VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [Dr PinkCake]

[felicemastronzo]

If quinn’s The only one that knows we won’t get a conclusive hint yet.
There’s lots of ambiguous hints that something has changed this year.
The one time we see her shooting up it’s presentation is as part of a sales pitch.
It’s possible that all the ambiguous hints end up at a secret addict but we haven’t seen anything that would suggest that from them yet.

I did not understand sorry.

do you think Quinn is the addict? or that there is another character involved?

 

[xsssssssss]

I did not understand sorry.

do you think Quinn is the addict? or that there is another character involved?

I think Quinn is being extorted for money. The other poster believed she is an addict.

 

[crabsinthekitchen]

That's not a plot hole, that's bad writing. DPC is presenting us an option (tell her EVERYTHING) but then the dialog doesn't match the option given because the natural outcome of it would ruin his planned plot. So the problem lies in the way he presents that option and that's completely a writing issue which results in me hating and feeling disconnected from my MC who's not responding the way I've chosen for him to response. And this is just one of the several times this happens (probably the most blatant one, though, but all of them keep adding up to the point I just can't take my MC seriously, and all the intended drama becomes an awkward comedy).

Regarding Sage, I already said that MC might think she knows it so there's no point on telling her. That's a logical assumption I would understand. From a playing perspective, would it be fair and natural to have an option to tell her anyway? Sure, but here DPC never gives us that option so we just go with the flow and don't give it too much thought. So in terms of immersion this doesn't effect me as much as Maya's convo: I'm never allowed to tell Sage and, even if I think that option should be there, I can see a reason why my MC wouldn't feel the need to tell her. And this helps DPC to keep the story going to the conflict point he's planned. That's OK. But that Maya scene is terrible for players who choose to tell her. Even if in the future this mild warning helps Maya to step out of problems, what we were thinking was to avoid those problems completely by telling her now all the truth behind Quinn's offer. And we were thinking that only because DPC used the word EVERYTHING. He could have used other word, he could have made Maya totally dismiss our warning. Instead, he chose to make our MC absolutely uncapable of doing what the player was inducted to think he would do.

to be fair, the option is "Tell her what you know", not "Tell her EVERYTHING". what MC knows is that Quinn runs a "restaurant" with two girls working there (Riona is an easy conclusion for Japanese food but anyone including Quinn herself can be considered spicy unless you order it) and that she made Camila get naked in front of MC when he was stealing panties, which is not that different from what he and Derek had to do for DIKs so might as well be normal hazing. everything else is optional and DPC probably didn't want to have different dialogue to cover every possible situation

 

[moskyx]

Well, if that is the case it should make Sage very much less likeable to such MCs who do think that Quinn is 'evil'. If MC does not condone Quinn aking advantage of gullible, poor, young girls for her prostitution ring, he shouldn't condone Sage turning a blind eye to it either. Especially, since she has the power to stop it.

I really hope that Sage is completely in the dark regarding this.

You're right, if MC thinks she's also involved somehow, it wouldn't make so much sense trying to warn Maya about Quinn then tell her to trust Sage instead. So yeah, we definitely should be given an option to tell Sage about Quinn's shenanigans, especially if we're in her path, just as we could warn Maya. I expect that option to be there preferably sooner than later, and do hope our MC would be able to actually say what's going on. Each day passing without that option detracts from the intended 'realism' of the story and characterization. If some MCs care enough for Maya to try to warn her, any MC who's interested in a relationship with Sage should be willing to warn her too. Both girls should face similar conversations, approached from different perspectives obviously

to be fair, the option is "Tell her what you know", not "Tell her EVERYTHING". what MC knows is that Quinn runs a "restaurant" with two girls working there (Riona is an easy conclusion for Japanese food but anyone including Quinn herself can be considered spicy unless you order it) and that she made Camila get naked in front of MC when he was stealing panties, which is not that different from what he and Derek had to do for DIKs so might as well be normal hazing. everything else is optional and DPC probably didn't want to have different dialogue to cover every possible situation

My bad, I got carried away. Anyway, he knows there's a prostitution scheme run by Quinn, his thought just before the choice (the way she's USING Camila) makes it crystal clear. But then he says "she uses them to earn money" which of course is literally what he knows, but... come on. I'm sure that's not what you were expecting to be said

 

[felicemastronzo]

to be fair, the option is "Tell her what you know", not "Tell her EVERYTHING". what MC knows is that Quinn runs a "restaurant" with two girls working there (Riona is an easy conclusion for Japanese food but anyone including Quinn herself can be considered spicy unless you order it) and that she made Camila get naked in front of MC when he was stealing panties, which is not that different from what he and Derek had to do for DIKs so might as well be normal hazing. everything else is optional and DPC probably didn't want to have different dialogue to cover every possible situation

are there differences in the dialogues in case MC has used the restaurant or not?

if MC was a customer, not telling her directly would be more understandable (a bit vile, but understandable)

 

[Cigar-Ferras]

I was in tears (funny) again when the MC pokes Jill in the eye with the dildo hat

Is this on a DIK route or something? I didn't get that in my run, might be funny to see.

 

[moskyx]

are there differences in the dialogues in case MC has used the restaurant or not?

if MC was a customer, not telling her directly would be more understandable (a bit vile, but understandable)

No, yesterday I posted the whole script which is why we're talking about this

Sorry to bring this back again, but I just can't help it. The infamous "MC warns Maya about Quinn" scene. This is the script:

Spoiler: The convo

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[eightypercent]

Is this on a DIK route or something? I didn't get that in my run, might be funny to see.

I played the DIK route, yes. I have so far only played this game twice, each time via the DIK route. Derek is the funniest character in the story and shines at being a true DIK and the MC's Brother in Arms

EDIT funniest [hilarious, cringy and daring] in the things he does rather than what he says

 

[felicemastronzo]

No, yesterday I posted the whole script which is why we're talking about this

reading it at the same time what he says and what he thinks is really surreal.

MC doesn't control MC either, how do we want to control him?

 

[eightypercent]

I do hope the story gets to a point where those serious sexual issues will be treated as serious issues. I mean, the young guys and gals involved might not see any problem (this happens in real life too), but it is a problem. I honestly expect real life to hit hard later on, I would feel quite disappointed if that's not the case

Hey Moskyx, I understand what you are saying but I disagree with the idea of the BAD characters being judged too harshly in the context of the game and its nature. The game's purpose isn't to judge and take a moral high ground per se: it already does highlight relatively serious issues [cheating, homophobia, sexism, rich-poor divide... and many others] and does so in often touching and meaningful ways, but the game is here to entertain rather than educate. There are many different types of people in the world, and equally depicted in this game, and we cannot expect everyone to follow the same strict code of ethics that you seemingly wish to impose on the future story. "It is a problem" if you perceive it at such. If others view [real] life differently, then who are we to judge?

 

[Cigar-Ferras]

I played the DIK route, yes. I have so far only played this game twice, each time via the DIK route. Derek is the funniest character in the story and shines at being a true DIK and the MC's Brother in Arms

EDIT funniest [hilarious, cringy and daring] in the things he does rather than what he says

Ok sold. 3rd run will be full DIK route.

 

[felicemastronzo]

Hey Moskyx, I understand what you are saying but I disagree with the idea of the BAD characters being judged too harshly in the context of the game and its nature. The game's purpose isn't to judge and take a moral high ground per se: it already does highlight relatively serious issues [cheating, homophobia, sexism, rich-poor divide... and many others] and does so in often touching and meaningful ways, but the game is here to entertain rather than educate. There are many different types of people in the world, and equally depicted in this game, and we cannot expect everyone to follow the same strict code of ethics that you seemingly wish to impose on the future story. "It is a problem" if you perceive it at such. If others view [real] life differently, then who are we to judge?

if we talk about prostitution (it is not known if voluntary, but it would not seem so) and drugs there is not much subjective

then, in a porn game, some compromise with one's morality must be done, for example in half of the games with incest there is a rape ... but this does not make rape a subjective or acceptable matter

 

[xsssssssss]

if we talk about prostitution (it is not known if voluntary, but it would not seem so) and drugs there is not much subjective

then, in a porn game, some compromise with one's morality must be done, for example in half of the games with incest there is a rape ... but this does not make rape a subjective or acceptable matter

Of course there’s subjectivity about opinions on validity of prostitution and use of drugs.
The existing prostitutes all seem to be willing participants. If the new ones end up being forced that’s a different matter.

 

[moskyx]

Hey Moskyx, I understand what you are saying but I disagree with the idea of the BAD characters being judged too harshly in the context of the game and its nature. The game's purpose isn't to judge and take a moral high ground per se: it already does highlight relatively serious issues [cheating, homophobia, sexism, rich-poor divide... and many others] and does so in often touching and meaningful ways, but the game is here to entertain rather than educate. There are many different types of people in the world, and equally depicted in this game, and we cannot expect everyone to follow the same strict code of ethics that you seemingly wish to impose on the future story. "It is a problem" if you perceive it at such. If others view [real] life differently, then who are we to judge?

I'm not judging, but it doesn't matter if they don't see any problems. When someone plays with drugs and prostitution, chances in real life are that they might end burned some way or another. Very few people are able to get away with it unharmed. So I expect to see some serious consequences. There's no need to be moralists about it, just realistics. This is not a parody nor a light-hearted game, it aims for some level of realism so those kind of problems are to be expected and have been already hinted. Now, if you don't think a prostitution scheme with college girls might become a problem for the ones involved, then it's obvious we don't see real life in the same way. I surely expect DPC shows us some serious things related to that, but yeah, that's only my expectation, I don't want to impose my views (nor could I, btw).
Also, take Narcos or any other 'fictional' work about crime. It's pure entertainment, I don't think they are trying to educate and you might even feel attracted to the 'dark side way of life', but sure you can see where that code of ethics of theirs leads them. Life is the way it is, you can take it as you want but in the end some choices can potentially bring you more (and more serious) problems than others. It has nothing to do with trying to moralize, just showing probable consequences.

 

[moskyx]

Of course there’s subjectivity about opinions on validity of prostitution and use of drugs.
The existing prostitutes all seem to be willing participants. If the new ones end up being forced that’s a different matter.

Even if you are doing that work voluntarily, problems might arise. There are tons of things that could go wrong, even accidentally. Now it's just up to DPC if he wants to explore that dark path or not

 

[felicemastronzo]

Of course there’s subjectivity about opinions on validity of prostitution and use of drugs.
The existing prostitutes all seem to be willing participants. If the new ones end up being forced that’s a different matter.

Mona (not sure of the name) wants to get out and it doesn't seem so easy. Camilla is the only one who admits to doing it voluntarily, but it matters up to a certain point

 

[xsssssssss]

Mona (not sure of the name) wants to get out and it doesn't seem so easy. Camilla is the only one who admits to doing it voluntarily, but it matters up to a certain point

Sarah/melanie/camilla/riona all seem ok with it and the benefit it likely provides.
We don't know that Mona wants out or was forced or what even happened. She may have agreed voluntarily and then backed out at the last minute. She may have agreed but not liked Stephen's behaviour. The whole thing could be a red herring and have no relation to prostitution.

 

[Deleted member 2739658]

That's not a plot hole, that's bad writing. DPC is presenting us an option (tell her EVERYTHING what you know) but then the dialog doesn't match the option given because the natural outcome of it would ruin his planned plot. So the problem lies in the way he presents that option and that's completely a writing issue which results in me hating and feeling disconnected from my MC who's not responding the way I've chosen for him to response. And this is just one of the several times this happens (probably the most blatant one, though, but all of them keep adding up to the point I just can't take my MC seriously, and all the intended drama becomes an awkward comedy).

Regarding Sage, I already said that MC might think she knows it so there's no point on telling her. That's a logical assumption I would understand. From a playing perspective, would it be fair and natural to have an option to tell her anyway? Sure, but here DPC never gives us that option so we just go with the flow and don't give it too much thought. So in terms of immersion this doesn't effect me as much as Maya's convo: I'm never allowed to tell Sage and, even if I think that option should be there, I can see a reason why my MC wouldn't feel the need to tell her. And this helps DPC to keep the story going to the conflict point he's planned. That's OK. But that Maya scene is terrible for players who choose to tell her. Even if in the future this mild warning helps Maya to step out of problems, what we were thinking was to avoid those problems completely by telling her now all the truth behind Quinn's offer. And we were thinking that only because DPC used the word EVERYTHING wrote "tell her what you know". He could have used other words, he could have made Maya totally dismiss our warning. Instead, he chose to make our MC absolutely uncapable of doing what the player was induced to think he would do.

--
Edited for precission thanks to crabsinthekitchen

There are alot of problems with the story in this game. I agree with you about it feeling unnatural that the MC wouldn't explicitly tell Maya about what Quinn was doing. The whole dialogue feels very contrived. One of the problems that I've had with it is that the characters seem to be under the impression that the only obstacle to getting the scholarship is passing the Scavenger Hunt. It's blatantly obvious that Maya will be required to prostitute herself for the scholarship. Or, that Quinn could assign Maya several graphic sexual task that the other pledges didn't receive. If you don't warn Maya about Quinn, or ask her to approach Sage, it's stated in the dialogue that she's in a three person team with Camila and Mona. Are they assigned the same sexual task? After the sex in the bathroom scene with the MC it doesn't appear so, he actually ask the girls if that was one of their task. That's completely implausible.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

Umm, Stephen explicitly says they WILL be watching the tri-alphas, and Chad specifically warns Dawe that the counselors might learn about other things if they watch closely.

Spoiler: Pretty Much Exactly That

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I know Holy Bacchus can get wrapped up in his theories sometimes, but in this case I have to agree the evidence is pretty conclusive. We know Quinn had a talk with Dawe about getting money that didn't go well. We know she had been selling drugs to the jocks, and Dawe in particular, and they recently stopped buying. We know Chad had warned Dawe about some activity they didn't want the school to find out about. And we saw Dawe meet with Quinn in the Episode 3 wrap-up monologue.

Now it's true that we can't conclusively rule out that there was another unshown meeting where those things were discussed. But with all the things we do know, and with a complete absence of any evidence to contradict it, I see no reason not to take the evidence as presented: when they met, Dawe told Quinn that he didn't want to buy PEDs from her anymore due to the increased risk of being caught.

Now it's possible other topics were discussed during that meeting as well. So if you're trying to say, for example, Dawe could still have asked Quinn to frame the DIK, I agree that is possible (though it seems unlikely). Beyond that, though, I don't see much to argue about here.

Thank you.

As Holy Bacchus said, it’s not about destroying the DIKs. IMO it’s probably about feeding her habit. The fate of the DIKs are at best and afterthought and at worst ‘collateral’ damage. If she is an addict, then her main concern would be her next fix.

When have we seen her mismanage her prostitution business? (Other than being abusive to the girls?). Business seems to be booming, so much so she’s looking to add as many as 6 extra girls to the ranks. Meanwhile we know she using her own drugs and it’s heavily implied at times that she is high outside of a party situation (fly on face).

That all said the one possible out is that her dealer is making unreasonable demands on sales quotas. But between selling the sugar pills to the Jocks and the 2k deal Rich, it’s hard to see how they are coming up so short.

I don't think Quinn would think of it in such callous terms as "collateral damage", because that implies she'd be OK with doing something for herself even it meant seeing serious harm come to the DIKs which I don't believe is the case.

I stand by the view that Quinn is not a bad person, she simply makes bad choices, and you can see several instances in which she seems to understand the seriousness of those choices, like in ep 3 during the discussion with Riona and in ep 5 during the discussion with Tommy. Particularly with Tommy, his reaction wounds her because she didn't take the whole thing seriously and thought she could easily smooth things over, just like how she thought she'd get a big pay day out of the Preps, but she underestimated both of these things and you can see how it affects her.

I also don't believe she is an addict to the drugs, at least not to a self-destructive extent. If she's an addict to anything, it's to the power she feels she has over others. We also don't really know if the drug portion of her operation is what's really causing the most problems because in ep 3, her and Riona are talking about the money that the girls bring in and about how Melanie and Sarah are pulling in a lot from that but they're somehow still short, which is why, if you bought both Riona and Camila, Quinn suggests calling the MC for the threesome. So the prostitution stuff is also being mismanaged, not just the drugs.

Quinn's naive and arrogant, but she's not evil and callous. She plays a tough girl but isn't that tough deep down and I think we might see a bit of that when she goes to see her dealers in ep 6.

 

[Deleted member 2739658]

Mona (not sure of the name) wants to get out and it doesn't seem so easy. Camilla is the only one who admits to doing it voluntarily, but it matters up to a certain point

I've, unfortunately, had lot's of IRL experience with the world of prostitution through my work. Nobody grows up wanting to be a prostitute. The vast majority of girl's, and boys, who enter into prostitution are psychologically manipulated into it by pimps. Maya does actually meet the criteria. First there's the enticement, she needs the scholarship. She's also an introvert, alienated from her family and friends. This and some other factors, like the use of physical and sexual abuse, make her a fairly easy target. We don't know enough about Camila and Mona, but Rionna also seems to share many of the traits.

The one glaring point is that Josy states that she's going for the scholarship too, and that makes no sense at all. Josy's characters main focus is her love for her Father, and in the beginning of the game we learn that she's been living in fear that she's lost that love through her parents divorce and the introduction of Monica and Tommy into her family. Josy is also outgoing, forming a new friendship with Jill on her first day of classes as just one example, so she's not emotionally isolated enough to be vulnerable. She would also never risk being diminished in her Father's eyes, especially after the reconciliation scene in ep5.