Nurikabe

Well-Known Member
Feb 10, 2021
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An open, honest relationship doesn't include digging into somebody's past without discussing it in advance. Feeling entitled to everybody's (potentially private) background details and digging at it rather than discussing it with them first? That's also not very open and honest.

I can respect that you and some others may have been burned, but somebody doing that to me would throw up red flags all over the field, and I'd do us both a favor and simply cut them out of my life at that point. If you ask me about myself, I may very well tell you a great deal, much of which can't be found through other channels, because there's very little I keep hidden (but there surely are some things). I won't generally bother with lying, because I don't have the energy to waste on trying to keep that shit straight.

But if you automatically can't believe something I've told you without trying to do a background check? Then I could never trust you. You've no respect for privacy or personal boundaries. It is toxic behavior. Just because you feel it's justified doesn't make it right.

If you and I were getting to know each other and you asked how I'd feel about you running a background check? I'd probably tell I think it's creepy, but as long as you're footing the bill for it I really don't give a shit. Informed consent is a very important thing.
I can respect that opinion. Open communication is always best. It just isn't reality.

Everybody lies. Everybody. I work in a profession where I deal with this every day, with every single person. People who should be honest when they are with me, but they just aren't. No judgment from me. People hide things for a lot of reasons. To them, they are good reasons.

If you apply for a decent job, there will be a background check. If you apply for a decent job that requires specific privileges, there will be a lot more than a background check. And that is just to WORK. Not be in someone's bed!

For you, Valerie was out of line. You would cut from the beginning. That's fine. For you. That does not make it toxic.

The fact that they shared the truth with each other when the "thing" became more than just a "fling" is the key piece of information here. Again, the MC had the chance to tell her to fuck off. She could have bailed as soon as she learned he was truly lying. But they chose to stick it out and communicate with each other. For you, this would be that red flag and you would've bailed. For you. But for them, this was an acceptable path in their relationship. This story is about them, not you.

Like I said, I can completely respect that as a deal breaker for you. It is good to know your boundaries. We are discussing what happened in a story. While there has to be some suspension of reality in any story, it is realistic to believe what happened in their story. And it is fitting to buy into how they accepted and dealt with the situation.

Like your stance with Z, her behavior crosses a line that puts her into the red flag zone for you. Personally, I am not into dominating women. I would not stand for much of her behavior. But it is far from "toxic" as far as we can see in the story. Red flag? Sure. "Toxic?" No. That is my rub here. That these behaviors are considered "toxic."

Now, combine these single behaviors with other behaviors, other actions, and other scenarios (none of which exist in this story), and you could argue that we've reached a toxic level. One man's "toxic" is another man's fetish! :ROFLMAO:;)
You, like me, probably did not choose to go down the Z path. It's all good! That is the beauty of a well-written, choices matter visual novel. Don't like that path? You don't have to go down it. But I completely support that those behaviors are red flags for you.
 

OWSam000

Active Member
Mar 1, 2022
749
803
I think in Zenda path, MC is more like a sugar baby than a equal lover(At least in the beginning). Since MC is always receiving things/being told to follow her in Zenda path while he is improving other LIs lives in their paths. :unsure:
However, it doesn't mean I don't like Zenda. She has shown some signs to become a perfect wife especially in ep4.
 

Son of Durin

Engaged Member
Jul 5, 2021
3,686
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Why was the Athena model changed after the MC and Sadie hotel marathon took place?
Same model - just no makeup and her hair was pulled back.

If you think that was dramatic, you should see some of your favorite IRL actresses with and without makeup - you'd be astonished at how awful some of them look without three hours in a make up chair with a stylist doing their hair.
 

holymoly35cb

Member
Mar 31, 2019
460
156
Same model - just no makeup and her hair was pulled back.

If you think that was dramatic, you should see some of your favorite IRL actresses with and without makeup - you'd be astonished at how awful some of them look without three hours in a make up chair with a stylist doing their hair.
This just looks too much like different models. even though it was just that one scene.
 

turbojoe

Forum Fanatic
Sep 27, 2021
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Just a question - I´m a little confused again.

Started Heidi/Sadie path at Halloween party (chosen "Both").
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Following scene is Dean Walsh with Sadie telling your´s father death - no changes at Sancho´s Stats, still Hei/Sad True

But then "7 weeks later" bad surprise: Heidi Sadie path suddenly is False!
Also Athena and Heidi Official gone False after this 2 scenes o_O
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Can somebody enlighten me what´s happened within these 7 weeks without any scene or choice?
Is there a bug?
 

Son of Durin

Engaged Member
Jul 5, 2021
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This just looks too much like different models. even though it was just that one scene.
Faces, body, everything the same, except she isn't wearing makeup on the sofa (no black lips; you can see the freckles across her cheeks) and her hair is pulled back instead of styled.

Here are a couple of the more extreme examples I found from reality in a quick search:
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Ilhares

Engaged Member
Aug 19, 2019
2,887
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This just looks too much like different models. even though it was just that one scene.
You do know that you can press S and get nice crisp clear images, right? Because those are so bad it looks like you used a really cheap flip phone to snap pics off the telly.
 

Elhemeer

Forum Fanatic
Jun 20, 2022
5,609
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You do know that you can press S and get nice crisp clear images, right? Because those are so bad it looks like you used a really cheap flip phone to snap pics off the telly.
I have a co-worker that uses their iPad to take pictures of their computer screen and then sends them to me and I'm supposed to make the image work for printing ...

EDIT: Okay, I have to be fair. it's been at least 6 months since they did that. Now, after much prodding on my part, they just send me the link so I can find the image they want myself (usually from a video ... I frequently have to guess).
 

Son of Durin

Engaged Member
Jul 5, 2021
3,686
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Just a question - I´m a little confused again.

Started Heidi/Sadie path at Halloween party (chosen "Both").
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Following scene is Dean Walsh with Sadie telling your´s father death - no changes at Sancho´s Stats, still Hei/Sad True

But then "7 weeks later" bad surprise: Heidi Sadie path suddenly is False!
Also Athena and Heidi Official gone False after this 2 scenes o_O
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Can somebody enlighten me what´s happened within these 7 weeks without any scene or choice?
Is there a bug?
I had something similar. I was in a variant on an "Athena pref" track, but wasn't neglecting Heidi or Sadie, and got the "both" scene, that suggested I now had a H/S pathing, but, I guess since my prior play was Athena focused, while still trying to keep the "MASH" together (actually lost Mora pathing I think due to not inviting her in in this variant), the H/S scene where MC and Heidi team up to take Sadie's virginity, didn't happen - had to do a separate route focused on just those two to trigger. Think I had it on a Heidi focused, yet still trying to balance everyone in the MASH out, where the Halloween "both" BJ came up and Sancho suggested this was on the HS pathing, but it was still the solo scene taking Sadie for the first time.

My only real disappointments along the way were that I couldn't get both scenes at the spa (mutually exclusive nookie with harem members while on a harem path is evil :devilish:) and that, although not a a MILF man (I'm too old to want to focus on that in AVN play, even though in IRL they would still be younger than me :LOL:), I was kind of bummed I couldn't do a "knock up both MILFs" route. It would have been amusing to have the rivals "cum" together. ;)
 
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turbojoe

Forum Fanatic
Sep 27, 2021
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You cannot be on both Athena/Heidi and Athena/Sadie at the same time. So something wonky was going on with your playthrough even before the end of chapter 3. I honestly don't know how you managed to do that.
I had something similar. I was in a variant on an "Athena pref" track, but wasn't neglecting Heidi or Sadie, and got the "both" scene, that suggested I now had a H/S pathing, but, I guess since my prior play was Athena focused, while still trying to keep the "MASH" together (actually lost Mora pathing I think due to not inviting her in in this variant), the H/S scene where MC and Heidi don't team up to take Sadie's virginity didn't happen - had to do a separate route focused on just those two to trigger. Think I had it on a Heidi focused, yet still trying to balance everyone in the MASH out, where the Halloween "both" BJ came up and Sancho suggested this was on the HS pathing, but it was still the solo scene taking Sadie for the first time.
Thanks for answering.
Yep - this I was worried yet - on the save game I started this way Athena´s love points where to high. It was impossible to deny her "falling for MC", the turning to Athena official ("are we together") has happened without a choosing option.

I guess I have no choice to try a new attempt starting further and avoiding Athena´s love points if possible so far.
Anyway this isn´t really easy, cuz gaining Heidi points often includes also Athena points.
 

Son of Durin

Engaged Member
Jul 5, 2021
3,686
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Thanks for answering.
Yep - this I was worried yet - on the save game I started this way Athena´s love points where to high. It was impossible to deny her "falling for MC", the turning to Athena official ("are we together") has happened without a choosing option.

I guess I have no choice to try a new attempt starting further and avoiding Athena´s love points if possible so far.
Anyway this isn´t really easy, cuz gaining Heidi points often includes also Athena points.
It isn't too difficult to get there if you start with a "Heidi solo" within the house, and also pursue Sadie. The critical moment comes early in the VN - I think it was right after breakfast early on and you can choose to go see Heidi or go see Athena. If you go see Athena and tell her you want to pursue Heidi (not both) that's one way of getting there (maybe the best way); or go see Heidi. Afterwards, just stick to Heidi-centric compliments rather than both, etc. You don't entirely avoid Athena (ex., y'all go hang together at the bar so that you can get the Halloween party invite), but you just don't grab the solo Athena points - since you have the mod installed, the Sancho guide will be very helpful in minimizing Athena points, but without being an utter dick: don't do things like accept the ride home; no LAN party, no solo gaming with her, don't hang out with her after she hurts her ankle, etc. You don't make her a scorned lover and I don't think she moves out, but you never become more than just friends.
 

turbojoe

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Sep 27, 2021
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It isn't too difficult to get there if you start with a "Heidi solo" within the house, and also pursue Sadie. The critical moment comes early in the VN - I think it was right after breakfast early on and you can choose to go see Heidi or go see Athena. If you go see Athena and tell her you want to pursue Heidi (not both) that's one way of getting there (maybe the best way); or go see Heidi. Afterwards, just stick to Heidi-centric compliments rather than both, etc. You don't entirely avoid Athena (ex., y'all go hang together at the bar so that you can get the Halloween party invite), but you just don't grab the solo Athena points - since you have the mod installed, the Sancho guide will be very helpful in minimizing Athena points, but without being an utter dick: don't do things like accept the ride home; no LAN party, no solo gaming with her, don't hang out with her after she hurts her ankle, etc. You don't make her a scorned lover and I don't think she moves out, but you never become more than just friends.
Thanks for the advises - I managed it now :love:
I needed only to not stay with Athena when she hurt her ankle, she doesn´t interfere this path anymore.
Could play the Heidi-Sadie path to the end without troubles (anyway nice sex scene with them two ;))
Looking forward how this relationship will proceed in upcoming Chapter 5 :p
 
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