Saruh Games
- Apr 14, 2018
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- Apr 14, 2018
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I've already answered this question numerous times, I'm LITERALLY working on renders right now while also working my regular job, If you can't be bothered to read any of the prior update posts I've made here, on Patreon or in the discord, then I dunno what to tell ya pal.
Sorry if that comes across harsh, That's not my intention, it's just a bit frustrating sometimes. I mean I get it, most creators on here are in it to make a buck. I don't really care that much about all that, I'm only working on this because Saruh asked me to & I gave him my word I'd get it finished. What I signed up for was writing the script & coding it into Renpy, & I had others on my team that I outsourced the renders & other work to. Well they couldn't do it, so now I'm doing the whole job myself. I'm not a professional game developer, I'm not looking to make this my career, I'm a writer with some python skills that is finishing this because I gave my friend my word that I would. I've never done 3D modeling & done anything with DAZ or Blender before, so I had to learn those instantly. Additionally, I'm not someone that has the time to spend all day, every day working on this thing. I have a full time job, I have other projects that require some time too, I have a wife, kids, & a handful of other partners that also want time with me too. I had to cancel plans with one of them & reschedule for Friday just a few days ago to get work done on this game. So you have to understand, I can't just work all day, every day on this. I do work on it daily, but I also have to make time for my other priorities too.
So please try to understand, I get there hasn't been an update since like October, I understand that it had been 4 months since the last update before Saruh even asked me to take over, & I understand you all have been waiting now for 2 & a half month's after I took over.
What you guys need to understand though is, I'm not a guy that's working on this full time as a source of income. I'm a guy with a very busy life that is working on this 2 to 4 hours a day, as time permits, because I gave the original creator my word that I'd finish it. So I'm volunteering my valuable time & effort to fulfill that promise. The update will take as long as it takes. I'll have a more clear answer as to when it will be released once I get closer to being finished with these renders. Currently, I'm working through a pretty steep learning curve with DAZ, so it will take some time. But I'm putting in time daily, so be patient. It really get's under my skin when people ask "Y da update taking so long?" When I'm investing so much of my time & effort for what basically amounts to doing a favor for the original creator. So, I'm sorry if I seem curt, but put yourself in my shoes. Imagine if you were doing some people a favor & they started getting demanding or impatient that you're not putting yourself out for them fast enough. Know what I mean? Sorry, I'm a bit hyper-sensitive about that kind of thing.
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- Apr 14, 2018
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Heh. Thanks. Sorry, My wife & one of our girlfriends have been getting a bit grumpy about how much time this game eats into my time with them, so I've been a bit touchy about it lately.to cheer you up
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(people online are so mean...)
(but they don't really matter anyway...)
- Apr 14, 2018
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Oh I do, That's why I typically work on it when I'm at work at my regular job, kills 2 birds with 1 stone. The only downside is I also have to focus on my actual job, & that takes priority, because I mean, that pays about $200 a day net, on average. So I usually end up getting anywhere from 1 to 3 hours of actual work done on the game over a 10 hour shift, then I put in 1 or 2 more hours of directly focused work after work. But I was trying to work past some learning curves with DAZ, so I was on it 6 to 7 hours a day on my offtime for about a week trying to figure it out. lol. I do agree though, I'm damn lucky to have the women in my life & our family, so they without question are always the priority.Well,
since you ask...
You should probably listen to the ladies IRL.
You're working on this game pro bono - so it'll be ready when it is. and everybody should appreciate the fact that this project is still worked on instead of throwing temper tantrums because you're not working 120 hours a week from a cell in some Chinese labor camp so that "they" can have an update.
Real Life is the Only Life.
Cheers
To be completely transparent, I'm not exactly working pro bono, Saruh did sign the patreon over to me too, so that does pull in, what, like $400 a month? So technically, yes I am drawing a little bit of income from this, but my point was that making money on Patreon isn't really a relevant motivating factor for me. Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate the people that do donate to Patreon, I just appreciate it more in the gesture rather than the money itself. You know that old expression about giving gifts, "It's the thought that counts"? My view on it is more like that. I do appreciate that there are fans out there that like the content enough to say "Here's a couple bucks" because it makes me feel that the work is valued & more worthwhile, so it's very much appreciated in that sense. So I don't want to make it sound like I don't care about the donors on Patreon, I am indeed thankful for the gift of their donations & the fact that they appreciate the content enough to give that gift. My point is just it's not the goal for me. Yes it's a nice perk & it's good to know the work is valued, but making patreon money isn't my goal. I mean, with the amount of hours I put in per month, it comes out to like, $2 an hour. I mean I make the same amount in 2 days at my regular job, so I'm not really looking at this as an income stream. That's what I mean when I say it's a non factor. I'd be approaching this game the same way regardless of if the patreon was pulling in $4k or 4 cents.
Wait, one moment. The game still has 444€/month from supporters in Patreon. So this is not pro bono at all.Well,
since you ask...
You should probably listen to the ladies IRL.
You're working on this game pro bono - so it'll be ready when it is. and everybody should appreciate the fact that this project is still worked on instead of throwing temper tantrums because you're not working 120 hours a week from a cell in some Chinese labor camp so that "they" can have an update.
Real Life is the Only Life.
Cheers
And if it is, is not possible to use that money to pay someone that help with renders?
I mean, 6 months from the last update. People on patreon pay 450€/months for 6 months. 2700€.
And i'm sure that someone left patreon in the last 1/2 months, so before there was probably even more money.
PS: I don't have nothing against Demetrius, this is only my opinion.
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Yeah maybe for you money from patreons are not important, but we need to look the situation also from their prospective. I mean, i'm a patreon of 4 games (Moving Down, Sharing My Fiancee, Watching My Wife and Hotwife Ashley). And i'm happy to donate for help the development of games that i like. But if one of those games didn't get an update for 6 months while i keep paying month to month i would feel cheated. Because you can make a lot of money with your work but is not the same for everyone. Maybe for some people 2/5/10€ of the donation are a good amount of money compared to their wage.
Dev of other games stop the billing for some months when they cant release updates. I think this is a correct behavior.
- Sep 25, 2018
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Not sure if you understand the difference between "paying" and "supporting". Patreon is more a donation platform and it's up to you how much you want support a creator and for how long you do it. You don't pay the creator for its work otherwise you would receive an invoice for his/hers service.
If you think 450€ is much then you are totally wrong! It wouldn't even cover the power bill for rendering the images in some EU states. The commission work of an artist for a simple custom render with one character without anything special in it starts at around $100 per render! A complex render with more characters in it costs even more considering the time spend on it.
- Apr 14, 2018
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I'm aware. That's why I literally said the following:
It is, which is exactly what I did for the first 2 months I was working on this. That is entirely where the patreon funds were funneled. The people that I hired to do the renders were not able to keep up with the workload of this project, plus their own other projects, which is why I had to take over doing the renders myself. Again, I have already pointed this out numerous times here, on Patreon & Discord.
Your point would be valid assuming that I had been creating this game for the past 6 months, However, the original creator was Saruh, as the OP clearly cites. I took over the game development in early February, which wasn't even 3 months ago. So all development, Patreon funds, etc... Prior to that have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with me because even though I was giving him guidance on writing the game prior to that, he was still the only one solely in the drivers seat & he was the one that owned the patreon at that point. You seem oblivious to this fact as well, even though it is well documented here, on Patreon & on the Discord. So, in reality, what you MEAN to say is "I mean, 2 & a half months since you took over, people on Patreon pay $450 a month/2.5 months, that's about $1,100." & sure. That's valid. The first month, I paid to my render guy for about 20 renders total, half of which are unusable. During that first month, I wrote out the script for the update, coded it all into Renpy, & during the second month, I was having to constantly follow up with my renders guys, seeing where they were at progress wise. One completely flaked, the other is too busy for the workload. So I've been spending the past month trying to take over that part as well. So the third month's donations went to buying a better PC better suited to rendering because guess what? My old Windows PC was a Dell laptop with a Haswell era i7, 16 GB of DDR3 RAM & intel HD Graphics, (meaning no real GPU). Care to take a guess what rendering is like on that kind of machine? & my good PC is running Linux & I'm not going to switch to Windows on that rig just to do these renders. Now if all the assets & scenes were in Blendr, no problem because it's open source, works on all platforms, but no, they were all in DAZ Studio, which doesn't run well on Linux, even under WINE. So yeah, I had to get a better windows PC just to even really get started on rendering, which I did like... 3 weeks ago I think? Not to mention the fact that I'm completely new to RenPY, (Which is fine, because I have over a decade of writing experience & some Python experience), AND Completely new to doing ANYTHING with DAZ or 3D Graphics in general, (Which is a pretty hard learning curve since I have ZERO experience with that). I tried learning as much as I could with DAZ on my old laptop, but given how underpowered it was for these tasks, obviously there was only so much I could do.
So to make your statement even more accurate, "It's been 3 weeks. Where's the update?" Well, Tell you what. Since you think it's such an easy task to crank out content that fast, here's your chance to prove it. I wrote over 20k lines of new script text, (well over 100k words total), within the span of about a week or so, working off & on. Realistically, it took me like 3 days. But I'll be super generous & give you about a month. Write out a script. Then, once you have it all written & coded into Renpy without errors, You have 3 weeks to create the characters in DAZ, create the environments & scenes, then render them all out, (should be around 200 or so for that much text). If you can do that, then fine. I'll concede validity to your comment. Otherwise, I'd say 3 weeks to create all that & get the renders cranked out is a bit unrealistic, don't you?
& before you say "How was I supposed to know? There's no reason to be a dick about it", Understand, I'm not trying to be a dick here, however, I am rather frustrated because how were you supposed to know? Well a good start would be reading the multiple times I've already said all this on ANY of the above mentioned platforms, here included. It's frustrating because none of this is new info. I'm having to repeat things I've already said numerous times. So when you're making the kinds of comments that you are, whether you realize it or not, what you are also saying is "I want to be part of the conversation, but I can't be bothered to read the conversation up to this point, so I'll just make you repeat yourself yet again". So put yourself in my shoes & try to understand how frustrating that is, because I went to much greater lengths than most creators do to openly & transparently communicate exactly what is going on as things develop. So when I see people essentially saying "Can't be bothered to read what was already posted, ignoring that, Hey Slappy, repeat yourself answering a bunch of stuff you already stated", that get's ANNOYING. I've already invested more effort in communication than most creators do. If you're going to be in the discussion, you're more than welcome, but PAY ATTENTION. if you can't be bothered to do so, then understand why you get my ire with the responses.
& I don't have anything against you either. Truly, I wish you no ill will. I'm just really frustrated because I'm having to repeat myself yet again, so I'm having to expend additional time & energy to repeat myself t compensate for someone else's failure to make the effort to see & observe the info already clearly here.
I do. That's EXACTLY why I'm open & transparent about the role patreon plays in my motivation with continuing this game. I don't want people on tight budget's that can't really afford to donate thinking "If I chip in a few bucks, maybe that will motivate him to work faster" or "If I pay in x amount, then I get to say 'hey, I pay your salary, so I get to have more of a say in how the game is written'" or whatever. Now, as I've already said many times, I do appreciate the donations, after all, it was the patreon funds that made getting the new PC to do the renders possible, (because While I'm willing to invest my time & effort into finishing this project, I'm not going to spend my own money on buying a new computer for what is essentially doing a friend a favor). & I personally see the donations as gifts from fans that wanted to show their appreciation for the content, so I respect & appreciate them for what it is. But while the donations are sincerely appreciated, the point is, I'm not in this for the money. THAT is the point. I don't WANT people feeling like they are expected or obligated to financially contribute because I'm not here to cash in, I'm here to fulfil my word to my friend & to complete this story for the fans. That's something that people SHOULD know. That way, if someone can only comfortably afford to donate to myself or another creator, & that other creator IS relying on Patreon funds to pay the bills, they know "Oh, Slappy doesn't NEED the money, so I'll donate to the other guy". That's fine. On that same note, with creators that ARE here to make income & cash in, there's an expectation on both the creator's side & the fanbase's side for the creator to pander to the whims & want's of the biggest section of the paying fanbase to maximize profits.
In short, the creator work's on the paying fanbase's terms, pandering to what the majority of the paying fans want & when they want it. Since I don't give a fuck about profit, it makes it clear up front that I work on MY terms & won't be pandering to shit. I will complete the game exactly as Saruh & myself intended, as I'm able to in the time I can make for it, regardless of how much or how little money Patreon brings in. If a patron likes the content & want's to leave a tip, cool. That's great. Thank you, I'm glad you like the content. But If they think they can use being a paying donor to be entitled or make demands, wrong game, wrong creator. Feel free to take your $5 elsewhere. I think that's something MOST people would like to know up front.
Now don't get me wrong, I appreciate my fans & my donors. I respect them. I'm a transparent, open, straight shooter. As many here & on discord can attest, I'm more than happy to sit down & have a conversation with anyone. If anyone has questions about the game, or if they have requests or suggestions, I'm more than happy to listen & consider their requests, regardless of if they are a donor or not. If they take the time to play the game, or contribute a couple bucks, I think that deserves some modicum of respect in return for the respect given. The point is, unlike with most creators, where making money is the goal, with me, while the money made on Patreon is appreciated, it's not expected because making money isn't the goal for me.
Well since you already stated that you're not a Patron, I suppose it's irrelevant then is it not? But even if you were, All I'd have to say to you is sorry you feel cheated, but the situation with the production of this game has been made crystal clear repeatedly. If that's an issue for you, feel free to cancel your donations.
What's your point? Did I argue that you should treat other creators like they don't need the income? Because I'm pretty sure I never made that argument. In fact, I'm pretty sure that I've clearly stated many times that most DO, & I'm the EXCEPTION to that rule. That's kind the whole point about why I'm so open & transparent about my position on my own patreon. I figured that should have been pretty obvious. Obviously $x has a different value to everyone, depending on their circumstances. But, you seem to be kind of arguing against yourself, otherwise I'm not seeing the relevance of your point, unless it's to confirm what I've already repeatedly said. Are you trying to argue, "Just because you make good money, others don't, so since smaller portions of money hold higher value to them, it should hold higher value to you too"? No dude. That's just dumb. Especially since you, yourself said "is not the same for everyone."
Let me give you an example of what I mean. Let's say a fan wanted something custom & specific made, let's say a scene where Mark kills Henry & then he & Angelica fuck on top of his corpse. Well, I have no interest in making that scene. So if so & so REALLY wanted that scene, Ok, well the price for my time to write it & do the renders would be, let's say $500, I'd make it & send their custom scene straight to them. "WAIT! You said you're not in this to make money, plus other creators would do a custom scene for only $50. That looks like a blatant cash grab!" Incorrect. That's an illustration of the value of my time. That guy that will do a custom scene for $50, well, is he single? Kids? Does he work full time? is he financially strained? Does he have an abundance of idle time? These are all very important factors to take under consideration. If they need the money, maybe they're $50 short on rent, or they just have a lot of idle time, Where the time he sits at a computer making the game isn't much of a loss to him, as it would otherwise have been spent playing games or watching TV, sure, $50 might be worth it to them. Hell, I've had times where I was in financial duress & spending a couple days to make that easy $50 would have been a god send.
However, I make a comfortable living with my regular job, & my family isn't very materialistic, so the need for extra income is very low. Additionally, since I have a regular job, well that eats up 40 hours of my week. I also have a wife, we have 3 additional girlfriends & we all have 7 kids, possibly 8, (too soon to tell). So for that guy that has loads of idle time, is $50 short on rent, & rent is due in 3 days, Absolutely, making that custom scene for $50 is extremely worthwhile for him because his need for money is high & the expense in time & energy for him is low. For me though, it's a whole different story when deciding the value of my time. I have a much lower need for money & a much higher need for time, because it's not a question of "Do I spend that time making a custom scene for a few bucks, or watch TV, or play video games, or sleep". It's a a question of "Do I spend that time on my computer making a custom scene, or have sex with my wife &/or girlfriends, or spend time with my kids, or take them all out somewhere for a family day out, or take my girls out on a date".
I mean let me put it to you like this. Imagine you had an attractive woman in your bed wanting to spend some time getting it on. Would you decide "I'm going to put that off to sit at my computer making this scene, so I can get that $50 so I... can just have an extra... $50.. I.. guess...". I'd be willing to bet, unless you really needed the money, no, you'd say that spending that time being intimate with your woman would be worth way more than the $50 you'd be passing up right? So then the question becomes what amount of money makes it worth sacrificing that time. For me, that would be at least $500. Not because I'm trying to get $500, but because less than that wouldn't be worth giving up the 2 days worth of time I'd be spending with my women & family. Make sense?
So with that in mind, Like you said, it's different for everyone. For me, Every hour I spend working on this game is an hour that I'm not spending with my girls & family. That's why I do most of the work while at my regular job when things get slow. I put in at least 2 hours a day on the game, that adds up to a minimum of 56 hours a month. Think my time is worth a lousy $400?Nah man, Nah. But that's the point. Since the amount of money is so small that it's not worth it to me financially to work on it, yet I'm still working on it anyway, that means there's other reasons for me to be doing so, (which have also been repeatedly stated). That means, no matter what, the game is getting finished, & anyone spouting any nonsense about Patreon or money having any bearing whatsoever on how the game content is made, & when content for the game comes out are clueless half wits that can go fuck themselves.
Then they shouldn't be donating to anyone on Patreon. I mean, it's their money, they can spend it however they like, but if their finances are that tight that the money they spend on Patreon isn't negligible, or has a profound impact on their finances, please spend it on more worthwhile things. I mean if I have any Patrons where what they donate requires them sacrificing being able to afford A, B or C, PLEASE, stop donating to me & spend that money on the things you want. 1, it's purely a luxury & not a necessity at all & 2, The game will still proceed regardless. If that portion of money spent on me affects your finances that much, Stop. It's wasted. But for those where $2 to whatever the other tiers are, is an inconsequential amount that has little to no impact on their finances, feel free to donate with my thanks if you wish, or not, either way, the game will proceed on.
Gladly. Because then I could stop working on this game & spend that time with my family. However, that would also mean the game would be abandoned, which is EXACTLY where it would be if I didn't take it over when Saruh decided to quit. However, I gave him my word that I would complete it, & I am a man of my word, so I have to press on because there is no fucking way that I'm going to break my word. My word is my bond.
& if I wasn't actively working on the game & just left the billing on while I ignored the game, I'd agree. It would be unethical to collect any funds for work that's not getting done. However, since I put in at least a couple hours a day working on this game, & have done so since I started on it, Why the hell should I turn off billing? What, because you, (general you, not you specifically), donated a couple bucks & didn't get an update in return that month? Take note of cold_arctus's response to you. Remember what I said about pandering? This is EXACTLY what I mean. You aren't buying a product, you're supporting a creator. You think paying a couple bucks a month entitles you to impose on me deadlines? & if I don't meet your expectations, I should stop accepting DONATIONS? Because you didn't get the update you wanted when you wanted it? No dude, not gonna happen. So let me make this abundantly clear to you as well as any current or potential future patrons. With all due respect, Fuck your expectations & fuck your deadlines. I gave Saruh my word that I would finish this game, & a man's word means something where I'm from, so come hell or high water, it will get done. Additionally, I will continue to put in at least 2 hours a day working on it, as I have done since I started. So rest assured, you will get your updates until it's complete. However, I will work on it WHEN I CHOOSE, for as long as I CHOOSE & on MY terms. I've been working on it less than 3 months total, I've only really been working on renders, not even 3 weeks, so however long it takes me to finish the update in the hours that I CHOOSE to work on it is when it will come out. As long as it takes is the deadline. Anyone whom isn't ok with that or "feels that they aren't getting their money's worth", by all means, cancel your donations & fuck right off. I mean no disrespect, but my obligation isn't to anyone other than Saruh, because it's to him that I promised to finish the game. I'd rather lose income on this game & finish it on MY time & MY terms than sacrifice even more of my time with my family & pander for pennies to navel gazing donors that feel their couple of bucks entitles them to more of my valuable time than I deem fit.
& again, I mean no disrespect & I'm not trying to be a dick about it, but I mean, I've stated all this in more polite language before, but it seems some folks just aren't getting it, so I have to be more on the nose. This isn't a job, it isn't a hobby, it's fulfilling a promise I made to Saruh. So I may as well be working pro bono for all it matters. I have absolutely no interest in anyone winging & whining about how long it's taking or anything else on it. Granted, I get it, & I can sympathize, as this community is full of grifters that milk Patreon & try to skate by on as little effort & work as possible. So they release an update or a teaser or 2 on their patreon when their donors start drooping to lure donors back in & try to keep their Patreon donors hooked in. But if I was one of those grifters, do you really think I'd be saying "Cancel your donations if you don't like how I make the game or how fast I update it"? Don't you think that would be kinda working AGAINST my presumed interests? The fact that I'm outright saying "If you don't like how I handle this game, take your money & leave" should be a BIIIIG FUCKIN CLUE. This game will be finished even if Patreon sits at $0. That's a promise. However, I'm a busy guy with limited expendable time, so it will be done MY way, on MY terms & on MY time.. If that's unacceptable to anyone, DON'T DONATE, because I will NOT pander to you. I'm sorry if that comes off as abrasive, but it is what it is. I need to make sure there's absolutely NO confusion on this matter. It doesn't mean I don't care or don't respect the fans & donors, I do, as long as they also respect my position too. & when you really get down to it, Considering that I'm volunteering my time & energy to fulfill a promise to a friend, I don't think I'm being unreasonable.
Plus, just an FYI, I've posted like 2 updates on Patreon. I've posted WAY more updates here & on Discord, both of which are freely available for free. Man, Guess I really suck at this whole grifting thing huh?
Plus, pretty soon, the whole thing with Patreon likely won't even matter anyway. In the next update, there's a scene of some pretty graphic violence, which I think is against their TOS, Plus in upcoming updates, closer to the end, the incest tag & a few others are going to get tossed in too, which is also against Patreon's rules, so for all I know, the game may end up getting banned from there anyway.
See, THANK YOU. This guy get's it. I appreciate you man.
Nailed it. EXACTLY. I paid over $500 to my renders guy, that got me about 20 renders, only half of which were even usable. 2D art is even more expensive.
- Sep 25, 2018
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Unfortunately, not many supporters/player know how much time and effort goes into creating a single render. Most people think it is simply to drag & drop the asset into Daz and hit the print key and move on to the next render. Well, this is how basic Honey Select without mods works, however, Daz, Blender etc. are more complex and require good hardware and some skills to create good renders.
As far as I know a Daz to Blender bridge exist, but can't tell how good it works or if it even works on Linux.
A good workaround would be to "outsource" those scene into a patch file and distribute a clean version via Patreon and the forbidden version via Ledpachter/Decensor.
The way i see it when it comes to the time its taking is simple. Saruh set a level of quality that we have come to expect on the visual side. He had been doing this for years and common sense has to tell you that it will take some time for anyone to grasp a working knowledge of how to properly render up to a similar level. I'd rather wait and get a polished conclusion on par with the rest of the game then see a rushed obvious drop off from what we had previously. So sit back and wait because it will come eventually. The fact that we are going to see it completed at all is better than seeing a abandoned tag like many other titles here. So RELAX with the complaining because it's coming, it's just going to take longer to be done right. And i for one am completely ok with that.
- Apr 14, 2018
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Hey folks, I wanted I wanted to clarify what I mean in a shorter, less acrimonious way, because my last post was a rather irate tirade & I don't want there to be any confusion on my position. In short, a more level headed, TL;DR version.
When it comes to donations on Patreon, I do appreciate them just as much as any other creator. So I don't want anyone thinking I don't care about of value them, I do. so of course, when anyone says "here's a few bucks as a token of my appreciation for your work", I do genuinely appreciate that & extra money is always a good thing.
The point is, unlike other creators that make their games for the purpose of making money, which means they have a strong need &/or desire to make that Patreon cash, I DON'T need extra money. I make a comfortable living through my regular job, if I wanted to make extra money, I could just spend 1 day picking up an extra shift, which, with overtime pay, would net me about $300 for that one day's work. That would give me a far better ROI, (return on investment), than spending x many hours on this game to earn that $400 a month from patreon. I mean $300 in one day vs $400 in a month? No brainer right? I could also freelance my technical skills on Fiverr for a day or 2 for a much larger ROI, so if my goal was to use my free time to make extra money, I have way more lucrative options that would be less demanding of my time & energy than making this game.
So the whole purpose of me continuing this game is this. Saruh didn't have the ability & drive to make it anymore, but he didn't want his fans feeling like they were burned by another creator that just abandoned their game, nor did he want that being the legacy of this game. He want's it completed, he just doesn't have it in him to do it himself. So he asked me to finish it. That's pretty much it. So my goal is to honor that promise I made to him & finish the game as he intended & implement the various ideas that he & I discussed over the past year. So that is what I'm going to do. That is the plan.
So I don't want people thinking I don't care about the donors, I do. It's simply that I don't rely on the patreon money, so the amount of money it makes is a non factor to me. It's also a non factor to how this game is made & when updates come out because the purpose & plan for my work on it is different than someone who's intent is to make money. That's why I say pandering is a non starter, because it's just not a factor. If anyone feels like I owe them this or that because they paid in a few bucks, don't donate. We have a specific plan & we will go by that plan. It's as simple as that.
Now that doesn't mean I'm adverse to suggestions or requests from fans. For example, there was a fan on Discord that asked if it would be possible to have a path where Angelica has her own lesbian harem. That wasn't in the current plan, but rhcp725 & I put our heads together & figured out a relatively easy way to make that happen, so I'll try to fit it into the game. Now, are either of them paying patrons? I don't know. What I do know is that rhcp725 is a legit good dude that's been supportive, I've had numerous conversations with him & have developed some good respect for him, & the other guy came respectably with a reasonable request. Those are the factors that are more salient to me.
Likewise, there's been others that have expressed dislike for some of the planned content. For example, with some of the newer characters, they said they don't like things like tattoos & body piercings on women. Well I can sympathize that it's not to their tastes, but it's not going to change because the primary new character, Stumpy, came up from the hardcore scene, where loads of body art are the norm. So having him with a wife & other partners from that same circle that don't look the part wouldn't make much sense, & I'm a stickler for accuracy in character design, as Saruh himself can attest to. I won't compromise on the art to pander to fan preferences. I'll try to strike a reasonable balance where I can, but within reason without compromising the art. Additionally, some that I've shared spoilers with have not been too keen on the fact that Stumpy makes a lot of jokes about how Aria's tattoos look kinda nazi-ish. Don't care, those amuse me, so I'll keep doing it. If that causes x number of patreons to pull their donations, eh. It is what it is, fair trade.
Well this went on longer than I planned, so I'll sum it up. The point is I do appreciate the donations just as much as any other creator, I just don't need the money, nor rely on it because it's not a factor in why I'm continuing the game, so anything involving money & this game is a non factor to me.
When it comes to donations on Patreon, I do appreciate them just as much as any other creator. So I don't want anyone thinking I don't care about of value them, I do. so of course, when anyone says "here's a few bucks as a token of my appreciation for your work", I do genuinely appreciate that & extra money is always a good thing.
The point is, unlike other creators that make their games for the purpose of making money, which means they have a strong need &/or desire to make that Patreon cash, I DON'T need extra money. I make a comfortable living through my regular job, if I wanted to make extra money, I could just spend 1 day picking up an extra shift, which, with overtime pay, would net me about $300 for that one day's work. That would give me a far better ROI, (return on investment), than spending x many hours on this game to earn that $400 a month from patreon. I mean $300 in one day vs $400 in a month? No brainer right? I could also freelance my technical skills on Fiverr for a day or 2 for a much larger ROI, so if my goal was to use my free time to make extra money, I have way more lucrative options that would be less demanding of my time & energy than making this game.
So the whole purpose of me continuing this game is this. Saruh didn't have the ability & drive to make it anymore, but he didn't want his fans feeling like they were burned by another creator that just abandoned their game, nor did he want that being the legacy of this game. He want's it completed, he just doesn't have it in him to do it himself. So he asked me to finish it. That's pretty much it. So my goal is to honor that promise I made to him & finish the game as he intended & implement the various ideas that he & I discussed over the past year. So that is what I'm going to do. That is the plan.
So I don't want people thinking I don't care about the donors, I do. It's simply that I don't rely on the patreon money, so the amount of money it makes is a non factor to me. It's also a non factor to how this game is made & when updates come out because the purpose & plan for my work on it is different than someone who's intent is to make money. That's why I say pandering is a non starter, because it's just not a factor. If anyone feels like I owe them this or that because they paid in a few bucks, don't donate. We have a specific plan & we will go by that plan. It's as simple as that.
Now that doesn't mean I'm adverse to suggestions or requests from fans. For example, there was a fan on Discord that asked if it would be possible to have a path where Angelica has her own lesbian harem. That wasn't in the current plan, but rhcp725 & I put our heads together & figured out a relatively easy way to make that happen, so I'll try to fit it into the game. Now, are either of them paying patrons? I don't know. What I do know is that rhcp725 is a legit good dude that's been supportive, I've had numerous conversations with him & have developed some good respect for him, & the other guy came respectably with a reasonable request. Those are the factors that are more salient to me.
Likewise, there's been others that have expressed dislike for some of the planned content. For example, with some of the newer characters, they said they don't like things like tattoos & body piercings on women. Well I can sympathize that it's not to their tastes, but it's not going to change because the primary new character, Stumpy, came up from the hardcore scene, where loads of body art are the norm. So having him with a wife & other partners from that same circle that don't look the part wouldn't make much sense, & I'm a stickler for accuracy in character design, as Saruh himself can attest to. I won't compromise on the art to pander to fan preferences. I'll try to strike a reasonable balance where I can, but within reason without compromising the art. Additionally, some that I've shared spoilers with have not been too keen on the fact that Stumpy makes a lot of jokes about how Aria's tattoos look kinda nazi-ish. Don't care, those amuse me, so I'll keep doing it. If that causes x number of patreons to pull their donations, eh. It is what it is, fair trade.
Well this went on longer than I planned, so I'll sum it up. The point is I do appreciate the donations just as much as any other creator, I just don't need the money, nor rely on it because it's not a factor in why I'm continuing the game, so anything involving money & this game is a non factor to me.
anyone has a save with the gallery full unlocked? mine got corrupted/doesn't work anymore, so if i wanna get the last scenes i can't
- Apr 17, 2022
- 120
- 776
The lesbian path on this one is fun to play through. Aria is sweet as honey. And I liked the nymphomania premise, but it would have been nice to explore the disorder a little deeper: What the consequences are, how it negatively affects relationships, not only in pornographic terms, and so on. Still, I enjoyed my time with it.
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I think Slappy/Demetrius will be exploring that angle as well for many of the paths. I believe Saruh was also hoping to show part of that such as the consequences and what happens to the various people involved in these kinds of relationships and how it's not the way it's typically portrayed in porn/the media. It isn't always BBC bull steals slut wife from emasculated husband and they live happily ever after the way the story has mostly gone so far with clearcut winners and loser. The way things have been depicted thus far is more playing into those tropes when in reality things would be quite messy for most of the people involved. I think one of the main things is Demetrius exploring the various ways things can crash and burn since a large part of the relationships in the game are based on spite, hatred, malice, jealousy etc. Negative emotions/feelings/motives are what drives the various relationships and that is a recipe for disaster and will have major consequences in the future.
Demitrius p: Don't stress too much about timelines or delays or whatnot. At the end of the day the fact it isn't abandoned should be enough to satisfy people imo.
Also sorry if this has been answered already but will the updates follow Saruh's method of updating one path at a time or will it be multiple paths/one path taken to it's end?
Can't wait to see what you have in store for the second half of the game and the various paths.
Hoping for some satisfying conclusions and people getting what they deserve to wrap things up
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- Apr 14, 2018
- 607
- 818
Well, officially, only 1, as monogamous marriage is the only legally recognized form of marriage here in the USA & polygamy / bigamy is illegal, (Thanks Mormons -_-), though marriage isn't that big of a deal in the poly life.
As for partners though, well, there's my wife, then we have 1 girlfriend that lives with us, (you could think of her as a common law wife of sorts I suppose), Then we have another partner that used to be a live in girlfriend, though now she now has a fiance & is engaged to get married, so she lives with her fiance & I / we have become more or less a secondary relationship to that one, (He's aware of it & consents btw), We have one potential live in partner that is planning to move here to live with us, basically taking the place of the one that is getting married, but that's still in a might or might not happen stage, Then I have a second "mom with benefits" of sorts, so the story with that one is this. She's Filipino, I'm 40, but I look a bit older, due to the color of my beard, (people in my family go gray pretty fast), but she's 60, but she doesn't look her age. When we first got together, I thought she was the same age as me. When she told me her age, I thought she was kidding, but she wasn't. So it started as a joke, about how she's old enough to be my mom, the joke kind of went on, & after a bit, she decided she liked the idea of being my mom, so she wanted to make it a thing. we even made & printed a mock birth certificate so it's more "real" for her & that's pretty much the dynamic we have. It was a bit weird for me, given the fact that our relationship started as a sexual one &, aside from the whole mother & son thing, still is to this day, but hey, if she's comfortable fucking her son, I'm perfectly fine with letting her be whatever makes her happy.
aside from that, I have a partner in the next state over, though we don't really have any official relationship. We were starting to date for a while back around... shit... 2018 ish, but due to her busy schedule vs my own, plus us being a solid 45 minute to an hour's drive away from each other being a factor, we just never really were able to find the time to get any real relationship off the ground, but we still get together when we can every once in a while, (Which varies from once a month to a few times a year), there's a few others in the local poly community that I've hooked up with a handful of times, though I don't think they really count, plus I've kinda distanced myself from the community, (got a couple of exes in there, including the mother of my year old, plus, aside from most of them being the more RA, (Relationship Anarchy), kind of poly, (Which I'm not a fan of. Basically RA is kind of the more unstructured, hippy "free love" kind of poly, which really, is just a group of people all hooking up with each other. Personally, I'm not knocking it, it's just not for me. For example, one of my exes from that community is full on RA & has like... well last time I counted 20 people living with her, though I think now it's closer to maybe 17, but in total partners, she has around 30 or so, basically anyone where there's any mutual interest, she hooks up with & adds to her harem. She & I are still friends, don't get me wrong, but we're just friends at this point because personally, when someone has THAT many partners, that means you're trying to build a relationship on like 1 or 2 days of actual time together per month & she's always on her phone managing communication with them all. Can't really build a meaningful relationship on that & I want more time with my partners. Fucking does not equal relationship, Sorry. One interesting bit of trivia though, remember that ex that I mentioned a bit earlier that is the mother of my 4 year old? She lives with that other ex, initially because my kid's mom was dating 2 of the other woman's partners. Anyways, I prefer to keep my polycule small. 2 to 3 full time partners, maybe 5 total including part time side relationships, but anything more than that & it becomes unmanageable & starts effecting the quality of the other relationships. Love may be unlimited, but time, energy & attention isn't. As it is, I'm already pretty maxed out, so I'm actually pretty glad one of them is getting married. & naturally they are all free to have other partners too.
Let's see... Am I forgetting anything... Ok, so I'm not sure if this counts, but I do have a undefined relationship, Basically years ago, I was on IMVU back when there was a big role play community on there. T1 & para / novella type RP was the big thing at that time, (basically collaborative, semi improv story writing), & as a writer, I was really into that. Now for those that are unfamilliar, it's basically a 3d chat program, kinda like second life. Though IMVU is rather well... Stupid with their morality policing. They are perfectly fine with nudity & some sexual themes, but have very strict rules against anything overtly sexual, (meaning no erect dick products, no realistic genitals, no sex poses / products, etc...). So there's naturally a lucrative black market for sex products on there, (what are commonly known as trigger dicks, meaning they are flacid dicks or other products that have triggers built in to make them realistic & hard, rooms & furniture with sex poses built in, etc...). So around 2018, I returned to IMVU very part time to make a side hustle of creating a bunch of BM products from product files I had still on my PC, & then selling them. It was actually a pretty good side hustle for a while, It took me maybe 10 minutes to create & upload a product, then through word of mouth, people would come to me looking to buy, I'd "gift" them the product for like 50k credits, (their in game currency), then after I had about 500k cr built up, I'd then go to specific IMVU black market sites & sell the credits for cheaper than IMVU sold them, (Basically the buyer would have a "sticker" product of their own in the IMVU catalogue with the price of the desired amount & I'd "Buy" the sticker to do the transfer after they paid the real money to buy the CR. So they would paypal or cashapp the price of the CR to me, I was selling them for like $40 per 100k cr, then I'd "Buy" their sticker for 100k cr in the IMVU catalogue to transfer the cr to them). Usually every day, I'd have about 5 to 10 messages from people wanting to buy, a couple more would trickle in throughout the day while I was working my regular job, so in a given day, I'd usually hit that 500k mark, so that typically came out to around $200 a day for what added up to maybe an hour's work in small bits here & there. Anyway, so RP was still sort of a thing when I returned, & I ended up getting into an online relationship with a girl I met on there because hey, why not? It was kinda fun while I was on the client. So my character & her's were married on the game, & we started talking offline as well. Though after a few months, since IMVU is a rapidly dying community, they changed their policies to make the trafficking of BM products harder, (basically requiring the buyer to also use a modded client in order to access the products since it became impossible to sneak them into the catalogue), it required a lot more time & work for a lot less buyers, increasingly diminished returns for more time & effort, so I quit & left again. It just wasn't profitable anymore. Anyways, My IMVU "wife" & I "divorced" because I wasn't online anymore, but we still talk on whatsapp.
I know, that was a long aside to seemingly trivial minutia, but it's a preamble to get a context for the dynamic between this woman & I. So during our online time together, things sort of developed, but never really turned into anything, aside from the fictional in game relationship. However, she has stated many times that once her kids are done with school, she does want to move out this way, So we do have tentative plans for her to move here in a couple years. Presently we are just friends, but there is mutual interest there & we already had a relationship of sorts, so it's unknown if we'll just stay friends or if something more will develop. So I dunno if that counts.