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Niu6609

Member
Apr 28, 2021
201
420
I have been playing again the scene of the last chapter when the MC tells Sage about Chad being gay, and Tremolo´s attitude pisses me off. It doesn´t make any sense.

Tremolo is saying his gorgeous lover and/or friend that the fucking guy that ambushed him to attack him in the middle of the nigh, and the fucking guy that was such an asshole with him when they were room mates, that made him leave his room, are a gay couple... and his concern is the reaction of Sage!!! He doesn´t mind about Sage´s welfare after knowing that her long-time boyfriend actually is a gay that used her as an alibi. He only cares about Chad and Troy´s secret... It doesn´t make any sense at all!!!

What the hell was DPC thinking about when he wrote that scene? Fucking Chad and fucking Troy should be the last of Tremolo´s concerns. This dialogue is plain stupid:

"- Sage: What the fuck are you worried about?
- Tremolo: Like I said before, I´m worried about your reaction. It´s a huge thing I´m about to tell you. If you don´t react well to it, I´m gonna feel like shit for more than a reason."


Seriously, why the fuck would Tremolo care about Chad and Troy way more then about Sage´s welfare? Sage should have punched fucking Tremolo in his face, and not because anger management issues.

"- Sage: You care about those two and their fucking secret more than you care about me???? Your concern is not that I´m going to feel like shit, but that maybe I´m going to get angry and confront fucking Chad in front of his subhuman mates about being gay and using me for more than a year as an alibi in order of not being suspect of liking men instead of women? Go fuck yourself, Tremolo."

Again, I don´t know what was DPC thinking about when he wrote that scene. A character is gay an into the closed, and suddenly that becomes the most important thing for everybody? :FacePalm::FacePalm::FacePalm:
You clearly haven´t read the dialogues. Tremolo doesn´t say to Sage "I´m worried about you". He says to her "I´m worried about your reaction" and "I´m worried about feeling myself like shit". Again:
"- Sage: What the fuck are you worried about?
- Tremolo: Like I said before, I´m worried about your reaction. It´s a huge thing I´m about to tell you. If you don´t react well to it, I´m gonna feel like shit for more than a reason."
"-- Tremolo: It´s clearly a secret they don´t plan to reveal. And that´s why I wasn´t sure if I should tell you or not".


I´m talking about the things that are written in the dialogues, not about interpretations. Why the fuck Tremolo would feel like shit about Chad and Troy´s secret? They are the guys that have harassed him for weeks and, worst of it, they have hurt Sage for months or even years. I don´t even think that Sage should feel bad for exposing Chad´s sexuality. He has been making her miserable, again, for months or even years. Why suddenly Chad and Troy´s secret is so important for the people that they have been harming with that secret and their behavior? My answer is: political correctness.
Honestly, it's not that I don't understand your point of view. It can, to some, seem like the MC at that moment is focused on keeping Chad and Troy's relationship a secret and protecting it from others.

From my POV, however, what the MC is doing is, first, mentally preparing Sage for an enormous bomb that he's about to drop. We all know Sage has a few anger issues and isn't the most mentally stable person on campus. He's hesitating because, as he says, he's worried as to how she'll actually react. He's been trying to get closer to Sage all this while too, so just the mere mention of this issue could result in a relapse of Sage's obsession with Chad, which ultimately ruins his chances with Sage.

Second, self-protection also plays a factor in this confession. Imagine if he revealed the secret to Sage, and she reacted absolutely horrendously, going as far as to confront and maybe even pick fights with Troy and Chad, who she is no longer a couple with, and gets reported for assault (because let's be honest, if Chad got punched in the face, he'd bruise like a peach). This could eventually unravel into fingers being pointed at the MC and having the source of the whole situation being pinned on him.

And third, it could be due to, as you said, mainstream thinking. The morally acceptable thing to do here would be to keep it a secret, as it really isn't his secret to tell, and he doesn't want people thinking of him as a tattletale or a whistleblower.

As for the previous run-ins with Chad and Troy, honestly, I absolutely want to get revenge on Troy, but Chad? He's actually quite reasonable, as exhibited in the HOTs party in Episode 7. He knows that he was in the wrong for assaulting the MC the one time and even says that he's cool. So I'd prefer another method of getting back at Troy, whilst not endangering Chad's livelihood too badly.
 

ThomasZ3

New Member
Jul 23, 2020
14
5
Hi, i have a question. I play with an android and i can't seem to find the save files. I tried looking in Android/data but can't seem to find It.
 

hakuna-matata

Well-Known Member
May 30, 2020
1,349
5,448
We fundamentally disagree on these two points. Exposing a personal detail about someone, especially something that vulnerable just doesn't sit right with me.
It's okay for that said person to manipulate, lie, use and lead on another human for years due to your own selfish reasons? Everything goes out the window the moment you do something like that. That's absolutely despicable behavior!

Chad is a not a victim! The only victim here is SAGE and partially MC too because he was bullied and physically assaulted by Chad.
 
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DavDR

Well-Known Member
Oct 14, 2020
1,990
3,264
You'll note that Sage, despite her complaints, at no point dumps Chad herself. She flatly refuses to consider it if the MC proposes anything like that, and will literally erupt into violence when Chad does finally break up with her. Even after she cools down a bit, Sage remains obsessed with finding out who the other girl was.

Sage's feelings for Chad are more complex than you are acknowledging. That's not an interpretation, that's literally the script of the game. You can disagree with her continuing to care about Chad as much as you want, but she clearly does.
Sage had a crush on Chad, that's clearly portrayed in the flashback sequence. And sometimes even the most intelligent people have a blind spot, especially when it's about getting something that they want. Also, if there's a switch that turns off love or a crush, I've never been able to find it. So of course she still has feelings for Chad.
 
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felicemastronzo

Devoted Member
May 17, 2020
11,112
21,729
Are you doing a playthru where you are pursuing Sage as a LI? If so then I think your loyalty should be with the person that you say you love, and not just some guy you know. Chad used Sage, played with her feelings to obtain a benefit for himself. Being gay doesn't absolve him for that.
But that can't be the discriminating factor, because otherwise it becomes a selfish act and not an altruistic one.

if for Sage's sake it's right to reveal why Chad behaved in a certain way, then it's always right, even if she's just a friend

otherwise we tell her to gain something for ourselves, to speed up her going beyond that story.

since Chad SHOULD have told her without any ifs or buts, doing it for her is acceptable, risky because then we rely on Sage's cold blood (which is not her best quality) but acceptable
 
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Kellermann

Engaged Member
Oct 20, 2020
3,613
11,655
I thought for sure DPC was going to have the pancake fall back down right in Bella's cleavage. Missed opportunity. I got myself all prepared to laugh at a joke that never arrived.

about minigames, you're preaching to the choir, but even there the will of DPC is clear, it has replaced very amateur games, with more advanced ones

about fillers it's hard to answer, it depends on how you look at it but in reality a lot of AVN is simply filler, which you may or may not like.
What I mean is I believe DPC's imagination has outpaced the confines of Ren'py. I think he wants to move beyond a visual novel style of storytelling and instead create adult AAA games, something along the lines of a Mass Effect game (not necessarily the genre but the style and ambition of it). A game with a lot of shiny pieces, moving parts, and some lewds thrown in for good measure. At that point, Ren'py becomes more of a hinderance. Ren'py evolution will never be enough to keep up with DPC's ambitions. But getting back to the SFW animations, I just think those are pointless in an adult visual novel if you add more than just a few.
 

DavDR

Well-Known Member
Oct 14, 2020
1,990
3,264
But that can't be the discriminating factor, because otherwise it becomes a selfish act and not an altruistic one.

if for Sage's sake it's right to reveal why Chad behaved in a certain way, then it's always right, even if she's just a friend

otherwise we tell her to gain something for ourselves, to speed up her going beyond that story.

since Chad SHOULD have told her without any ifs or buts, doing it for her is acceptable, risky because then we rely on Sage's cold blood (which is not her best quality) but acceptable
My impression of the scene was that DPC was weighing up the balance of social responsibility. If Sage was just a friend then I think that weighing that balance is something to consider, but if MC is pursuing a relationship with Sage then there is no question.

Part of the problem is as usual the writing. I think DPC does a bad job of portraying the difference in choice of actions and dialogue between MC the acquaintance, MC the friend, or MC the lover of the various LI's.
 

Casiope

Member
Nov 30, 2017
199
755
AVNs yes, but there is only so much Ren'py can do. If DPC wants more mini games, more phone apps, more filler, then I think he will have to transition to another platform. I shudder to say this because I hate it for AVNs, but...Unity. Ren'py was specifically designed for the traditional visual novels, not for AAA type games and that is the direction DPC is moving toward.
The term defines video games that required an investment of tens of millions of dollars in budget (when it's not hundreds of millions of dollars) and a number of developers that reaches three digits. Being A DIK does not achieved such a production scale and it's rather an ambitious amateur game; Dr PinkCake demonstrates a certain expertise in the staging, the dialogues and the code. The distribution of this visual novel via Steam and gog.com also reflects a move to embrace a wider audience, beyond Patreon fans. But, even if he dedicates himself full time, his skills are limited compared to professional studios.

In my opinion, the majority of adult games are mediocre, and the few that do manage to succeed are too quickly glorified. Being a DIK, while deserving its popularity, is still a small project regarding indie games, some of which are released after 5-6 years of development with 3D environment, original music, dubbed sequences, sometimes already translated. This makes me put Dr PinkCake's work into perspective even though I appreciate playing his games.
 

felicemastronzo

Devoted Member
May 17, 2020
11,112
21,729
My impression of the scene was that DPC was weighing up the balance of social responsibility. If Sage was just a friend then I think that weighing that balance is something to consider, but if MC is pursuing a relationship with Sage then there is no question.

Part of the problem is as usual the writing. I think DPC does a bad job of portraying the difference in choice of actions and dialogue between MC the acquaintance, MC the friend, or MC the lover of the various LI's.
in the case of Sage i don't really agree

even if MC is not in a relationship with her the story tells us that she is really his friend anyway, so I don't see a big difference between the two situations

the player can be indifferent to Sage but not MC, and unlike other situations this friendship is well rendered in the game, it is believable
 

Kellermann

Engaged Member
Oct 20, 2020
3,613
11,655
The term defines video games that required an investment of tens of millions of dollars in budget (when it's not hundreds of millions of dollars) and a number of developers that reaches three digits. Being A DIK does not achieved such a production scale and it's rather an ambitious amateur game; Dr PinkCake demonstrates a certain expertise in the staging, the dialogues and the code. The distribution of this visual novel via Steam and gog.com also reflects a move to embrace a wider audience, beyond Patreon fans. But, even if he dedicates himself full time, his skills are limited compared to professional studios.

In my opinion, the majority of adult games are mediocre, and the few that do manage to succeed are too quickly glorified. Being a DIK, while deserving its popularity, is still a small project regarding indie games, some of which are released after 5-6 years of development with 3D environment, original music, dubbed sequences, sometimes already translated. This makes me put Dr PinkCake's work into perspective even though I appreciate playing his games.
I'm saying that's what he aspires to and dreams of (perhaps prematurely)...he wants to break out of this meager little Ren'py visual novel box and develop his own mainstream games with all the flashiness that comes with it.
 
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DavDR

Well-Known Member
Oct 14, 2020
1,990
3,264
what the MC is doing is, first, mentally preparing Sage for an enormous bomb that he's about to drop. We all know Sage has a few anger issues and isn't the most mentally stable person on campus
OK this! Does Sage have a temper? Yes, so do many people. Does it mean that she's a dangerous sociopath? NO!

Also I'm sure the character of Sage, or anybody else for that matter, wouldn't like to be treated like a five year old. If you don't trust someone you don't love them, you're just kidding yourself.
 

dalli_x

Engaged Member
Jul 7, 2017
3,389
7,648
Whats with the MC and girls fucking him while he sleeps happy new year
I already have my ideas and theories there that I have published before. There comes another theory inspired by EP8. :unsure:

MC's last wet dream from EP2 was at his house. What if Zoey was visiting at home. She sneaks into MC's bed. Only the MC didn't cum in Zoey's ass while she was sleeping, but in her pussy. Maybe that's why Neil is so happy when Zoey visits. Neil becomes a grandfather.:rolleyes::unsure::love::eek:
 
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DavDR

Well-Known Member
Oct 14, 2020
1,990
3,264
"- Sage: It´s a failure to me. Being abandoned like that... I think that´s what´s embarrassing."

She no longer has those feelings. It´s hurt pride, not love.
It's very subjective. In my experience feelings don't just go away in a snap.

My ex-wife and I did just about everything we could to legally murder one another in court during our divorce, but when my Father passed away recently she was the first to call. Feelings for another person don't just go away, no matter how much anger and pain there is.

Like I said it's very subjective, and I can't prove it one way or the other, but I think Sage does still feel for Chad. When Sage confronted him after MC tells her about Troy, it was disappointment and resignation that she expressed. He failed to do the right thing and she clearly saw it.
 

Casiope

Member
Nov 30, 2017
199
755
I'm saying that's what he aspires to and dreams of (perhaps prematurely)...he wants to break out of this meager little Ren'py visual novel box and develop his own mainstream games with all the flashiness that comes with it.
Doki Doki Literature Club! is a game created on Ren'Py which is completely out of the box, not hesitating to break the fourth wall or delete files. I'm not a specialist of this engine, but I wanted to illustrate the fact that there is the tool and what we do with it.

I would find it brilliant for my part, that Jill's jealousy pushes her to delete all the game saves about other love interests, in the manner of the game mentioned above.
 
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DavDR

Well-Known Member
Oct 14, 2020
1,990
3,264
in the case of Sage i don't really agree

even if MC is not in a relationship with her the story tells us that she is really his friend anyway, so I don't see a big difference between the two situations

the player can be indifferent to Sage but not MC, and unlike other situations this friendship is well rendered in the game, it is believable
My point has always been that these friendships of the MC's feel tacked onto the story. Just like the thing with Maya and Josy. A flat statement that this is the MC's friend means nothing to the player if the the dev doesn't make the player feel it.

When Fallout 4 came out one of the biggest criticisms was that the story didn't make the player feel for the lost spouse and baby, and it's one of the main flaws in that game. This is also true of BaDIK.
 

kyrlian

Member
May 26, 2017
146
289
Again: why Tremolo should care about Chad instead of caring about Sage? That´s my original point
Because Tremolo has clearly more empathy than you have. Its not that easy being openly homosexual, yeah some people do it but it comes at a price. Many people will treat them badly for their sexual orientation and yes that's reality. And I'm as opposite to a SJW as you can be, so no pc bullshit on my side.

I'm not denying this 'secret' can get really bad and damaging for Sage but things are complex and societal pressure to remain closeted is very high even in today's world. The downplaying of the consequences if you tell her was the worst part for me, I have a friend who one day discovered her husband had a boyfriend and it completely destroyed her.

So, this is a very difficult choice. You may hurt Chad and Troy, and you don't know what is best for Sage. Sarah and Mel also talk about this.

And is way more hard being gay when you are one of the Alphas. This is clearly shown with Dawe calling Tremolo 'gay' just for showing a little tenderness with his father. What do you think a guy like that will say to Chad?

Cheers and Happy New Year
 
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Pendrell

Member
Apr 10, 2020
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My point has always been that these friendships of the MC's feel tacked onto the story. Just like the thing with Maya and Josy. A flat statement that this is the MC's friend means nothing to the player if the the dev doesn't make the player feel it.

When Fallout 4 came out one of the biggest criticisms was that the story didn't make the player feel for the lost spouse and baby, and it's one of the main flaws in that game. This is also true of BaDIK.
I agree that at times the Main Girl friendships feel tacked on. One of the things some people point out when distinguishing between MGs and SGs is that MGs are always friends with MC throughout the core story no matter what, whereas an SG relationship has to be "activated" by pursuing the girl in question, who will largely ignore him otherwise. This is of course technically true, it's a key part of the way the game is structured, but I don't think it helps with the realism of the MG relationships.

It leads at times to these weird incongruous moments on some playthroughs where even if you've basically ignored a girl or had very few interactions with her, the story will thrust you into a scene where you're chatting like old friends. The moment in episode 8 where MC goes to get his hair cut from Bella is a good example of this. Why would an MC who has been doing a manwhore side girl run and not pursuing Bella at all go to get his hair cut from Bella? It makes no sense at all, except that the story needs to keep her involved in the MC's life for events down the road.

For me it's a strength of the SG relationships that they respond more dynamically to a player's interest. I like the fact that most of Quinn's content is unlocked only if you're pursuing her. For a character like that it would make no sense to force her into the life of a CHICK MC, and I wouldn't want DPC to try.
 
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