VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [DrPinkCake]

[sageproduct]

She's not that bad. Among the other fems there is some hope for her. And her food is great too.

My hero

 

[Blades1138]

Blades1138
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Oh man, you convinced me 100% with that one choice.
Every DIK option ever is "confidence", I believe it.

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Yup, you got me. Give me all your insights professor.

 

[ChipLecsap]

Oh man, you convinced me 100% with that one choice.
Every DIK option ever is "confidence", I believe it.

No, No,. don't move the goal post now, just take the "L".... like a "Chick" .

 

[felicemastronzo]

Thats fair. I agree it doesn't have a point and thats why I do like it here!

Im talking from the pov that I dont think there are any working morality systems in any game ever. Plots happen anyway with or without it. Any game dev that sets out to make one to describe humanity or a persons actions, thoughts and feelings fails miserably before they even start. All moral systems are bad because people are not that very much alike at all nor thinks the same. With a couple choices or a you few you can generally get most people to agree that its internally consistent but when the choices pile up the branching possible moral viewpoints multiply exponentially and the whole thing shits the bed. Thats why moral systems suck and shouldnt exist unless handled like in BaDik imo(for now).

The "all or nothing" was more a general note on game development and not in regards to BaDik. If you go the other way and want to make morality a part of the game devs simplify it to bring people on board by making the choices so obviously slanted, slaughter all the things vs saving all the things or something like it. Which makes it a pointless system too imo. Thats what I meant about all or nothing. Theres never really room for nuance. With nuance you run into the mentioned exponential outcome problem of people getting angry or confused or unsatisfied with the choices because they dont lead to what they think is fair or reasonable. On a sidenote, if we all in here sat down and looked at every major dik/chick choice I bet we could argue and overturn every single major dik/chick choice to be the reverse of what it is, or change it to neutral at least. Its just the nature of differing human experience and perception.

Thats why I like the system (PRESENTLY) in BaDik. Its kind of a story guide (in the shape of a moral system) than an actual moral system. The MC is largely the same person regardless of what you do imo. Its more about specific choices, and the choices are not forced upon you by the system, yet. IMO nothing fucking breaks immersion like bad good/evil choices if youre forced to take one.

BaDik have yet to force a bad choice on me. And I LOVE it for that.

No other game with a moral system have ever worked and been better for it due to the system. Usually two unsatisfying paragon endings of either moralising virtue or depraved sin with sometimes a third shitty middle ground not leading to any decent ending.

affinity is fine with me as a system to increase, albeit somewhat artifactually, playability

but it remains a morality system (with all the flaws you listed) only it is completely passive, it doesn't change the personality of the protagonist but it does change the way he is regarded by others.

and it does this by the worst possible mechanism: the accumulation of points tied to fairly random choices that meet only 2 criteria (that do not directly involve an LI and that are arranged within the chapter evenly: one after the beginning part and one a little before the last part)
wanting there would also be a third criterion whereby of epr se none of the major choices is decisive in anything, at most it is the premise to something, but it is never a really important choice

if they were not flagged, most of the major choices would go completely unnoticed in the set of choices that are continuously made

 

[shazba]

Oh man, you convinced me 100% with that one choice.
Every DIK option ever is "confidence", I believe it.


Yup, you got me. Give me all your insights professor.

I don't get why ya'll arguing over this one. It's not one attitude or the other, a DIK character has multiple attitudes:

• More direct: Telling a girl she looks "hot"
• Bad attitude: Swearing all the time
• Rude: Ignores the receptionist once she's given him directions.
• Inappropriate: Looking up girls skirts
• Aggressive: Taking on the Jocks (standing up to Chad when he's manhandling Sage)
• Body Confident: Tells the DIKs he has a jock physique (I don't know how to write it without it sounding weird...), and telling Maya he's not ashamed of his body when he undresses in front of her
• Sexually Confident: Invites Mel and Sarah into the shower, involves himself with Quinn and Cammy when they are teasing him, joins the girls in the jacuzzi.
• Immature: Enjoys Derek's moronic antics

And so on.

Some of it would be considered a "jerk's" behaviour, but some of it not, therefore not one word describes the kind of person a DIK is.

 

[Blades1138]

I don't get why ya'll arguing over this one. It's not one attitude or the other, a DIK character has multiple attitudes:

• More direct: Telling a girl she looks "hot"
• Bad attitude: Swearing all the time
• Rude: Ignores the receptionist once she's given him directions.
• Inappropriate: Looking up girls skirts
• Aggressive: Taking on the Jocks (standing up to Chad when he's manhandling Sage)
• Body Confident: Tells the DIKs he has a jock physique (I don't know how to write it without it sounding weird...), and telling Maya he's not ashamed of his body when he undresses in front of her
• Sexually Confident: Invites Mel and Sarah into the shower, involves himself with Quinn and Cammy when they are teasing him, joins the girls in the jacuzzi.
• Immature: Enjoys Derek's moronic antics

And so on.

Some of it would be considered a "jerk's" behaviour, but some of it not, therefore not one word describes the kind of person a DIK is.

You're right, there's a whole spectrum, but since a lot of DIK actions are either rude, inappropriate, agressive or cocky, I conflated it into 'Jerk points' which got this "argument" started. While that may not be an accurate name, another thing's for sure - they're not 'Confidence points' by a long shot.

One thing I disagree that directness and confidence are specifically DIK traits. In general a lot of the points are more about how MC expresses himself rather than his qualities. How a menu choice is worded is hardly an indication of what's really going on. For example a certain choice could easily be changed to "Shoo the bitches away"/"Invite the girls in".
A person can be both direct and confident without acting sexually aggressive or cocky. The Major choices are what's most impactful to MC's actual character.

 

[WastedEfforts]

You're right, there's a whole spectrum, but since a lot of DIK actions are either rude, inappropriate, agressive or cocky, I conflated it into 'Jerk points' which got this "argument" started. While that may not be an accurate name, another thing's for sure - they're not 'Confidence points' by a long shot.

You won't be able to pull off half of those actions without confidence lol

One thing I disagree that directness and confidence are specifically DIK traits. In general a lot of the points are more about how MC expresses himself rather than his qualities. How a menu choice is worded is hardly an indication of what's really going on. For example a certain choice could easily be changed to "Shoo the bitches away"/"Invite the girls in".
A person can be both direct and confident without acting sexually aggressive or cocky. The Major choices are what's most impactful to MC's actual character.

Basically you have issues with male confidence and testosterone levels above average. Seems like if someone doesn't play nice, he's automatically bad or wrong. That's silly.

 

[Blades1138]

You won't be able to pull off half of those actions without confidence lol

I guess it takes a lot of confidence to secretly peek at women's asses and boobs half the time.

Basically you have issues with male confidence and testosterone levels above average. Seems like if someone doesn't play nice, he's automatically bad or wrong. That's silly.

I have issues with lack of confidence disguised through arrogance and the type of language you're using to appear more "manly" or whatever. But thank you for that deep analysis Mr. Freud.

 

[WastedEfforts]

I guess it takes a lot of confidence to secretly peek at women's asses and boobs half the time.

Dudes without confidence can't even talk to women without spilling spaghetti lol
Besides MC peek openly, not secretly.
Checking out attractive female assets is nothing to be ashamed of. It's normal, healthy behavior.
The fact that CHICK player wouldn't look at tits or ass calls to question his libido, or maybe he's straight up coward, too afraid to be caught, so he play's 'nice'.

I have issues with lack of confidence disguised through arrogance and the type of language you're using to appear more "manly" or whatever. But thank you for that deep analysis Mr. Freud.

womanspeak

 

[Blades1138]

Dudes without confidence can't even talk to women without spilling spaghetti lol
Besides MC peek openly, not secretly.
Checking out attractive female assets is nothing to be ashamed of. It's normal, healthy behavior.
The fact that CHICK player wouldn't look at tits or ass calls to question his libido, or maybe he's straight up coward, too afraid to be caught, so he play's 'nice'.


womanspeak

We have an expert psychoanalyst ladies and gentlemen. I will excuse myself as I'm obviously ill-equipped to argue with these prime examples of scientific fact.

P.S. I'd work on that tendency to put down others by claiming they have female traits, if I were you. Don't want people to think you're a closeted homosexual trying too hard, after all.

 

[ChipLecsap]

Dudes without confidence can't even talk to women without spilling spaghetti lol
Besides MC peek openly, not secretly.
Checking out attractive female assets is nothing to be ashamed of. It's normal, healthy behavior.
The fact that CHICK player wouldn't look at tits or ass calls to question his libido, or maybe he's straight up coward, too afraid to be caught, so he play's 'nice'.

Virgin Male Feminist, the biggest creeps of all.

 

[ChipLecsap]

I guess it takes a lot of confidence to secretly peek at women's asses and boobs half the time.

 

[Jimayo]

You won't be able to pull off half of those actions without confidence lol


Basically you have issues with male confidence and testosterone levels above average. Seems like if someone doesn't play nice, he's automatically bad or wrong. That's silly.

People like you and your idea that the only way to be confident and tough is to be a self absorbed jerk who'll pick a fight at the drop of hat and that's just asinine. You can be an actual nice guy(not one of those fake one's that thinks acting nice entitles them to get laid) who goes out of his way to be kind and caring and help people when you can and still be tough and confident. Your idea of what constitutes an alpha has no basis in reality(the alpha wolf does not behave at all in the manner people like you think it does, they look after the pack, not just the women but the betas and the omegas too, with the assistance of the betas, and you guys have no idea what a beta is either). You don't need to be an arrogant self absorbed prick to be tough or confident.

 

[dalli_x]

Dudes without confidence can't even talk to women without spilling spaghetti lol
Besides MC peek openly, not secretly.
Checking out attractive female assets is nothing to be ashamed of. It's normal, healthy behavior.
The fact that CHICK player wouldn't look at tits or ass calls to question his libido, or maybe he's straight up coward, too afraid to be caught, so he play's 'nice'.


womanspeak

Wow. The MC usually gets DIK points for secretly watching the girls. So according to your wording, the DIK's have no confidence because they are secretly watching. That was an own goal my good man.

Also, CHICK players can look at the girls tits and ass and not even secretly. My MC is always looking at Josy and Maya's tits and asses.

Blades1138 is partially right with what he writes. Arrogance is very sexy for many women, but only if there are values behind this arrogance. Those values are definitely not how many women a guy has fucked or how fast he can drink beer. So you're talking about a form of arrogance that has nothing to do with self-confidence.

Break down the word self-confidence. Self and confidence. This implies that a person knows themselves and can trust in themselves. The top DIK Tommy, can't even put his hand up for himself because he thinks he has his drug use under control, which is not the case when you see him sweating. Tommy doesn't thwart Caleb either. Where was his confidence then. Oh yeah, actually all the DIK's wanted to quit after the destruction of the Mansion. Where was their self-confidence so that they could get back on their feet under their own steam?

 

[WastedEfforts]

We have an expert psychoanalyst ladies and gentlemen. I will excuse myself as I'm obviously ill-equipped to argue with these prime examples of scientific fact.

P.S. I'd work on that tendency to put down others by claiming they have female traits, if I were you. Don't want people to think you're a closeted homosexual trying too hard, after all.

You don't need to be an arrogant self absorbed prick to be tough or confident.

I never claimed otherwise? lmao
Good thing DIK MC is neither of those too. He never acted up first, ridiculed, bullied or humiliated characters who didn't do the same to him or his friends first. Calling DIK MC a jerk is ridiculous.

 

[ChipLecsap]

Also, CHICK players can look at the girls tits and ass and not even secretly. My MC is always looking at Josy and Maya's tits and asses.

A proper, honest, Chick MC ( player ) not does any of those thing. so you Basically a Hypocrite .
It's always the same thing with chick players. They coming with their moral superiority complex, because they not even confident of their own actions.

 

[Blades1138]

A proper, honest, Chick MC ( player ) not does any of those thing. so you Basically a Hypocrite .
It's always the same thing with chick players. They coming with their moral superiority complex, because they not even confident of their own actions.

It's funny how you treat arbitrary points in a porn game as a measure for the real-life qualities of a person.

 

[Jimayo]

A proper, honest, Chick MC ( player ) not does any of those thing. so you Basically a Hypocrite .
It's always the same thing with chick players. They coming with their moral superiority complex, because they not even confident of their own actions.

Cause DPC is obviously the authority on the subject. Cause a nice guy certainly can't appreciate the female form and still be a nice guy or want a fake id to go to the bar. Only a dickhead would ever want to do those things.

 

[ChipLecsap]

UGh, did I hit a nerve huh?

 

[shazba]

I guess it takes a lot of confidence to secretly peek at women's asses and boobs half the time.

I have issues with lack of confidence disguised through arrogance and the type of language you're using to appear more "manly" or whatever. But thank you for that deep analysis Mr. Freud.

Dudes without confidence can't even talk to women without spilling spaghetti lol
Besides MC peek openly, not secretly.
Checking out attractive female assets is nothing to be ashamed of. It's normal, healthy behavior.
The fact that CHICK player wouldn't look at tits or ass calls to question his libido, or maybe he's straight up coward, too afraid to be caught, so he play's 'nice'.


womanspeak

The whole desire to look up a girls dress thing is something that must have skipped me by in life. I always found that to be very childish behaviour.

It’s a different thing to enjoy a girl deliberately flashing you (like a frisky girlfriend in class), but otherwise it just comes across creepy to me.

That behaviour aside, what I like about this game is the mc’s confidence when he is a DIK. Whether you consider it to be a dominant DIK trait or not, the open flirting and more that he does when he’s a DIK is a lot of fun.

Him inviting himself into the jacuzzi was great (would have been a totally different experience if the girls freaked out and screamed for him to leave, instead that was only Heather… )

Even the way he pretends to size up Sage’s g-string after he’s only met her one time before was cool.

And inviting Mel and Sarah into the shower? I don’t even know what happens if you don’t choose that option!

Actually there needs to be a proper threesome between the mc, Mel and Sarah. Healthy competition and all is great, but combining forces would definitely be a better idea!