VN Ren'Py Angel & Demon [v0.2] [Saint]

[Saint_RNG]

Monique is so pretty I wish the whole game was about her

Physically I liked her too, too bad the archdemon's corruption made her execrable.

She may well return in bonus content, depending on what fans choose on SubscribeStar.

 

[thomthehound]

That sums up the whole intro, exaggerating and parodying things to the max. I agree that it's not the best way to make the game 'appealing to everyone' right from the start.
I don't know if you played v0.2 (especially the dialogue between Veronica and her mother in the church or the dialogue between Veronica and Sarah in Luigi's room) but it's partly explained :

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Some of these things are not yet explained in the game, but they will be.



Once again, it's the deliberate exaggeration of the intro that brings the whole thing to a climax, before dropping back down after Veronica's death. Afterwards, we'll learn that the baby is just like any other baby, that the black people who do scenes with Sarah do so because they're just paid for it, it's only role-playing during the scenes, outside they're just like everyone else, ditto for Sarah, she's not a QoS as it might seem, she's just doing this kind of content because she's better paid than for other fetishes.

As for the racism Lorenzo may express, I'd call it clumsy racism. It sounds strange, but he's not really a racist, he's just worried and frustrated about Sarah. And unfortunately, the way he expresses it is racist. The way to "fight" this will be part of the plot, so it's essential.

I think my mistake is clearly not to have put a disclaimer directly at the beginning of the game concerning this subject, the poll seems to confirm it. I'll fix it for v0.3, since it's easy to avoid much of this content by not making the “corrupt” choices in the intro.

I understand. And I can tell from your writing that you are highly intelligent. I think you also know that this is sensitive/delicate territory. And, for that reason, I've done my best to not insinuate that you mean to wrong people.

Lorenzo didn't actually bother me, mostly because I think his reaction is reasonable for a father who blames himself for his daughter's (ostensibly) unplanned pregnancy. I like the fact that you are exploring a porn actress getting knocked up during a scene. Actually, I think it might have even been better if it was something unintentional somehow. There is something worth exploring even more with that perhaps with a flashback at some point. That could be fun and kinky. There isn't anything wrong with "Luigi" as a name either, although I think maybe Helena should say something like "but, honey, she named him after your father!" when Lorenzo gets upset, if just to make it clear that it is a normal Italian name and not some video game reference.

However, I think a few words after the nipple-biting scene with the baby (perhaps the MC thinking to herself "but he doesn't even have any teeth yet..." or "it looked like he was biting her because she was forcing him against her breast...") would signal to the player that something is awry with how things are being presented. Anything to make it clear that the baby isn't malicious. The treatment of that baby, in generally, left a really sour note for me right from the start.

The biggest sin is having Monique's eyes glow and not Dominic's. Switching those would change a lot. I think conveying to the player that Dominic is literally possessed by a demon, and that Monique is simply his thrall, would go a long way. There is plenty to explore with the concept of demons exploiting well-intentioned people to take their passion and pervert them for evil. BLM rallies seem almost like a pre-packaged way to convey that.

However, even then, this prologue... wow. The tone here is a hole that really requires the player to pay attention and 'asks-without-asking' that they put the proverbial legwork into digging themselves out of.

 

[R1k0]

As a fan of interracial content myself, I hope you don’t hesitate too much about the amount of interracial content you end up including, either concerning Sarah or Veronica… all because of some loudmouths that can’t read the warning on the front page. Not all IR content is immediately racist or stereotypical, just look at Pineapple Express - that game, in my humble opinion, has the best portrayal of Interracial NTS/NTR on the market. There is almost no raceplay or stereotypes involved, because race wasn’t a factor - you could’ve had a man of any race in that same position and the relationship would’ve been the same.

P.S. You are also probably the only dev I’ve seen that also bothered to include birracial children, a.k.a. the aftermath. Even the aforementioned PE game ends by nearly skipping the entire pregnancy and doesn’t even show the baby to the player, so another thumbs up just for that!

You wrote about Pineapple express, it's the best interracial game ever. Oh my god it's not interracial at all, change the color of this guy's skin and the story is the same. That's a very bad example. I want a quality interracial game, with hardcore sex scenes, interracial slur, humiliation, But Pineapple express no, it's boring with mediocre graphics, those regular unnatural poses with arms raised, cringe.

 

[Saint_RNG]

There is something worth exploring even more with that perhaps with a flashback at some point. That could be fun and kinky.

There will be one or two mini flashbacks (an image or two) during the main game. But the whole series she shot for Luigi's “conception” could be a good subject to exploit for a side story once the game is over. A way of focusing solely on that and making it optional, since not everyone wants to see it.

There isn't anything wrong with "Luigi" as a name either, although I think maybe Helena should say something like "but, honey, she named him after your father!" when Lorenzo gets upset, if just to make it clear that it is a normal Italian name and not some video game reference.

You weren't personally targeted by this, but someone did make this remark in one of the first posts of the thread.
For the moment, only Sarah knows why she named him Luigi. The others have their doubts, as it's obviously not a common first name, but only she can confirm it. For the moment she hasn't, because in her mind it seems logical that others have come to this conclusion.

However, I think a few words after the nipple-biting scene with the baby (perhaps the MC thinking to herself "but he doesn't even have any teeth yet..." or "it looked like he was biting her because she was forcing him against her breast...") would signal to the player that something is awry with how things are being presented.

I'm going to try and make some slight changes to the dialogue in this section to make it less ambiguous.

You wrote about Pineapple express, it's the best interracial game ever. Oh my god it's not interracial at all, change the color of this guy's skin and the story is the same. That's a very bad example. I want a quality interracial game, with hardcore sex scenes, interracial slur, humiliation, But Pineapple express no, it's boring with mediocre graphics, those regular unnatural poses with arms raised, cringe.

I've never played this game, but I've seen it several times by scrolling through the “Latest Updates” section. Unfortunately, the promotional images didn't attract me more than that, and as time goes by, I'm becoming more and more demanding about the visual quality of the characters...

 

[Filipis]

I'm going to try and make some slight changes to the dialogue in this section to make it less ambiguous.

I'm sorry, but no. Don't do this because of that reason. I've read that scene multiple times, and it never came off as racist in any way, shape or form whatsoever - plenty of babies tend to bite the nipple while being breastfed, this isn't anything specific to any race, and is probably racist to try and paint it as such.

Have you people never heard of a woman complain about sore nipples from breastfeeding, or are we just going to sanitize anything and everything? This is exactly the opposite of hateful racism, but racism nonetheless...

I've never played this game, but I've seen it several times by scrolling through the “Latest Updates” section. Unfortunately, the promotional images didn't attract me more than that, and as time goes by, I'm becoming more and more demanding about the visual quality of the characters...

Give it a go, and forgive the visuals - the NTR/NTS story is absolutely fantastic. And as for the supposed flaw in my argument - I was trying to explain that the interracial aspect made the scenes even hotter, and that it contained no negative racial connotations whatsoever, as the growing intimacy between MC's girlfriend and the black guy in Pineapple Express is completely natural. That is why I said the skin color didn't matter, but because he was black, the interracial aspect gave that extra spice. To give you an example of an interracial romance done right, so you aren't so hesitant to write an interracial romance for Sarah.

 

[Filipis]

You wrote about Pineapple express, it's the best interracial game ever. Oh my god it's not interracial at all, change the color of this guy's skin and the story is the same. That's a very bad example. I want a quality interracial game, with hardcore sex scenes, interracial slur, humiliation, But Pineapple express no, it's boring with mediocre graphics, those regular unnatural poses with arms raised, cringe.

It is because the interracial aspect, in combination with NTR, heightens the eroticism of the scenes. For interracial fans, this is what is representation should be about. You are talking about aspects of humiliation that are closely tied to cuckoldry, I am talking about interracial romance.

 

[Saint_RNG]

I'm sorry, but no. Don't do this because of that reason. I've read that scene multiple times, and it never came off as racist in any way, shape or form whatsoever - plenty of babies tend to bite the nipple while being breastfed, this isn't anything specific to any race, and is probably racist to try and paint it as such.

Have you people never heard of a woman complain about sore nipples from breastfeeding, or are we just going to sanitize anything and everything? This is exactly the opposite of hateful racism, but racism nonetheless...

I don't think he was talking about racism in this particular scene, but rather a form of sexualization of Luigi's act (biting the nipple).

The sentence: "Ouch, since his first teeth came out, he really loves biting my nipple between sips." gives the impression that Luigi does it voluntarily and he takes pleasure in doing it.

Coupled with this extra sentence : "He probably takes after his father. He loved doing that too." suggests that Luigi is doing the biting for the same reasons as his father.

The change would be very minor, based more on the choice of words used in these sentences than a complete change to the dialogue.

So "Ouch, since his first teeth came out, he really loves biting my nipple between sips." would become "Ouch, since his first teeth came out, he started biting my nipple randomly between sips."

And after "He probably takes after his father. He loved doing that too." I'll add a new sentence from Helena "Sarah ! He's just a baby, he doesn't know what he's doing and it happens more often than most people think ! It's certainly not for the same reason as his father..."

I think that would be enough, without changing the whole idea of the scene.

Give it a go, and forgive the visuals - the NTR/NTS story is absolutely fantastic. And as for the supposed flaw in my argument - I was trying to explain that the interracial aspect made the scenes even hotter, and that it contained no negative racial connotations whatsoever, as the growing intimacy between MC's girlfriend and the black guy in Pineapple Express is completely natural. That is why I said the skin color didn't matter, but because he was black, the interracial aspect gave that extra spice. To give you an example of an interracial romance done right, so you aren't so hesitant to write an interracial romance for Sarah.

I'll see... Since the start of the game's development, I've hardly touched another game, it's quite time-consuming...

 

[R1k0]

It is because the interracial aspect, in combination with NTR, heightens the eroticism of the scenes. For interracial fans, this is what is representation should be about. You are talking about aspects of humiliation that are closely tied to cuckoldry, I am talking about interracial romance.

Here's an example of really interracial porn game, not a high quality game though Reparations

 

[Filipis]

I don't think he was talking about racism in this particular scene, but rather a form of sexualization of Luigi's act (biting the nipple).

The sentence: "Ouch, since his first teeth came out, he really loves biting my nipple between sips." gives the impression that Luigi does it voluntarily and he takes pleasure in doing it.

Coupled with this extra sentence : "He probably takes after his father. He loved doing that too." suggests that Luigi is doing the biting for the same reasons as his father.

The change would be very minor, based more on the choice of words used in these sentences than a complete change to the dialogue.

So "Ouch, since his first teeth came out, he really loves biting my nipple between sips." would become "Ouch, since his first teeth came out, he started biting my nipple randomly between sips."

And after "He probably takes after his father. He loved doing that too." I'll add a new sentence from Helena "Sarah ! He's just a baby, he doesn't know what he's doing and it happens more often than most people think ! It's certainly not for the same reason as his father..."

I think that would be enough, without changing the whole idea of the scene.

Do you, the developer, really think of the scene as problematic, though? Sarah made a comment like any mother would, I don't see any racism or sexualization happening here. If you want to change, then by all means, but just do it because you see a genuine problem - not because it might be construed as problematic if you look at it through the thicker end of beer bottle from 100 yards away...

 

[Saint_RNG]

Do you, the developer, really think of the scene as problematic, though? Sarah made a comment like any mother would, I don't see any racism or sexualization happening here. If you want to change, then by all means, but just do it because you see a genuine problem - not because it might be construed as problematic if you look at it through the thicker end of beer bottle from 100 yards away...

Not initially, I had tried to make things rather genuine, but on re-reading I can see how it might be misinterpreted by some.
We all see things differently, and our own moral limits are probably not all on the same scale.

Here's an example of really interracial porn game, not a high quality game though Reparations

This comment is a good example of my last sentence.
For the average human, an interracial porn game is, above all, scenes of sexual relations (romantic or not) between two people who are physically different (by race in the science fiction universe, or by skin color in a universe similar to ours).
But for him, interracial seems to systematically apply to NTR/cuck involving humiliation and a form of dehumanization of one of the characters (this conclusion was hastily reached, based on the promotional images of the game he used as an example, maybe it's not the case).



Maybe I won't change anything in the end, it's just one opinion among many (mostly positive), if dozens of people really do point it out then maybe I'll change.

When getting into development, I imagine that learning how to handle feedback is a challenge in itself.

 

[Filipis]

Maybe I won't change anything in the end, it's just one opinion among many (mostly positive), if dozens of people really do point it out then maybe I'll change.

When getting into development, I imagine that learning how to handle feedback is a challenge in itself.

Like I said, you are welcome to change anything "problematic" you might notice or if it is pointed out by others; but just be honest with yourself if you consider it a problem first.

If only a handful of people consider it a problem; chances are there is no problem.
If almost everyone points out an issue they have with the game; chances are there is a genuine problem.

 

[Filipis]

Here's an example of really interracial porn game, not a high quality game though Reparations

I can tell it was yet another game based around the "BNWO" mindset, and some might even think of that when talking about the interracial fetish.

However, to me at least, interracial can be so much more than the simple "BBC" and "QoS" fetishes that almost always pervade discussions about the interracial fetish.

In the game already gave an example of, Pineapple Express, the interracial aspect serves to further enhance the taboo of the already prickly topic of NTR - it is not the centerpiece of events.

Is the interracial fetish deeply rooted in stereotypes about black men? Most likely.

But that does not mean it can't be refined into a romance, or some other hopeful narrative.

 

[Filipis]

This comment is a good example of my last sentence.
For the average human, an interracial porn game is, above all, scenes of sexual relations (romantic or not) between two people who are physically different (by race in the science fiction universe, or by skin color in a universe similar to ours).
But for him, interracial seems to systematically apply to NTR/cuck involving humiliation and a form of dehumanization of one of the characters (this conclusion was hastily reached, based on the promotional images of the game he used as an example, maybe it's not the case).

I agree. My interracial fetish goes hand-in-hand with pregnancy and impregnation (on a side note, F95 desperately needs to update their tags, these two kinks are not one and the same), so adding interracial to it is just chef's kiss. Like you said, it can be two different humanoid species, as well as different ethnic groups (human & alien, black & white, black & asian, white & asian, etc.).

While for others, interracial is "strictly" sex between a white woman and a black man. And therein we approach a fetish mindset that is inherently racist in its premise, though benign in practice - these people are probably not out in the streets calling for the apartheid to be reinstated. We are talking about fantasies in the end, and it is important to treat them as such.

 

[sebtibo1986]

Not planned

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hello there will be lesbian incest in your game between sister or with mom

 

[R1k0]

Not initially, I had tried to make things rather genuine, but on re-reading I can see how it might be misinterpreted by some.
We all see things differently, and our own moral limits are probably not all on the same scale.

This comment is a good example of my last sentence.
For the average human, an interracial porn game is, above all, scenes of sexual relations (romantic or not) between two people who are physically different (by race in the science fiction universe, or by skin color in a universe similar to ours).
But for him, interracial seems to systematically apply to NTR/cuck involving humiliation and a form of dehumanization of one of the characters (this conclusion was hastily reached, based on the promotional images of the game he used as an example, maybe it's not the case).



Maybe I won't change anything in the end, it's just one opinion among many (mostly positive), if dozens of people really do point it out then maybe I'll change.

When getting into development, I imagine that learning how to handle feedback is a challenge in itself.

It's a bad game and a bad example, but there are no others or they are games of similar quality. I don't want to get into a long discussion, but to me interracial game isn't exclusively NTR/humiliation (I don't like cuckold porn at all), it's when race plays a role in the story, not just skin color that doesn't affect anything.

 

[Filipis]

It's a bad game and a bad example, but there are no others or they are games of similar quality. I don't want to get into a long discussion, but to me interracial game isn't exclusively NTR/humiliation (I don't like cuckold porn at all), it's when race plays a role in the story, not just skin color that doesn't affect anything.

I mean, race already plays a role in the story of this game - Sarah is "ostracized" by her father because she got pregnant with a black baby, and out of wedlock to top it off. Even people that are truly not racist are going to get stumped by their greek-italian, blonde & blue-eyed daughter giving birth to a black baby, a kid that will grow up not resembling anyone on the maternal side (that's just how genes work, especially in black-on-white race-mixing). And that is a part of the interracial fetish for sure, but doesn't make us racist.

Now, if you are talking about Sarah only choosing to engage in sex with black men because of the "stereotypes", then sure, that is a little bit racist. But again, I personally don't care that it is, because it's a benign fantasy. However, the developer of this game might not be comfortable with such scenes, so it all depends on if they want to implement stuff like that.

 

[Saint_RNG]

hello there will be lesbian incest in your game between sister or with mom

Yes, but nothing serious.

 

[Filipis]

Yes, but nothing serious.

Would you mind posting the 0.3 preview from SS or?

Also, will we ever get to see Sarah with her hair down?

 

[sebtibo1986]

Yes, but nothing serious.

what you mean

 

[Saint_RNG]

Would you mind posting the 0.3 preview from SS or?

I don't mind, it's the other supporters who should be asked - after all, they're the ones paying.

Also, will we ever get to see Sarah with her hair down?

Maybe, it's feasible but I don't yet have an asset in mind to use instead of this one. It should be pretty rare though.

what you mean

They won't end up in love or as a couple. There will be a few scenes where they touch each other, but if that's the main fetish you're waiting for, it'll only be slight compared to the rest.