VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [Dr PinkCake]

[ChipLecsap]

Maybe 99%...



I feel that trying to make everything a shocking twist winds up undercutting the impact twists should have. But the letter has been specifically singled out as an upcoming plot point, and the fact there are missing details in the story of the MC's mother has been foreshadowed from Day 1. So it does seem like a proper candidate for a big, dramatic reveal.

That said, I don't think the mere fact the MC would be shocked by contents of the letter would be an effective cliffhanger. We would need some sort of context for what had shocked him. Otherwise it will just come across as a cheap tease. It's possible we could be given context by something else (say, a Burgmeister crest on the letter, or Neil telling the MC that it's time he told the MC who his mother really was).

But I think the best way to sell the impact of something like that would be for the MC to read the letter himself, reveal the TWIST(tm), and then cut to Punk Rock Flu. That way the start of Episode 7 wouldn't have to waste time with exposition, it can sum it up during the 'Previously On' montage and get straight to the relevant reaction from the MC. Plus, that way the opening flashback could give us additional details on the events without rendering the eventual explanation to the MC redundant.

IMHO that was one of the problems in Episode 5. The DIK flashback made it obvious the MC and Derek had aced Hell Week, so having to watch them wait through judgement was less an example of dramatic irony and more a like waiting for characters to catch up with the audience.

I agree almost everything except the last part. . I don't think the flashback spoiled the outcome of hell week. We all knew they would be accepted, not being accepted would not make any sense. The flashback meaning was more than that. it is more in line with the end of the episode. or at least that how I see it.

"waiting for characters to catch up with the audience. " this part is true however, also, this can be said about any other thing, because we the audience have knowledge about stuff that the characters do not have. so they will always have to keep up, how they will react is where the flexibility and surprise can happen. I think

 

[Holy Bacchus]

I feel that trying to make everything a shocking twist winds up undercutting the impact twists should have. But the letter has been specifically singled out as an upcoming plot point, and the fact there are missing details in the story of the MC's mother has been foreshadowed from Day 1. So it does seem like a proper candidate for a big, dramatic reveal.

That said, I don't think the mere fact the MC would be shocked by contents of the letter would be an effective cliffhanger. We would need some sort of context for what had shocked him. Otherwise it will just come across as a cheap tease. It's possible we could be given context by something else (say, a Burgmeister crest on the letter, or Neil telling the MC that it's time he told the MC who his mother really was).

But I think the best way to sell the impact of something like that would be for the MC to read the letter himself, reveal the TWIST(tm), and then cut to Punk Rock Flu. That way the start of Episode 7 wouldn't have to waste time with exposition, it can sum it up during the 'Previously On' montage and get straight to the relevant reaction from the MC. Plus, that way the opening flashback could give us additional details on the events without rendering the eventual explanation to the MC redundant.

IMHO that was one of the problems in Episode 5. The DIK flashback made it obvious the MC and Derek had aced Hell Week, so having to watch them wait through judgement was less an example of dramatic irony and more a like waiting for characters to catch up with the audience.

I certainly agree about not making everything a shock twist and it's why I think some things could be a bit more predictable than others, like how ep 6 might end. It might seem like a "cheap tease", but it's effective, and I personally don't mind when this sort of thing happens even if I do groan about it when it does. You want to keep your audience, fans, players, etc, salivating for more and making them stew over something huge that ends the episode and leaves them in suspense does just that.

The thing about the DIK flashback is that it was exposition that kind of undercuts what happens next because there didn't really seem to be much context around why this was important to see. It wasn't like the M&J flashback which was at least an expositional follow-on from the ep 3 reveal, and it wasn't as if Tommy was giving some speech about the founding of the DIKs during the evaluation either, it was just there for the sake of being there. It may serve a purpose later, but it did undercut the expected seriousness of the Hell Week evaluation to find out that it didn't really matter.

However, if ep 6 were to end on the letter reveal as the cliffhanger and have a flashback at the start of ep 7 to reveal some details of it, it could work better by then cutting to Neil who it's revealed would be telling a more detailed story about the MC's Mom and how she and him got together. It would then be in a conversation with Neil that we find out what the other contents of the letter are (inheritance, an invite to meet with his grandparents, etc), and that, for me, would work quite well if that were the case.

as for the "ending of The Sixth Sense" meh, you look back, and you are like, yeah it's so obvious
The ending of Inception, now that is an ending.

Sixth Sense was easy. I had that figured out halfway through the movie, and I watched it when the "twist ending" was a well-known thing even though I didn't know it when I saw it the first time.

Chrisopher Nolan movies are generally more about confusing the audience than they are about having shocking twists and that's how Inception feels; confusing.

 

[SPACE_BOOOOOST]

as for the "ending of The Sixth Sense" meh, you look back, and you are like, yeah it's so obvious
The ending of Inception, now that is an ending.

Hmm, Yeah I do believe you have a little bit of unrealistic expectation, and not because this a visual novel, its not really different than a book, and books can be surprising to, but because it is not a good comperation

think of it as like a tv show, and when people watching these shows, they make so many prediction , that eventually some of them are gonna be real. this does not take away anything from the story, they are just smart enough to understand the plot and figuring out the possible outcomes, or they are just lucky with some of their crazy theories . the point is it is not the writing fault.

and in Badik, we do make theories, so many that i feel like if some of them won'T be real, peoples may find that to be upsetting for them. I' mean, if Chad's secret, is something else than him being gay , some people might be even upset, or goes as far, saying, that would been better, instead of what we get.
and this would not be DPC fault.
the same can be said about the letter thing.

I'm at the point where very few thing can surprise me, . and you I don't expect to be surprised, so it will be a nice surprise if I'm surprised.

The ending twist of The Sixth Sense (or any movie that has one for that matter) would be rather weak if you looked back at the rest of the story and couldn't find clues that hinted at it, that's kind of the point. Otherwise it's just something the writer pulled out of their ass last minute because they couldn't come up with a fitting closure. But Inception's ending is superb too, no arguments there.

As for the original topic, the reason I have faith in DPC coming up with something other than what we think we've figured out is because he has snuck in a few good ones already. Assuming he's out of creative and unexpected ideas would be an insult on my part. Like I said, I won't be upset if that whole "letter from mom" plot line ends up exactly as Bacchus predicted it, but I also won't stop hoping for something fresh until it actually happens.

 

[Jimayo]

as for the "ending of The Sixth Sense" meh, you look back, and you are like, yeah it's so obvious
The ending of Inception, now that is an ending.

I hate that that's everyone's gold standard for twist ending and it's far from the best. The gold standard should be either the usual suspects or fight club.

 

[ename144]

I agree almost everything except the last part. . I don't think the flashback spoiled the outcome of hell week. We all knew they would be accepted, not being accepted would not make any sense. The flashback meaning was more than that. it is more in line with the end of the episode. or at least that how I see it.

"waiting for characters to catch up with the audience. " this part is true however, also, this can be said about any other thing, because we the audience have knowledge about stuff that the characters do not have. so they will always have to keep up, how they will react is where the flexibility and surprise can happen. I think

Having the audience know more than the characters isn't necessarily a problem, especially if you use it to build suspense. Alfred Hitchcock practically built his career out of making the audience beg for a character to notice something.

And I don't think the flashback ruined the Hell Week review. I just think it made the review fall flatter than it needed to because we had already seen all the events and we knew the final verdict. The only tension was whether the MC or Derek would win, and I suspect for most playthroughs even that was pretty foregone.

 

[SPACE_BOOOOOST]

I hate that that's everyone's gold standard for twist ending and it's far from the best. The gold standard should be either the usual suspects or fight club.

Or - alternatively - we could also not argue over something so clearly subjective and let others enjoy different things. Just throwing it out there, take it or leave it.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

The ending twist of The Sixth Sense (or any movie that has one for that matter) would be rather weak if you looked back at the rest of the story and couldn't find clues that hinted at it, that's kind of the point. Otherwise it's just something the writer pulled out of their ass last minute because they couldn't come up with a fitting closure. But Inception's ending is superb too, no arguments there.

As for the original topic, the reason I have faith in DPC coming up with something other than what we think we've figured out is because he has snuck in a few good ones already. Assuming he's out of creative and unexpected ideas would be an insult on my part. Like I said, I won't be upset if that whole "letter from mom" plot line ends up exactly as Bacchus predicted it, but I also won't stop hoping for something fresh until it actually happens.

So far, I would say that there hasn't been too much regarding the narrative and story that's been a "shock reveal" because we're still waiting on a lot of it to be revealed. The only big thing at the moment has been the M&J reveal, and I had that figured out by the start of ep 3.

I suppose we have to look again at AL and with that there certainly were a few shock moments and reveals, but there weren't as many story threads in that one as this one. With AL, the 2 biggest shock moments were the fire and Leah being a psycho stalker killer, and there were other smaller things like Liam's cancer not being real and geting dumped if you screwed around with other girls, but the scope of that game was a lot smaller than this one and certain things, like the potential polyamorous relationship with Megan and Melissa and getting Liam & Rena together, were quite predictable.

So, given that BaDIK is much bigger in scope, perhaps there's more potential for predictability than there was with AL, especially since the genre it's being based on is quite formulaic.

I hate that that's everyone's gold standard for twist ending and it's far from the best. The gold standard should be either the usual suspects or fight club.

Usual Suspects, yes, that's a great twist ending. I would also add Primal Fear to that as well.

Sixth Sense and Shyamalan are overrated.

 

[LazerShark]

I'm not the only one who thinks Anthony is better president material than Dawe, right? Even though he is stupid, he has actually shown to be a reasonable dude for most part of the game. This is just my opinion, but if he was president instead of Dawe, I wouldn't imagine any scenario where the alphas would trash our mansion. What about you? What's your opinion on Anthony?

 

[Dashxp4k]

Each Episode Endings

Episode 1:


Episode 2:


Episode 3:


Episode 4:


Episode 5:

 

[ChipLecsap]

Each Episode Endings

Episode 1:
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Episode 2:
View attachment 803558 View attachment 803559

Episode 3:
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Episode 4:
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Episode 5:
View attachment 803557

episode 3 ending is incorrect, the actual ending, is who you stay with .
but so far each one was good enough. I do think however that ep5 with that ending , and with everything overall , would feel better as a season finale, rather than a season opener. season 1 with the end of whether we get the jacket or not cliffhanger felt cheap.
ep 5 should have been the end of Season 1, I think people would feel, more satisfied.

 

[Dashxp4k]

If you chose Derrek in episode.

 

[cryhwks]

I wish there would have been an option to stay with Jill at the end of Episode 3.

 

[AntiFlash]

Do you think that in this Episode 6 we will have a sex scene with Jill?

 

[Mistrophera]

Do you think that in this Episode 6 we will have a sex scene with Jill?

It will certainly have something hotter than her and MC just making out, maybe we can finally see her fully naked, but a for a full-on sex scene, I very much doubt.

 

[Randy6524793]

when will be the next update

 

[Wizard_Shiryuu]

Nah, predictability can be fun. That moment when something happens that you saw coming and you go, "Hah! I knew it!", can be quite enjoyable.

If he does something different and it works, that'll be fine too and I could see a few ways where the episode could end even before he goes home and gets the letter, but ending on that note just seems right because it's a tried and true way to tease your audience in the most agonising and effective way, especially when we know how many months it will be before we find out the contents of the letter.

Technically the letter was already this episode's cliffhanger, I would't like to use the same thing twice. I'd expect to know something more about what's in it and get a WTF moment at least, not leave us with the same info two episodes in a row.

And get more info about Chad's blackmail, we don't know anything more about it since episode 2 .

 

[lemonfreak]

The revelation of who his Mom was and what Neil actually knew but didn't tell him. But that won't happen until ep 7 because you just know that the MC opening the letter is going to be a cliffhanger ending.

Interesting that you think it'll be in 7 because I think it'll be 8 but I'm not sure whether I believe that for storytelling purposes or because I think the shot of MC's face, upon reading the letter, would be one hell of a cliffhanger at the end of the next Steam version.

I'm not the only one who thinks Anthony is better president material than Dawe, right? Even though he is stupid, he has actually shown to be a reasonable dude for most part of the game. This is just my opinion, but if he was president instead of Dawe, I wouldn't imagine any scenario where the alphas would trash our mansion. What about you? What's your opinion on Anthony?

You're not alone in that thought and I also suspect Anthony is less stupid and more mouthbefore brain. Or, at the very least, no more stupid than a 35 year old who has repeatedly failed English and Maths 101

 

[felicemastronzo]

expectations on the twist about MC's mother seem exaggerated to me.

I still believe it unlikely, or in any case a stretch in the plot, that a boy of twenty has no idea who his mother is, we are used to stories of adopted children who do everything to find out who their real parents are while MC would be satisfied with know the name of a mother he has never seen ..

ok, let's say I accept it.

Why should he be upset about being a Burgmeister? it could only be good news (even though he already knew that his mother's family was rich) or at least not change anything for his life.

the hypothesis that he is a Royce was, rightly, discarded, but it would already make more sense as a twist, it would have a direct effect on his life (but too limited, if he does not care about Jill it would still be insignificant)

if it will be an important twist it must be something more important and personal.

even the idea that the mother is still alive (crazy in an asylum? ex toxic in a rehab?) would seem extreme to me, and in that case it would completely break the relationship between MC and his father.

I also point to something we have not thought of (which I hope DPC has thought well)

 

[Ragnar]

I don't think the MC is a Buggermaster or a Royce, It would be cheap and too convenient going to your family college without knowing it. My bet is we saw MC's grandpa in the preps party and we will meet him later, a rich dude with connections but not a B&R.

 

[lemonfreak]

expectations on the twist about MC's mother seem exaggerated to me.

I still believe it unlikely, or in any case a stretch in the plot, that a boy of twenty has no idea who his mother is, we are used to stories of adopted children who do everything to find out who their real parents are while MC would be satisfied with know the name of a mother he has never seen ..

ok, let's say I accept it.

Why should he be upset about being a Burgmeister? it could only be good news (even though he already knew that his mother's family was rich) or at least not change anything for his life.

the hypothesis that he is a Royce was, rightly, discarded, but it would already make more sense as a twist, it would have a direct effect on his life (but too limited, if he does not care about Jill it would still be insignificant)

if it will be an important twist it must be something more important and personal.

even the idea that the mother is still alive (crazy in an asylum? ex toxic in a rehab?) would seem extreme to me, and in that case it would completely break the relationship between MC and his father.

I also point to something we have not thought of (which I hope DPC has thought well)

Replying mostly to the bolded section ... I think you're misreading the situation, MC isn't an adopted kid looking for his birth parents, he knows who his parents are/were, it's the family of his mother that he doesn't know and, from what we've seen, doesn't care to know.

In this context, him being a Burgmeister means very little (him being a Royce would for the reasons you pointed out but we know that ain't happening)

As for the rest of your post, 100% agree, it would be terrible to discover that Neil had been lying about Lynette being dead for 18 years (MC is 18, nearly 19, btw, not 20), he's been presented as a loving and supportive father who, despite being broke, does everything he possibly can for his son in stark contrast to Lynette's father who cut her off for the unforgivable crime of falling in love with one of the serfs.