VN Ren'Py Abandoned Bitch Squad [v0.4.7] [IcarusLabs]

[Alfius]

TL;DR choices that don't seem to matter, love interests who don't care, what's the point in me playing.

(This applies to your full post, but I will show the TLDR)

I fully disagree.

He is telling a single story (Like Whitcher), but the way you get to the end differs.

The decisions does matter quite a bit.
Depending on your choices your could be:

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

That does not mean the story changed, but the character's role in the story changed.

The MC is a specific character that is by nature more empathetic. (Even if you go the full revenge path)
It's in his nature and the way the game was written.

It does not mean the story will all end the same, but you need baseline for a story to actually get to completion.

I personally identify a lot with the MC as I'm also by nature, a more empathetic person (Then apparently a whole lotta other players here) The MC actions for me seems 100% natural and correct.
(I have also played other games where the MC does not reflect my own values, but I still enjoy them (i.e. Desert Stalker)

If you say that the MC is unrealistic... well I'm pretty much the MC. I'm a sucker for punishment and are always willing to give someone another chance (or second or third or fourth...) And a lot of times it comes back to bite me.

But sometimes it get's rewarded. I also know the thrill of having a superhot GF (like Ashley) if you are not Mr. popular himself.

It's easy to say dump her ass (The game even gave you that option), but if you want to make it work, you know when to stop the argument when it gets heated. BTW from experience, I could tell that if the MC would have pushed further, during their heated argument, she would have dumped him for sure. That was a pretty brutal fight between them.

 

[Havik79]

Shouldn't this have a rape tag, I mean I am not complaining cunt deserved it, but we did basically rape Emma.

 

[Alfius]

How is MC at all a simp?

He fucks Emma, his step-sister, Ashley, the redheaded partner in crime, the black girl and gets to third base with Sarah Charlotte and Kate.

Thats like 75% of the female cast lol and he isn't simping at all for any of them in fact he hate-fucks and dominates Emma in this episode. He pretty much rapes Kate sexually abuses Charlotte and posts revenge porn of Sarah. This is your definition of a simp or letting people walk over him?

As for Ashley have you ever tried to tell a girl "don't be friends with this person!". Because I found Ashleys response pretty true to reality and now it's just up to MC to either break up with her and throw her into the revenge pile or try to redeem her and expose the bitches based on whatever choice you wanna make.

This guy isn't supposed to be fucking Edmund Dantes with an unlimited fortune and 15 years having spent plotting his revenge - hes a college student making it up as he goes along either getting more corrupt himself as he does morally questionable things for revenge or learns to walk away.

And it is zero to hero even if the idea of MC being the underdog for now seems to strike a little too close to home for you given the volatility of your reaction.

MC is either rebuilding his relationship with his step-sister as well as a deepening romantic relationship with Ashley/Sarah or he is going scorched earth as mentioned above and getting set up to go after Kate's dad for corruption/murder (Charlottes mom + Miranda's husband).

Fucking 100% agreed, It's as if these guys are playing a different game.

Kate (The BS is Kate) is a formidable foe. Her dad is a super-rich elite evil bastard that's got her back (That can influence major foreign policy like it's Tuesday).

The MC is a 'nobod'y with a will to try and stop them. The rich and powerful are already starting to take notice (Miranda, The dean, Kate's dad) of him. I mean, such a powerful man like Kate's dad is "wasting" his precious time to threaten this 'nobody', is a pretty big deal. (Like politicians/FBI shut down/kill journalists that gets too close)

These players complaining won't know a good story if it hits them over the head silly and fucks them in the ass.

To the IcarusLabs, your story is perfect! Please don't change a thing!
If they did not care, they would not comment. (Take a look at the hate that Dr Pink received for Acting lessons)

 

[drifter139]

I'm fine with being direct as long as it is respectful, and I think you have been. Thank you for that. Obviously, you have developed strong opinions. Don't ever let it be said that my writing doesn't evoke strong reactions lol. I'm not sure what ability you have to see beyond what you have already decided, and generally you can't talk people out of what they believe. I mentioned that I would respond to specific questions, but multiple paragraphs are more than I'm willing to go through at this point. However, if you are willing to have an open mind, I'll attempt to respond to your key points about MC and Annie. Apologies for this being too long. Ignore it if you want.

Spoiler: Spoilers

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Wow, that was much longer than I expected! Back to work!

(Future responses to this question will be much shorter for now. Please try to make any questions specific.)

you know the old saying. "stare into the abyss and the abyss will stare back into you". this can be applied to MC in my opinion

 

[DirectXD1943]

(This applies to your full post, but I will show the TLDR)

I personally identify a lot with the MC as I'm also by nature, a more empathetic person (Then apparently a whole lotta other players here) The MC actions for me seems 100% natural and correct.
(I have also played other games where the MC does not reflect my own values, but I still enjoy them (i.e. Desert Stalker)

If you say that the MC is unrealistic... well I'm pretty much the MC. I'm a sucker for punishment and are always willing to give someone another chance (or second or third or fourth...) And a lot of times it comes back to bite me.

But sometimes it get's rewarded. I also know the thrill of having a superhot GF (like Ashley) if you are not Mr. popular himself.

It's easy to say dump her ass (The game even gave you that option), but if you want to make it work, you know when to sup the argument when it gets heated. BTW from experience, I could tell that if the MC would have pushed further, during their heated argument, she would have dumped him for sure. That was a pretty brutal fight between them.

I didn't really ask for the monologue about yourself, but I was specifically talking about the fact we're meant to see him as intelligent, but he totally fails at making convincing arguments when it matters. If Ashley is supposed to be naive and innocent as HE HIMSELF claims, then why doesn't he lean on it and talk about the long-lasting effects of her treatment of him?

Also it's a bit disingenuous to bring up the fact you can break up with her when it wasn't at all about her talking to Kate, but was about them not understanding what kind of relationship they actually had. They have clearly placed Ashley as the primary romance option, but there's no incentive to date someone who doesn't listen to you at all. The argument of 'oh people change' can only carry you so far before it's obvious that the player will have to wait for 4 future updates of some drawn out drama of Ashley joining Kate and then having the opportunity to "win her back".

You're going "omg this is so me" when you play, that's fine, but your inherent bias doesn't magically prove the story makes sense or that the choices that affect the *story* (not just romances) don't do anything.

 

[DirectXD1943]

hm a couple of posts mention Charlotte having content in the update? but i haven't seen anything with her in a few updates so i must have missed something on my original playthroughs. time a new playthrough i guess.

Could be the choice you made on your focus previously? You need to decide to focus on Charlotte and the necklace theft, and then there's

Spoiler: minor spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

and you actually learn more about her in the update, although

Spoiler: new update minor spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

is kinda cliche, but it at least helps make her more three-dimensional and can explain her poor character a bit more extrapolating the likely scenario from that

 

[Alfius]

I didn't really ask for the monologue about yourself, but I was specifically talking about the fact we're meant to see him as intelligent, but he totally fails at making convincing arguments when it matters. If Ashley is supposed to be naive and innocent as HE HIMSELF claims, then why doesn't he lean on it and talk about the long-lasting effects of her treatment of him?

Also it's a bit disingenuous to bring up the fact you can break up with her when it wasn't at all about her talking to Kate, but was about them not understanding what kind of relationship they actually had. They have clearly placed Ashley as the primary romance option, but there's no incentive to date someone who doesn't listen to you at all. The argument of 'oh people change' can only carry you so far before it's obvious that the player will have to wait for 4 future updates of some drawn out drama of Ashley joining Kate and then having the opportunity to "win her back".

You're going "omg this is so me" when you play, that's fine, but your inherent bias doesn't magically prove the story makes sense or that the choices that affect the *story* (not just romances) don't do anything.

OK, so let me take myself out of it. (I only did that, since people claimed the MC was stupid and no one would act like it)

So my view on Ashley is this.
1) They genuinely fell for each other. (I don't think anyone disputes that)

2) Kate is a pretty exceptional individual. (There are plenty of evidence for this. Loyalty of the BS. The ability of her as a first year to be able to worm her into all kinds of positions of power, did not fall into her lap. She is truly exceptional and a manages to get enormous loyalty from her followers. She is clearly a VERY good public and private speaker and manages to awe people.)

3) Even though Ashley knows about Kate's history with her BF (our MC), she was clearly impressed with Kate's speech and horrified at what the sorority did. So ideologically, she was on the side of Kate. We knew from previous interactions with Sarah, that she is also for giving people a second chance and wants to see for herself if someone is good or bad. That is exactly what she did, and in her judgement, Kate turned a new leaf and is now a good person.

4) Ashley is obviously a naive girl from a small town that believe in the good of people and I think is one of the reasons she likes the mc. She constantly pushes the MC towards reconciliation with Annie, Sarah and now Kate.

5) The fight between the MC and Ashley is 100% spot on. He tells her that she (Kate) is a bad person, but she has just been seeing the opposite at this stage and the MC comes off as petty and vindictive, especially considering that she is under the impression that the MC and Kate have agreed to be civil going forward.

The MC is just anormal guy, being in shit way over his head, trying to stop Kate.
So there! None of my own projection on any of the characters.

Now I would like to know what you wanted the MC to do differently given the following objectives:
1) He wants to enjoy his college life as far as possible.
2) He wants to stop Kate with whatever it is she is planning.
3) He wants the BS to stop bullying anyone in Future again by any means necessary.

And then I will give my re-buffs to your arguments.

 

[Last_Bernstein]

So, if you have specific questions and sincerely want my perspective on something, just tag me and ask.

If you offer that, I will take advantage of it ^^

As a premise, I did read your spoilered answer to FatGiant. Considering that I will refer to your spoilered part, I will put everything in spoilers.

Spoiler: Questions and Thoughts

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[Alfius]

If you offer that, I will take advantage of it ^^

As a premise, I did read your spoilered answer to FatGiant. Considering that I will refer to your spoilered part, I will put everything in spoilers.

I'm not the dev but allow me to give my perspective and opinions as a fan. (I wanted to do a reply on FatGiant as well, so this one serves as a double answer )

Spoiler: Questions and Thoughts

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[iMucha]

Live look inside of Ashley's head...

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Playing this game is actually making me angry. Why did MC not immediately break up with Ashley afte he found out that she's friends with Kate? Wouldn't that just make sense? His girlfriend is friends with people that did all that shit to him and somehow he ends up being the bad guy in the situation and Ashley is portrayed like the rational one even though what sehe did is scummy as fuck. I don't really understand what the dev is trying to do here? Is this supposed to be a revenge game or not? Because at this point I'm not so sure.

 

[Derpyshanks]

Please tell me not everything too bad is put on Kate's father.

This. This right here. If in the end everything is everybody else's fault but the B-Squad then that would be lame as fuck.

Could you imagine...

"Oh that thing...that was Kate's dad fault.."

"Oh the nudes...oh her dad's goons did that.

"The other leaks? That was Miranda...See MC your hatred for us blinded you to the truth"

 

[FatGiant]

I'm not the dev but allow me to give my perspective and opinions as a fan. (I wanted to do a reply on FatGiant as well, so this one serves as a double answer )

Spoiler: Questions and Thoughts

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

All of this makes sense. Yet, none of this makes the MC likable. I can drop it after what the Dev explained and the promise of further growth, I'll see the next 2 updates. I am NOT convinced, but, my desire to be able to love this game fully gives me some measure of hope. In the end, I made my views as clear as I could. Anyone is free to agree or disagree. Remember only that I wrote all that because I want to LOVE this game. There's NO hate for the game, but yes a profound distrust and dislike for the MC as it has been written so far.

I've read your other interpretations of the same scenes. It's fascinating to see this through other eyes and perspectives. I don't have to agree, but be sure that I appreciated the change in POV. But, yeah, I agree with some points you raised. Mainly about Kate. Her role is beyond doubt, what isn't clear for me, so far, is the goal. Is it even her goal? Clearly the BS is being aided by external forces. Are they requested by Kate? Are they under some other darker power? There's a end goal there, but, is Kate complicit or a tool? The other girls aren't important, they are there only to help Kate and to satisfy their dark desires of power.

I confess that until this update and the sex scene with Annie, I was on board on the forgiving her. After her answer to the MC "I Love You", I have changed my view of her. She's playing with him, has always been playing with him. She's anything but innocent. "I know" means that she knew that he loved her, yet, accepted, allowed and endorsed the humiliation of him. Emma is Psycho, but Annie is cruel. When confronted she even berates him, he's the one that is wrong. Yet, she knows. She knows.

Ashley will turn on the MC. I now consider her a enemy, not a LI. In fact, only Linda is a LI right now. All the others are enemies or Amber that only wants Charlotte.

I see the future of this story with a sense of doom. And I don't see the MC as capable to avoid it.

Time will tell.

Peace

 

[Alfius]

I see the future of this story with a sense of doom. And I don't see the MC as capable to avoid it.

Time will tell.

Peace

As a fellow player that also loves the game I would say that your outlook is maybe overly pessimistic.

I read the "I know" differently then you. Apart from it being a Star War reference to Han Solo's reply to Princess Lyia that I found quite funny. It's almost an acknowledgement or acceptance of his love that she previously knowingly repressed.

I would just say the following: Trust the developer that so far has delivered an excellent game.

Our emotions go through ups and downs, but the truth is that the game is not even halfway through (3 out of a possible 8 chapters).

I understand wanting to give the MC a win (and to be fair, he already had some small victories), but I would argue, the victory is so much sweeter after a hard-won battle (towards the end of the 8 chapters).

It's like reading a "A song of Ice and Fire" All the heartache, makes the victories so much sweeter when they occur, but the road to victory should be difficult.

So my advice would be to trust the developer to write his story.

 

[FatGiant]

As a fellow player that also loves the game I would say that your outlook is maybe overly pessimistic.

I read the "I know" differently then you. Apart from it being a Star War reference to Han Solo's reply to Princess Lyia that I found quite funny. It's almost an acknowledgement or acceptance of his love that she previously knowingly repressed.

I would just say the following: Trust the developer that so far has delivered an excellent game.

Our emotions go through ups and downs, but the truth is that the game is not even halfway through (3 out of a possible 8 chapters).

I understand wanting to give the MC a win (and to be fair, he already had some small victories), but I would argue, the victory is so much sweeter after a hard-won battle (towards the end of the 8 chapters).

It's like reading a "A song of Ice and Fire" All the heartache, makes the victories so much sweeter when they occur, but the road to victory should be difficult.

So my advice would be to trust the developer to write his story.

Yeah. That trust is what is being very difficult right now. All I can see is the story going further down with FemDom and Humiliation overtones.

The Dev tried to defend his story, I like that. I am trying to stifle the need to run away from this story before it goes into the depths that I am seeing it going to. Let's see what comes.

Peace

 

[vogelbeest]

The start doesn't make much sense.... Does MC really own only the cloths he is wearing? He can just pick a new set from his closet, but no.... he's gonna run naked through the living room where a bunch of girls are, only for Emma to take photos, so he can complain about how they totally humiliated him...

What he does and why, doesn't make much sense in the rest of the story either... You have choices, but often the result is the same, perhaps some different RP score with the girls but not something clearly different in the story now... Several lewd scenes are unavoidable, something that's just weird, why would you do that with any girl of the bitch squad? They're his enemy, so you would hope the MC by now has a healthy dose of distrust towards them? But no, boobs! So what more reason could he need?
It's just half-assed motivation most of the time... Either go for revenge or go for reconciliation but don't go for both...
Give the MC clear motivation why he does things and let his actions reflect his choices in the story....

 

[Last_Bernstein]

I think, Alfius, you intermixed my questions with FatGiant's comment a little too much. Many of your answers are, I think, colored by this, and therefore partly completely ignore my actual question. Most of them are really not possible to be answered by anyone else than the author/creator of the game.

Spoiler: Alfius Answers

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Ashley will turn on the MC. I now consider her an enemy, not a LI. In fact, only Linda is a LI right now. All the others are enemies or Amber that only wants Charlotte.

What about Rachel? 0o Wasn't she an absolute dear to us from the start? Even bringing Kate to her knees and blowing the MC was all her! I mean, who can compare to that assist?

Jokes aside, I don't think Emma is a psycho. More accurate would be fanatic/radical follower of Kate. I see her as the iron fist and velvet glove of Kate. She does take care of people acting out and pushing people in line, as well as "rewarding" certain behavior. Essentially, a stick and carrot in one package for Kate. She cares too much about Kate and revers her too much for a psycho, or maybe that is why you see her as one. Not that she is not bad news, but I think she is quite the rational actor. Just her rationale is Kate, which is all kind of bad.

As a side note, I am with you on the Annie issue ^^

 

[IcarusLabs]

If you offer that, I will take advantage of it ^^

As a premise, I did read your spoilered answer to FatGiant. Considering that I will refer to your spoilered part, I will put everything in spoilers.

Spoiler: Questions and Thoughts

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Good questions! Answers below, thanks for asking!

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[Alfius]

I think, Alfius, you intermixed my questions with FatGiant's comment a little too much. Many of your answers are, I think, colored by this, and therefore partly completely ignore my actual question. Most of them are really not possible to be answered by anyone else than the author/creator of the game.

For fear of taking over the thread, I think I 'm not going to reply to your points. Some of them have given some food for thought to me.

I love the game, so would not mind chatting about if further on PMs.

 

[hysepReC]

Yeah. That trust is what is being very difficult right now. All I can see is the story going further down with FemDom

Really?

Is this FemDom?

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Or this?

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

It's fine if you don't like the way the story is going but you are just talking nonsense now. My only real issue with the game is Ashley. She apparently has these strong feelings for the MC but now she's hanging out the girl that made his life miserable? Not only that, she practically drooled all over her in the changing room and i half expected them to start making out. Fucking hell, Ashley is an awful girlfriend.

IcarusLabs, will we get the opportunity to dump Ashley later or are we stuck with her if she becomes the MC's girlfriend? I want her to be able to let her know that she could have had something with the MC if she wasn't such a snake.

 

[Alfius]

It's fine if you don't like the way the story is going but you are just talking nonsense now. My only real issue with the game is Ashley. She apparently has these strong feelings for the MC but now she's hanging out the girl that made his life miserable? Not only that, she practically drooled all over her in the changing room and i half expected them to start making out. Fucking hell, Ashley is an awful girlfriend.

IcarusLabs, will we get the opportunity to dump Ashley later or are we stuck with her if she becomes the MC's girlfriend? I want her to be able to let her know that she could have had something with the MC if she wasn't such a snake.

I will bite...

I made a post about Ashley here:
https://f95zone.to/threads/bitch-squad-v0-3-0-icaruslabs.120056/post-9961678
with her motivations for her action from her POV.

You can think she is wrong, but she is definitely not irrational in her position.