RPGM Abandoned Black Garden [v0.1.9b Alpha] [FeyRing]

[Evangelion-01]

FeyRing
My personal 2 Cents.... currently it's rather tedious to build up Craftman exp if you didn't pick any profession from the start.
I'd suggest to atleast offer some NPC that teaches basic skills like foraging and wood cutting/ lumberjack from the get go.
Personally I think learning the mining skill as is, is pretty worthless, you need 200 craft exp to actually make use of it, as you first have to learn the basics and than specialize into any of the 3 sub skills... would be better if the Mine Overseer would actually teach both basic mining and iron mining as sub skill level 1, since that's what they specialise in

 

[Dollars303]

It'd be easier for him to just make it so iron requires specialization of metal at level 0. I think that'd be an easier fix for making it so you can mine right away. Or make it so iron has it's own specialization if 0 is bad for coding.

 

[MaskOfMirth]

Well in opposition to my previous complaints, I decided that since I hadn't quite done everything that the game had to offer, I would give it another chance. So I put another three hours into the game and found that the game isn't quite as bad as I initially thought in terms of grind. No mistake, there is still an ungodly amount of grinding to be done, but it isn't as bad as it seems once you unlock the first skills. There is a major snowball effect going for this game. Here's what I've found so far, and keep in mind I'm no expert at this game and there are plenty of things that I don't understand.

The beginning grind is rough. All that you can really do is flirt with goblins or wash laundry, both for negligible amounts of craft XP. At the same time, you need at least 500 coins (450 if you can pass speech checks) and 100 craft XP to unlock a skill. I went with mining, of which was useless until I had another 100 craft XP and another 450 coins to unlock the iron mining sub-skill.

Unlocking iron mining then gave me three iron veins to mine inside the goblin mine, which give you (from what I've seen) between 9-15 craft XP each. Add that on top of the three laundry options which give between 1-7 craft XP. So now that you have extra skills that you can use, you get even more XP, to unlock skills, which gives you even MORE XP. So there is a snowball and it gets easier after that first skill comes into play.

But now let's talk about combat...*sigh*...IT'S BAD. It's unbalanced, it's punishing, and it's just NOT fun. In any RPG ever, everybody knows that rats and slimes are the weakest of the weak and a good source of early game combat experience, but no. Not in this game. Now it might be different if you picked anything besides the bard class, as I did, but simple rats and enough to beat not just me, but my pet as well, and if it looks like I maybe have a chance of actually winning, then the rats just run away...slimes, on the other hand, the other 'easy' enemy. Don't even try. Slimes in this game, for a bard anyway, might as well be Queen Onyxia.

There is a quest in the game to get honey from hornets (was pretty sure honey was a bee thing, but whatever) and I thought 'might as well, can't kill anything else'. So I went out to hunt a hornet. Turns out, they have an attack that hits you five times. Almost a one-hit kill, and there's not much you can do about it because the skill that gives you more VP, only gives you a single point into it, apparently.

So my conclusion is this: The skills aren't actually as bad as I thought, though buying skillbooks is stupidly expensive and you have to buy some skills that anybody would know how to do from birth. But combat is far too difficult, especially with how inaccessible weapons and armor are. So this isn't a game that you casually play, and if you do plan on playing then make sure you have a lot of time set aside for it.

 

[FeyRing]

This is completely false and is this game's biggest issue right now, the most glaring one being the whole construction table debacle, being impossible to craft even with maxed skills. You have to buy it to even begin.

I'll look into providing this crafting bench as part of an early game quest reward in the next update.

It might be different if you could at least do something with the general mining skill, like mine stone but you can't and it just begs the question of "why have a skill that does nothing?".

You can actually use the base skill to mine out the walls in the mine to open secret rooms, you get a lot more Craft EXP for doing so. But I get your point in general.

My personal 2 Cents.... currently it's rather tedious to build up Craftman exp if you didn't pick any profession from the start.
I'd suggest to atleast offer some NPC that teaches basic skills like foraging and wood cutting/ lumberjack from the get go.
Personally I think learning the mining skill as is, is pretty worthless, you need 200 craft exp to actually make use of it, as you first have to learn the basics and than specialize into any of the 3 sub skills... would be better if the Mine Overseer would actually teach both basic mining and iron mining as sub skill level 1, since that's what they specialise in

You do get warned to take at least some Skills during character creation, not taking any is meant to make the game harder, a trade off for taking some rather good traits or increases to base stats.

It'd be easier for him to just make it so iron requires specialization of metal at level 0. I think that'd be an easier fix for making it so you can mine right away. Or make it so iron has it's own specialization if 0 is bad for coding.

Also, a slight suggestion, but can you make it so if we pay 5 silver and 100 exp to unlock a skill, PLEASE make the first 100 exp cost skill in it free. It will help with the grind massively, for something like smithing it doesn't matter, but buying mining only to still not be able to use it is a huge kick in the gut. Or better yet, make it so you can only buy it when you have 100 exp or over, but it not actually consume it.

In general this whole Mining issue with Craft Exp seems to be brought up quite a lot. So I think I'll do what you suggested and make it so that you don't consume the initial 100 Craft Exp required to buy the skill and instead are allowed to allocate them to a specialisation of your choice.

I went with mining, of which was useless until I had another 100 craft XP and another 450 coins to unlock the iron mining sub-skill.

You don't need coins to unlock the specialisation after the initial training!

But now let's talk about combat...*sigh*...IT'S BAD. It's unbalanced, it's punishing, and it's just NOT fun. In any RPG ever, everybody knows that rats and slimes are the weakest of the weak and a good source of early game combat experience, but no. Not in this game. Now it might be different if you picked anything besides the bard class, as I did, but simple rats and enough to beat not just me, but my pet as well, and if it looks like I maybe have a chance of actually winning, then the rats just run away...

Bards start as a non-combat class in this game. An average Bard would only be able to beat 1-2 Rats per day and would most likely waste their time in the process. You can increase Combat EXP through beating on training dummies in the Goblin Tower, a safe, though very slow method of getting Combat Exp. Rats, Hornets and even Wolves are only an easy source of Combat EXP if you actually took a combat capable class like the Mage, Warrior and to a lesser extent the Rogue. A Mage or Warrior can even challenege a Werewolf while sporting relatively weak armour and weapon.

slimes, on the other hand, the other 'easy' enemy. Don't even try. Slimes in this game, for a bard anyway, might as well be Queen Onyxia.

Slime Girls are not meant to be an easy enemy in this game. The classic RPG Slimes do exist, they are the Slime Minions which are found in the Slime Girl encounter. In general, this encounter is not meant to be tackled on without actual gear and definitely not by a class with no combat abilities. However, you can get 2 Bombs from a quest in the Goblin Mines which can be used to sweep the whole troop in one or two hits.

But combat is far too difficult, especially with how inaccessible weapons and armor are. So this isn't a game that you casually play, and if you do plan on playing then make sure you have a lot of time set aside for it.

You don't really need weapons and armour to take down any of the day time encounters provided you pick a class designed for actual combat or obtain a combat Skill. A non-combat class can still buy their way to crafting some basic armour/weapons and accessories. At the very least an Anvil for Smithing is publicly available for use in the Goblin Foundry. Furthermore, combat in this game is optional and any time a quest requires you to participate in it, you are generally offered a way to make the encounter easier/trivial by taking on an additional quest.

 

[DaBouncer]

Combat is fine as is tbh, with my current game I started with all my stats at lvl 1, and I can kill every enemy, including that fucking fire breath boar asshole that loves to just roflstomp me.

Fun fact about that enemy, I got complacent and got caught in one's spawn zone as it turned night, and to make it worse I saved RIGHT as it turned night, so there was always a second before I could move whilst it could, combat was unavoidable so I had to fight it with nothing but the gifted knuckle weapon, and one of the armours weaker than iron chainmail. I had a poison vial though so I used that on it, then just spammed defence and heal til the poison wore off, getting in a stun attack whenever possible. I somehow won after 10-15 failed attempts. Now, with an iron sword, iron scale, iron shield and decent-ish accessories, I still can't fight them without some form of cheese strat, despite every other enemy doing only 1 damage to me.

 

[FeyRing]

Combat is fine as is tbh, with my current game I started with all my stats at lvl 1, and I can kill every enemy, including that fucking fire breath boar asshole that loves to just roflstomp me.

Fun fact about that enemy, I got complacent and got caught in one's spawn zone as it turned night, and to make it worse I saved RIGHT as it turned night, so there was always a second before I could move whilst it could, combat was unavoidable so I had to fight it with nothing but the gifted knuckle weapon, and one of the armours weaker than iron chainmail. I had a poison vial though so I used that on it, then just spammed defence and heal til the poison wore off, getting in a stun attack whenever possible. I somehow won after 10-15 failed attempts. Now, with an iron sword, iron scale, iron shield and decent-ish accessories, I still can't fight them without some form of cheese strat, despite every other enemy doing only 1 damage to me.

They should be easily beatable if using attack skills like Rapid Slash or Ice Magic so long as you have about 3+ in Str for Rapid Slash or 3+ in Int for Magic. Their Fire Breath attack actually ignores your Toughness so having high phisical resistance Armour doesn't do much against that attack. Chitin Armour would probably work better against it as it provides Resilience, a stat that decreases damage from Energy and Magical attacks. Alternatively, Opal Amulets also provide a stacking +1 to Resilience and a "Fancy Cloak" gives 20% Fire Resistance. Agility also lowers the damage you take from Breath attacks.

 

[MaskOfMirth]

So pretty much your entire counter-argument is "well if you took a combat class". But I didn't. I took bard, which is a class that YOU made. I knew I was being handicapped by taking the class, but I didn't realize that I was going to be shutting myself out of half of the game for the time it took me to be able to forge any sort of gear. No default class should be a wet noodle, because then you get people like me who pick it, because 'a bard in a game about getting laid? Well, that seems like a winner'. And then however many hours later when we realize that it was a terrible decision, people likely aren't going to want to restart and pick a better class because a grinding game like this isn't very replayable.

 

[DaBouncer]

So pretty much your entire counter-argument is "well if you took a combat class". But I didn't. I took bard, which is a class that YOU made. I knew I was being handicapped by taking the class, but I didn't realize that I was going to be shutting myself out of half of the game for the time it took me to be able to forge any sort of gear. No default class should be a wet noodle, because then you get people like me who pick it, because 'a bard in a game about getting laid? Well, that seems like a winner'. And then however many hours later when we realize that it was a terrible decision, people likely aren't going to want to restart and pick a better class because a grinding game like this isn't very replayable.

This is why I ALWAYS go 100% custom, as 90% of the time the premade builds are either bad, poorly optomized or in rare cases too technical.

Does the game actually tell you what was invested into the premades? Because if not, that is an issue...

 

[MaskOfMirth]

This is why I ALWAYS go 100% custom, as 90% of the time the premade builds are either bad, poorly optomized or in rare cases too technical.

Does the game actually tell you what was invested into the premades? Because if not, that is an issue...

It does tell you the perks of each class, yes..so I will give him credit there. But there was only like a +1 or +2 to a couple of different things and I guess I didn't realize just how much that single or two points meant in this game. It's an rpg maker game, and normally in these games you can expect nothing to change with such small values but I guess I was wrong.

 

[FeyRing]

So pretty much your entire counter-argument is "well if you took a combat class". But I didn't. I took bard, which is a class that YOU made. I knew I was being handicapped by taking the class, but I didn't realize that I was going to be shutting myself out of half of the game for the time it took me to be able to forge any sort of gear.

"Half of the Game" is a bit of stretch given how combat is optional and that you don't get any sex scene for winning.

No default class should be a wet noodle, because then you get people like me who pick it, because 'a bard in a game about getting laid? Well, that seems like a winner'.

The game description specifically mentions that there are different ways of approaching the game play. Yes, people who just want to get laid will pick Bard, and they will also notice in it's preset that it has no combat capabilities what so ever before they finalise their pick. I don't see a reason why every preset class needs to have combat capabilities just because it's an RPG where you can fight monsters. Furthermore, playing a Bard in no way blocks you out of any sex scenes or main story progression and does indeed help you get laid easier and with better results.

This is why I ALWAYS go 100% custom, as 90% of the time the premade builds are either bad, poorly optimized or in rare cases too technical.

The game originally released only with the custom build option. As a result a lot of people found it hard to make a character that they thought was actually playable. The preset classes were added relatively recently to help people play something that is actually playable so all of them are pretty simple but effective for their theme.

But there was only like a +1 or +2 to a couple of different things and I guess I didn't realize just how much that single or two points meant in this game. It's an rpg maker game, and normally in these games you can expect nothing to change with such small values but I guess I was wrong.

One point indeed makes a big difference and Two points is a massive difference. The RPG system stat wise is closer to some of the pen and paper D20 systems then to a standard RPG Maker game.

 

[HarryRM]

Will there be human settlements that we can conquer after the other races? :3

 

[MaskOfMirth]

"Half of the Game" is a bit of stretch given how combat is optional and that you don't get any sex scene for winning.



The game description specifically mentions that there are different ways of approaching the game play. Yes, people who just want to get laid will pick Bard, and they will also notice in it's preset that it has no combat capabilities what so ever before they finalise their pick. I don't see a reason why every preset class needs to have combat capabilities just because it's an RPG where you can fight monsters. Furthermore, playing a Bard in no way blocks you out of any sex scenes or main story progression and does indeed help you get laid easier and with better results.



The game originally released only with the custom build option. As a result a lot of people found it hard to make a character that they thought was actually playable. The preset classes were added relatively recently to help people play something that is actually playable so all of them are pretty simple but effective for their theme.



One point indeed makes a big difference and Two points is a massive difference. The RPG system stat wise is closer to some of the pen and paper D20 systems then to a standard RPG Maker game.

Okay 'combat is optional' but if you go that route then you have to spend EVEN LONGER grinding skills to get around doing it. i.e. getting honey, of which you need 12 for two different quests. Well, you can grind absolutely forever to rebuild the bridge and then buy and level up the foraging skill and get honey from the hives, or you could just go kill hornets for it straight away. Or you could grind money and just maybe the store will have some for two silver and some change each. Nobody has ever said, "Oh yeah, I could do it this way but I'd rather spend hours grinding so that I could do it another way". Like, let's be realistic here and at least TRY to understand that it's a ridiculous nerf, even for a class that's not meant for combat.

 

[FeyRing]

Okay 'combat is optional' but if you go that route then you have to spend EVEN LONGER grinding skills to get around doing it. i.e. getting honey, of which you need 12 for two different quests. Well, you can grind absolutely forever to rebuild the bridge and then buy and level up the foraging skill and get honey from the hives, or you could just go kill hornets for it straight away. Or you could grind money and just maybe the store will have some for two silver and some change each. Nobody has ever said, "Oh yeah, I could do it this way but I'd rather spend hours grinding so that I could do it another way". Like, let's be realistic here and at least TRY to understand that it's a ridiculous nerf, even for a class that's not meant for combat.

The store stock generates once a day the first time you talk to the Goblin Merchant. The chance of her selling Honey is 5%. If you absolutely have to have all the Honey and now, you can always use the cheat sheet to get infinite money and then reload the game next to the NPC until she sells it (though you can easily get 5-10 silver per day from just picking up and selling the junk on the forest floor which by definition would mean you can get a combat skill ~5 days into the game without spending any vitality or will power). The Bard class was designed for working in the Brothel, getting discounts and looting locked chests and people's pockets for the start of the game, after which you could really go in any direction with it. I don't plan to introduce any changes to the Bard class as it is working as intended within the current system (and since the game doesn't actually track which class you picked, any changes added wouldn't be added retroactively to players anyway).

On a side note, Hornets only have a 12.5% chance of dropping Honey so you wont exactly get it straight away even with a combat class.

Will there be human settlements that we can conquer after the other races? :3

It is definitely planned but might not happen for a while yet. I have some plans for conquering a human Fort but it's still early on the drawing board.

 

[DaBouncer]

What's the drop rate of spider eggs? I have looted 47 spider webs with every stat in agriculture at 4 (except woodcutting) and I hav received 0 eggs. Is it because my luck is at 1? If so, is there any equipment that boosts luck, or do I need to find a Pig's Fortune potion (or whatever it was called)?

 

[FeyRing]

What's the drop rate of spider eggs? I have looted 47 spider webs with every stat in agriculture at 4 (except woodcutting) and I hav received 0 eggs. Is it because my luck is at 1? If so, is there any equipment that boosts luck, or do I need to find a Pig's Fortune potion (or whatever it was called)?

You actually need Entomology spec in Agriculture for it to drop at all. However, I just checked and there is an error in loot calculation for the Webs, so it's actually impossible to get it from Webs right now. Usually the chance would be 1% + 2% per Luck point +3% per Entomology point. I'll have the bug corrected for the next release, thanks for the heads up.

There is also a 0.1% chance of getting it when you pat the head of a Goblin Kid once a day, but that was more meant as a joke way of getting it and is not meant to be the primary source of those eggs.

 

[mmmonsterkill]

how do i make comfy bed, there doesn't seem to be any way to buy recipies

 

[DaBouncer]

how do i make comfy bed, there doesn't seem to be any way to buy recipies

Level up your construction skill. Also, heads up, level up your tailoring.

Or do it the cheese way and savescum at the forest chest, that has a small chance to drop a comfy bed.

You actually need Entomology spec in Agriculture for it to drop at all. However, I just checked and there is an error in loot calculation for the Webs, so it's actually impossible to get it from Webs right now. Usually the chance would be 1% + 2% per Luck point +3% per Entomology point. I'll have the bug corrected for the next release, thanks for the heads up.

There is also a 0.1% chance of getting it when you pat the head of a Goblin Kid once a day, but that was more meant as a joke way of getting it and is not meant to be the primary source of those eggs.

So I'm supposed to have a 15% chance, nice. Guess the 0.1% is our current primary source!

 

[mmmonsterkill]

Level up your construction skill. Also, heads up, level up your tailoring.

Or do it the cheese way and savescum at the forest chest, that has a small chance to drop a comfy bed.


So I'm supposed to have a 15% chance, nice. Guess the 0.1% is our current primary source!

construction only lets me level up something called wright vitality got it to lvl 5 before i gave up

 

[FeyRing]

how do i make comfy bed, there doesn't seem to be any way to buy recipies

It's level 3 Construction but you need a bunch of components that requires Level 3 Tailoring as well. You might be better of buying one when it's in stock instead.

Guess the 0.1% is our current primary source!

Unfortunately! Luckily, there aren't that many things that use Silk yet.

construction only lets me level up something called wright vitality got it to lvl 5 before i gave up

You level crafting skills up by crafting with them instead of using Craft EXP.

 

[mmmonsterkill]

It's level 3 Construction but you need a bunch of components that requires Level 3 Tailoring as well. You might be better of buying one when it's in stock instead.



Unfortunately! Luckily, there aren't that many things that use Silk yet.



You level crafting skills up by crafting with them instead of using Craft EXP.

yeah i figured it out eventually, but maybe consider adjusting the exp gains on that thing it took me over half an hour to make the bed even with saveedit cheating.