Casiope

Member
Nov 30, 2017
199
756
I'm saying that's what he aspires to and dreams of (perhaps prematurely)...he wants to break out of this meager little Ren'py visual novel box and develop his own mainstream games with all the flashiness that comes with it.
Doki Doki Literature Club! is a game created on Ren'Py which is completely out of the box, not hesitating to break the fourth wall or delete files. I'm not a specialist of this engine, but I wanted to illustrate the fact that there is the tool and what we do with it.

I would find it brilliant for my part, that Jill's jealousy pushes her to delete all the game saves about other love interests, in the manner of the game mentioned above.
 
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DavDR

Engaged Member
Oct 14, 2020
2,008
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in the case of Sage i don't really agree

even if MC is not in a relationship with her the story tells us that she is really his friend anyway, so I don't see a big difference between the two situations

the player can be indifferent to Sage but not MC, and unlike other situations this friendship is well rendered in the game, it is believable
My point has always been that these friendships of the MC's feel tacked onto the story. Just like the thing with Maya and Josy. A flat statement that this is the MC's friend means nothing to the player if the the dev doesn't make the player feel it.

When Fallout 4 came out one of the biggest criticisms was that the story didn't make the player feel for the lost spouse and baby, and it's one of the main flaws in that game. This is also true of BaDIK.
 

kyrlian

Member
May 26, 2017
146
290
Again: why Tremolo should care about Chad instead of caring about Sage? That´s my original point
Because Tremolo has clearly more empathy than you have. Its not that easy being openly homosexual, yeah some people do it but it comes at a price. Many people will treat them badly for their sexual orientation and yes that's reality. And I'm as opposite to a SJW as you can be, so no pc bullshit on my side.

I'm not denying this 'secret' can get really bad and damaging for Sage but things are complex and societal pressure to remain closeted is very high even in today's world. The downplaying of the consequences if you tell her was the worst part for me, I have a friend who one day discovered her husband had a boyfriend and it completely destroyed her.

So, this is a very difficult choice. You may hurt Chad and Troy, and you don't know what is best for Sage. Sarah and Mel also talk about this.

And is way more hard being gay when you are one of the Alphas. This is clearly shown with Dawe calling Tremolo 'gay' just for showing a little tenderness with his father. What do you think a guy like that will say to Chad?

Cheers and Happy New Year
 
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Pendrell

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Apr 10, 2020
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My point has always been that these friendships of the MC's feel tacked onto the story. Just like the thing with Maya and Josy. A flat statement that this is the MC's friend means nothing to the player if the the dev doesn't make the player feel it.

When Fallout 4 came out one of the biggest criticisms was that the story didn't make the player feel for the lost spouse and baby, and it's one of the main flaws in that game. This is also true of BaDIK.
I agree that at times the Main Girl friendships feel tacked on. One of the things some people point out when distinguishing between MGs and SGs is that MGs are always friends with MC throughout the core story no matter what, whereas an SG relationship has to be "activated" by pursuing the girl in question, who will largely ignore him otherwise. This is of course technically true, it's a key part of the way the game is structured, but I don't think it helps with the realism of the MG relationships.

It leads at times to these weird incongruous moments on some playthroughs where even if you've basically ignored a girl or had very few interactions with her, the story will thrust you into a scene where you're chatting like old friends. The moment in episode 8 where MC goes to get his hair cut from Bella is a good example of this. Why would an MC who has been doing a manwhore side girl run and not pursuing Bella at all go to get his hair cut from Bella? It makes no sense at all, except that the story needs to keep her involved in the MC's life for events down the road.

For me it's a strength of the SG relationships that they respond more dynamically to a player's interest. I like the fact that most of Quinn's content is unlocked only if you're pursuing her. For a character like that it would make no sense to force her into the life of a CHICK MC, and I wouldn't want DPC to try.
 

godkingxerxes

Engaged Member
Sep 27, 2020
2,148
5,940
free tuition exists, it's just that it's not free at all, it's a benefit for those who work in catering... Mona got it, so it's real. It's not a mystery.

but I don't really understand what is the relevance that Becky heard about it.
Even weirder how Becky who's not a HOT knows the secret codes but Maya who is a HOT, doesn't know them.

The theories that come up here, some ridiculous shit.
 

godkingxerxes

Engaged Member
Sep 27, 2020
2,148
5,940
You clearly haven´t read the dialogues. Tremolo doesn´t say to Sage "I´m worried about you". He says to her "I´m worried about your reaction" and "I´m worried about feeling myself like shit". Again:
"- Sage: What the fuck are you worried about?
- Tremolo: Like I said before, I´m worried about your reaction. It´s a huge thing I´m about to tell you. If you don´t react well to it, I´m gonna feel like shit for more than a reason."
"-- Tremolo: It´s clearly a secret they don´t plan to reveal. And that´s why I wasn´t sure if I should tell you or not".


I´m talking about the things that are written in the dialogues, not about interpretations. Why the fuck Tremolo would feel like shit about Chad and Troy´s secret? They are the guys that have harassed him for weeks and, worst of it, they have hurt Sage for months or even years. I don´t even think that Sage should feel bad for exposing Chad´s sexuality. He has been making her miserable, again, for months or even years. Why suddenly Chad and Troy´s secret is so important for the people that they have been harming with that secret and their behavior? My answer is: political correctness.
It's the inconsistency in the character, he numerous times insults Chad, calling him gay early on, hell he calls Jamie gay for planting, but now he's all sensitive to Chad and his panty wearing sissy boy Troy.

It's fucking soft.
 

AECaros

New Member
Sep 10, 2020
8
42
You clearly haven´t read the dialogues. Tremolo doesn´t say to Sage "I´m worried about you". He says to her "I´m worried about your reaction" and "I´m worried about feeling myself like shit". Again:
"- Sage: What the fuck are you worried about?
- Tremolo: Like I said before, I´m worried about your reaction. It´s a huge thing I´m about to tell you. If you don´t react well to it, I´m gonna feel like shit for more than a reason."
"-- Tremolo: It´s clearly a secret they don´t plan to reveal. And that´s why I wasn´t sure if I should tell you or not".


I´m talking about the things that are written in the dialogues, not about interpretations. Why the fuck Tremolo would feel like shit about Chad and Troy´s secret? They are the guys that have harassed him for weeks and, worst of it, they have hurt Sage for months or even years. I don´t even think that Sage should feel bad for exposing Chad´s sexuality. He has been making her miserable, again, for months or even years. Why suddenly Chad and Troy´s secret is so important for the people that they have been harming with that secret and their behavior? My answer is: political correctness.
Basic human empathy?

You see the same thing happen as an option after the fight with Chad. Chad jumps him on the street and starts beating the shit out of him for (from his perspective) absolutely no reason. But once things escalate and you're in a meeting with staff talking about his expulsion, you get the option to say 'Hey now, it was just a brawl, not something that needs him to be thrown off campus for'.

Tremolo clearly isn't a huge piece of shit in setting, even when played full DIK, nor is he stupid. As soon as he realized that Chad is gay, things fall pretty neatly into place. Chad is the head of a macho af fraternity, the sort of people that wouldn't remotely put up with someone being gay, which is why he is keeping the secret. Outing a closeted gay person is in fact, a fairly fucked up thing to do, even if that person is a hypocrite and a piece of crap, so Tremolo doesn't do it. Or, well, they might do it, just in limited circumstances rather than being a huge douche who immediately starts spreading a campus rumor about it.
 

ChipLecsap

Conversation Conqueror
Aug 4, 2019
6,408
23,975
Even weirder how Becky who's not a HOT knows the secret codes but Maya who is a HOT, doesn't know them.

The theories that come up here, some ridiculous shit.
You know very well there is nothing weird about it. Becky is Sarah friend, she obviously gossiped to her. Becky is a slut, but she is a Stupid Slut, unlike Sara or Mel, they at least earn money by being a slut.

so there isn't anything weird. Even Sage is a gossip bitch. I mean she tell the girls, who you think has the best ass. :ROFLMAO:
 

felicemastronzo

Devoted Member
May 17, 2020
11,551
22,429
You know very well there is nothing weird about it. Becky is Sarah friend, she obviously gossiped to her. Becky is a slut, but she is a Stupid Slut, unlike Sara or Mel, they at least earn money by being a slut.

so there isn't anything weird. Even Sage is a gossip bitch. I mean she tell the girls, who you think has the best ass. :ROFLMAO:
after Mona it seems very difficult for Sara to talk about the restaurant with the dumbest girl in the BR (except Arieth)

then this deep friendship between Becky and Sara would result from what? the fact that Sara attended her party? Sara doesn't strike me as someone who has all these deep friendships....
 

Olsens.M

Active Member
Apr 23, 2021
595
1,271
You know very well there is nothing weird about it. Becky is Sarah friend, she obviously gossiped to her. Becky is a slut, but she is a Stupid Slut, unlike Sara or Mel, they at least earn money by being a slut.

so there isn't anything weird. Even Sage is a gossip bitch. I mean she tell the girls, who you think has the best ass. :ROFLMAO:
You guys calling Becky slut because she has sex with whoever she wants, comparing with Sarah who has sex for money. Sarah will have sex with anyone either if she wants to have sex with them or not as long as they pay. Becky is just a girl who wants to have fun as much as our MC. Arieth is another girl who just want to have fun as well.

But we call girls sluts if they do what men do. If a man sleeps with many women, it is "having fun", "enjoying being single", harem. If a girl sleeps with a lot of guys, they are sluts, whores, etc.

Lets take this day 01 of a new year, to learn how to treat women better and learn that they can have as much sex around as men. So all men are stupid too, because they have sex with a lot of girls and earn 0 money.
 

kyrlian

Member
May 26, 2017
146
290
Because Tremolo is politically corrected, then. Chad is an asshole that has made Sages´s life miserable (Tremolo´s lover/friend) and assaulted and harassed Tremolo. But, poor him, he´s homosexual, so everybody must have empathy with him and find reasons why he´s such an asshole. Including his victims... And that´s the socially acceptable way of thinking... :FacePalm: If not, you don´t have "empathy". Because the guy, is gay, and apparently, being gay in a college of USA in 2020 is like being black in Alabama in 1950, or something... :ROFLMAO: That´s the conventional depiction of homosexuality in modern pop culture. A cliché. It doesn´t mean that is the correct or fair approach about homosexuality. If a character (or a person, in real life) is an asshole, being gay is not a defense or a mitigating factor. Many people is treated badly for lots of personal circumstances, not only sexual orientation. And it doesn't gives charte blanche for being assholes.

I have empathy with the victims of Chad's selfishness and violent temper. Not with an asshole, gay or not, that humiliate his partners, make their life´s miserable and assault people because, poor him, doesn´t want that his subhuman mates make fun of him or something... In a college in USA in 2021... And that´s not shellfish at all, or a cliché...:FacePalm:

And, unlike you, I´m not going to make personal considerations about your character or your lack or abundance of empathy. Although probably is going to be my post the one deleted, and not yours, with a personal attack.
Well, it's not an attack. You clearly don't care about what happens to him and don't even consider what YOUR actions will do to him, you even find preposterous for DPC to consider that.

We all know when you reveal a secret it may affect the other person in a bad way. That's why it's a secret man, I know it and you know it too, you just pretend being gay is all rainbows and joy and everybody accept them as they are like in a bad pc Netflix show.

Well it's not, it's difficult, people judge them, sometimes beat them, some family may think they are 'wrong'. And that is in top of the other things that can happen to anyone, so yes in general life is more difficult to them. That's why some are closeted, it's not like they want to be, just decide that is their best option at a certain moment.

Now, about empathy. The greatness of DPC's characters is that they are well developed. With a mix of good and bad traits, like any human being (well, maybe except Jill who is more Disney than Disney), some are doing bad things like Quinn, Steve, Troy or Chad but you know, they are victims too. Survivors in a way, of who they are. You are offered how you want to treat them.

Showing empathy for the almost pure, naive character who is being badly treated so it's all a black and white choice like in bad movies where good people are 100% good, caring, family loving, adopted 150 cats... and bad people are terrible murderers and rapists... That's fucking easy, any idiot can do that.

The hardest part is to show empathy for people that won't bring you personal gain, people who have wronged you, maybe even beaten you. Why? Well that's what empathy is, understanding the other. Maybe they did that for a reason, maybe they were wrong or maybe you were being an asshole, maybe any other thing you may want to consider.

This is where many people fail (because we people are selfish and prejudiced) so you downplay the FACT that being gay causes them a lot of trouble, and that you shouldn't care for them, so you only care about the redhead you want to fuck. C'mon man, they are people too.

As a Quinn fan, I have to say this thing happens a lot with her too, you see some champions of morality bashing her like she is not a person, well what can I say, not one of them would survive a single day in that drug den...

Cheers
 

AchedCroissant

Conversation Conqueror
May 29, 2020
6,100
27,951
You know very well there is nothing weird about it. Becky is Sarah friend, she obviously gossiped to her. Becky is a slut, but she is a Stupid Slut, unlike Sara or Mel, they at least earn money by being a slut.

so there isn't anything weird. Even Sage is a gossip bitch. I mean she tell the girls, who you think has the best ass. :ROFLMAO:
Stop calling girls slut, They are not sluts
 
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