for the details.

Cheers!!

 

[satoshy12]

The cheat mod is built in to the game, READ the OP for the details.

Cheers!!

But not extra scene or thinks like that

 

[Detective Cancer]

Are you actively working with the team?

How would you know if there is any mismanagement, money, time or otherwise if you are not?

There are other examples of developers running more than one project to try to avoid burn-out on a single project.

There are examples of developers starting other projects from running afoul of Patreon's rules to maintain an income stream.

Just chill a bit.

Cheers!!

I like vague statements. Blindly white-knighting will get you nowhere, though, regardless of how passive you want to make yourself seem. Yes, other developers have multiple projects to avoid burn-out but a team already scrambling without progress on a single project for nearly two years shouldn't start a second one but even if they do that's not the point. Just because I'm not working with them doesn't mean I'm not aware of the environment around a project like this and just like you I can use examples of other projects except I have solid evidence to counter your vague defences.

Simply put: Something like this has taken almost 2 years with a very distinct lack of content or progress while 5 people are allegedly working on it whenever they can. Since that's the case, AT THE VERY LEAST there's time being mismanaged while 650 people are supporting the project currently. For some perspective Insexual Awakening started development in September of 2017, released to 1.0 in May 5th, and is now adding mod support, while the team is working on a new game. It has a ton of content, some decent writing, a few mini-games and other features that really weren't necessary but still made it in.

This game has taken that long to even get off the ground with 5 people on a team. Do you really want to make the argument that something isn't being mismanaged and it's impossible to see from the outside looking in? I should add as a side note that The Sex Curse Studio Patreon only has 291 supporters and that they have their average Patreon income public like everyone else without something to hide does.

 

[Ratnedalu]

[QUOTE="Omega1084, post: 2211560, member: 849529"

This game has taken that long to even get off the ground with 5 people on a team. Do you really want to make the argument that something isn't being mismanaged and it's impossible to see from the outside looking in? I should add as a side note that The Sex Curse Studio Patreon only has 291 supporters and that they have their average Patreon income public like everyone else without something to hide does.
[/QUOTE]

Everybody but this team and Team Borsch. Even Sad Crab, who has a bad rap like Borsch and Gzone has their income listed.

 

[barbod67]

I like vague statements. Blindly white-knighting will get you nowhere, though, regardless of how passive you want to make yourself seem. Yes, other developers have multiple projects to avoid burn-out but a team already scrambling without progress on a single project for nearly two years shouldn't start a second one but even if they do that's not the point. Just because I'm not working with them doesn't mean I'm not aware of the environment around a project like this and just like you I can use examples of other projects except I have solid evidence to counter your vague defences.

Simply put: Something like this has taken almost 2 years with a very distinct lack of content or progress while 5 people are allegedly working on it whenever they can. Since that's the case, AT THE VERY LEAST there's time being mismanaged while 650 people are supporting the project currently. For some perspective Insexual Awakening started development in September of 2017, released to 1.0 in May 5th, and is now adding mod support, while the team is working on a new game. It has a ton of content, some decent writing, a few mini-games and other features that really weren't necessary but still made it in.

This game has taken that long to even get off the ground with 5 people on a team. Do you really want to make the argument that something isn't being mismanaged and it's impossible to see from the outside looking in? I should add as a side note that The Sex Curse Studio Patreon only has 291 supporters and that they have their average Patreon income public like everyone else without something to hide does.

Just curious, what do you think the frequency of updates should be, since you seem to have some kind of universal standard that apply to every single game? As for your point about Insexual Awakening: yes different teams work at different speeds, glad we could come to that conclusion.

 

[SomeDamnedDude]

I like vague statements. Blindly white-knighting will get you nowhere, though, regardless of how passive you want to make yourself seem. Yes, other developers have multiple projects to avoid burn-out but a team already scrambling without progress on a single project for nearly two years shouldn't start a second one but even if they do that's not the point. Just because I'm not working with them doesn't mean I'm not aware of the environment around a project like this and just like you I can use examples of other projects except I have solid evidence to counter your vague defences.

Simply put: Something like this has taken almost 2 years with a very distinct lack of content or progress while 5 people are allegedly working on it whenever they can. Since that's the case, AT THE VERY LEAST there's time being mismanaged while 650 people are supporting the project currently. For some perspective Insexual Awakening started development in September of 2017, released to 1.0 in May 5th, and is now adding mod support, while the team is working on a new game. It has a ton of content, some decent writing, a few mini-games and other features that really weren't necessary but still made it in.

This game has taken that long to even get off the ground with 5 people on a team. Do you really want to make the argument that something isn't being mismanaged and it's impossible to see from the outside looking in? I should add as a side note that The Sex Curse Studio Patreon only has 291 supporters and that they have their average Patreon income public like everyone else without something to hide does.

In my experience on this earth, I haven't seen an example of brow beating someone whom you do not hold some sort of power over (think, you are their actual "pay the bills" employer) actually improve performance.

You can call them vague statements, they were open ended statements meant to give you pause and let you think what, exactly you think your posts are going / supposed to accomplish.

You can belittle me, my statements, the developer, even other people who follow the game. It is not going to change what the development team is capable of / going to accomplish in the near term. Probably not in the long run either.

Post all the stats, examples and anecdotes you wish. Tell everyone how much more you know than them.

Why don't you just whip up a competing game and show us how you would do it, go get yourself setup with a Patreon account and shoot for the moon (don't forget to leave everything public so we can follow your progress). We could always use another game.

All of this again is very tongue in cheek.
Chill, there are plenty of other games, try a few that are new to you.

Cheers!!

 

[Morah SDG]

In my experience on this earth, I haven't seen an example of brow beating someone whom you do not hold some sort of power over (think, you are their actual "pay the bills" employer) actually improve performance.

You can call them vague statements, they were open ended statements meant to give you pause and let you think what, exactly you think your posts are going / supposed to accomplish.

You can belittle me, my statements, the developer, even other people who follow the game. It is not going to change what the development team is capable of / going to accomplish in the near term. Probably not in the long run either.

Post all the stats, examples and anecdotes you wish. Tell everyone how much more you know than them.

Why don't you just whip up a competing game and show us how you would do it, go get yourself setup with a Patreon account and shoot for the moon (don't forget to leave everything public so we can follow your progress). We could always use another game.

All of this again is very tongue in cheek.
Chill, there are plenty of other games, try a few that are new to you.

Cheers!!

I whole heartedly agree with the notion of trying other games and putting your dollars elsewhere if one already providing money or thinking about doing so so chooses. There are so many great games being made in this industry at the moment. So many options to choose from, and it's great to me that nobody has to be relegated to only one or two games to enjoy!

 

[ilikemomsonincest]

My only question is this, how much more stuff, if you're a person interested in this type of game I must assume for this question, would you say would be enough to be considered "content." Because I agree that there are FAR more things I'd like to help do with AP, but is there a specific something that you guys are interested in us doing more of? Genuinely curious, and I can understand the confusion as to why we might do this if we're already taking time to produce this content. Thanks.

Well pretty much people want full on sex with the main girls, this is a porn game after all. The progression of the story and character routes are coming along nicely I think, but at the same time with the way it's progressing it's going to be a while before they reach that point (which is fine and the way I prefer it because the build-up leading to the payoff is always the most exciting part of these games). But I feel like you should at least get to the pay-off before you decide to start another game. Obviously you guys can do whatever you want and I'm sure your new game will be good as well, but it's just disappointing as a fan of your games the updates will be even fewer and farther between with a second game being worked on.

 

[Morah SDG]

Well pretty much people want full on sex with the main girls, this is a porn game after all. The progression of the story and character routes are coming along nicely I think, but at the same time with the way it's progressing it's going to be a while before they reach that point (which is fine and the way I prefer it because the build-up leading to the payoff is always the most exciting part of these games). But I feel like you should at least get to the pay-off before you decide to start another game. Obviously you guys can do whatever you want and I'm sure your new game will be good as well, but it's just disappointing as a fan of your games the updates will be even fewer and farther between with a second game being worked on.

Totally understand. I really do think the worst part of this recent update was having the storyline take place in 15 BRAND new environments. All that stuff had to be brand new. I think with the episode 7, the ember update should be more contained to take place in Amity and use already created assets. Along with the amount of lining and coloring GZone planned for the animations for Ep. 6.

 

[Detective Cancer]

Just curious, what do you think the frequency of updates should be, since you seem to have some kind of universal standard that apply to every single game? As for your point about Insexual Awakening: yes different teams work at different speeds, glad we could come to that conclusion.

Depending on the type of game monthly updates should be fairly easy. Ren'py is one of if not the most accessible engine to make games on and work with, that Insexual Awakening was finished in the time this team's done nothing was just one of several examples I could use. Because Insexual awakening is so simple it's easy to compare it to this game, and that one had monthly updates, consistently, with more than one update a month for bug fixes. With all that said however you're right. Some teams work, and some don't.

Why don't you just whip up a competing game and show us how you would do it, go get yourself setup with a Patreon account and shoot for the moon (don't forget to leave everything public so we can follow your progress). We could always use another game.

I have a shred of dignity left in me so I can't in good conscience start a Patreon project I'll stall for 2 years without progress so I can make money off nothing but hopes and dreams. You bet if I did start one though that I wouldn't hide something not even the worst people on Patreon hide. I'm glad it's something you can just brush under a rug and ignore though, I wish I was naive. It's a shame if nothing else that I'm just not gonna see this game make real progress any time soon. You are right though, like the other person. Some people have trouble with different things, work ethics and gratitude don't come around often enough in the presence of free money.

 

[TeeEight]

What happens if you let your mom get fucked by the ghost? Like what changes? I know it unlocked a gallary image and I don't get a level up...

 

[Morah SDG]

What happens if you let your mom get fucked by the ghost? Like what changes? I know it unlocked a gallary image and I don't get a level up...

As of now, nothing story wise, although I'd love to go back and actually give the currently provided options and routes some consequences and effects.

 

[vnqats]

Depending on the type of game monthly updates should be fairly easy. Ren'py is one of if not the most accessible engine to make games on and work with, that Insexual Awakening was finished in the time this team's done nothing was just one of several examples I could use. Because Insexual awakening is so simple it's easy to compare it to this game, and that one had monthly updates, consistently, with more than one update a month for bug fixes. With all that said however you're right. Some teams work, and some don't.

Different amounts of money go a very different distance in different places. The upside of the recent popularity of patreon is a lot of developers in third-world countries can work full-time for relatively small amounts of money, but the downside is lots of games have at minimum broken English and often poor-quality art and/or writing as well. The beauty of patreon is it also means that if people feel like a developer doesn't deserve their money they can just stop subscribing. In this case, I assume the devs are fluent English speakers which means there is no way they can afford to work on this project full time at the number of subs they have. I for one don't mind getting a game with high quality art which is written by someone whose first language is English and who puts at least a bit of effort into the dialogue, and even if I was bothered by the updates... it's not like I'm a patron.

Take it from someone who's followed this scene since long before popular platforms like RenPy and payment mediums like Patreon existed, back when games were clunky and released infrequently and done 100% by hobbyists: it might help your sanity to only check games for updates every year or so. I'm rarely even close to up-to-date to the public versions of most games let alone the patreon versions, so whenever I remember to check a game again it's either abandoned (which is sad but it happens) or there's tons of new content available (which is nice). There are so many games available legally for free that even if you do literally nothing other than f95/eat/sleep you'll be entertained for a long time.

 

[Detective Cancer]

In this case, I assume the devs are fluent English speakers which means there is no way they can afford to work on this project full time at the number of subs they have.

I didn't wanna reply to this again but Insexual Awakening had less patrons, their Patreon still has less than this game does currently, and they finished their first game in the time this one's taken to get started. Further, they're working on a new one and making steady progress. I don't know how a person actively ignores things being told to them so they can make a point they have no backing for, it's astounding to me actually, but whatever. I'm done here.
I told them a while ago that since they have a steady and clearly devout community behind them already, so they're already making money, which means they literally don't have to do anything anymore and they can get away with it. If they do make progress though and this game ever gets finished then good on them.