Thickgravy49

Active Member
Jul 24, 2017
859
2,123
Patreon isn't a store, you support people through it if you want.
Are you saying that you're perfectly happy to just keep ploughing money into game developement and never see anything for it?
Or, do you want to have a game, or at least an update, at some point, like I suspect most people do?

People come on here saying that they are supporting the dev, not purchasing a product.
Alright then, but how many of those would carry on paying, if the dev stopped developement?
The bottom line is, everybody either wants, or expects to get something back, at some point, for their investment.
I would suggest that very few people would want to just give their cash away to game devs and get nothing in return.
 
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Ass-a-Lot

Active Member
Aug 29, 2018
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Ayame#1Fan

Active Member
Nov 8, 2016
898
1,277
All this fighting over sex game
No one's fighting? Why do people instantly assume any sort of discussion is instantly a heated debate by two long date rivals that needs to be stopped by mods?

People are just presenting arguments, some are more heated/defensive than others while doing it but honestly I take no offense in it. We're discussing the game, the quality and the release dates or lack thereof but people have created such an aversion for criticism or debates or being confronted about something to a point where any time someone doesn't agree with you or praise you, they're instantly negative. Now more than I've never seen in my life.

When did we all become special snowflakes that don't make mistakes? Anything people don't like is "intolerant" or "toxic". When did we become so susceptible to criticism? Isn't that how we improved as a race to begin with? Adversity? If you cared about the game you'd actually want the dev to answer those concerns instead of saying his farts smell like fabreeze. How will he change and learn if every time he takes a shit you say it's perfect?

Fuck. You're not supporting him, you're actually killing his game with a smile on your face.
 
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decimad

Member
Dec 17, 2017
155
143
Fuck. You're not supporting him, you're actually killing his game with a smile on your face.

The smartest thing I've read the past 30 posts.
And people dont even realize that with continously praising him for his updates, you actually make things worse.

Give credit where credit is due, but stop saying everything is great.
I've pumped over 180$ to support him - for what?

That updates, albeit being the same in size and content, now take suddenly 3-4 months instead of one.

All fine by me - not supporting that anymore.

Dont dont put on your halo and say Its way better than most others devs because its not.
Look at big developer, they get big, they get help. Thats why they're successful after a long period of time.
 
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Ayame#1Fan

Active Member
Nov 8, 2016
898
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Exactly. The dev of Fleeting Iris for instance. People give him a lot of criticism on Discord, almost on a daily basis. I personally have shared my concerns with him privately on Discord plenty of times and guess what? Instead of being butt hurt about it, he addresses them. He wants to improve and takes criticism to heart.

I can show you data where people said "I think this scene has an issue like the chin is too long" or "this part of the game is easy to get lost" or whatever really, and they always address most concerns or give you some feedback as to why they decided to do that. The last example happened two days ago or so. The Dev spoiled this:



I mentioned that something was odd about her face, his own team member said this:

1578663551638.png

That's their PR! They were even criticized by their own team! Lo and behold:



That's how criticism works! Not destructive but constructive and if it's presented well and if it's taken professionally, it leads to improvements.

Saying everything someone does is good is anything but helpful, regardless if your intentions are good or not and I have no doubt in my mind you have but the best intentions, but you are not helping, you're actually being detrimental.
 
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Thickgravy49

Active Member
Jul 24, 2017
859
2,123
So, let's have a think about this...

Patreon isn't any kind of store...
You've got guys producing a product and accepting payment, yet they say they're not selling anything...
Additionally, there are other guys sending the producer real money, yet they're not buying anything...

Mmm...:unsure::sneaky:
 

goobdoob

Conversation Conqueror
Modder
Respected User
Dec 17, 2017
7,426
9,693
So, let's have a think about this...

Patreon isn't any kind of store...
You've got guys producing a product and accepting payment, yet they say they're not selling anything...
Additionally, there are other guys sending the producer real money, yet they're not buying anything...

Mmm...:unsure::sneaky:
The Patreon model isn't a transaction; it's donating to a developer to support them.



"In the history of art, arts patronage refers to the support that kings, popes, and the wealthy have provided to artists such as musicians, painters, and sculptors."
 

Thickgravy49

Active Member
Jul 24, 2017
859
2,123
The Patreon model isn't a transaction; it's donating to a developer to support them.



"In the history of art, arts patronage refers to the support that kings, popes, and the wealthy have provided to artists such as musicians, painters, and sculptors."
What's the difference?
If money's changing hands, it's a transaction.
Sorry, Goob, but I'm just not buying it(no pun intended).
 
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cold_arctus

Devoted Member
Sep 25, 2018
8,944
10,832
So, let's have a think about this...

Patreon isn't any kind of store...
You've got guys producing a product and accepting payment, yet they say they're not selling anything...
Additionally, there are other guys sending the producer real money, yet they're not buying anything...

Mmm...:unsure::sneaky:
The fundamental understanding is wrong. Devs don't receive "payments" it is support/donations from people. In return some devs are willing to return the favor by sharing "beta" releases aka early-access to their supporters. Keep in mind they don't need to do that, they could release single renders or be quiet for 5+ years and hopefully release something then - no guaranty (see Gumdrop)!

I'm not a supporter of Deepsleep or any other dev out there. Supporting a dev with $1 - $5 per month is acceptable, everything above that is ridiculous imo, because the amount of money per update or development time isn't equal in terms of what you get in return.

As soon as the game has been officially published online to buy in a store for $20 - $30 it would be a fair price for me.

About piracy: I would be a hypocrite if I say it is piracy's fault for dev's low numbers of supporters, but it isn't always the case. Thanks to Unity's Analytics tool I know that approximate 90 to 100 thousand people worldwide play a certain game, even more for popular games as Milfy City, Summertime Saga etc. If every single player would donate a single buck as soon as they download the game a dev could easily survive. A buck per update looks reasonable compare to $25+ monthly. This way a dev still could renew his rig and maybe hire people for doing other tasks.

But even then, people would demand faster updates with more numbers of renders and animation and still would complain about "small" updates. They think it is enough to have a powerful rig to render, but it isn't! Render time isn't an issue at all, post-production is! Means, doing all the shitty work with Photoshop. And yes, many "successful" devs don't do that in their games (looking at you WVM - [Braindrop]).

Because of all of that I started to avoid playing update by update and pushed games further and further behind. Now I'm less "addicted" to games and updates as when I was waiting for each update - also, assist other game developer helped to get a better understanding how development (coding, render creating, etc.) works "behind the scene".

Sorry for the wall of text.. I simply wanted to get something off my chest which isn't directly pointed to you personally. :)
 
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Ric

Well-Known Member
Oct 21, 2016
1,961
3,958
So, let's have a think about this...

Patreon isn't any kind of store...
You've got guys producing a product and accepting payment, yet they say they're not selling anything...
Additionally, there are other guys sending the producer real money, yet they're not buying anything...

Mmm...:unsure::sneaky:
What's the difference?
If money's changing hands, it's a transaction.
Sorry, Goob, but I'm just not buying it(no pun intended).
The answer to all this has long been given. Read what crowdfunding is.




etc...

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.
 

slightchance

Active Member
Mar 25, 2018
937
1,815
"In the history of art, arts patronage refers to the support that kings, popes, and the wealthy have provided to artists such as musicians, painters, and sculptors."
Spend only $1 to become a king! What a time to be alive.

"Mr. Simoni, I, and by that I mean the Sacred College, am very pleased with the work that you've done so far in the Chapel. I am not here with ill contempt or to pressure you into something that surely takes time as well as God's blessings, but could you tell us when you'll be able to paint the second part of the ceiling?"

"Guiliano, or whatever your name is, you didn't buy me, okay? I am taking some time off to finish some very sexy statues. And your donation will only get you so far, capisce?"

"Ah, but what about the Sistine Chapel, Michelangelo? We can't open it to the public in this unfinished state!? I can call you Michelangelo, right?"

"Those things take time, old man. Perhaps if you would donate more, I'd consider buying a second brush. No promises though."
 
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