VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [DrPinkCake]

[The Glorious LIME]

That's not the problem. We understand that Patrick was broken by life. But Patrick knows that he is treating Maya and Derek wrong. That's the problem.

In EP7 and in the present of the MC, Patrick plays the overprotective father. "Only the best for my daughter." Even Josy says about Patrick that he is an overly precautionary idiot. You can see from this that Patrick behaved towards Josy the same way Patrick did towards the MC.

When strangers like the MC or Sage are around, he plays the good father. Patrick acts intentionally towards Maya and Derek. Patrick knows what is right and what is wrong. So you don't need to start with religion or older generation, especially since Patrick was a much better person in the past.

Patrick is just using Helen's wishes to excuse himself for what he's doing to Maya and Derek. As we discovered, Patrick can distinguish between right and wrong. Patrick's real problem is that he uses Maya and Derek as an outlet for his aggression and dissatisfaction. The MC, for example, reduces his anger and aggression through martial arts and the MC is aware of this himself.

Don't take mew the wrong way, I agree with you, Patrick is not a good guy.

There are no excuses for Patrick. And I did later on add that he is broken by life. Nothing of his acts is of "true faith", it's all fanatical towards giving his wife the wishes she desires. But one part I might disagree on is him knowing what he is doing to his kids. In a way, yes. But when one is broken to the point in losing faith in everything, and clings to one thing for normality, specially if it's a promise made to a dying person, ppl can become sociopathic. He might not see his kids as his children anymore, just as tools to bring Helen the wishes she desires, completely blind to the fact that all Helen wanted was to be happy at the end of the day, and her having a ultra happy gay daughter would probably be great.

So in that regard, he does participate in willing disregard of his own children. In Maya's case, more abusive.
But I think it's not planned, just sociopathic behavior that is automatic, since it does not comply with his world view and desires for Helen. So rather than it being pre-planned abuse, I see it more as neglect and sociopathic complete disregard and empathic disconnect from his kids.

The facade he puts with guests and unknowns is all to normal with sociopaths too.

 

[felicemastronzo]

Helen was very religious, but lost her faith over time. Patrick an opposite, became very religious.
Sometimes people see it as salvation, even though it's stupid. This did not help either Patrick, Helen or their children in any way, on the contrary, it only hurt, because many of the "ideas" and problems come from Patrick's religious beliefs.
He even understands and realizes that all these prayers of his only infuriate Helen, she no longer has it in her, but Patrick continues to do it anyway.

There is very little in the game that shows this extreme religiosity of Patrick. He has a crucifix and prays before eating, a 'common' behaviour

 

[znar25]

There can't be a Jade and Sage 3some she sill her mom even if not by blood it still incest

OK....let me lay this on you.

Jade getting plowed by MC while Sage watches from the corner of the room (or through a partially open door to the room).

:::tag team::::

Sage getting plowed by MC while Jade watches from the corner of the room (or through a partially open door to the room).

 

[znar25]

She has an autoimmune disease...

View attachment 3266403



The doctor mentioned that he could use treatments which they used for arthritis... not that she had arthritis...

So basically, Helen is over-reacting and there is a chance at some point in the game, MC can put her over the nearest piece of furniture.

Get rid of that sad face.

I am hopeful!!!

 

[ScrewMe]

We are, but I can't balme soprano31 for his outburst.
and it's not like the night guy stopped pushing the buttons , he could have feel, that this topic don't do him any favor, and now he is crying in the fan-art topic, complaining how toxic this place is, becasue his views are challanged.

But ITS Only a Game

Dude, the boi from the reply you mention have literally told the guy "I hope you don't have kids". And then you're like "yeah, damn right I agree".
It's not a discussion at this point. It's not challenging the dude, it's straight up attacking him personally.
Furthermore, he did the smarter thing - "we'll never agree, so I'll just bail". Yet you started your little victory lap once the dude left the discussion. Typical "you don't agree with me so fuk u" attitude that you see in Gender classes, if you ask me)
Grow up.

 

[znar25]

You're writing about Patrick's moral values here. He is welcome to have them and to pass these values on verbally to his children. But it's still up to Maya and Derek to decide whether or not to adopt these moral values for themselves.

Let's get to the point. My dad used to give me a pat on the back of the head when I fucked up as a teenager. But Maya and Derek didn't fuck up and yet Patrick gets rough with them. Maya only fell in love with one girl (Josy). But it's not enough for Patrick to be rough. No, he also exerts psychological pressure. He threatens Maya's future if she doesn't move on from her love Josy. That is blackmail. He is massively restricting Maya's personal development. That is abuse. There is no excuse for that.

Look at Patrick's face. It's not the face of a desperate husband and father, but a face filled with hatred. Patrick is losing control of himself and if Maya doesn't get out of it, it's going to get worse and worse for Maya.
View attachment 3266471
This no longer has anything to do with morality.

Grabbing Maya's arm?

Over time, observing many posts here, several forum members wouldn't mind smacking her across the head for being stupid.

 

[Kpyna]

There is very little in the game that shows this extreme religiosity of Patrick. He has a crucifix and prays before eating, a 'common' behaviour

When it's "common" for somebody, then such person usually doesn't deserves to be mentioned as a religious one. You call someone religious when a lot of their actions, behaviours, motivations, etc are so obvious that you can't be wrong.

Seriously, only a fanatic that really believes that it helps him or his family somehow will continue to rub in the bullshit that definitely not liken anymore by his wife. Prays before taking the meal, "I'm thankful for", etc. He knows for years already that this pisses her off, that it makes her feel uncomfortable and still doing it. The reasonable or moderate religious person would be able to keep it to himself if he sees that the most dear person doesn't like it (anymore).

Same about accepting his daughter (children) sexuality. Only fanatics are against of being not "straight", mostly. All that vows stuff, etc. with which he is literally obsessed.

 

[ScrewMe]

On a lighter topic - and it was previously discussed probably: who is the old woman in the nursing home? Who's grandma/parent is she?

 

[znar25]

I did misunderstand that, you are right, she's not dead. But it's more than just arthritis...

Spoiler: Dereck explains his mother's illness

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Jesus H Christ MC...Derek is over-reacting. There is probably a way for MC to get with Helen over time. And if by some chance that fails.

:::::MC with Ouija board talking to Helen::::: "What are you wearing babe?"

 

[felicemastronzo]

When it's "common" for somebody, then such person usually doesn't deserves to be mentioned as a religious one. You call someone religious when a lot of their actions, behaviours, motivations, etc are so obvious that you can't be wrong.

Seriously, only a fanatic that really believes that it helps him or his family somehow will continue to rub in the bullshit that definitely not liken anymore by his wife. Prays before taking the meal, "I'm thankful for", etc. He knows for years already that this pisses her off, that it makes her feel uncomfortable and still doing it. The reasonable or moderate religious person would be able to keep it to himself if he sees that the most dear person doesn't like it (anymore).

Same about accepting his daughter (children) sexuality. Only fanatics are against of being not "straight", mostly. All that vows stuff, etc. with which he is literally obsessed.

I do not agree with your reconstruction. You don't have to be a religious fanatic to be homophobic or to be a bad parent. And the flashback shows us how Patrick is neither one thing nor the other. Why should he become one in the face of an illness that will take his wife away from him? It is a reason to lose faith, not to turn into one of the Spanish Inquisition. Patrick wants Maya to be the way he thinks will make Helen happier, what God thinks doesn't matter much to him

 

[dalli_x]

Don't take mew the wrong way, I agree with you, Patrick is not a good guy.

There are no excuses for Patrick. And I did later on add that he is broken by life. Nothing of his acts is of "true faith", it's all fanatical towards giving his wife the wishes she desires. But one part I might disagree on is him knowing what he is doing to his kids. In a way, yes. But when one is broken to the point in losing faith in everything, and clings to one thing for normality, specially if it's a promise made to a dying person, ppl can become sociopathic. He might not see his kids as his children anymore, just as tools to bring Helen the wishes she desires, completely blind to the fact that all Helen wanted was to be happy at the end of the day, and her having a ultra happy gay daughter would probably be great.

So in that regard, he does participate in willing disregard of his own children. In Maya's case, more abusive.
But I think it's not planned, just sociopathic behavior that is automatic, since it does not comply with his world view and desires for Helen. So rather than it being pre-planned abuse, I see it more as neglect and sociopathic complete disregard and empathic disconnect from his kids.

The facade he puts with guests and unknowns is all to normal with sociopaths too.

No. It was clearly implied twice in the game for Patrick to be on his best behavior around non-family members. Why? Because he doesn't want non-family members to see his bad side. Ergo, he can distinguish between right and wrong, good and evil. I'll put this a little more formally now.

Because Patrick knows how to distinguish between what is right and wrong, the offense of intent is fulfilled. He could no longer claim or prove in court that his actions were or were characterized by passion. In a regular court, Patrick would not even be granted mitigating circumstances because a crime of passion occurs immediately and not over a long period of time. This can be proven very easily by blackmailing Maya.

It may be sociopathic behavior on Patrick's part, but he is still able to differentiate between right and wrong.

 

[The Glorious LIME]

No. It was clearly implied twice in the game for Patrick to be on his best behavior around non-family members. Why? Because he doesn't want non-family members to see his bad side. Ergo, he can distinguish between right and wrong, good and evil. I'll put this a little more formally now.

Because Patrick knows how to distinguish between what is right and wrong, the offense of intent is fulfilled. He could no longer claim or prove in court that his actions were or were characterized by passion. In a regular court, Patrick would not even be granted mitigating circumstances because a crime of passion occurs immediately and not over a long period of time. This can be proven very easily by blackmailing Maya.

It may be sociopathic behavior on Patrick's part, but he is still able to differentiate between right and wrong.

So the question we got to ask is... Patrick path when? He needs to fixed by MC.

#ICanFixHim #MagicCock

 

[dalli_x]

So the question we got to ask is... Patrick path when? He needs to fixed by MC.

#ICanFixHim #MagicCock

In a way, the MC even does that and not by hitting Patrick. Neutral is the right choice in this decision because it is not too hard or too soft. You have to confront guys like Patrick about what they do. Why?

Guys like Patrick don't want their actions to become public. With the neutral decision, Patrick tells the MC not to judge him. Patrick understood exactly so that he has an opponent in the MC that he cannot manipulate and/or control. Patrick also came along so that Maya leans on the MC and the MC is more important to her than her father.

 

[KАRАMBA]

But it's about Arieth, that's the problem.

And this man still dares to reproach Quinn with something?
He, who wants to use cunning manipulations to expel a pregnant girl from the HOTs house, just so that a room would be free for Maya and Josy, and they had another one place to fuck.
Jesus Christ, what cynicism.

 

[Kpyna]

I do not agree with your reconstruction. You don't have to be a religious fanatic to be homophobic or to be a bad parent. And the flashback shows us how Patrick is neither one thing nor the other. Why should he become one in the face of an illness that will take his wife away from him? It is a reason to lose faith, not to turn into one of the Spanish Inquisition. Patrick wants Maya to be the way he thinks will make Helen happier, what God thinks doesn't matter much to him

He is good in a way, that he was able to raise two children and provide his family on his own, he hadn't give up. Well... a lot of man (and woman, if such thing happenes with their husbands) in his shoes most likely would abandon both sick wife and children and find something to be happy again. His bad side is exactly about religy and how it turned out for his family. DPC's idea and duality approach here is to show how one person loses her faith with time, while another one obtains it and what a sick form it takes finally.

Even the children of alcoholics and drug addicts often love their parents no matter what, although such parents hardly gave their children anything good. Patrick raised his children, have them an education and a start in life, he was not the most affectionate and exemplary dad for them, but he did not treat them badly. He was triggered precisely and exclusively by the news that his daughter was a lesbian. He treats Derek differently. You could see that. He trusts him. But he doesn't trust his daughter. Derek understands it and he's playing a double game for Maya. Using his dad's trust as a help for her.

For the most part, his whole fault and the problem is that he wants to control everything, he fanatically wants to fulfill his vows to his wife. And such fanaticism cannot be fully explained by his religiosity, but it is well fueled by it.

 

[Ekzou]

Hi all,
I set myself a stupid challenge to reach 1000 turns.
Will I succeed? game in progress...

 

[Kpyna]

I know what you mean. But since I can answer JM best, it will be about JM again.

Josy and Maya already have their unique place to hang out and fuck. The MC's room. In EP10, when the MC is with Josy, he thinks it's hot that Maya could use Josy's tongue while Maya couldn't because of her piercing. This is the only way the three-way relationship works. Tolerance. The MC gives Josy and Maya the time they need for each other. He already did it in EP8. So it works.

Well, they HAD that place, but it's out of the game until Tommy will calm down AND as far as they will tell the second part of truth about their own relationship. Otherwise the 2 girls spending time alone in MCs room looks very... specific. Ok, it would work 1 time, 2 times, but it's can't be called an appropriate place then. It worked once, when nobody known about what's happening exactly. Now they got a 10X attention.

The MC moving back into Maya's room isn't ridiculous. First, this would still make the MC a DIK. Secondly, you set priorities in life. What is more important? A room in the DIK villa or that the people you love are safe? I know how I would answer this question for myself. It doesn't matter who lives in the MC's room. Whether one or more girls live with the DIKs or vice versa can happen by converting the brotherhood or sisterhood into a mixed fraternity. Maya addressed and mentioned this herself in EP6, so it exists but is rare.

It's ridiculous. Purely. Both by the game nature and plot and the overall sense of it. The thing about living and dorm and belonging to frat/sisterhood have nothing with girls living in boys frat and vice versa. Both can stay for night, but not live. Elena doesn't live in DIKs mansion, nor JB lives in HOTs. Staying for night(s) even several days in a row is not equal to living.

Ashley finds out in EP10 that her roommate Arieth also fucked The Ant Man. Do you personally want to live with someone you know is the ex or the girl the current boyfriend cheated on? Personally, I wouldn't want that.

Arieth will leave anyway, soon or later. Ashley would be too stupid to leave the HOTs mansion only because of learning that Arieth fucked with anyone in campus. It wasn't a secret. This could only trigger her to get back with Derek.

Heather tells Elena that she needs some distance from Tommy so she can think straight again. But that probably won't happen if she lives with Tommy's sister because Josy will remind Heather of Tommy.

Step sister. She would remind her of Tommy is she would be somebody like him. It's not so.

 

[felicemastronzo]

He is good in a way, that he was able to raise two children and provide his family on his own, he hadn't give up. Well... a lot of man (and woman, if such thing happenes with their husbands) in his shoes most likely would abandon both sick wife and children and find something to be happy again. His bad side is exactly about religy and how it turned out for his family. DPC's idea and duality approach here is to show how one person loses her faith with time, while another one obtains it and what a sick form it takes finally.

Even the children of alcoholics and drug addicts often love their parents no matter what, although such parents hardly gave their children anything good. Patrick raised his children, have them an education and a start in life, he was not the most affectionate and exemplary dad for them, but he did not treat them badly. He was triggered precisely and exclusively by the news that his daughter was a lesbian. He treats Derek differently. You could see that. He trusts him. But he doesn't trust his daughter. Derek understands it and he's playing a double game for Maya. Using his dad's trust as a help for her.

For the most part, his whole fault and the problem is that he wants to control everything, he fanatically wants to fulfill his vows to his wife. And such fanaticism cannot be fully explained by his religiosity, but it is well fueled by it.

Patrick, like you, assumes that a believer like Helen wants a heterosexual daughter and would be distressed by a different sexuality and does everything to please her. I see nothing but that. If DPC had wanted to tell us that Patrick is a religious fanatic he would have shown us so

 

[noahsombrero]

Good to know. We do not agree about what is abuse and what should be done about it. Good thing we have a legal system to decide such things for us irl. I'm not sure how much of this is a reflection of the political climate in the US, but yeh, the times are contentious and many of us think our opinions carry more weight than decisions made by constituted authority. The implications are inauspicious.

Not that such authorities are perfect, but so far they are the best we have been able to create to protect us from making wrong decisions in such matters. But still, innocent people go to prison to be released decades later based on dna evidence. That does not mean that our opinions are more reliable.

 

[Sun of Rome]

Maya is very lucky that Patrick is not a Muslim and Maya doesn't wear a burqa covering her face and Derek doesn't learn Karan by heart.
Patrick is a rather strange religious fanatic, allowing Maya to wear a dress with her breasts exposed. Any fanatic would be mad to see what his daughter is wearing. And he just made a dry comment.
If DPС wanted to portray Patrick as a religious fanatic, I have bad news for him: Patrick is not a fanatic. If praying before meals makes him one, then it turns out 70% of the population of the States are religious fanatics.
He's probably lost hope that medicine can cure his wife and the only reminder of what she was like is prayer. When you lose hope in your own strength, faith takes its place. A man just hopes for a miracle.
And his attitude towards Maya is hard to explain. I suppose deep down he blames Maya and Derek for what happened to Helen. He thinks that if Maya and Derek hadn't been born, Helen would be healthy. He's a lot like Burke in that way. The children were the cause of their suffering. But if for Burke Sage and Tybalt are the cause of his emptiness and apathy, for Patrick Derek and Maya are the cause of his aggressive parenting. Patrick's problem is that it is not clear where parental care begins and tyranny with hatred begins.

I'm more than sure that DPС wanted to draw a parallel between the Burke family and the Bailey family. They're mirror families.
The difference is HOW both families suffer. The Burke family suffers in spirit, the Bailey family suffers physically through illness. The Burke family is a toxic family, but it hides its true face behind a screen of success. The Bailey family is also a toxic family, but it doesn't hide its true face.
Derek genuinely cares about Maya. He lives for her.
Tybalt thinks only of himself and generally doesn't care about Sage.
Bailey and Burke have too many similarities, but they are at different poles. I think Sage will also play a very important and big role in the future.