3.90 star(s) 31 Votes

Nafig

Member
Oct 14, 2020
131
323
ALWL is good value. There is a lot of plot twists in it. The wife is a bit of a bimbo at times but that's okay. The couple actually swings... Babysitters is good.

I'm not sure why AMW didn't introduce a couple of couples to swing with at the bars instead of all these singles. A swingers game is pretty hard to mess up if you actually put some swingers together to swing... The two other couples in the game, one has no sex and the other couple just wants solo play or threesomes. It really makes no sense to me why the fuck they just don't actually swing when you advertise the game as "a choice-driven adult visual novel focusing on the swinger lifestyle." We have Steph's reveal and then Steph's trip away and then the end. Not much room for any actual swinging...
Alternatively, deliberate deception of the audience. Negative advertising is also advertising.
My daughter is into indie horror games. I told her how different the proposal of the authors of this game is from reality. As they explained to us, this is “creativity” and not deception. She gave this example. There is an author on Steam called Scott Cawthon, he makes horror games. The audience perceived one of his games as “not scary enough.” He didn’t “suddenly” make a comedy, no, it’s just not scary enough. Scott Cawthon stopped short of saying that players made poor choices in the game. Scott Cawthon did not say: “you’ll see the update and immediately get scared.” Scott Cawthon did not say that players do not understand the entire plot. No. He acted honestly and professionally. Scott Cawthon did three things:
1. He apologized to the audience.
2. He returned the money to those who bought the game.
3. He made the game freely available.
Shall we compare authors?
 

Grumpy Old Aussie

Engaged Member
May 6, 2023
2,044
4,153
Alternatively, deliberate deception of the audience. Negative advertising is also advertising.
My daughter is into indie horror games. I told her how different the proposal of the authors of this game is from reality. As they explained to us, this is “creativity” and not deception. She gave this example. There is an author on Steam called Scott Cawthon, he makes horror games. The audience perceived one of his games as “not scary enough.” He didn’t “suddenly” make a comedy, no, it’s just not scary enough. Scott Cawthon stopped short of saying that players made poor choices in the game. Scott Cawthon did not say: “you’ll see the update and immediately get scared.” Scott Cawthon did not say that players do not understand the entire plot. No. He acted honestly and professionally. Scott Cawthon did three things:
1. He apologized to the audience.
2. He returned the money to those who bought the game.
3. He made the game freely available.
Shall we compare authors?
Interesting. My youngest is in to horror. Its not my thing but she loves it for some reason.

Next is the reveal, then MC meeting Tori (no idea what Steph will do), then there are multiple scenes for Steph's trip. If we are near the end of the game, I don't see how there is a possibility of any swinging, just solo play which contradicts all the dialogue that says they will only do things together and the trust diatribes, etc. The dialogue and the actions are still not matching up. Then the dev wonders why we think Steph is a liar/cheat/untrustworthy. Its a head spin.
 

asahibito

Active Member
Modder
Jan 17, 2021
583
1,649
ALWL is good value. There is a lot of plot twists in it. The wife is a bit of a bimbo at times but that's okay. The couple actually swings... Babysitters is good.

I'm not sure why AMW didn't introduce a couple of couples to swing with at the bars instead of all these singles. A swingers game is pretty hard to mess up if you actually put some swingers together to swing... The two other couples in the game, one has no sex and the other couple just wants solo play or threesomes. It really makes no sense to me why the fuck they just don't actually swing when you advertise the game as "a choice-driven adult visual novel focusing on the swinger lifestyle." We have Steph's reveal and then Steph's trip away and then the end. Not much room for any actual swinging...
Well… the last scene could be the couple at a park near their home swinging on a swing :ROFLMAO:
 

Nurikabe

Well-Known Member
Feb 10, 2021
1,328
2,868
Interesting. My youngest is in to horror. Its not my thing but she loves it for some reason.

Next is the reveal, then MC meeting Tori (no idea what Steph will do), then there are multiple scenes for Steph's trip. If we are near the end of the game, I don't see how there is a possibility of any swinging, just solo play which contradicts all the dialogue that says they will only do things together and the trust diatribes, etc. The dialogue and the actions are still not matching up. Then the dev wonders why we think Steph is a liar/cheat/untrustworthy. Its a head spin.
Horror is the best! The Nun II just got released on HBO Max. It was awesome!

I am replying to you, my friend, because I wanted to talk about horror! but the rest is for the general thread.


The problem in the VN is the way "swinging" is being used. "Swinging" is an umbrella term that encompasses a large lifestyle of sexual behaviors. The acts that the devs use in this VN are indeed considered swinging. But everyone these days has their own goddamn definition of everything. Their personal definition of cuckolding, of NTR, of toxic behavior. Just this evening I saw a post from a guy asking if a VN had NTR in it. When it was explained that there was not and what was portrayed in the VN, he said that it was NTR based on his personal definition.

Definitions aren't personal. We have a huge book that has all the definitions in it. And for the more modern folks, there is a website dedicated to explaining definitions of more 'slang' and 'urban' usage of words. We use definitions so that everyone knows what the hell another person is talking about. Otherwise, what is the point?

In this case, swinging is ethical non-monogamy with the exchanging of one or both partners. If you get in the weeds, there is hard and soft swinging. Open relationships are part of that lifestyle. "Sharing" is part of swinging. Swinging is a lot of things. It is not subject to someone's personal definition. Now, what a person does in their own home with their own lives and what they want to call it is completely up to them. But when communicating with other human beings, personal definitions don't mean shit.

This VN is specifically about having an open relationship. Having one or both partners have sex with someone else with full knowledge and consent of the other partner. That, my dear fellow sympathizers, is swinging. It may not be your type of swinging. But it is swinging. And that seems to be the biggest rub in most of the current complaints. Once you accept that this game is about open relationships, a form of swinging, then you'll be fine. You can choose to continue to patronize the VN or look for something more up your alley.

It is what it is.
 
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Grumpy Old Aussie

Engaged Member
May 6, 2023
2,044
4,153
Horror is the best! The Nun II just got released on HBO Max. It was awesome!

I am replying to you, my friend, because I wanted to talk about horror! but the rest is for the general thread.


The problem in the VN is the way "swinging" is being used. "Swinging" is an umbrella term that encompasses a large lifestyle of sexual behaviors. The acts that the devs use in this VN are indeed considered swinging. But everyone these days has their own goddamn definition of everything. Their personal definition of cuckolding, of NTR, of toxic behavior. Just this evening I saw a post from a guy asking if a VN had NTR in it. When it was explained that there was not and what was portrayed in the VN, he said that it was NTR based on his personal definition.

Definitions aren't personal. We have a huge book that has all the definitions in it. And for the more modern folks, there is a website dedicated to explaining definitions of more 'slang' and 'urban' usage of words. We use definitions so that everyone knows what the hell another person is talking about. Otherwise, what is the point?

In this case, swinging is ethical non-monogamy with the exchanging of one or both partners. If you get in the weeds, there is hard and soft swinging. Open relationships are part of that lifestyle. "Sharing" is part of swinging. Swinging is a lot of things. It is not subject to someone's personal definition. Now, what a person does in their own home with their own lives and what they want to call it is completely up to them. But when communicating with other human beings, personal definitions don't mean shit.

This VN is specifically about having an open relationship. Having one or both partners have sex with someone else with full knowledge and consent of the other partner. That, my dear fellow sympathizers, is swinging. It may not be your type of swinging. But it is swinging. And that seems to be the biggest rub in most of the current complaints. Once you accept that this game is about open relationships, a form of swinging, then you'll be fine. You can choose to continue to patronize the VN or look for something more up your alley.

It is what it is.
I get your point, you are right technically but I have to disagree the application of it in this case is not misleading. Its a rare occurrence when we disagree lol.

Lifestyle definitions are evolving definitions, not static definitions. Swinging and cuckoldry in particular are no longer defined the way they once were. Example definitions of swinging:
Dictionary.com 1. the act or practice of being free and uninhibited sexually. 2. the exchanging of spouses for sex.
American Heritage Dictionary - Sexually promiscuous.

If dictionaries can't agree on the definition how is everyone else? Simple, you go with the commonly understood meaning.

I agree swinging is part of open relationships and it is certainly Ethical non-monogamy (some good books on that around) and I agree it is sharing, but I find that such a broad definition of swinging you have put forward as problematic. Its not a definition that is common or understood in that way. Hence why many of us have a different view.

If AMW is about an open relationships then why not say that and solve the problem? Open relationships a broad umbrella. Why advertise it as a swinging game knowing full well the connotation for a majority of people is couples swapping partners (aka popularly called swinging)? Its misleading. Its not a matter of a technical definition, its matter of what the majority of your audience understands is swinging.

I have never heard swinging used to describe a couple playing in separate places, different rooms yes, but different cities? That is heading in to hotwife/cuckold/stag vixen territory. Its no longer looked upon as swinging. The dev has said the game is going in to cuck territory on low confidence. Cuckoldry is just not identified as swinging. Its misleading.

That is my thoughts.
 

Nafig

Member
Oct 14, 2020
131
323
I get your point, you are right technically but I have to disagree the application of it in this case is not misleading. Its a rare occurrence when we disagree lol.

Lifestyle definitions are evolving definitions, not static definitions. Swinging and cuckoldry in particular are no longer defined the way they once were. Example definitions of swinging:
Dictionary.com 1. the act or practice of being free and uninhibited sexually. 2. the exchanging of spouses for sex.
American Heritage Dictionary - Sexually promiscuous.

If dictionaries can't agree on the definition how is everyone else? Simple, you go with the commonly understood meaning.

I agree swinging is part of open relationships and it is certainly Ethical non-monogamy (some good books on that around) and I agree it is sharing, but I find that such a broad definition of swinging you have put forward as problematic. Its not a definition that is common or understood in that way. Hence why many of us have a different view.

If AMW is about an open relationships then why not say that and solve the problem? Open relationships a broad umbrella. Why advertise it as a swinging game knowing full well the connotation for a majority of people is couples swapping partners (aka popularly called swinging)? Its misleading. Its not a matter of a technical definition, its matter of what the majority of your audience understands is swinging.

I have never heard swinging used to describe a couple playing in separate places, different rooms yes, but different cities? That is heading in to hotwife/cuckold/stag vixen territory. Its no longer looked upon as swinging. The dev has said the game is going in to cuck territory on low confidence. Cuckoldry is just not identified as swinging. Its misleading.

That is my thoughts.
I support.
Swing is a mutual exchange of regular partners to obtain additional sexual satisfaction.
Types of swing
Soft swing - a type of swing in which couples, without exchanging partners, have sex in close proximity to each other.
Closed swing is a type of swing in which couples, having exchanged partners, have sex separately, without being able to see each other.
Open swing is a type of swing in which couples, having also exchanged partners, have sex in close proximity to each other.
The key meaning is “a couple together in one event.” They may be in different rooms, but at the same event.
 
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Pr0GamerJohnny

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Sep 7, 2022
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I get your point, you are right technically but I have to disagree the application of it in this case is not misleading. Its a rare occurrence when we disagree lol.

Lifestyle definitions are evolving definitions, not static definitions. Swinging and cuckoldry in particular are no longer defined the way they once were. Example definitions of swinging:
Dictionary.com 1. the act or practice of being free and uninhibited sexually. 2. the exchanging of spouses for sex.
American Heritage Dictionary - Sexually promiscuous.

If dictionaries can't agree on the definition how is everyone else? Simple, you go with the commonly understood meaning.

I agree swinging is part of open relationships and it is certainly Ethical non-monogamy (some good books on that around) and I agree it is sharing, but I find that such a broad definition of swinging you have put forward as problematic. Its not a definition that is common or understood in that way. Hence why many of us have a different view.

If AMW is about an open relationships then why not say that and solve the problem? Open relationships a broad umbrella. Why advertise it as a swinging game knowing full well the connotation for a majority of people is couples swapping partners (aka popularly called swinging)? Its misleading. Its not a matter of a technical definition, its matter of what the majority of your audience understands is swinging.

I have never heard swinging used to describe a couple playing in separate places, different rooms yes, but different cities? That is heading in to hotwife/cuckold/stag vixen territory. Its no longer looked upon as swinging. The dev has said the game is going in to cuck territory on low confidence. Cuckoldry is just not identified as swinging. Its misleading.

That is my thoughts.
I support.
Swing is a mutual exchange of regular partners to obtain additional sexual satisfaction.
Types of swing
Soft swing - a type of swing in which couples, without exchanging partners, have sex in close proximity to each other.
Closed swing is a type of swing in which couples, having exchanged partners, have sex separately, without being able to see each other.
Open swing is a type of swing in which couples, having also exchanged partners, have sex in close proximity to each other.
The key meaning is “a couple together in one event.” They may be in different rooms, but at the same event.
I would posit things like hotwife/cuckold/stag vixen fall under the broader swinger umbrella in the real world definition. As I posted 20-30 pages back, the real issue is devs and players of games have this obsession with an idea of something that very rarely occurs in the real world; a wife cheating on a husband, and him enjoying it without having any say in the matter.

Before someone says "well tastes are diverse you dont know what everyone likes blah blah blah"....here's the thing, the scenario the ntr gamers love sees the wife scorning/deceiving and walking all over the husband. In the real world, there are certainly women that do that, but they won't stay with that guy for long because they aren't attracted to them nor respect them. (Yes, there are rare cases where a woman hates her husband and fucks around but wont break up because of security or money or whatever).

As any guy who's been in relationships knows, one of the first things that goes out the window when a woman doesnt like or respect you is her willingness to communicate about sexuality. Those two things are like water and oil. Oh, she might fuck around on you, but she's not gonna fill you in.

So I don't think having broad definitions is as much as a problem because a person off the street could easily conflate swinging and hotwifing - the problem is these games are talking about subjects that almost exclusively occur in fantasyland. Even the real world variant of cuckolding with humilation is, as I understand it, largely roleplay based. The wife isn't ACTUALLY saying her husband is a loser who cant satisfy her, it's just dirty talk in the moment that they both enjoy. If she's saying that and MEANS it, then she wouldn't be in a relationship with him, it's not rocket science.
 

Nurikabe

Well-Known Member
Feb 10, 2021
1,328
2,868
I get your point, you are right technically but I have to disagree the application of it in this case is not misleading. Its a rare occurrence when we disagree lol.

Lifestyle definitions are evolving definitions, not static definitions. Swinging and cuckoldry in particular are no longer defined the way they once were. Example definitions of swinging:
Dictionary.com 1. the act or practice of being free and uninhibited sexually. 2. the exchanging of spouses for sex.
American Heritage Dictionary - Sexually promiscuous.

If dictionaries can't agree on the definition how is everyone else? Simple, you go with the commonly understood meaning.

I agree swinging is part of open relationships and it is certainly Ethical non-monogamy (some good books on that around) and I agree it is sharing, but I find that such a broad definition of swinging you have put forward as problematic. Its not a definition that is common or understood in that way. Hence why many of us have a different view.

If AMW is about an open relationships then why not say that and solve the problem? Open relationships a broad umbrella. Why advertise it as a swinging game knowing full well the connotation for a majority of people is couples swapping partners (aka popularly called swinging)? Its misleading. Its not a matter of a technical definition, its matter of what the majority of your audience understands is swinging.

I have never heard swinging used to describe a couple playing in separate places, different rooms yes, but different cities? That is heading in to hotwife/cuckold/stag vixen territory. Its no longer looked upon as swinging. The dev has said the game is going in to cuck territory on low confidence. Cuckoldry is just not identified as swinging. Its misleading.

That is my thoughts.
You are absolutely right that definitions are forever changing. Our language is evolving (or devolving) constantly. Reading your explanation or what you consider swinging brings up another area where language can differ from practice, which is cultural practice. In North America, swingers often participate as a couple or solo, at the same time and place, or at a different time and place. To throw another umbrella term into the muddled mess, that is all part of the "lifestyle." There is more language we need to add here to understand those important distinctions.

"Shared room" and "separate room", have obvious meanings. But they have practices that can be counterintuitive to someone unfamiliar with lifestyle terminology. Shared room is more obvious and simply means the same time and same place. Separate room can mean not being at the same time and not in the same place. People practicing any type of swinging have many names for the acts they participate in. Someone might call separate room swapping hotwifing, cuckolding, or stag/vixen. But others have no problem considering part of swinging. Often, what distinguishes those specific types of swinging is psychological and behavior. how the wife and husband are treated. The acts are typically the same, and shared room and separate room also apply here.

It is all confusing because despite what a thing is defined as, people participate according to personal values and desires. Definitions still stand and are appropriate. Practical use may vary. What you may call it in your home can be entirely up to you. We live in a time where nothing can be discussed in a simple manner. Everyone has their own definitions and their own practices. What they want to call themselves, regardless of what society calls them, is up to the individual (e.g. Swinger, Cuckold, Hotwife). That is wonderful but a problem when communicating with others. If everyone uses their own definitions or when discussing similar phenomena with different cultural practices, things get messy.

The devs do throw a lot at the player. On one end of the spectrum, there is the open relationship. On the other end, there is the cuckold. That is another area where participants on this thread share complaints. Up to the latest update, all of the action that takes place falls under swinging. We can call the low confident path cuckolding even though the MC participates in the threesome with his wife, simply because of the behavior that takes place during the act. The wife and partner use humiliation, comparison, and other tactics that are considered to be under the umbrella of cuckolding. It is all about perception.

The devs could clear it all up and specifically state exactly what is happening. Even then, there will be people who claim it isn't what they say it is all due to the use of personal definitions and practice. Or what one community calls it versus another. Pretty complicated stuff.
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TL;DR —Whether people consider it swinging or not is typically due to differences in individual and cultural practices. Swinging is not necessarily a mutual swapping of partners. While that is commonly the layperson's understanding and representation of the lifestyle, it is incorrect. There are much more complicated psychological and behavioral processes happening. Open relationship is the most appropriate description for some of the action in the VN. Open relationships fall under the umbrella of swinging. Swinging is part of this VN, although particular paths have morphed into a specific cuckolding path. The devs' description that this VN involves swinging is accurate (while not complete nor is it required to be).
 
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Nafig

Member
Oct 14, 2020
131
323
You are absolutely right that definitions are forever changing. Our language is evolving (or devolving) constantly. Reading your explanation or what you consider swinging brings up another area where language can differ from practice, which is cultural practice. In North America, swingers often participate as a couple or solo, at the same time and place, or at a different time and place. To throw another umbrella term into the muddled mess, that is all part of the "lifestyle." There is more language we need to add here to understand those important distinctions.

"Shared room" and "separate room", have obvious meanings. But they have practices that can be counterintuitive to someone unfamiliar with lifestyle terminology. Shared room is more obvious and simply means the same time and same place. Separate room can mean not being at the same time and not in the same place. People practicing any type of swinging have many names for the acts they participate in. Someone might call separate room swapping hotwifing, cuckolding, or stag/vixen. But others have no problem considering part of swinging. Often, what distinguishes those specific types of swinging is psychological and behavior. how the wife and husband are treated. The acts are typically the same, and shared room and separate room also apply here.

It is all confusing because despite what a thing is defined as, people participate according to personal values and desires. Definitions still stand and are appropriate. Practical use may vary. What you may call it in your home can be entirely up to you. We live in a time where nothing can be discussed in a simple manner. Everyone has their own definitions and their own practices. What they want to call themselves, regardless of what society calls them, is up to the individual (e.g. Swinger, Cuckold, Hotwife). That is wonderful but a problem when communicating with others. If everyone uses their own definitions or when discussing similar phenomena with different cultural practices, things get messy.

The devs do throw a lot at the player. On one end of the spectrum, there is the open relationship. On the other end, there is the cuckold. That is another area where participants on this thread share complaints. Up to the latest update, all of the action that takes place falls under swinging. We can call the low confident path cuckolding even though the MC participates in the threesome with his wife, simply because of the behavior that takes place during the act. The wife and partner use humiliation, comparison, and other tactics that are considered to be under the umbrella of cuckolding. It is all about perception.

The devs could clear it all up and specifically state exactly what is happening. Even then, there will be people who claim it isn't what they say it is all due to the use of personal definitions and practice. Or what one community calls it versus another. Pretty complicated stuff.
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TL;DR —Whether people consider it swinging or not is typically due to differences in individual and cultural practices. Swinging is not necessarily a mutual swapping of partners. While that is commonly the layperson's understanding and representation of the lifestyle, it is incorrect. There are much more complicated psychological and behavioral processes happening. Open relationship is the most appropriate description for some of the action in the VN. Open relationships fall under the umbrella of swinging. Swinging is part of this VN, although particular paths have morphed into a specific cuckolding path. The devs' description that this VN involves swinging is accurate (while not complete nor is it required to be).
In my opinion, the entire range of actions included in the concept of “swing”, which are described on the last few pages, is suitable only for specialists. For non-specialist players, “swing” is the definition of the game genre. In this sense, the term should have a narrower, more understandable meaning. The way you define it, its boundaries are blurred. It is impossible to accurately determine the content of the game. It becomes meaningless for a non-specialist. It seems to me that a definition closer to the generally accepted one should be used. It may be necessary to expand the list of genres; concepts should not allow for wide variations in interpretation.
Can of worms.
I'm not against ntr, but for me he is in this game. In my opinion, you can't define the ntr genre by one single action. Look at how many options of actions you have included in the “swing”, and determine ntr from one event. Example script:
1. The villain steals MC's wife.
2. Happy MC throws a party.
3. The party ends with the MC having sex with ten beauties.
4. In the morning MS goes to work.
5. At work, the villain shows MC a video of him fucking MC's wife.
6. In response, MC shows the villain a video from his party.
7. The next day, MC continues to have fun with other girls, not thinking about his wife.
Is this ntr? I'm sure not. For this script to become an ntr, other pieces of the puzzle are needed.
1. The MC is not the initiator of events, except for the first one, with which everything begins (the rhetorical “yes” in the dialogue, “yes or game over”).
2. The MC follows all his wife’s orders (passive “yes” or passive “I don’t mind”).
3. The MC does not defend his interests or his opinion, does not argue.
4. Agreements with MS are not fulfilled or changed (passive “yes” or passive “I don’t mind”).
5. The MS is unable to do anything if events begin to move “not according to plan” (putting his hand into a pan of boiling water, the MS does not pull his hand away).
6. MS does not affect the wife’s actions.
7. The wife behaves duplicitously and hypocritically towards the MS (double standards, secrets).
8. MC can't get rid of his wife.
That's why, for me, the game contains ntr. This is confirmed by the large audience that sees Ntr in the game. You rely on the “letter” of the definition of ntr, we see the “spirit” of ntr.
Something like this.
 

Grumpy Old Aussie

Engaged Member
May 6, 2023
2,044
4,153
Updated the walkthrough mod with the ability to name saves.

View attachment 3047747

Mod Post:
Another Man's Wife Walkthrough + Alt End
You are a damn legend my friend. This should be built in to the renpy platform for all games!

I'll have to learn how to do that. I've been slacking off of late, too much going on.

This is all too confusing for me
All I know is I want to make sweet tender love to Steph

I would also like to buy her some red roses as a sign of my love for her
You're right Joshy, you don't need to make sense of it mate. Play what you like and enjoy it. (y)

You don't need to consider the ins and outs of the devs definitions. Some of us are weird and like to do it for various reasons (like being budding devs or have backgrounds in human behaviour, etc) so we like to engage in fun debates like this and challenging each other. Its all good.

Just ignore the debate and dream of Steph and your straw driven habits. We will be on that topic again soon enough mate. :p
 

asahibito

Active Member
Modder
Jan 17, 2021
583
1,649
You are a damn legend my friend. This should be built in to the renpy platform for all games!

I'll have to learn how to do that. I've been slacking off of late, too much going on.
The actual software support is already built into renpy, at least for the v7.x+ games I have modded so far. All I did was to add the text input. I am puzzled as to why it is not just there by default especially given the frequent requests by players.
 

Grumpy Old Aussie

Engaged Member
May 6, 2023
2,044
4,153
The actual software support is already built into renpy, at least for the v7.x+ games I have modded so far. All I did was to add the text input. I am puzzled as to why it is not just there by default especially given the frequent requests by players.
Agree. When I'm feeling a bit better, I had surgery today, I'll have to have a chat with you about that. I have a few reasons for mastering saved games.

I would posit things like hotwife/cuckold/stag vixen fall under the broader swinger umbrella in the real world definition. As I posted 20-30 pages back, the real issue is devs and players of games have this obsession with an idea of something that very rarely occurs in the real world; a wife cheating on a husband, and him enjoying it without having any say in the matter.

Before someone says "well tastes are diverse you dont know what everyone likes blah blah blah"....here's the thing, the scenario the ntr gamers love sees the wife scorning/deceiving and walking all over the husband. In the real world, there are certainly women that do that, but they won't stay with that guy for long because they aren't attracted to them nor respect them. (Yes, there are rare cases where a woman hates her husband and fucks around but wont break up because of security or money or whatever).

As any guy who's been in relationships knows, one of the first things that goes out the window when a woman doesnt like or respect you is her willingness to communicate about sexuality. Those two things are like water and oil. Oh, she might fuck around on you, but she's not gonna fill you in.

So I don't think having broad definitions is as much as a problem because a person off the street could easily conflate swinging and hotwifing - the problem is these games are talking about subjects that almost exclusively occur in fantasyland. Even the real world variant of cuckolding with humilation is, as I understand it, largely roleplay based. The wife isn't ACTUALLY saying her husband is a loser who cant satisfy her, it's just dirty talk in the moment that they both enjoy. If she's saying that and MEANS it, then she wouldn't be in a relationship with him, it's not rocket science.
I admit to being swayed by yours and Nurikabe's arguments. There are female led relationships that work, where the woman disrespects the husband (outside of roleplay) and he loves it and the couple have a solid relationship. In saying that, they are extremely rare, and a lot of different factors have to come together for it to happen. You are right, 99.9999% of when a woman no longer respects a man the writing is on the wall, and things like money and kids can slow down the inevitable.

You are absolutely right that definitions are forever changing. Our language is evolving (or devolving) constantly. Reading your explanation or what you consider swinging brings up another area where language can differ from practice, which is cultural practice. In North America, swingers often participate as a couple or solo, at the same time and place, or at a different time and place. To throw another umbrella term into the muddled mess, that is all part of the "lifestyle." There is more language we need to add here to understand those important distinctions.

"Shared room" and "separate room", have obvious meanings. But they have practices that can be counterintuitive to someone unfamiliar with lifestyle terminology. Shared room is more obvious and simply means the same time and same place. Separate room can mean not being at the same time and not in the same place. People practicing any type of swinging have many names for the acts they participate in. Someone might call separate room swapping hotwifing, cuckolding, or stag/vixen. But others have no problem considering part of swinging. Often, what distinguishes those specific types of swinging is psychological and behavior. how the wife and husband are treated. The acts are typically the same, and shared room and separate room also apply here.

It is all confusing because despite what a thing is defined as, people participate according to personal values and desires. Definitions still stand and are appropriate. Practical use may vary. What you may call it in your home can be entirely up to you. We live in a time where nothing can be discussed in a simple manner. Everyone has their own definitions and their own practices. What they want to call themselves, regardless of what society calls them, is up to the individual (e.g. Swinger, Cuckold, Hotwife). That is wonderful but a problem when communicating with others. If everyone uses their own definitions or when discussing similar phenomena with different cultural practices, things get messy.

The devs do throw a lot at the player. On one end of the spectrum, there is the open relationship. On the other end, there is the cuckold. That is another area where participants on this thread share complaints. Up to the latest update, all of the action that takes place falls under swinging. We can call the low confident path cuckolding even though the MC participates in the threesome with his wife, simply because of the behavior that takes place during the act. The wife and partner use humiliation, comparison, and other tactics that are considered to be under the umbrella of cuckolding. It is all about perception.

The devs could clear it all up and specifically state exactly what is happening. Even then, there will be people who claim it isn't what they say it is all due to the use of personal definitions and practice. Or what one community calls it versus another. Pretty complicated stuff.
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TL;DR —Whether people consider it swinging or not is typically due to differences in individual and cultural practices. Swinging is not necessarily a mutual swapping of partners. While that is commonly the layperson's understanding and representation of the lifestyle, it is incorrect. There are much more complicated psychological and behavioral processes happening. Open relationship is the most appropriate description for some of the action in the VN. Open relationships fall under the umbrella of swinging. Swinging is part of this VN, although particular paths have morphed into a specific cuckolding path. The devs' description that this VN involves swinging is accurate (while not complete nor is it required to be).
I'm swayed by yours and Johnny's arguments enough to give the devs a reluctant pass. My definitions are coloured by my lifestyle experience and research. My original definitions changed a lot with time to the that of the wider community. My definitions aren't just personal theories, or formed in a vacuum, but accepted lifestyle interpretations. My mistake is accepting these as the standard. They are the standard for my community, but not everyone.

I should not be surprised the dev should have a different definition as he does for so many things in this game.

In my opinion, the entire range of actions included in the concept of “swing”, which are described on the last few pages, is suitable only for specialists. For non-specialist players, “swing” is the definition of the game genre. In this sense, the term should have a narrower, more understandable meaning. The way you define it, its boundaries are blurred. It is impossible to accurately determine the content of the game. It becomes meaningless for a non-specialist. It seems to me that a definition closer to the generally accepted one should be used. It may be necessary to expand the list of genres; concepts should not allow for wide variations in interpretation.
Can of worms.
I'm not against ntr, but for me he is in this game. In my opinion, you can't define the ntr genre by one single action. Look at how many options of actions you have included in the “swing”, and determine ntr from one event. Example script:
1. The villain steals MC's wife.
2. Happy MC throws a party.
3. The party ends with the MC having sex with ten beauties.
4. In the morning MS goes to work.
5. At work, the villain shows MC a video of him fucking MC's wife.
6. In response, MC shows the villain a video from his party.
7. The next day, MC continues to have fun with other girls, not thinking about his wife.
Is this ntr? I'm sure not. For this script to become an ntr, other pieces of the puzzle are needed.
1. The MC is not the initiator of events, except for the first one, with which everything begins (the rhetorical “yes” in the dialogue, “yes or game over”).
2. The MC follows all his wife’s orders (passive “yes” or passive “I don’t mind”).
3. The MC does not defend his interests or his opinion, does not argue.
4. Agreements with MS are not fulfilled or changed (passive “yes” or passive “I don’t mind”).
5. The MS is unable to do anything if events begin to move “not according to plan” (putting his hand into a pan of boiling water, the MS does not pull his hand away).
6. MS does not affect the wife’s actions.
7. The wife behaves duplicitously and hypocritically towards the MS (double standards, secrets).
8. MC can't get rid of his wife.
That's why, for me, the game contains ntr. This is confirmed by the large audience that sees Ntr in the game. You rely on the “letter” of the definition of ntr, we see the “spirit” of ntr.
Something like this.
I enjoyed your post, it raises an interesting view of AMW and NTR. If things were different on this forum and people could have a civil debate, I'd love to pursue it. I just don't want to open the NTR can of worms again when have just finished going down that path. People just don't seem to be able to play nice on the topic.
 
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Grumpy Old Aussie

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May 6, 2023
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How you got to those scenes? i've played it a lot of times but still can get those
The pool scene won't be accessible until Steph goes away on her business trip. A sample pool render is shown on Steam where Steph approaches an African American guy in the pool and says "Oh definitely pleasure".

The references to Jamal and Tyrone are a joke, it was just a few of us having some fun with the game.

I hope that clears it up for you.
 
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