VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [Dr PinkCake]

[lemonfreak]

maybe some kind soul could help me out ?

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[Doorknocker]

It does not matter whether this would possible in the real world, all that matters is that the situation within this story is consistent.

My understanding is that a massive dose of gamma radiation would be fatal but we still have the Incredible Hulk.

Huh. Are you making the argument that suspension of disbelief is always equal, no matter what it is or how it's done? And that the suspension of disbelief is never broken, and this never affects a reader/viewer/player's experience of the story?

 

[Gladheim]

Josy so small

Josy is perfect, Jill is BIG xD

 

[horusxcaen82]

Kellermann hows it look now ?

 

[felicemastronzo]

It does not matter whether this would possible in the real world, all that matters is that the situation within this story is consistent.

My understanding is that a massive dose of gamma radiation would be fatal but we still have the Incredible Hulk.

but Banner doesn't repeat it to you on every occasion how he had the powers

in the new Spiderman movies they don't show you the spider bite anymore, it's a tacit agreement, you pretend to believe it and they propose you a new story

that situation served the plot, ok, I accept it, DPC must not try to convince me that it's true true true, indeed he must make me forget

 

[Kellermann]

Kellermann hows it look now ?

Awesome! Never a bad choice with Sage and your avatar is one of my favorite shots of MC and his sister/aunt Jill. Just kidding forum! Don't kill me Jill Royce

 

[lemonfreak]

One's supposedly based in realism with good writing.

One's comic-book fantasy.

Get over yourself. It's inconsistent within the context of it's own story. Like I said, blind fanatacism.

One is a light hearted exagerration to get the point across, the other is simply failing to see the incosistency within the story that you are so desparate to see. I have no doubt that in real life many of the situations in this game would be impossible but I don't care about that, I simply want it to make internal sense (or at least not beat me over the head with its' inconsistencies, eg. MC having simultaneous phone converstaions with 2 different people which, so far, there haven't bee as far as I can remember)

 

[Doorknocker]

One's supposedly based in realism with good writing.

One's comic-book fantasy.

Get over yourself. It's inconsistent within the context of it's own story. Like I said, blind fanatacism.

Yeah, plus the Hulk's plot was made in the 60's when no one took any of that stuff seriously. There are a lot of old comic book character aspects that wouldn't really fly today if they weren't grandfathered in. Superman taking off his glasses and being Clark Kent is one example. Nostalgia and intertia matters in that stuff.

 

[godkingxerxes]

On the topic of Maya/Josy, what do you think the chance that they get split up following the confrontation with big daddy?

I think they will, with Josy doing some HOT living and Maya chilling in her room watching movies.

Would give players the choice of paths going forward, Josy path, Maya path, reconciliation path.

Hoping for the Josy path personally, have no real interest in Maya, everytime I come back to the game, she keeps moving further down my list, at this point, rather be the bottom in a Chad/Troy threesome than be with Maya.

 

[GingerSweetGirl]

It does not matter whether this would possible in the real world, all that matters is that the situation within this story is consistent.

Yes and no. I agree that, in fiction, internal consistency is key. This allows concepts like dragons and magic, so just long as they are internally consistent with the rules of the narrative.

But that isn’t a free pass, and when dealing with grounded issues like finances people are less forgiving. No one knows how a dragon would behave, so there’s lots of leeway there. But many of us know about student loans. We know how they’re obtained and disbursed. Utilizing them as a major plot point requires careful implementation because many players understand the rules governing them. To insert a wrinkle to the student loan that doesn’t exist in real life is an absolutely fair thing to critique. And because this issue is central to one character’s motivation it gets extra attention.

So DPC can be as consistent as he wants, it doesn’t change that the concept is fundamentally flawed.

 

[Kellermann]

Josy is perfect, Jill is BIG xD

And she's even wearing flats! In episode 6 DPC just said, fuck it, and maxed out Jill's body sliders. You could serve a tray of drinks on that ass shelf. No spills.

 

[lemonfreak]

Yes and no. I agree that, in fiction, internal consistency is key. This allows concepts like dragons and magic, so just long as they are internally consistent with the rules of the narrative.

But that isn’t a free pass, and when dealing with grounded issues like finances people are less forgiving. No one knows how a dragon would behave, so there’s lots of leeway there. But many of us know about student loans. We know how they’re obtained and disbursed. Utilizing them as a major plot point requires careful implementation because many players understand the rules governing them. To insert a wrinkle to the student loan that doesn’t exist in real life is an absolutely fair thing to critique. And because this issue is central to one character’s motivation it gets extra attention.

So DPC can be as consistent as he wants, it doesn’t change that the concept is fundamentally flawed.

Then we'll have to agree to disagree because I could not care less if an actual college loan doesn't work the way DPC describes it in his fictional setting, only that it isn't so glaringly inconsistent within its' own story that it breaks immersion.

 

[shazba]

...college loan funds cannot be used for anything else. He is also breaking the law by witholding it for any reason. No matter which way you look at it, from what angle...it's so inconsistent and full of holes. This is my main issue with the die hards. So willing to overlook it's many flaws due to complete blind fanatacism.

...It’s an immersion breaking mistake because the very premise of Maya’s problem is invalid.

In this case I think the situation, at least as we currently know it, is too implausible. Maya's actual description is nonsense, but technical terms of art are often misused in fiction. The important part is the threat to Maya's financial future. That requires both that Maya's dad controls the ability to call in her debts at any time AND the ability to direct the money as he sees fit (lest she simply pay the loan back and take out a new, honest one ASAP). That's not impossible, but it's extremely convoluted and the game has not provided anywhere near enough context to show how it might have happened.

It's particularly egregious given how often the MC's poor background is brought up. It is simply not plausible that he can easily afford tuition at B&R, but that Maya would be ruined for life if she were unable to pay for it. If the MC had won some sort of scholarship, or if Maya's financial troubles extended beyond mere tuition, it might work. But the MC is routinely implied to be a middle-of-the-road academic and his athletic skills are only a hobby. So as is, I agree it feels like lazy writing that needed an excuse for Maya to behave the way she does and didn't care enough to properly consider the details.

there the mistake was wanting to insist on the point, practically every time Maya comes up with this story, it had to be left as a vague problem, instead I imagine that in the next chapter Maya will show us the bank statement of operations

One's supposedly based in realism with good writing.

One's comic-book fantasy.

Get over yourself. It's inconsistent within the context of it's own story. Like I said, blind fanatacism.

Yes and no. I agree that, in fiction, internal consistency is key. This allows concepts like dragons and magic, so just long as they are internally consistent with the rules of the narrative.

But that isn’t a free pass, and when dealing with grounded issues like finances people are less forgiving. No one knows how a dragon would behave, so there’s lots of leeway there. But many of us know about student loans. We know how they’re obtained and disbursed. Utilizing them as a major plot point requires careful implementation because many players understand the rules governing them. To insert a wrinkle to the student loan that doesn’t exist in real life is an absolutely fair thing to critique. And because this issue is central to one character’s motivation it gets extra attention.

So DPC can be as consistent as he wants, it doesn’t change that the concept is fundamentally flawed.

There are ways this can all be validated.

• In episode 1 it's established that MC's dad has saved up for his tuition. They make do with many inferior things, but the dad has placed high priority on his son's education and has been putting money away for years. It's an acceptable premise, so like, you know, accept it...
• Now this is my speculation, but it's possible: Maya's dad may or may not have the cash but he didn't offer to give it to Maya and expected her to take out a student loan. Prior to her realizing her dad was going to blackmail her, he assures her it is better that he co-signs in case she can't pay the debt back. He probably does the same thing for Derek, cosigns both their loans, like a good father might. So Maya gets a student *cash* loan (they exist look it up). The dad "assists" but then has the money placed into an account that Maya doesn't have access to, that's where he tricks her. Then he hits her with the ultimatum.
• Maya can't just go and get another loan. She has no earning capacity, she's now already in debt, her father won't cosign the second loan. She's basically fucked.
• Maya could definitely take the case to court and would win hands down, she just has to have the guts to stand up to her father and do it. This is her problem, she's a pushover. Hopefully the MC will help her stand up to this bigot of a father.

So yeah, you can all say how improbable it is etc. but it can be rationalized. If it can be rationalized it is therefore probable. DPC doesn't have to spell out all the legalities, show everyone the loan forms and have the fans get their own lawyers to read over the in-game loan clauses...

So anyone saying this is a plot hole, bad writing etc. is flat out wrong. Of course, if you can prove it is a plot hole, prove it. But don't tell me the funds cannot be used for anything other than the tuition, because people misuse their college loans in real life (and the dad is threatening Maya, he hasn't gone and spent the money). Don't tell me she could just get another loan, because as soon as the new creditor sees she already has a student loan out, they won't help her, she's a liability (unless she goes through some loan shark and everyone will be crying that DPC has just done that to add more drama).

 

[Gladheim]

And she's even wearing flats! In episode 6 DPC just said, fuck it, and maxed out Jill's body sliders. You could serve a tray of drinks on that ass shelf. No spills.

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[felicemastronzo]

On the topic of Maya/Josy, what do you think the chance that they get split up following the confrontation with big daddy?

I think they will, with Josy doing some HOT living and Maya chilling in her room watching movies.

Would give players the choice of paths going forward, Josy path, Maya path, reconciliation path.

Hoping for the Josy path personally, have no real interest in Maya, everytime I come back to the game, she keeps moving further down my list, at this point, rather be the bottom in a Chad/Troy threesome than be with Maya.

I also believe that it could be an opportunity to shuffle the cards.

but the choice between Maya and Josy should be the one anticipated to Derek (in the case of friendship route), therefore with a blocked path, while for those in the trouple route there could be more possibilities or only that of reconciliation or abandonment

 

[horusxcaen82]

Awesome! Never a bad choice with Sage and your avatar is one of my favorite shots of MC and his sister/aunt Jill. Just kidding forum! Don't kill me Jill Royce

I can see why people make that connection but I'm sorry I dont buy it, Jill would have to be at least in her late 20s to make any sense of that.

And she's even wearing flats! In episode 6 DPC just said, fuck it, and maxed out Jill's body sliders. You could serve a tray of drinks on that ass shelf. No spills.

If Jill twerked she'd split the world in half World War Hulk style.

 

[lemonfreak]

There are ways this can all be validated.

• In episode 1 it's established that MC's dad has saved up for his tuition. They make do with many inferior things, but the dad has placed high priority on his son's education and has been putting money away for years. It's an acceptable premise, so like, you know, accept it...
• Now this is my speculation, but it's possible: Maya's dad may or may not have the cash but he didn't offer to give it to Maya and expected her to take out a student loan. Prior to her realizing her dad was going to blackmail her, he assures her it is better that he co-signs in case she can't pay the debt back. He probably does the same thing for Derek, cosigns both their loans, like a good father might. So Maya gets a student *cash* loan (they exist look it up). The dad "assists" but then has the money placed into an account that Maya doesn't have access to, that's where he tricks her. Then he hits her with the ultimatum.
• Maya can't just go and get another loan. She has no earning capacity, she's now already in debt, her father won't cosign the second loan. She's basically fucked.
• Maya could definitely take the case to court and would win hands down, she just has to have the guts to stand up to her father and do it. This is her problem, she's a pushover. Hopefully the MC will help her stand up to this bigot of a father.

So yeah, you can all say how improbable it is etc. but it can be rationalized. If it can be rationalized it is therefore probable. DPC doesn't have to spell out all the legalities, show everyone the loan forms and have the fans get their own lawyers to read over the in-game loan clauses...

So anyone saying this is a plot hole, bad writing etc. is flat out wrong. Of course, if you can prove it is a plot hole, prove it. But don't tell me the funds cannot be used for anything other than the tuition, because people misuse their college loans in real life (and the dad is threatening Maya, he hasn't gone and spent the money). Don't tell me she could just get another loan, because as soon as the new creditor sees she already has a student loan out, they won't help her, she's a liability (unless she goes through some loan shark and everyone will be crying that DPC has just done that to add more drama).

Further to your points, people wanting Maya has had 3-4 months to undo 18 years worth of upbringing from a bigotted, bullying father. Possible but not fucking likely.

 

[Kellermann]

I can see why people make that connection but I'm sorry I dont buy it, Jill would have to be at least in her late 20s to make any sense of that.

Yeah, it's totally made up, but if you want everyone to hate you then that's the theory to post on the forum.

 

[horusxcaen82]

Yeah, it's totally made up, but if you want everyone to hate you then that's the theory to post on the forum.

nah Im on the CHIK route with this thread no hate

 

[godkingxerxes]

I also believe that it could be an opportunity to shuffle the cards.

but the choice between Maya and Josy should be the one anticipated to Derek (in the case of friendship route), therefore with a blocked path, while for those in the trouple route there could be more possibilities or only that of reconciliation or abandonment

You'd block off a path based on a throw away conversation with a character not even involved in the relationship.

That's harsh.

Find for me, I said Josy to him and Josy only one of the two I'm interested in. MC gotta finish what he started before he can move on.