I respect your position as well, but I'm curious as to what you expected from Zoey before the Interlude. My feelings on Zoey didn't change after seeing her backstory, save perhaps for feeling her relationship with the MC was less serious than I had thought.
Before I knew that there was an Interlude coming, I expected nothing from Zoey. I only thought she was something to show a sympathetic side when the MC was speaking with others, particularly Bella.
I feared her actual return, which I thought was inevitable.
I'd argue Zoey's story would have been stronger for being shortened to a flashback. It would have conveyed the relevant information in a fraction of the time, and left us getting any additional information by interacting directly with the 'real' Zoey. That would have been far less damaging to the narrative flow AND maximized the chance of getting the player invested in Zoey's story through simple curiosity and interactivity.
Force-feeding us Zoey's backstory is the opposite of investment in my book.
Doing that would have done little to change my initial impression of Zoey. I needed to see what had actually happened to change my views. So, in my case at least, DPC's time was well invested.
And here's the kicker - for me: I thought the Interlude was a lot of fun to play! However, I am strange in that I am not automatically turned off by games with female or even multiple protagonists.
None saying it's not Filler that's not MY point. It was Good content. Some of the best episode of Supernatural, Smallville, Walking Dead, Battlestar Galactica, etc, The Mandatory Beach episodes in Animes were Fillers. .
Madame, is not Good Content. But if it Was Envy , none would Bitch about it . Just like nobody bitching about Nora. More Good Milf to Fuck YEAH!!!.
sure there are some good filler episodes in those tv shows, but their format doesnt really compare to the adult VN genre and the way DPC does things.
this is definitely where different perspectives come into play. i dont doubt that Envy in the VIP room would be more popular than the Madame, but if its just shallow sex scenes with no driving action then i think im on the side of it ultimately being a waste of DPC's valuable dev time. with how the release schedule works and the fact that its a one man project that will have taken YEARS to complete from start to finish, im more of the mindset that basically any filler content isnt worth it anymore. lets get into this narrative and see it through, there are plenty of girls and sex scenes along the way so there isnt a need to pad it even more.
IMO, the best "filler" content this game had was Swyper. it was short and sweet little conversations/pics, we'd get teased with some lewd pictures or get the comedic profiles for laughs, and they made the world seem bigger than just B&R. but most importantly it likely took next to no time for DPC to create and was almost just a straight up bonus for us players on a couple levels.
when you compare BaDIK to AL, you can especially see how bloated this seems in comparison. AL had next to no filler at all, it was a very succinct story that DPC wanted to tell. its arguable that was one of its most redeeming qualities and why people liked it so much, there arent many games on this site at least that simply have a story to tell for its own sake (unlike all the Milfy City type stories that seem to go on forever adding more content just because they can). as others have mentioned previously, it sometimes feels like he always needs to one up himself and BaDIK kinda feels like proof of that to me when compared to AL.
Before I knew that there was an Interlude coming, I expected nothing from Zoey. I only thought she was something to show a sympathetic side when the MC was speaking with others, particularly Bella.
I feared her actual return, which I thought was inevitable.
Doing that would have done little to change my initial impression of Zoey. I needed to see what had actually happened to change my views. So, in my case at least, DPC's time was well invested.
And here's the kicker - for me: I thought the Interlude was a lot of fun to play! However, I am strange in that I am not automatically turned off by games with female or even multiple protagonists.
I like female protagonists, at least in theory. If the Interlude had been it's own game, I probably would have liked it based purely on the fact that it had a female protagonist game without a corruption theme! But it's not its own game, and that distinction made it a lot harder to get into.
On the one hand Zoey was a stranger so it was up to me to decide why she did anything, but on the other hand she clearly had a pre-existing temperament that seemed to negate my early choices (apologizing to her mom for taking a beer only to swipe the beer back immediately after, for example). Combine that with how the much better defined MC overshadowed her early scenes and the fact I didn't expect to control her for very long and it took quite a while to see Zoey as a proper protagonist. When I was finally starting to get into the groove, Emma suddenly goes batshit crazy and the next thing we know it's over - without Zoey actually reaching a proper epiphany!
To me the whole thing just felt like a waste of time. I already knew Zoey's apparent rejection of the MC would be a misunderstanding and she'd be painted in a sympathetic light because that's the same well DPC always goes to. But going the extra mile and revealing she never had a new boyfriend at all just highlighted that Zoey ended the Interlude as the exact same person she started it as: affably aimless. If we're going to have to wait for Season 3 for her to finally come to terms with her feelings for the MC (not just hide behind running out of money and missing her home), we might as well have jettisoned the Interlude and hastened her actual arc.
DPC has a good eye for characters and I liked the cast, but in the end I just didn't find anything in this story that justified interrupting the far more interesting story DPC was in the process of telling. I wish DPC had left this idea for another game to develop more effectively. Your mileage clearly varied.
I think that's more like a personality "Setting " for Zoey, and nothing more. You can skip the whole Interlude after you played once for future. But you have to decide, about Zoey "personality"
A, She is more calmer, the "Bigger person"
B, She is more of a Vengeful "Bitch"
And this determine what kind of Person will be in future
...I like the flexibility to develop my MC's personality and watch how it affects the availability of relationships, how those relationships play out, and the differences in the interactions themselves. DPC's implementation of it might not always make sense, but I think it fits more times than not.
However, when it comes to the personalities of my MC's sexual counterparts, I'm glad they are set in stone by the author. If I had the power to turn the love interests into whatever I wanted, there's a good possibility they would all end up with very similar personalities based on my real-life preferences, and that would be boring.
So, having the power to mold Zoey's character didn't sit well with me, even if it's only in the slightest way, and I'm hoping that my influence will have little impact on her for the rest of the story and DPC gives us no further opportunities to change it.
I very much agree. One of the things I noticed about the dual-protagonist setup in Our Red String is how much less effective the romance is when you influence both sides of the relationship.
Better to make Zoey her own character and allow us to react to her as we will, but DPC insists on keeping his thumb on the scale - by forcing us to put our own thumb on it.
Typically we mould our mc as we get to know the other characters, and in doing so we may compromise our intentions for our mc if we take a liking to a certain character or other (e.g. making DIK choices to get with Quinn, or toning the mc down to stay with M&J). This has worked throughout the game until the mc achieved a permanent affinity.
However, when it comes to Zoey, the mc's character is already set in concrete. At this point he's either a DIK or a Chick, and to bring a new character in after this solidification of the mc's personality, certain players may be already locked out of deep involvement in a character that they were not expecting in the first place, but may end up being an integral character in the plot.
Hence the ability to shape Zoey's edges (be they rough or be they smooth). But it's still a gamble. I agree that omnipotently changing a character dulls the relationship. This is in strong contrast to the mc's own influence changing someone, like the enjoyable evolution of Quinn.
So yeah, DPC bringing in what could possibly be an important character (she could just be doing a cameo for one episode for all we know, but they why spend so much time on her introduction) is a bit unorthodox, and being able to shape her as we see fit is also a strange decision, but hopefully it just gives us 4 times the fun!
I'd argue Zoey's story would have been stronger for being shortened to a flashback. It would have conveyed the relevant information in a fraction of the time, and left us getting any additional information by interacting directly with the 'real' Zoey. That would have been far less damaging to the narrative flow AND maximized the chance of getting the player invested in Zoey's story through simple curiosity and interactivity.
Force-feeding us Zoey's backstory is the opposite of investment in my book.
I kinda agree. I don't know that DPC did himself any favours by going all-in on Zoey's back story. A few people changed their tune about her, but she simply wasn't awesome enough to seriously rock the boat.
She's very human, and has many faults, which a lot of people enjoy about the characters in this game, but as a late starter, she either needed to endure something tragic, or achieve something momentous, to universally entrench endearment among the players; that didn't happen. The closest thing to that was her guitar playing (both tragic and momentous at the same time).
I enjoyed the Interlude, but I only played it seriously once, so compared to the rest of BaDIK, I'd have to say it was a fail. I think it's just too long to say what it needed to say.
Well gee, maybe if DPC hadn't wasted all that time rendering sex scenes for D&G characters or @#$%@# Madame Rose then he could have introduced us to Zoey properly. That way we wouldn't have needed to overinflate her flashback to make up for DPC's lack of groundwork.
I get that DPC wanted to emphasize the surprise of Zoey's return, but I don't think this is going to work the way he wants it to.
I think there are more fans of DnG than you realise.
Personally, I truly hope there will be at least one or two more campaigns before BaDIK is done and dusted. But I get the gripe against it; all the sex scenes are meaningless, they don't progress the mc's relationships in any way at all. But they were still a bit of fun.
Its funny, I'd never encountered the madam because every playthrough I'd given up on the VIP pass to help my bros build the house back up quicker. So I did another playthrough and took it, and it was a real let down. Didn't really see much benefit to having the VIP pass. At least if I give it up, my bro Rusty doesn't have to sell his car and gets that chick at the end flashback.
Typically we mould our mc as we get to know the other characters, and in doing so we may compromise our intentions for our mc if we take a liking to a certain character or other (e.g. making DIK choices to get with Quinn, or toning the mc down to stay with M&J). This has worked throughout the game until the mc achieved a permanent affinity.
However, when it comes to Zoey, the mc's character is already set in concrete. At this point he's either a DIK or a Chick, and to bring a new character in after this solidification of the mc's personality, certain players may be already locked out of deep involvement in a character that they were not expecting in the first place, but may end up being an integral character in the plot.
Hence the ability to shape Zoey's edges (be they rough or be they smooth). But it's still a gamble. I agree that omnipotently changing a character dulls the relationship. This is in strong contrast to the mc's own influence changing someone, like the enjoyable evolution of Quinn.
So yeah, DPC bringing in what could possibly be an important character (she could just be doing a cameo for one episode for all we know, but they why spend so much time on her introduction) is a bit unorthodox, and being able to shape her as we see fit is also a strange decision, but hopefully it just gives us 4 times the fun!
I kinda agree. I don't know that DPC did himself any favours by going all-in on Zoey's back story. A few people changed their tune about her, but she simply wasn't awesome enough to seriously rock the boat.
She's very human, and has many faults, which a lot of people enjoy about the characters in this game, but as a late starter, she either needed to endure something tragic, or achieve something momentous, to universally entrench endearment among the players; that didn't happen. The closest thing to that was her guitar playing (both tragic and momentous at the same time).
I enjoyed the Interlude, but I only played it seriously once, so compared to the rest of BaDIK, I'd have to say it was a fail. I think it's just too long to say what it needed to say.
You know, the more I think about the Interlude the more it reminds me of Acting Lessons in one very specific way: it's a well-polished tale where we meet fun characters and make choices that turn out to be irrelevant because the actual decisions are set in stone by outside forces. On the plus side, no one died in a fire. But on the negative side, the Interlude doesn't even get around to showing the big choices because Zoey still hasn't committed to a new path when it ends. She's still just going where the waves take her, so what was the point?
I think there are more fans of DnG than you realise.
Personally, I truly hope there will be at least one or two more campaigns before BaDIK is done and dusted. But I get the gripe against it; all the sex scenes are meaningless, they don't progress the mc's relationships in any way at all. But they were still a bit of fun.
Believe it or not I'm a D&G fan. I liked playing through the adventure. But those sex scenes added nothing beyond padding. As King SomboSteel said, the MC couldn't even fantasize about fucking Jill.
sure there are some good filler episodes in those tv shows, but their format doesnt really compare to the adult VN genre and the way DPC does things.
this is definitely where different perspectives come into play. i dont doubt that Envy in the VIP room would be more popular than the Madame, but if its just shallow sex scenes with no driving action then i think im on the side of it ultimately being a waste of DPC's valuable dev time. with how the release schedule works and the fact that its a one man project that will have taken YEARS to complete from start to finish, im more of the mindset that basically any filler content isnt worth it anymore. lets get into this narrative and see it through, there are plenty of girls and sex scenes along the way so there isnt a need to pad it even more.
IMO, the best "filler" content this game had was Swyper. it was short and sweet little conversations/pics, we'd get teased with some lewd pictures or get the comedic profiles for laughs, and they made the world seem bigger than just B&R. but most importantly it likely took next to no time for DPC to create and was almost just a straight up bonus for us players on a couple levels.
when you compare BaDIK to AL, you can especially see how bloated this seems in comparison. AL had next to no filler at all, it was a very succinct story that DPC wanted to tell. its arguable that was one of its most redeeming qualities and why people liked it so much, there arent many games on this site at least that simply have a story to tell for its own sake (unlike all the Milfy City type stories that seem to go on forever adding more content just because they can). as others have mentioned previously, it sometimes feels like he always needs to one up himself and BaDIK kinda feels like proof of that to me when compared to AL.
Well, I don't compare it to Acting Lessons. . They only common thing is that they are both Renpy.
if you look at NTL Games, all of their 3 games is basically the same, surely with different story. But the same type of Milf, Harem, mini games, etc.
AL and Badik are vastly different. However I do admit I stopped caring about AL after a couple of chapter, the burden of playing it after Badik. It was just weak, in my opinion not even worth it to compare.
I went for a long Fucking long Rant , but I deleted it because in the end of the day, you right about one thing. We all have different Perspective. . what you might feel as a Waste of Time, others might find it fun, and vice versa.
I could say that , I don't care about Bella, Jade, Sandy, Envy, Mel, Sara, the list is long , and Every time When DPC work of a render or animation of them, I could consider it as a Waste of precious development Time . But would it be true ? or fair ? Probably not, in fact It would make me look really stupid
All I can say, Me Personally, stopped caring about seeing the Ending of the Game, I dont wait the next episode because it's one episode closer to solve the mystery, to the end. I probably won't even live long enough to see.
All is matter, if every new episode give me enough Fun or not ? and so Far it is always more Fun then its not. So a couple of Filler not really bother me. even if its Fucking Madam. Who know, may be She is indeed Tommy mother ?!
I think it will be noticeable, When or If, He hit a wall, and just try to stall the time because He doesn't know how to finish. But I don't think we are there Yet.
We will know, because the game will become, repetitive , boring , unoriginal and most of all Un-Fun
Well, after all, I just ended up with some Fucking ranting
I *think* the importance of choosing how Zoey dealt with Emma will manifest in Zoey, not in how it affected the San Diego crew directly. It will inform how she handles the MC moving on from her in Season 3, should that come to pass. A Zoey who talked Emma down will try to win the MC over by telling him how she feels and being there for him, whereas a vengeful Zoey will try to undermine her competition and seduce the MC.
That's my guess, anyway. Adding Zoey's friends to the mix on a repeated basis seems like a complete waste of time and narrative focus to me. Then again, I've disliked nearly everything DPC has done since the crossroads so I may be completely off-base. We'll see.
the two are quite related, aren't they? Whether Zoey acted like Attila, spreading salt on the ground and not growing anything anymore, or whether she went back to MC while still theoretically being able to stay in San Diego
I kind of see it as a major choice, shaping the character but having (almost always) its own narrative importance
None saying it's not Filler that's not MY point. It was Good content. Some of the best episode of Supernatural, Smallville, Walking Dead, Battlestar Galactica, etc, The Mandatory Beach episodes in Animes were Fillers. .
Madame, is not Good Content. But if it Was Envy , none would Bitch about it . Just like nobody bitching about Nora. More Good Milf to Fuck YEAH!!!.
well, for a filler to not even be enjoyable is the worst that can happen to it
Nicole then for the least is included in the story, as limited as any secondary girl, and Nora probably will be too, Madame is merely a bottomless pit into which to throw the money needlessly earned by boring minigames....
well, for a filler to not even be enjoyable is the worst that can happen to it
Nicole then for the least is included in the story, as limited as any secondary girl, and Nora probably will be too, Madame is merely a bottomless pit into which to throw the money needlessly earned by boring minigames....
It's not about reconciliation either. Maya and Quinn will never be friends. It's about making sure the HOT girls have seen so Quinn isn't untouchable. So that her hard shell can be broken.
I meant that women dont respect other women that start fighting women, they pick a side which is their friend (regardless if right or wrong) and support them. Its not a resolution, its a resounding failure. It would start with a fractured HOT sorority, and on top pf that you cant have a leader that failed at solving things through feelings, discussion, compromise and then agreement. How do you pick a leader out of someone that start fighting? If Maya becomes a leader its horrible writing. The HOTs would need years of new management goals and new members that align with Mayas feminist beliefs beyond the obvious things she have not yet worked through and holding her back like her family situation, economic situation and love situation.
sure there are some good filler episodes in those tv shows, but their format doesnt really compare to the adult VN genre and the way DPC does things.
this is definitely where different perspectives come into play. i dont doubt that Envy in the VIP room would be more popular than the Madame, but if its just shallow sex scenes with no driving action then i think im on the side of it ultimately being a waste of DPC's valuable dev time. with how the release schedule works and the fact that its a one man project that will have taken YEARS to complete from start to finish, im more of the mindset that basically any filler content isnt worth it anymore. lets get into this narrative and see it through, there are plenty of girls and sex scenes along the way so there isnt a need to pad it even more.
IMO, the best "filler" content this game had was Swyper. it was short and sweet little conversations/pics, we'd get teased with some lewd pictures or get the comedic profiles for laughs, and they made the world seem bigger than just B&R. but most importantly it likely took next to no time for DPC to create and was almost just a straight up bonus for us players on a couple levels.
when you compare BaDIK to AL, you can especially see how bloated this seems in comparison. AL had next to no filler at all, it was a very succinct story that DPC wanted to tell. its arguable that was one of its most redeeming qualities and why people liked it so much, there arent many games on this site at least that simply have a story to tell for its own sake (unlike all the Milfy City type stories that seem to go on forever adding more content just because they can). as others have mentioned previously, it sometimes feels like he always needs to one up himself and BaDIK kinda feels like proof of that to me when compared to AL.
I almost feel the opposite about filler content in a game like this.
BaDIK isn't really going anywhere in particular. We have a bunch of random plot lines that are more of an interest than a driving factor, as it's the characters that carry the game.
This is like any good sit-com style tv show, where you tune in each week because you enjoy the characters and the hijinks they get up to. There's just a little bit more fucking in BaDIK.
In those kinds of shows, you're not champing at the bit to get to the end, it's all about the ride. I think BaDIK is more like that.
At this point, I don't even need an end to the game. I've loved the ride so far, and I hope to enjoy the few more years left in the game, but I don't really care what happens, it's more that I like how it happens.
And as far as filler content goes, where's the distinction between the mc going to a party (pretty much any party that's occurred so far, and the much awaited Halloween party) or the mc playing a game of DnG, or paying for a blowjob from the Madame?
The way I see it, all of the events in the game are filler. I don't even know what the main story is. If he's gonna end up with just one girl, then all of the other girls are fillers.
And while the sex scenes in DnG aren't "real", the fact that Sally is grossed out by the mc all the way through the campaigns is so much fun.
And even if this didn't happen for real in the game, it's fun thinking the mc is imagining it:
Also, I reckon even the Madame would be fine if she just had a personality. That scene, where Jade sits with the mc after class and opens her heart to him regarding her own troubles, made her so much more of an interesting character.
So yeah, I don't mind any content in the game, as long as it's enjoyable, I don't need the story to progress, because what are we progressing to anyway?
Thought it's not a concern for now, I hope that Being a DIK will have a memorable ending. Many movies, series or books that had everything to become iconic have completely botched their endings; yet this is the one thing we remember the most when we think back on them.
I consider easier to start a story than to conclude it when players have high and diverse expectations; there will always be disappointments, but the point is not to leave a taste of unfinished business.
I almost feel the opposite about filler content in a game like this.
BaDIK isn't really going anywhere in particular. We have a bunch of random plot lines that are more of an interest than a driving factor, as it's the characters that carry the game.
This is like any good sit-com style tv show, where you tune in each week because you enjoy the characters and the hijinks they get up to. There's just a little bit more fucking in BaDIK.
In those kinds of shows, you're not champing at the bit to get to the end, it's all about the ride. I think BaDIK is more like that.
At this point, I don't even need an end to the game. I've loved the ride so far, and I hope to enjoy the few more years left in the game, but I don't really care what happens, it's more that I like how it happens.
And as far as filler content goes, where's the distinction between the mc going to a party (pretty much any party that's occurred so far, and the much awaited Halloween party) or the mc playing a game of DnG, or paying for a blowjob from the Madame?
The way I see it, all of the events in the game are filler. I don't even know what the main story is. If he's gonna end up with just one girl, then all of the other girls are fillers.
And while the sex scenes in DnG aren't "real", the fact that Sally is grossed out by the mc all the way through the campaigns is so much fun.
And even if this didn't happen for real in the game, it's fun thinking the mc is imagining it:
Also, I reckon even the Madame would be fine if she just had a personality. That scene, where Jade sits with the mc after class and opens her heart to him regarding her own troubles, made her so much more of an interesting character.
So yeah, I don't mind any content in the game, as long as it's enjoyable, I don't need the story to progress, because what are we progressing to anyway?
you compared this to a weekly tv show, but if we got very frequent and very consistent updates with this game then I wouldn’t mind meandering around the narrative and exploring the world some more. I’m glad if you can just “enjoy the ride” but lots of other people don’t like waiting forever only to discover yet again next to no narrative progression has been made. All of us were drawn to this game because of the characters and the overall story, but if nothing ever happens then it just amounts to masturbatory nonsense. And there are already tons of games that accomplish that on this site. This game and DPC clearly has more to offer and i think it will feel like a waste if it just becomes a slide show of sex scenes after years of development.
I’m not in a rush to finish the story, but the time between updates is already so atrocious that I don’t get all warm and fuzzy inside thinking of how old I will be when this is finished (and we have already been on this train for years as it is). I’m interested in the story and the characters NOW, and idk what my life will be like in x amount of years that will allow me to still care or be invested by then. Maybe that sounds selfish but I’m trying to be realistic. How many things genuinely hold your interest for years and years?
if DPC has a story to tell with BaDIK (like he did with AL) then I’d like to see it before I’m an old man with grandkids, cause by then it might not matter to me anymore and that would be sad. Just my two cents
if DPC has a story to tell with BaDIK (like he did with AL) then I’d like to see it before I’m an old man with grandkids, cause by then it might not matter to me anymore and that would be sad. Just my two cents
so You not planning to pass them the torch? Teaching them the way of the Force. Educating them for the proper Culture? .
Star Wars, Star Trek, Batman, Lara Croft , other geek stuff, Animes. They did last this long because people not grow out of them.
A thing like this, in order to lose your interest most have to be completely ruined . like Chuck. I still have the same idiotic grin face over a good Ecchi anime, like when I was younger. and I'm technicly no longer the target audience.
But I understand your concern. May be even DPC will grow out of it. However I think there are timeless things, that can stick with us no mater of our age, and hold the same Value for us. I was a kid when Son Goku first went to Super Saiyan, and I felt the same joy just like back then, When He first Reached the Ultra Instinct..
Maybe I'm weird, I might be older, outside, wiser, inside, but I never truly grown up
Yeah, there's nothing quite as enjoyable as slowly winning the heart of a needle sharing smack whore by acting like a complete doormat as she treats you and your friends like shit. DPC really struck gold with Quinn.
However, I am strange in that I am not automatically turned off by games with female or even multiple protagonists. 
