Holy Bacchus

Conversation Conqueror
Dec 13, 2018
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While I don't think DPC would alter the story based on fan feedback,most of it would be asking for Jill to be the MC's aunt, I do feel like the dialogue and interactions with Maya/Josy in episode 5 were influenced by the reaction to episode 4. Especially Derek's 'third wheel' line.
I think DPC was always going to deal with that in some way, because even without the reaction some people had, it's still a big thing that needed clearing up and clarifying. The one thing that did seem like a slight retcon though, was when the mini-flashback of the MC leaving the library showed M&J weren't kissing, even though we know they were.

Ep 4
ep4_josy_maya_talk54b.jpg

Ep 5
ep5_josy19.jpg

People were a bit pissed by that, so maybe that was an attempt to re-write history.

How can you lose respect for someone for changing a story you don't know about yet? That's a conundrum now, isn't it?
I did say "if we find out", in other words, if it came from DPC directly or a credible source that spoke with him that a certain change was made due to "feedback", and that resulted in a negative change for a character or plot point that was otherwise not going to be something negative, then I would lose respect.

Obviously, we may never know if DPC will do this, but I wouldn't like it if they did.

I have always somewhat agreed with the opposite of this. If I'm giving you money then I want to see the game and things I'm interested in. The whole false advertising thing comes to mind. If Im giving you money to support a game/fetishes and you start a new game or change the fetishes then thats bullshit. Its not about control but if the developer significantly changes his output of whatever then it serves him right for getting not so constructive criticism and a loss of $/patrons.
But should a dev change the direction of their story or what they have planned for a certain character because it's what you as a supporter want? That is the question here, about whether a dev should stick to their plans or give in to supporters requests/demands and change aspects of their story.
 

ename144

Engaged Member
Sep 20, 2018
3,195
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Except we're not talking about people being critical of their writing style, their character development, or pointing out plotholes and plot contrivances, but about allowing a vocal few to dictate the direction and events of the story.

If certain people don't like a certain character and would want to see them get killed off or otherwise removed from the story, DPC should not ever listen to those people if he doesn't plan on doing that because it is not up to them to tell him what he should and shouldn't do with his characters. The same thing if people start asking for some kind of sexual kink like BDSM or incest; if DPC doesn't plan on doing it, then he shouldn't do it just because some people might want it.
In an ideal world, the author should listen to as much (constructive) criticism as he (or she, of course) can get, but he should only act on that criticism when it demonstrates that he has failed to convey his intended message to large portions of the audience.

For example, I think your criticism of forking the Maya/Josy sex scenes in Episode 5 is perfectly valid, but whether DPC should act on it comes down to what he intended when he wrote the two scenes that way. If he wanted to emphasize how hard it will be to balance a three-way relationship by proving you can't always be there for both of them, then he should probably disregard your concerns, at least for now.

If, on the other hand, he wanted to make sure each player got a lewd scene with their favorite girl but was worried about M/J burnout so he made sure people didn't have to sit through both of them, then I think he should take your criticism to heart. Clearly, in trying to avoid one problem, he inadvertently created another one that might be just as bad. He should devise a new strategy to avoid burnout the next time this sort of thing comes up.

It goes without saying that this is easier said than done, but I think it's ultimately the only meaningful answer. Authors who insist on riding roughshod over their audience's wishes will eventually find themselves alone. But at the same time, trying to please EVERYONE will devolve into artwork by committee. Authors need feedback to learn how their art is interpreted, but at the end of the day that art has to originate in their own vision. They can certainly get valuable input from friends or colleagues, but they can't just farm the whole project out to the public.
 

AvatarStormBringer

Well-Known Member
Dec 20, 2019
1,213
1,262
What a strange render.

I think I like the idea, but putting Cathy in a full suit, deliberately uncovering her breasts, then shooting her from the side just feels... convoluted. I think he should either have left her 'fully clothed' or put her in a topless swimsuit.
I believe the idea with Cathy here comes down to one word, "leather"
And we know this how? I mean, I'm sure he sees what people say on Patreon, and on Discord, and maybe even here if he's lurking, but just because he may be aware of people's views doesn't necessarily mean he will make any changes. If DPC doesn't plan to do anything tragic or fatal to Quinn later in the game, then he shouldn't do anything to her just because some people express a disliking for her character. People may like KRJ, but that doesn't mean he should give her a sex scene if he never planned on her having one.

I honestly would lose a lot of respect for DPC if we found out that they made any changes to the story or a character's arc on the basis of what their supporters say in the Patreon comments or on Discord. Whether a character or story thread is perceived to be popular or unpopular, they shouldn't allow this perception to dictate or alter their originally planned story.

I think sometimes that the crowdfunding Patreon model gives people a false sense of control, that some people believe because they're paying this developer to produce content that this makes them the creator's boss and that they can dictate what kind of content gets produced otherwise they will pull their support. But they are not the bosses, they are supporters in the same way that sports teams have supporters, and just because a few of them might threaten to not buy new jerseys for the upcoming season doesn't mean you have to do the trades they want or play the team the way they want.
As much as I don't condone fans demanding from dev, I would have to disagree regarding your take on crowdfunding. Crowdfunding is more towards once off pledge in support of a project while what we have with patreon should be subscription. Supporters subscribe on a monthly basis and expect a return. The catch here is the expectations. Some of the fans (paid or otherwise) have an unforgiving and maybe unrealistic expectation from the devs. Fans should sign up knowing what they are getting into rather than demanding the devs to meet their terms.
Should dev change the direction of their story or what they have planned for a certain character because it's what you as a supporter want? That is the question here, about whether a dev should stick to their plans or give in to supporters requests/demands and change aspects of their story.
Dev should stick to his/her story board unless a huge flaw is detected. Supporters requests/demands can only come in the form of freebies that doesn't/have minimal effect on the story.
 
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JohnDelfino

Member
Mar 27, 2020
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I think DPC was always going to deal with that in some way, because even without the reaction some people had, it's still a big thing that needed clearing up and clarifying. The one thing that did seem like a slight retcon though, was when the mini-flashback of the MC leaving the library showed M&J weren't kissing, even though we know they were.
Maybe but the Derek line sticks out to me because its the exact phrase I saw many people use to describe how the scene in episode 4 came off. I never noticed that render though, interesting.
 

Holy Bacchus

Conversation Conqueror
Dec 13, 2018
7,748
19,529
In an ideal world, the author should listen to as much (constructive) criticism as he (or she, of course) can get, but he should only act on that criticism when it demonstrates that he has failed to convey his intended message to large portions of the audience.
If what happened in ep 5 with regards to those interactions and dialogue was due to this, then I'd be fine with that, but I do still think a lot of it was already intended to happen before the ep 4 reactions were known.

For example, I think your criticism of forking the Maya/Josy sex scenes in Episode 5 is perfectly valid, but whether DPC should act on it comes down to what he intended when he wrote the two scenes that way. If he wanted to emphasize how hard it will be to balance a three-way relationship by proving you can't always be there for both of them, then he should probably disregard your concerns, at least for now.

If, on the other hand, he wanted to make sure each player got a lewd scene with their favorite girl but was worried about M/J burnout so he made sure people didn't have to sit through both of them, then I think he should take your criticism to heart. Clearly, in trying to avoid one problem, he inadvertently created another one that might be just as bad. He should devise a new strategy to avoid burnout the next time this sort of thing comes up.

It goes without saying that this is easier said than done, but I think it's ultimately the only meaningful answer. Authors who insist on riding roughshod over their audience's wishes will eventually find themselves alone. But at the same time, trying to please EVERYONE will devolve into artwork by committee. Authors need feedback to learn how their art is interpreted, but at the end of the day that art has to originate in their own vision. They can certainly get valuable input from friends or colleagues, but they can't just farm the whole project out to the public.
I suppose if his intention was to convey the difficulties of balancing being with 2 girls at once, then I can understand that, but I'd still say that, from a narrative standpoint, the MC needs to hear what each has to say about their arrangement on both paths and even if we can't do it here, it should still happen for whatever character you didn't choose later.

At the end of the day, this game is going to be like every other work of fiction where you just have to hope it works out in a way that satisfies you, and if it doesn't then you just to accept it for what it is; much like the last season of Game of Thrones or the Star Wars sequel trilogy.
 

Diavel

Member
Apr 2, 2018
111
69
I have always somewhat agreed with the opposite of this. If I'm giving you money then I want to see the game and things I'm interested in. The whole false advertising thing comes to mind. If Im giving you money to support a game/fetishes and you start a new game or change the fetishes then thats bullshit. Its not about control but if the developer significantly changes his output of whatever then it serves him right for getting not so constructive criticism and a loss of $/patrons.
I don't believe what was meant to be that.... from what I understood, the concern at hand was DPC changing the content from what was publicized by him, to what backers want to see added do to their wishes rather then wanting him to deliver what he set out to deliver.

So if you were to be supporting him monetarily to get the media he promised you then there would be no reason for you to stop supporting him. On the other hand like you said if he where to change it that would obviously be reason for you to stop.

And from what I understood that is exactly what everyone else was discussing, the author changing the content only because the supporters deem it so, under the threat of stopping to back it up if their wishes and demands aren't met.

Now this does not mean of course that the author can't hear the ideas or wishes of the audience and add/change something he himself feels reasonable or interesting to him, in a sense that to him would add something of constructive or better the his story by making it more intriguing.
But of course that inserting or not what the audience wants is a very subjective broad field and not an exact mathematically precise quantity how much an author should or should not take into account.

But on this matter of him considering or listening to his backers.... it sounds to me a little inconsistent no not care about them if he gives them access to a private channel with direct connection from him where they can talk about the game on the matters relating to the game...

I also find quite disrespectful for people to insist on including this or that because they so wish when the author already stated that that is not something that he/they was/were going to include in to begin with. (this not referring to you but to people in general who do so)
 
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