- Jun 22, 2019
- 1,193
- 3,142
This was clear to me back when they announced that there would only be good endings)
This meant that choices don't really matter and the MC would "be happy" no matter what Steph does.
This meant that choices don't really matter and the MC would "be happy" no matter what Steph does.
- May 6, 2023
- 2,332
- 4,880
Yeah it is a big problem. I did try and talk about choices and the player being able to make the big decisions but it fell on deaf ears. They are telling a story and we only get to make a few decisions for the MC on the way. Sorry but watching from the sidelines making minor decisions is going to get pretty dull. I want my MC to be in the middle of the story making the tough decisions, not be a bystander who misses half the story. The dev was adamant MC is totally loyal to his Friday night promise no matter what Steph does. Its ridiculous and I said so. I don't expect him to change things just for me, but I hope I at least made him think about things and hopefully make some changes but at this stage it doesn't seem it will happen.
The biggest surprise for me more than Stephs reveal is Tori is supposedly helping Steph with her issues. What Tori is proposing will not help a marriage with problems, it will destroy it, but since the devs are stacking the deck and the MC will be joyous no matter what Steph does or Tori gets her to do, it doesn't matter and makes the story pretty pointless. We already know the ending.
- May 6, 2023
- 2,332
- 4,880
New response from the devs and hopefully a chance to clarify some things. Of course I responded that I would welcome the opportunity:
I appreciate the compliment and the support for what we are doing. And I don't think you're a pest. I hope I have shown that I welcome thoughtful criticism. Obviously you have more than just a passing interest in what we are doing, so I completely respect that. And to give you an example of how I see this back and forth being productive for me - I have spent A LOT of time in Friday night lately. This discussion has helped me to see that I was much more detailed in what I was doing in the dialogue there than I have been lately. I realize I've been guilty of rushing things in order to get the game finished, and I've been more focused on what we are doing in the renders and animations. So I want to work on that, but it has been great that we get renders in ten minutes or less instead of two hours. 4090's are so choice.
I will say that I continue to struggle to respond to you for reasons that I feel have to do with where we are in updating some of the inconsistencies in the story we talked about when this conversation began and getting out the new material. So here's what I'd like to do as I sincerely want to fully understand your position.
Let me get the next update out, and then I would like to pose some specific questions to you over in that discussion thread about Steph you started ages ago. The questions won't be to challenge your position but to cut through perception and get us looking at the same specifics in the script. Anyway, I'd appreciate it if you would be willing to do that with me.
I appreciate the compliment and the support for what we are doing. And I don't think you're a pest. I hope I have shown that I welcome thoughtful criticism. Obviously you have more than just a passing interest in what we are doing, so I completely respect that. And to give you an example of how I see this back and forth being productive for me - I have spent A LOT of time in Friday night lately. This discussion has helped me to see that I was much more detailed in what I was doing in the dialogue there than I have been lately. I realize I've been guilty of rushing things in order to get the game finished, and I've been more focused on what we are doing in the renders and animations. So I want to work on that, but it has been great that we get renders in ten minutes or less instead of two hours. 4090's are so choice.
I will say that I continue to struggle to respond to you for reasons that I feel have to do with where we are in updating some of the inconsistencies in the story we talked about when this conversation began and getting out the new material. So here's what I'd like to do as I sincerely want to fully understand your position.
Let me get the next update out, and then I would like to pose some specific questions to you over in that discussion thread about Steph you started ages ago. The questions won't be to challenge your position but to cut through perception and get us looking at the same specifics in the script. Anyway, I'd appreciate it if you would be willing to do that with me.
- Jun 11, 2020
- 8,882
- 30,213
That’s pretty cool of them to do that for you, Im wondering when he said he’s rushing to get this game finished, did he mean it’s almost over or did he mean the update finished. Cause I know they want to do another game where Tori is the star or the female protagonist too
- Mar 27, 2021
- 145
- 249
- Jun 22, 2019
- 1,193
- 3,142
After the changes I mentioned, I simply lowered my expectations for the game.
At first, I really thought it was going to be a choice and consequence-oriented story, but I think that was a misleading impression and their plan from the beginning was for the MC to "be happy" no matter what.
But it seems that at some point, they realized that Steph didn’t look very attractive on most routes and began to change/cut content where she behaved especially badly. The same goes for Tori and Jason, who before the changes looked like ordinary scammers.
This was done to give the MC just the slightest bit of motivation to support Steph in the new lifestyle/support her when she reveals her "huge secret" to him.
Also, if I’m not mistaken, another game awaits us with Tori as the main character. Therefore, we must love her.
Last edited:
- Jun 22, 2019
- 1,193
- 3,142
the usual answer from an experienced politician)
"we are very sorry that you did not like it, but we hope that you will stay with us because we are sure that everything will change for the better"
- Jan 17, 2021
- 967
- 3,209
My main issue is the inconsistency in character of the MC. While he is the meeker of the two, before Sat, there were choices to control the direction of events to the point of being convoluted. Once Sat hits, especially when Steph got a taste, choices don’t seem to matter as much, especially on the non-High confidence routes. The MC just seems for the ride with Steph firmly in the drivers seat. There is not much of the good banter and discussion like those of Fri. It seems like 2 different games at times. Perhaps the developer realized he cannot sustain the level of writing and branching of Fri given the price point of the game and needed to move things along more quickly.
- May 6, 2023
- 2,332
- 4,880
Great post. The next game from what I understand is focused on Tori and Steph. Considering they needed to add the alternative paths for the amount of players who dislike Tori, it doesn't bode well, but if it has lots of sex scenes there will be buyers.
I know mate, I have been burned before so I'll be on guard. I don't think they are bad guys I just don't think they have executed things well from Saturday morning on. Friday night proves he can write as I said to him (which was the compliment the dev refers too). He mentions the dialogue and that's true, but not just the dialogue, but also keeping players in the drivers seat making the decisions. It doesn't feel like that now and going forward. I feel like the player is trying to wrestle the story back from Steph and Tori with his hands tied.
Another great post. I tried to warn them about that. Making players just spectators making minor decisions v active players making the big decisions is important. Since Tori wants to make MC a minor character then the players look to be just a spectator making minor decisions. It has to be a damn interesting story to keep my attention. If Steph/Tori/Jason are off doing things without MC then it will have to be some mechanism to tell MC/player what happened. That doesn't do it for me. If my character is not the story and making the big decisions the VN goes in to the recycle bin unless the story is something special. I'll be pushing that point again. Whether I have any success who knows.
- Jan 17, 2021
- 967
- 3,209
It also flies into the face of what the game tells you to do in the beginning - Make confidence choices. Only to have that be less meaningful and more or less abandoned by the time of the Tori/Jason segment. Also, why have us name the character and give pet names for each other if we are not meant assume the role of the MC. Together with the choice issue might as well make it a kinetic novel with set characters and 3 story variations. Just one menu option at the start of the game to select Low, Med or High confidence route.
Was hoping devs would learn the lessons from TAC. Heck TACOS, while an improvement, did not really learn the lessons from TAC.
Rather than going into the recycle bin, I have half a mind, given the relatively short length of the game, to reorganize and remaster the script to make the choices distinct and meaningful and preserving the original vision of 3 confidence routes. At least this way it can be used as a learning tool for game and story flow.
- May 6, 2023
- 2,332
- 4,880
Hopefully we can get some clarity on the way the game is going to go. Its a good analogy, a kinetic novel. I agree on the menu option, it would make is simpler. The pet names aren't used much either.
TACOS was the first example that came to mind and it is well known, so I used it. Someone has been reading Steam forums. Your user name wouldn't be a bit earthy by any chance?
I wouldn't throw this game in the recycle bin, it has redeeming features to learn from. I was just making a general comment about VNs that go down the kinetic route with meaningless choices and poor stories. I've sent a few in to the recycle bin. I'm waiting to see post Steph's secret who I want to add to my kick out of MC's life list
. There is a lot to reveal, the receipt, phone call, Christmas party, Chuck, etc. So far Suzy, Jason, Tori are on my hit list before I even start. I see a big mod coming on . Got to get value out of the game with a kick-ass-out-of-MC's-life satisfaction mod
- Jan 17, 2021
- 967
- 3,209
Actually no, I have not read the Steam forums lately... *runs off to check*Hopefully we can get some clarity on the way the game is going to go. Its a good analogy, a kinetic novel. I agree on the menu option, it would make is simpler. The pet names aren't used much either.
TACOS was the first example that came to mind and it is well known, so I used it. Someone has been reading Steam forums. Your user name wouldn't be a bit earthy by any chance?
I wouldn't throw this game in the recycle bin, it has redeeming features to learn from. I was just making a general comment about VNs that go down the kinetic route with meaningless choices and poor stories. I've sent a few in to the recycle bin. I'm waiting to see post Steph's secret who I want to add to my kick out of MC's life list
...
Haha, thanks for bringing up the alternate end mod.
I brought up TAC/OS since as you mentioned it the most well known example and also because I made the gallery for it and had to combed through the script and see that lost of player control.
I think the devs must surely be aware of this site and the more popular games and discussion surrounding them.
Well, we will see what this week's (or is it the next?) AMW update brings.
Last edited:
- May 6, 2023
- 2,332
- 4,880
I love that mod
. I think it doesn't hurt to remind them people like the MC but not how he is treated at times. Its not all about Steph.TAC/OS has become a bit of a beacon of how things can go wrong with your fan base if you make the wife too toxic. There is a lesson there. Miracom was gracious enough to let me know I'm getting my Kelsey ending so its bitter-sweet.
I did make mention in a few of the posts to check out the discussions here and I drop the odd comment to remind them there is a group of guys following the game. I'm sure they drop in on occasion as they mentioned the phone call discussion that time. So I'm careful to only reference comments where I know the consensus here is the same so if/when they do pop in they can check to see others are saying the same thing and maybe take notice.
The dev said the Tori visit second half is dropping next week I think but don't quote me on that. I'm getting old, the memory is going
. I was at a birthday celebration last night, I was having trouble hearing people talk over the background noise. Even my ears are getting old!It's definitely cool that he interacts with you on there.
I can't be the only one perplexed by his response though. It's all corporate gobbeldy-gook. Like what is he actually saying? Because it sounds like he's writing a lot of words yet saying nothing.
"Cut through perception and get us looking at the same specifics."
I have a headache already, seriously.
- May 6, 2023
- 2,332
- 4,880
We will find out in a week or so I guess. If its a Q&A thing I'll definitely be seeking input from you guys to bring up.
I think the dev doesn't understand why we are looking at his story and coming up with different answers/perceptions then what he intended. For example, no one figured the Christmas Party is a central factor in the story. To the dev its obvious because he keeps referring back to it from his point of view. To me, it is mentioned 3 times twice those times are a one line reference to meeting Tori and the other reference Steph and Tori had a conversation as people do at a party, so what? Maybe the dev should have started there or had some flashbacks or something. If Steph spilled her secret to Tori and not her husband then there is an obvious communication issue. That brings us to Tori who is supposedly trying to help Steph. I still can't get my head around that. There is nothing in that text that I can see as helping a new lifestyle couple who have obvious communication issues and which the woman has psychological problems. I see a recipe for disaster. To me its bizarre. I think it's things like that he wants to clear up.
Your thoughts mirror my own closely - it seems like the dev has a fundamentally different idea in his head of what the game should be as opposed to many of us..... the frustrating part is all these callbacks, secrecy, winding stories of deception etc- not only add time to write and develop, but if I understand correctly aren't desired by the majority here!
For myself only, I just want more swinger games because this site is so lacking, I dont want complex weaving stories of backstabbing and scheming, I just want some couples happily banging! Is that too much to ask? Literally, the code could be so simple, stuff like the following below, and I'd be happy!
Python:
default swingToTheLeft = False
default swingToTheRight = False
default thinkAboutBaseball = False
default swingAllNight = False
label swingertalk:
scene stephneutral with dissolve
s "So how would you feel about going to some kind of club together?"
menu:
"Yeah, I can dig it":
scene stephsmile with dissolve
s "Thought about what we're gonna wear?"
$ swingToTheLeft = True
"Nah, not for me":
scene stephfrown with dissolve
s "Whatever grandpa!"
pass
s "Well, separately from a club, would you be more comfortable doing these things at home?"
menu:
"Home sounds better to be honest...":
scene stephsmile with dissolve
s "Great! I'll get the blender out."
swingToTheRight = True
"That might be weird, we don't want strangers in our house..":
scene stephfrown with dissolve
s "And I'm sure your 20 person football get-togethers are exempt!"
pass
if swingToTheRight and swingToTheLeft:
scene stephsmirk with dissolve
s "So what do you say, should we watch some baseball?"
menu:
"Yes":
$ thinkAboutBaseball = True
"No":
pass
if thinkAboutBaseball:
$ swingAllNight = True
scene swingerorgyhouseintro01 with dissolve
s "Wow! This place is huge!"
etcetc
return- Jan 17, 2021
- 967
- 3,209
I say go ahead and make a couple of chapters with what you have. Sell that in early access/patreon as a way to fund those 4090s which should help with timely delivery for the rest of the game. We do need more happy couple swinging games.Your thoughts mirror my own closely - it seems like the dev has a fundamentally different idea in his head of what the game should be as opposed to many of us..... the frustrating part is all these callbacks, secrecy, winding stories of deception etc- not only add time to write and develop, but if I understand correctly aren't desired by the majority here!
For myself only, I just want more swinger games because this site is so lacking, I dont want complex weaving stories of backstabbing and scheming, I just want some couples happily banging! Is that too much to ask? Literally, the code could be so simple, stuff like the following below, and I'd be happy!
It makes me angrier because the one thing standing between just doing this myself are the presence of those 4090s he whimsically mentioned. Those cards are 2 grand a piece. So a multiple setup will exceed 4 grand. Not exactly a new putter in your bag. If I had the same tools as him, grrrrrrrrrr.Python:default swingToTheLeft = False default swingToTheRight = False default thinkAboutBaseball = False default swingAllNight = False label swingertalk: scene stephneutral with dissolve s "So how would you feel about going to some kind of club together?" menu: "Yeah, I can dig it": scene stephsmile with dissolve s "Thought about what we're gonna wear?" $ swingToTheLeft = True "Nah, not for me": scene stephfrown with dissolve s "Whatever grandpa!" pass s "Well, separately from a club, would you be more comfortable doing these things at home?" menu: "Home sounds better to be honest...": scene stephsmile with dissolve s "Great! I'll get the blender out." swingToTheRight = True "That might be weird, we don't want strangers in our house..": scene stephfrown with dissolve s "And I'm sure your 20 person football get-togethers are exempt!" pass if swingToTheRight and swingToTheLeft: scene stephsmirk with dissolve s "So what do you say, should we watch some baseball?" menu: "Yes": $ thinkAboutBaseball = True "No": pass if thinkAboutBaseball: $ swingAllNight = True scene swingerorgyhouseintro01 with dissolve s "Wow! This place is huge!" etcetc return
And please be liberal in use of labels so I can make that gallery mod
so you can spend your time on the actual gameplay.
- Jun 11, 2020
- 8,882
- 30,213
I think Stoper, the dev for “JOHN” has 2 4090’s that aren’t getting much use these daysYour thoughts mirror my own closely - it seems like the dev has a fundamentally different idea in his head of what the game should be as opposed to many of us..... the frustrating part is all these callbacks, secrecy, winding stories of deception etc- not only add time to write and develop, but if I understand correctly aren't desired by the majority here!
For myself only, I just want more swinger games because this site is so lacking, I dont want complex weaving stories of backstabbing and scheming, I just want some couples happily banging! Is that too much to ask? Literally, the code could be so simple, stuff like the following below, and I'd be happy!
It makes me angrier because the one thing standing between just doing this myself are the presence of those 4090s he whimsically mentioned. Those cards are 2 grand a piece. So a multiple setup will exceed 4 grand. Not exactly a new putter in your bag. If I had the same tools as him, grrrrrrrrrr.Python:default swingToTheLeft = False default swingToTheRight = False default thinkAboutBaseball = False default swingAllNight = False label swingertalk: scene stephneutral with dissolve s "So how would you feel about going to some kind of club together?" menu: "Yeah, I can dig it": scene stephsmile with dissolve s "Thought about what we're gonna wear?" $ swingToTheLeft = True "Nah, not for me": scene stephfrown with dissolve s "Whatever grandpa!" pass s "Well, separately from a club, would you be more comfortable doing these things at home?" menu: "Home sounds better to be honest...": scene stephsmile with dissolve s "Great! I'll get the blender out." swingToTheRight = True "That might be weird, we don't want strangers in our house..": scene stephfrown with dissolve s "And I'm sure your 20 person football get-togethers are exempt!" pass if swingToTheRight and swingToTheLeft: scene stephsmirk with dissolve s "So what do you say, should we watch some baseball?" menu: "Yes": $ thinkAboutBaseball = True "No": pass if thinkAboutBaseball: $ swingAllNight = True scene swingerorgyhouseintro01 with dissolve s "Wow! This place is huge!" etcetc return
It's simply untenable, right now I have an AMD card which is plenty powerful for games; but it means software rendering if I want iray shaders, which means a scene with even a single character in a 3d built environment (like a house living room) will take well over an hour. This is with extremely simple lighting mind you, if any other than headlamp.I say go ahead and make a couple of chapters with what you have. Sell that in early access/patreon as a way to fund those 4090s which should help with timely delivery for the rest of the game. We do need more happy couple swinging games.
I can cheat in two ways, either dialing up the grain reduction filter, letting the renders only go 40-50%, then do post photo edits to reduce noise.....which produces an "okay" result but still takes ~45 min, or make everything sprite style and use layered images, so I just render the people stationary, then spot render different facial expressions like smiling or frowning. This is much faster, but then things end up looking like those anime games, a look that I personally despise.
Believe me, I'm on the same page, I'll pop blood vessels when I see sloppy disorganized labels, or games that don't use sound flow logic (*COUGH* THIS ONE *COUGH*) - it's like tooperilous doesn't know how to use calls? Also having script files with reasonable names and organization goes a long way.And please be liberal in use of labels so I can make that gallery mod
- Mar 27, 2021
- 145
- 249
Amen, there is a serious shortage of good sharing/swinging games.Your thoughts mirror my own closely - it seems like the dev has a fundamentally different idea in his head of what the game should be as opposed to many of us..... the frustrating part is all these callbacks, secrecy, winding stories of deception etc- not only add time to write and develop, but if I understand correctly aren't desired by the majority here!
For myself only, I just want more swinger games because this site is so lacking, I dont want complex weaving stories of backstabbing and scheming, I just want some couples happily banging! Is that too much to ask? Literally, the code could be so simple, stuff like the following below, and I'd be happy!
It makes me angrier because the one thing standing between just doing this myself are the presence of those 4090s he whimsically mentioned. Those cards are 2 grand a piece. So a multiple setup will exceed 4 grand. Not exactly a new putter in your bag. If I had the same tools as him, grrrrrrrrrr.Python:default swingToTheLeft = False default swingToTheRight = False default thinkAboutBaseball = False default swingAllNight = False label swingertalk: scene stephneutral with dissolve s "So how would you feel about going to some kind of club together?" menu: "Yeah, I can dig it": scene stephsmile with dissolve s "Thought about what we're gonna wear?" $ swingToTheLeft = True "Nah, not for me": scene stephfrown with dissolve s "Whatever grandpa!" pass s "Well, separately from a club, would you be more comfortable doing these things at home?" menu: "Home sounds better to be honest...": scene stephsmile with dissolve s "Great! I'll get the blender out." swingToTheRight = True "That might be weird, we don't want strangers in our house..": scene stephfrown with dissolve s "And I'm sure your 20 person football get-togethers are exempt!" pass if swingToTheRight and swingToTheLeft: scene stephsmirk with dissolve s "So what do you say, should we watch some baseball?" menu: "Yes": $ thinkAboutBaseball = True "No": pass if thinkAboutBaseball: $ swingAllNight = True scene swingerorgyhouseintro01 with dissolve s "Wow! This place is huge!" etcetc return