VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [DrPinkCake]

[Heycock]

We should make a drink game with the words "bad writing" and "Maya is naive".

About Maya: If you think that Maya is stupid... well, you simple are not reading the story right.
I just wacthed the tv show "Sucession". I strongly recomended. It's about a family of really rich busnisemans. The father and head of family fool his son to sign some papers to screw him, in a similar way that Patrick did with Maya.
Yet this guy, the son, is not presented as an idiot, it's presented as a grown up man who has been preparing all his life to run a multimillionaire company and that actually did it for some time.
Noone complains. Noone claim his stupid.

With Maya is the same. The only difference is his mistake is way more understandable and that you have a really vocal group of people dissecting whatever shit she does since the Maya and Josy thing from ep4.

Maya is presented as a sweet girl, excelent student, who has a problem she can't solve. It's a trigger for a plot. If she could solve the problem there would not be a plot. The rest came for over-analysing or hate.

 

[fool1200]

Maya's problem is that Maya doesn't want to solve her problems, but wants someone to do it for her. As I said, this is her character trait. She's so used to it that her father decides everything for her and doesn't even risk finding a job on her own, lol. And those who can help her do not understand anything about it. МС repaired the mansion and fucked chicks throughout season 2 (I would do the same in his place), and Josie seems to also care about her problems and parties in HOTs.

Ironically, only Sage is really interested in solving her problems, whereas her closest people, such as Derek, MC and Josie literally don't care about her.
I do not know if it was done on purpose or by accident, but it suggests certain thoughts.

Actually Derek, MC and Josie not caring very much does not surprise me - I think's it's fairly realistic that a bunch of college freshmen wants to enjoy the parties, not really understanding the gravity of the situation that Maya is in.

My point is really just that they, to varying extents, have spent time with Maya trying to deal with the problem. And even if they don't really care, they still need to pretend to care during that amount of time, and throwing out an idea of "go talk to school/bank" would be the easiest idea to come up.

 

[TimHawk]

Thanks for putting in the time to write all this up. I am from the US, but now I see where my issue is - the "student loan" concept is so ingrained in my head, that I did not consider for one second that the loan Maya is currently under is not a student loan. (I really don't think any sane person would get a non-student loan for college, but Maya's dad is not really sane, so that does make sense.)

What you said makes sense for a non-student loan, but there are some nuances. First, the loan would not be made to Maya. I mean, seriously, no bank agent will just give an 18 year old 100-120k - they still want the money back, after all. Personal loan in that amount would only be made to some with good credit rating, with collateral to boot. (Student loan is made to the student because bankruptcy discharge of student loan is very hard.)

So the realistic scenario is that the current loan is made to the dad, with him pledging his house/business as collateral, and Maya is just a co-signer. It will hurt the dad a lot more if the loan is not paid back.

In light of the above, there's no real reason why Maya can't take a student loan (unless she is not ready to deal with a real student loan's consequences, which is a legit concern).

------

Separate from the game scenario, look at what we have accomplished - the few of us, none being financial experts (I assume) just spending our spare time talking about things, already figured out a lot. Just think what could be accomplished if Maya talks to an advisor at the school financial office, who deals with this kind of issues routinely. My beef is really just no one even surfaced this idea.

Yes, her dad co-signed the loan, without her dad taking on reliability, there is no way in hell she wouldve ever gotten that loan. And considering that he had to do the same for Derek, that's a serious amount of dough, so yeah I too believe he had to put some serious colleteral up for it.

And I very much agree, that it was incredibly naive from Maya to not go the normal student loan route, I guess she thought with Derek getting the same treatment, that thats how its supposed to work. But maybe both of them underestimated just how much of an control freak their dad is, and now she has to pay the price. If nothing else, it should be a 1st class life lesson tho, never trust anyone when money is involved and always do your own research.

 

[sixart]

I know you didn't bother (I should have make it into three separate posts lest it's confusing) man, imagining the same topic goes on and on till next update I wouldn't mind if theory crafting talents start writing fan fictions, like the tragic story of Isabella Roberts, the forever step sibling love and feud between Josy and Tommy, or Arieth's HOT scavenger hunt...

Till NEXT UPDATE ??? Quite the optimistic... Dalli what do you say in this matter ?!

 

[Ilhares]

View attachment 1741424


View attachment 1741425

It's nice to not be the only one in the Old Man club, it just freaks me out a little bit to see somebody else with UofM references. OFT, are you a local?

I had some of my best weekends hanging out with the girls in their on-campus dorms. I wasn't as dick-blinded as MC, but hooboy, I enjoyed being as carefree.

 

[fool1200]

We should make a drink game with the words "bad writing" and "Maya is naive".

About Maya: If you think that Maya is stupid... well, you simple are not reading the story right.
I just wacthed the tv show "Sucession". I strongly recomended. It's about a family of really rich busnisemans. The father and head of family fool his son to sign some papers to screw him, in a similar way that Patrick did with Maya.
Yet this guy, the son, is not presented as an idiot, it's presented as a grown up man who has been preparing all his life to run a multimillionaire company and that actually did it for some time.
Noone complains. Noone claim his stupid.

With Maya is the same. The only difference is his mistake is way more understandable and that you have a really vocal group of people dissecting whatever shit she does since the Maya and Josy thing from ep4.

Maya is presented as a sweet girl, excelent student, who has a problem she can't solve. It's a trigger for a plot. If she could solve the problem there would not be a plot. The rest came for over-analysing or hate.

I actually consider Maya's POV quite realistic. For a 18 yo who kinda grew up in a sheltered life, her reaction/confusion to the situation she's in is fairly genuine. My issue lies squarely with DPC keeps dragging the plot through this muddy confusion land, when the situation can be much cleaner with just a bit more explanation as to what is really going on.

 

[vogelbeest]

Never sign a contract a used car salesman presents to you.... It's that easy...
It's signed, you're screwed... you just bought a car wreck at an extremely overrated amount at disastrous interest rates.
Maya's student loan is just that, except she didn't buy a car wreck.... she bought an education on her father's terms...

And forget that other loan.... you're registered now. gum anybody?

 

[Heycock]

I actually consider Maya's POV quite realistic. For a 18 yo who kinda grew up in a sheltered life, her reaction/confusion to the situation she's in is fairly genuine. My issue lies squarely with DPC keeps dragging the plot through this muddy confusion land, when the situation can be much cleaner with just a bit more explanation as to what is really going on.

I know, i read your post. Some people just are going to take the oportunity to smash Maya couse they hate her and some others will throw her under the bus to defend the story.

My thoughts about your argument is that you are over-analizing it. There are a number of plotholes in the story, (why Quinn didn't told the diks they were going to party with the preps in ep5, why Sage never realize that Chad was gay, why Bella being a teacher after Cathy incident fucked the MC in the diks mansion pretty muhc in front of all diks, etc). If you use the same chriteria liek this guys all of them are retarded. Yet they are just plotholes.
But i don't think that's bad writing. Pretty much every popular story nowadays have them. But the quality of the story don't rely on thoose things. It's the hability of the writer to read people fantasies and use them in their story, the quality of the prose, the timing in combining dramatic with comic moments, the build of a fictional complex world and things like that.

 

[Riggnarock]

Yes, her dad co-signed the loan, without her dad taking on reliability, there is no way in hell she wouldve ever gotten that loan. And considering that he had to do the same for Derek, that's a serious amount of dough, so yeah I too believe he had to put some serious colleteral up for it.

And I very much agree, that it was incredibly naive from Maya to not go the normal student loan route, I guess she thought with Derek getting the same treatment, that thats how its supposed to work. But maybe both of them underestimated just how much of an control freak their dad is, and now she has to pay the price. If nothing else, it should be a 1st class life lesson tho, never trust anyone when money is involved and always do your own research.

I Myself am quite the helper, so as soon as i got enough money i would walk up to her dad, and tell him that i can pay off her colege life, and if he ever wants to be a part of her life he should make aments to her and beg for forgiveness, then we'll see how much of a controll freak he can be

 

[fool1200]

Yes, her dad co-signed the loan, without her dad taking on reliability, there is no way in hell she wouldve ever gotten that loan. And considering that he had to do the same for Derek, that's a serious amount of dough, so yeah I too believe he had to put some serious colleteral up for it.

And I very much agree, that it was incredibly naive from Maya to not go the normal student loan route, I guess she thought with Derek getting the same treatment, that thats how its supposed to work. But maybe both of them underestimated just how much of an control freak their dad is, and now she has to pay the price. If nothing else, it should be a 1st class life lesson tho, never trust anyone when money is involved and always do your own research.

I mean, her not going with normal student loan does have the benefit of she doesn't need to personally pay the money back to the bank. The best case scenario for her would be to enjoy her life, spend all her money and don't save, don't pay the loan back when the principal is due, declare bankruptcy, and make her dad pay the loan. Her credit rating will plummet, but that's fixable (to some extent) and still better than being hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt.

 

[TimHawk]

There are a number of plotholes in the story, (why Quinn didn't told the diks they were going to party with the preps in ep5, why Sage never realize that Chad was gay, why Bella being a teacher after Cathy incident fucked the MC in the diks mansion pretty muhc in front of all diks, etc).

Quinn explained it, there was nothing she could do about it anyway, and she knew Tommy would go ballistic, so she avoided it altogether.

Sage not realising that Chad is gay, well it happend to countless married couples, so thats really not a stretch.

Why Bella decided to sleep over at the dik mansion sucking the MC off ? Yea I got nothing on that one.

 

[fool1200]

I know, i read your post. Some people just are going to take the oportunity to smash Maya couse they hate her and some others will throw her under the bus to defend the story.

My thoughts about your argument is that you are over-analizing it. There are a number of plotholes in the story, (why Quinn didn't told the diks they were going to party with the preps in ep5, why Sage never realize that Chad was gay, why Bella being a teacher after Cathy incident fucked the MC in the diks mansion pretty muhc in front of all diks, etc). If you use the same chriteria liek this guys all of them are retarded. Yet they are just plotholes.
But i don't think that's bad writing. Pretty much every popular story nowadays have them. But the quality of the story don't rely on thoose things. It's the hability of the writer to read people fantasies and use them in their story, the quality of the prose, the timing in combining dramatic with comic moments, the build of a fictional complex world and things like that.

In the end, it's a matter of suspension of disbelief. Sure most works have plot holes, but it's different if you keep the holes front and center so people notice easily, or you shove it in the background so people don't pay too much attention.

For example, Bella sleeping with MC in DIK house, that could be a plot hole, but at the end of the day it's just a one-shot, quick scene that's not brought up again, so people don't pay attention/care too much.

If you keep your plot hole as one of the main conflicts of the plot, of course people will notice.

 

[Kronicza7x]

How do you post a video here?

 

[Heycock]

Quinn explained it, there was nothing she could do about it anyway, and she knew Tommy would go ballistic, so she avoided it altogether.

Sage not realising that Chad is gay, well it happend to countless married couples, so thats really not a stretch.

Why Bella decided to sleep over at the dik mansion sucking the MC off ? Yea I got nothing on that one.

But man, you are just taking Quinn explanation as it has sense. It doesn't. If they are going to cancel a meeting with you it's better if they tell you first and not if they on top of that they let you hanging. Tommy wouldn't like it, but still better. (Also to party with preps was Quinn idea, is not that she could do nothing to stop it, is that she make the whole thing happens)
Maya also gives an explanation to why she signed the co-loan, it actually has more sense than Quinn's explanation but you are not taking into account.

And about Sage, yeah a lot of people dont realize... but a lot of people are victims of fraud of it's own family... The question is why Maya is naive and stupid and Sage is not...

 

[TimHawk]

Also to party with preps was Quinn idea, is not that she could do nothing to stop it, is that she make the whole thing happens)

I didnt realise that, I thought as prep president Tybalt asked his sister (sage) if her sorority wants to earn some money amd help him out. Now that I find really werid, with the family ties in place, why would he ask Quinn and not his sister ?

 

[Heycock]

In the end, it's a matter of suspension of disbelief. Sure most works have plot holes, but it's different if you keep the holes front and center so people notice easily, or you shove it in the background so people don't pay too much attention.

For example, Bella sleeping with MC in DIK house, that could be a plot hole, but at the end of the day it's just a one-shot, quick scene that's not brought up again, so people don't pay attention/care too much.

If you keep your plot hole as one of the main conflicts of the plot, of course people will notice.

Ok, but it doesn't work like that. Some stories has their plotholes as a central part of the story, they are praised anyway. My usual example is The merchant of Venice of Shakespeare.

Also, even if i give you Bella Quinn and Sage plotholes are not in the back, they are quite clear as a central part of their plots. Again the difference is that neither of them have a group of active haters and the issue isn't bring her over and over.

 

[fool1200]

But man, you are just taking Quinn explanation as it has sense. It doesn't. If they are going to cancel a meeting with you it's better if they tell you first and not if they on top of that they let you hanging. Tommy wouldn't like it, but still better. (Also to party with preps was Quinn idea, is not that she could do nothing to stop it, is that she make the whole thing happens)
Maya also gives an explanation to why she signed the co-loan, it actually has more sense than Quinn's explanation but you are not taking into account.

And about Sage, yeah a lot of people dont realize... but a lot of people are victims of fraud of it's own family... The question is why Maya is naive and stupid and Sage is not...

If we really want to analyze it, the entire prep/hot party doesn't quite make sense. What does Tybalt hope to accomplish by letting his sister show up at a high-class party with a stripperific outfit and providing accommodations like a servant (instead of dressing properly and participating as a guest)? Any sane person will realize that would damage his family's image in front of upper-class guests. But this is Tybalt, so we chalk it up to stupidity and laugh and don't care.

 

[Heycock]

I didnt realise that, I thought as prep president Tybalt asked his sister (sage) if her sorority wants to earn some money amd help him out. Now that I find really werid, with the family ties in place, why would he ask Quinn and not his sister ?

The thing goes like this. It was Quinn idea, she was in a financial struggle with her business, so she decided to went over the preps (if i am not wrong that's shown at start ep4 in a conversation with riona in front of B&R door). The talkwith the preps is not shown, but later on Quinn talk with Sage, Sage is not happy with it but finally accept it and ask Quinn to tell the diks (that's shown in the car wash).

 

[fool1200]

Ok, but it doesn't work like that. Some stories has their plotholes as a central part of the story, they are praised anyway. My usual example is The merchant of Venice of Shakespeare.

Also, even if i give you Bella Quinn and Sage plotholes are not in the back, they are quite clear as a central part of their plots. Again the difference is that neither of them have a group of active haters and the issue isn't bring her over and over.

Interesting. what do you see as the central plot hole of merchant of Venice?

 

[Heycock]

If we really want to analyze it, the entire prep/hot party doesn't quite make sense. What does Tybalt hope to accomplish by letting his sister show up at a high-class party with a stripperific outfit and providing accommodations like a servant (instead of dressing properly and participating as a guest)? Any sane person will realize that would damage his family's image in front of upper-class guests. But this is Tybalt, so we chalk it up to stupidity and laugh and don't care.

Yeah, i thought the same. It's kind ridicoulous to see everyone in suits and half the HOT's half naked. However at the end of the day is just an excuse to have the oportunity to make a fuckfest with sexy girls in a prude enviroment. It's a sexual fetish.
Thats another thing, when it comes to porn... porn has it's own logic, where story doesnt meant to be realistic but hot. If the story is realistic but it's not hot, what's the point?
Like with comedy working with ridicoulous situations, they are not meant to be realistic just funny, and if you have to sacrifice realism to get to thoose scenes, so be it.