VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [DrPinkCake]

[ename144]

I respect your position. Many feel the same way. However the interlude had the complete opposite effect on me. Before the interlude, I never wanted to see Zoey ever again. After playing it, she has become the primary LI for my MC [subject to change again - I can be fickle ].

People will always disagree on LIs. It is inevitable. I say, so what!

I respect your position as well, but I'm curious as to what you expected from Zoey before the Interlude. My feelings on Zoey didn't change after seeing her backstory, save perhaps for feeling her relationship with the MC was less serious than I had thought.

of course I don't know ... but I don't think it's "just that," Zoey is still the same, what will change as usual is how she will be perceived, what consequences her actions will have

it is a very particular passage and one that in Zoey's story has a big importance, depending on what she does she will or will not still have friends in San Diego

from what little we've seen it would seem that one of the reasons MC gave up on her was because of Emma's post, which he more or less believed by convincing himself that Zoey was moving on with her new life in San Diego, so I think that point will be one of the clarifications that will take place between the two, from that to a direct or indirect involvement of Emma I see very little struggle there

p.s. DPC is very lazy, if he creates a character he reuses it, he has done it almost every time (including Rusty's new girlfriend just to give an example)

I *think* the importance of choosing how Zoey dealt with Emma will manifest in Zoey, not in how it affected the San Diego crew directly. It will inform how she handles the MC moving on from her in Season 3, should that come to pass. A Zoey who talked Emma down will try to win the MC over by telling him how she feels and being there for him, whereas a vengeful Zoey will try to undermine her competition and seduce the MC.

That's my guess, anyway. Adding Zoey's friends to the mix on a repeated basis seems like a complete waste of time and narrative focus to me. Then again, I've disliked nearly everything DPC has done since the crossroads so I may be completely off-base. We'll see.

Eventually.

I like the flexibility to develop my MC's personality and watch how it affects the availability of relationships, how those relationships play out, and the differences in the interactions themselves. DPC's implementation of it might not always make sense, but I think it fits more times than not.

However, when it comes to the personalities of my MC's sexual counterparts, I'm glad they are set in stone by the author. If I had the power to turn the love interests into whatever I wanted, there's a good possibility they would all end up with very similar personalities based on my real-life preferences, and that would be boring.

So, having the power to mold Zoey's character didn't sit well with me, even if it's only in the slightest way, and I'm hoping that my influence will have little impact on her for the rest of the story and DPC gives us no further opportunities to change it.

I very much agree. One of the things I noticed about the dual-protagonist setup in Our Red String is how much less effective the romance is when you influence both sides of the relationship.

Better to make Zoey her own character and allow us to react to her as we will, but DPC insists on keeping his thumb on the scale - by forcing us to put our own thumb on it.

Most of it could have been shortened to a lengthy flashback and dialogue but I guess DPC seems to always want to out do himself.

I'd argue Zoey's story would have been stronger for being shortened to a flashback. It would have conveyed the relevant information in a fraction of the time, and left us getting any additional information by interacting directly with the 'real' Zoey. That would have been far less damaging to the narrative flow AND maximized the chance of getting the player invested in Zoey's story through simple curiosity and interactivity.

Force-feeding us Zoey's backstory is the opposite of investment in my book.

And He chose the less Damaging way. He gave us a game to play A DLC , while we wait for the Main Game. We would have to wait for the Main game no matter what . We would just start with a long flashback, that completely separated from the actual timeline. And would damage the overall experience of episode 9.

The reason why it would not work in Zoey case the " usual Flashback Way " because, We dont know her. Its not the same as Jill, Bella , Josy & Maya, Quinn, or the Born of Diks. We don't have connection to Zoey , us the players.

This way, he gave us the connection to Zoey , Build her character, so in the actual Main Story there will be no time to Waste on this. But as the Player we will have the knowledge and everything we need to know, as just like if she was part of the game like the rest of the cast from the get go.

Resolving this with just 20 render, and and a conversation that Say, - I went to learn surfing I meet couple of people, , it not worked out for me, I missed your big Dick, so I'm back - Which BTW , Ironically , the Summary of Interlude.

Well gee, maybe if DPC hadn't wasted all that time rendering sex scenes for D&G characters or @#$%@# Madame Rose then he could have introduced us to Zoey properly. That way we wouldn't have needed to overinflate her flashback to make up for DPC's lack of groundwork.

I get that DPC wanted to emphasize the surprise of Zoey's return, but I don't think this is going to work the way he wants it to.

 

[ChipLecsap]

Well gee, maybe if DPC hadn't wasted all that time rendering sex scenes for D&G characters

I get that DPC wanted to emphasize the surprise of Zoey's return, but I don't think this is going to work the way he wants it to.

I beg to differ






as for whether it's worked or not as he intended, - I mean Zoey - It's hard to judge just based on this place , would you agree?

 

[ename144]

I beg to differ
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as for whether it's worked or not as he intended, - I mean Zoey - It's hard to judge just based on this place , would you agree?

Beg all you want, your request is denied!

 

[SomboSteel]

I beg to differ
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as for whether it's worked or not as he intended, - I mean Zoey - It's hard to judge just based on this place , would you agree?

the problem is that even if you do like the DnG sex scenes, they are the literal definition of filler content. compare DnG to the upcoming Halloween party and its obvious. even though there will be copious amounts of sex at this party and the girls and MC will be in costume, since its in real life within the story there is a chance for character growth and relationship growth and a real possibility of moving the plot forward in many cases.

DnG ultimately is an overly long daydream by the MC that amounts to nothing (but he still cant fuck Jill lol) yet took DPC a significant amount of time to produce. now if DPC had a team working around the clock to help him out with these little side projects than maybe its not so bad, but the way it stands now is that DnG took time away from the meat of the game while adding nothing significant in return. all the time DPC allocates adds up. who knows how much farther along we could be in the actual narrative or in regards to having like actual dates with the girls or whatever to feel like MC is doing relationship stuff if DPC didnt waste time on a small jerk off section.

its arguable that the time spent on the Interlude could be seen in the same vein as well.

 

[ChipLecsap]

Beg all you want, your request is denied!
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The funny thing is some of this DnG line is so fourth wall breaking, It's subtle but it's there.

Jill, line for example : may be we should have made different choices....
Magnar have comments here and there.

No I won't agree, on on Madame Yeah, But I always thought She is some kind of Karma for those who chose the VIP ticket.
But, nah, DnG was legit fun. Everyone else is just Bitching for the sake of Bitching. Its not even Nitpicking, its legit Bitching.

 

[ChipLecsap]

the problem is that even if you do like the DnG sex scenes, they are the literal definition of filler content. compare DnG to the upcoming Halloween party and its obvious. even though there will be copious amounts of sex at this party and the girls and MC will be in costume, since its in real life within the story there is a chance for character growth and relationship growth and a real possibility of moving the plot forward in many cases.

DnG ultimately is an overly long daydream by the MC that amounts to nothing (but he still cant fuck Jill lol) yet took DPC a significant amount of time to produce. now if DPC had a team working around the clock to help him out with these little side projects than maybe its not so bad, but the way it stands now is that DnG took time away from the meat of the game while adding nothing significant in return. all the time DPC allocates adds up. who knows how much farther along we could be in the actual narrative or in regards to having like actual dates with the girls or whatever to feel like MC is doing relationship stuff if DPC didnt waste time on a small jerk off section.

its arguable that the time spent on the Interlude could be seen in the same vein as well.

None saying it's not Filler that's not MY point. It was Good content. Some of the best episode of Supernatural, Smallville, Walking Dead, Battlestar Galactica, etc, The Mandatory Beach episodes in Animes were Fillers. .

Madame, is not Good Content. But if it Was Envy , none would Bitch about it . Just like nobody bitching about Nora. More Good Milf to Fuck YEAH!!!.

 

[Walter Victor]

I respect your position as well, but I'm curious as to what you expected from Zoey before the Interlude. My feelings on Zoey didn't change after seeing her backstory, save perhaps for feeling her relationship with the MC was less serious than I had thought.

Before I knew that there was an Interlude coming, I expected nothing from Zoey. I only thought she was something to show a sympathetic side when the MC was speaking with others, particularly Bella.

I feared her actual return, which I thought was inevitable.

I'd argue Zoey's story would have been stronger for being shortened to a flashback. It would have conveyed the relevant information in a fraction of the time, and left us getting any additional information by interacting directly with the 'real' Zoey. That would have been far less damaging to the narrative flow AND maximized the chance of getting the player invested in Zoey's story through simple curiosity and interactivity.

Force-feeding us Zoey's backstory is the opposite of investment in my book.

Doing that would have done little to change my initial impression of Zoey. I needed to see what had actually happened to change my views. So, in my case at least, DPC's time was well invested.

And here's the kicker - for me: I thought the Interlude was a lot of fun to play! However, I am strange in that I am not automatically turned off by games with female or even multiple protagonists.

 

[SomboSteel]

None saying it's not Filler that's not MY point. It was Good content. Some of the best episode of Supernatural, Smallville, Walking Dead, Battlestar Galactica, etc, The Mandatory Beach episodes in Animes were Fillers. .

Madame, is not Good Content. But if it Was Envy , none would Bitch about it . Just like nobody bitching about Nora. More Good Milf to Fuck YEAH!!!.

sure there are some good filler episodes in those tv shows, but their format doesnt really compare to the adult VN genre and the way DPC does things.

this is definitely where different perspectives come into play. i dont doubt that Envy in the VIP room would be more popular than the Madame, but if its just shallow sex scenes with no driving action then i think im on the side of it ultimately being a waste of DPC's valuable dev time. with how the release schedule works and the fact that its a one man project that will have taken YEARS to complete from start to finish, im more of the mindset that basically any filler content isnt worth it anymore. lets get into this narrative and see it through, there are plenty of girls and sex scenes along the way so there isnt a need to pad it even more.

IMO, the best "filler" content this game had was Swyper. it was short and sweet little conversations/pics, we'd get teased with some lewd pictures or get the comedic profiles for laughs, and they made the world seem bigger than just B&R. but most importantly it likely took next to no time for DPC to create and was almost just a straight up bonus for us players on a couple levels.

when you compare BaDIK to AL, you can especially see how bloated this seems in comparison. AL had next to no filler at all, it was a very succinct story that DPC wanted to tell. its arguable that was one of its most redeeming qualities and why people liked it so much, there arent many games on this site at least that simply have a story to tell for its own sake (unlike all the Milfy City type stories that seem to go on forever adding more content just because they can). as others have mentioned previously, it sometimes feels like he always needs to one up himself and BaDIK kinda feels like proof of that to me when compared to AL.

 

[lipe2410]

Madame, is not Good Content. But if it Was Envy , none would Bitch about it

Nothing shows more DPC's "bad writing" than Madame be the VIP Scort in a Club that have Nicole. Pure nonsense

 

[ename144]

Before I knew that there was an Interlude coming, I expected nothing from Zoey. I only thought she was something to show a sympathetic side when the MC was speaking with others, particularly Bella.

I feared her actual return, which I thought was inevitable.

Doing that would have done little to change my initial impression of Zoey. I needed to see what had actually happened to change my views. So, in my case at least, DPC's time was well invested.

And here's the kicker - for me: I thought the Interlude was a lot of fun to play! However, I am strange in that I am not automatically turned off by games with female or even multiple protagonists.

I like female protagonists, at least in theory. If the Interlude had been it's own game, I probably would have liked it based purely on the fact that it had a female protagonist game without a corruption theme! But it's not its own game, and that distinction made it a lot harder to get into.

On the one hand Zoey was a stranger so it was up to me to decide why she did anything, but on the other hand she clearly had a pre-existing temperament that seemed to negate my early choices (apologizing to her mom for taking a beer only to swipe the beer back immediately after, for example). Combine that with how the much better defined MC overshadowed her early scenes and the fact I didn't expect to control her for very long and it took quite a while to see Zoey as a proper protagonist. When I was finally starting to get into the groove, Emma suddenly goes batshit crazy and the next thing we know it's over - without Zoey actually reaching a proper epiphany!

To me the whole thing just felt like a waste of time. I already knew Zoey's apparent rejection of the MC would be a misunderstanding and she'd be painted in a sympathetic light because that's the same well DPC always goes to. But going the extra mile and revealing she never had a new boyfriend at all just highlighted that Zoey ended the Interlude as the exact same person she started it as: affably aimless. If we're going to have to wait for Season 3 for her to finally come to terms with her feelings for the MC (not just hide behind running out of money and missing her home), we might as well have jettisoned the Interlude and hastened her actual arc.

DPC has a good eye for characters and I liked the cast, but in the end I just didn't find anything in this story that justified interrupting the far more interesting story DPC was in the process of telling. I wish DPC had left this idea for another game to develop more effectively. Your mileage clearly varied.

 

[shazba]

I think that's more like a personality "Setting " for Zoey, and nothing more. You can skip the whole Interlude after you played once for future. But you have to decide, about Zoey "personality"

A, She is more calmer, the "Bigger person"
B, She is more of a Vengeful "Bitch"

And this determine what kind of Person will be in future

...I like the flexibility to develop my MC's personality and watch how it affects the availability of relationships, how those relationships play out, and the differences in the interactions themselves. DPC's implementation of it might not always make sense, but I think it fits more times than not.

However, when it comes to the personalities of my MC's sexual counterparts, I'm glad they are set in stone by the author. If I had the power to turn the love interests into whatever I wanted, there's a good possibility they would all end up with very similar personalities based on my real-life preferences, and that would be boring.

So, having the power to mold Zoey's character didn't sit well with me, even if it's only in the slightest way, and I'm hoping that my influence will have little impact on her for the rest of the story and DPC gives us no further opportunities to change it.

I very much agree. One of the things I noticed about the dual-protagonist setup in Our Red String is how much less effective the romance is when you influence both sides of the relationship.

Better to make Zoey her own character and allow us to react to her as we will, but DPC insists on keeping his thumb on the scale - by forcing us to put our own thumb on it.

Typically we mould our mc as we get to know the other characters, and in doing so we may compromise our intentions for our mc if we take a liking to a certain character or other (e.g. making DIK choices to get with Quinn, or toning the mc down to stay with M&J). This has worked throughout the game until the mc achieved a permanent affinity.

However, when it comes to Zoey, the mc's character is already set in concrete. At this point he's either a DIK or a Chick, and to bring a new character in after this solidification of the mc's personality, certain players may be already locked out of deep involvement in a character that they were not expecting in the first place, but may end up being an integral character in the plot.

Hence the ability to shape Zoey's edges (be they rough or be they smooth). But it's still a gamble. I agree that omnipotently changing a character dulls the relationship. This is in strong contrast to the mc's own influence changing someone, like the enjoyable evolution of Quinn.

So yeah, DPC bringing in what could possibly be an important character (she could just be doing a cameo for one episode for all we know, but they why spend so much time on her introduction) is a bit unorthodox, and being able to shape her as we see fit is also a strange decision, but hopefully it just gives us 4 times the fun!

I'd argue Zoey's story would have been stronger for being shortened to a flashback. It would have conveyed the relevant information in a fraction of the time, and left us getting any additional information by interacting directly with the 'real' Zoey. That would have been far less damaging to the narrative flow AND maximized the chance of getting the player invested in Zoey's story through simple curiosity and interactivity.

Force-feeding us Zoey's backstory is the opposite of investment in my book.

I kinda agree. I don't know that DPC did himself any favours by going all-in on Zoey's back story. A few people changed their tune about her, but she simply wasn't awesome enough to seriously rock the boat.

She's very human, and has many faults, which a lot of people enjoy about the characters in this game, but as a late starter, she either needed to endure something tragic, or achieve something momentous, to universally entrench endearment among the players; that didn't happen. The closest thing to that was her guitar playing (both tragic and momentous at the same time).

I enjoyed the Interlude, but I only played it seriously once, so compared to the rest of BaDIK, I'd have to say it was a fail. I think it's just too long to say what it needed to say.

Well gee, maybe if DPC hadn't wasted all that time rendering sex scenes for D&G characters or @#$%@# Madame Rose then he could have introduced us to Zoey properly. That way we wouldn't have needed to overinflate her flashback to make up for DPC's lack of groundwork.

I get that DPC wanted to emphasize the surprise of Zoey's return, but I don't think this is going to work the way he wants it to.

I think there are more fans of DnG than you realise.

Personally, I truly hope there will be at least one or two more campaigns before BaDIK is done and dusted. But I get the gripe against it; all the sex scenes are meaningless, they don't progress the mc's relationships in any way at all. But they were still a bit of fun.

 

[memegamerfun]

Its funny, I'd never encountered the madam because every playthrough I'd given up on the VIP pass to help my bros build the house back up quicker. So I did another playthrough and took it, and it was a real let down. Didn't really see much benefit to having the VIP pass. At least if I give it up, my bro Rusty doesn't have to sell his car and gets that chick at the end flashback.

 

[ename144]

Typically we mould our mc as we get to know the other characters, and in doing so we may compromise our intentions for our mc if we take a liking to a certain character or other (e.g. making DIK choices to get with Quinn, or toning the mc down to stay with M&J). This has worked throughout the game until the mc achieved a permanent affinity.

However, when it comes to Zoey, the mc's character is already set in concrete. At this point he's either a DIK or a Chick, and to bring a new character in after this solidification of the mc's personality, certain players may be already locked out of deep involvement in a character that they were not expecting in the first place, but may end up being an integral character in the plot.

Hence the ability to shape Zoey's edges (be they rough or be they smooth). But it's still a gamble. I agree that omnipotently changing a character dulls the relationship. This is in strong contrast to the mc's own influence changing someone, like the enjoyable evolution of Quinn.

So yeah, DPC bringing in what could possibly be an important character (she could just be doing a cameo for one episode for all we know, but they why spend so much time on her introduction) is a bit unorthodox, and being able to shape her as we see fit is also a strange decision, but hopefully it just gives us 4 times the fun!


I kinda agree. I don't know that DPC did himself any favours by going all-in on Zoey's back story. A few people changed their tune about her, but she simply wasn't awesome enough to seriously rock the boat.

She's very human, and has many faults, which a lot of people enjoy about the characters in this game, but as a late starter, she either needed to endure something tragic, or achieve something momentous, to universally entrench endearment among the players; that didn't happen. The closest thing to that was her guitar playing (both tragic and momentous at the same time).

I enjoyed the Interlude, but I only played it seriously once, so compared to the rest of BaDIK, I'd have to say it was a fail. I think it's just too long to say what it needed to say.

You know, the more I think about the Interlude the more it reminds me of Acting Lessons in one very specific way: it's a well-polished tale where we meet fun characters and make choices that turn out to be irrelevant because the actual decisions are set in stone by outside forces. On the plus side, no one died in a fire. But on the negative side, the Interlude doesn't even get around to showing the big choices because Zoey still hasn't committed to a new path when it ends. She's still just going where the waves take her, so what was the point?

I think there are more fans of DnG than you realise.

Personally, I truly hope there will be at least one or two more campaigns before BaDIK is done and dusted. But I get the gripe against it; all the sex scenes are meaningless, they don't progress the mc's relationships in any way at all. But they were still a bit of fun.

Believe it or not I'm a D&G fan. I liked playing through the adventure. But those sex scenes added nothing beyond padding. As King SomboSteel said, the MC couldn't even fantasize about fucking Jill.

 

[BorgiaBou]

The fuk happened with her legs?!?!

 

[den_tiger]

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The fuk happened with her legs?!?!

The magic of CG

 

[Ilhares]

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The fuk happened with her legs?!?!

She and Josy attended the same gymnastics academy.

 

[ChipLecsap]

sure there are some good filler episodes in those tv shows, but their format doesnt really compare to the adult VN genre and the way DPC does things.

this is definitely where different perspectives come into play. i dont doubt that Envy in the VIP room would be more popular than the Madame, but if its just shallow sex scenes with no driving action then i think im on the side of it ultimately being a waste of DPC's valuable dev time. with how the release schedule works and the fact that its a one man project that will have taken YEARS to complete from start to finish, im more of the mindset that basically any filler content isnt worth it anymore. lets get into this narrative and see it through, there are plenty of girls and sex scenes along the way so there isnt a need to pad it even more.

IMO, the best "filler" content this game had was Swyper. it was short and sweet little conversations/pics, we'd get teased with some lewd pictures or get the comedic profiles for laughs, and they made the world seem bigger than just B&R. but most importantly it likely took next to no time for DPC to create and was almost just a straight up bonus for us players on a couple levels.

when you compare BaDIK to AL, you can especially see how bloated this seems in comparison. AL had next to no filler at all, it was a very succinct story that DPC wanted to tell. its arguable that was one of its most redeeming qualities and why people liked it so much, there arent many games on this site at least that simply have a story to tell for its own sake (unlike all the Milfy City type stories that seem to go on forever adding more content just because they can). as others have mentioned previously, it sometimes feels like he always needs to one up himself and BaDIK kinda feels like proof of that to me when compared to AL.

Well, I don't compare it to Acting Lessons. . They only common thing is that they are both Renpy.
if you look at NTL Games, all of their 3 games is basically the same, surely with different story. But the same type of Milf, Harem, mini games, etc.
AL and Badik are vastly different. However I do admit I stopped caring about AL after a couple of chapter, the burden of playing it after Badik. It was just weak, in my opinion not even worth it to compare.

I went for a long Fucking long Rant , but I deleted it because in the end of the day, you right about one thing. We all have different Perspective. . what you might feel as a Waste of Time, others might find it fun, and vice versa.

I could say that , I don't care about Bella, Jade, Sandy, Envy, Mel, Sara, the list is long , and Every time When DPC work of a render or animation of them, I could consider it as a Waste of precious development Time . But would it be true ? or fair ? Probably not, in fact It would make me look really stupid

All I can say, Me Personally, stopped caring about seeing the Ending of the Game, I dont wait the next episode because it's one episode closer to solve the mystery, to the end. I probably won't even live long enough to see.
All is matter, if every new episode give me enough Fun or not ? and so Far it is always more Fun then its not. So a couple of Filler not really bother me. even if its Fucking Madam. Who know, may be She is indeed Tommy mother ?!

I think it will be noticeable, When or If, He hit a wall, and just try to stall the time because He doesn't know how to finish. But I don't think we are there Yet.
We will know, because the game will become, repetitive , boring , unoriginal and most of all Un-Fun

Well, after all, I just ended up with some Fucking ranting

 

[felicemastronzo]

I *think* the importance of choosing how Zoey dealt with Emma will manifest in Zoey, not in how it affected the San Diego crew directly. It will inform how she handles the MC moving on from her in Season 3, should that come to pass. A Zoey who talked Emma down will try to win the MC over by telling him how she feels and being there for him, whereas a vengeful Zoey will try to undermine her competition and seduce the MC.

That's my guess, anyway. Adding Zoey's friends to the mix on a repeated basis seems like a complete waste of time and narrative focus to me. Then again, I've disliked nearly everything DPC has done since the crossroads so I may be completely off-base. We'll see.

Eventually.

the two are quite related, aren't they? Whether Zoey acted like Attila, spreading salt on the ground and not growing anything anymore, or whether she went back to MC while still theoretically being able to stay in San Diego

I kind of see it as a major choice, shaping the character but having (almost always) its own narrative importance

 

[felicemastronzo]

None saying it's not Filler that's not MY point. It was Good content. Some of the best episode of Supernatural, Smallville, Walking Dead, Battlestar Galactica, etc, The Mandatory Beach episodes in Animes were Fillers. .

Madame, is not Good Content. But if it Was Envy , none would Bitch about it . Just like nobody bitching about Nora. More Good Milf to Fuck YEAH!!!.

well, for a filler to not even be enjoyable is the worst that can happen to it

Nicole then for the least is included in the story, as limited as any secondary girl, and Nora probably will be too, Madame is merely a bottomless pit into which to throw the money needlessly earned by boring minigames....

 

[ChipLecsap]

well, for a filler to not even be enjoyable is the worst that can happen to it

Nicole then for the least is included in the story, as limited as any secondary girl, and Nora probably will be too, Madame is merely a bottomless pit into which to throw the money needlessly earned by boring minigames....

I challenge you for a boring mini game " One on One"