HTML Abandoned BreakDown [v10] [Klausus]

[Klausus]

Something happened during "Gold Rush". The number of female prisoners in my prison is now NaN / 25

I tried to find the problem, but couldn't. Maybe i already fixed it already, since i changed quite some code since the last update. There seems to be a problem with "Nan" and subjects too.
I could imagine that both problems are related, then it's probably the escape/desert mechanics. That's part of the promised overhaul anyway and i hope that it is gone by then.
Another reason could be, that you have to restart the game to make everything work properly, since i had to change some core variables. I try to avoid that when the game isn't beta anymore.

I'm trying to change governments, but I can't figure out what to click on to make it happen.

I just run into the same problems. I had a spelling error in "Council Rule" and "Dictatorship", therfore it's impossible to install "Council Rule" and "Dictatorship" won't work as intended.

I just updated game, when Devs are as fast as last time, it shoulc be up within an hour.

EDIT: I personally helped with research, and now the fertilzer cost is shown as NaN.

Should work now. I just tested it and also changed research somewhat.

 

[WarblGarbl]

Do you have any guides on how to make a video pack? I'm interested in trying though I'm not sure about the naming conventions. Should I just go through the twine code and base my titles off that? Do the titles differ based on if its for video pack 1 or pack 2?

 

[Dark_Enlightenment]

Oh shit, second paragraph and it hasn't gotten any better...


"Now, almost 50 years later, not much has changed. There are no countries and no governments. A few communities managed to survive living a simple life of farmers and hunters.

You are (First Name). Your father was one of the few people who "always had seen it comming". He was better prepared than most other people. He had a secure place, hidden in an abondened mountain area. He had stored supplies and equipment for many years to come.
But now he is dead and you are all alone. Your mother died when you were born. Your father did his best to raise you to become a strong and independent man, armed with all necessary skills to survive in a harsh environment.

Basically, you have everything to live on your own, but you are lonely. Even though you are socially unexperienced due to the lack of company, you realize that you are the born leader. With every day passing by, you are more and more driven by the thought to explore the world around you. You want to find other humans, build a society, create something lasting, reproduce."

First pet peeve, consistent formatting. There is a break and a blank space breaking this up into three blocks of text, but in the middle of the second (after '...many years to come.') there is another break, but without the extra space to separate it into four blocks. Pick one or the other. Either eliminate the break and make it a single paragraph, or commit to the break and give it a gap like the other two. Whatever you choose to do, make sure you consistently apply that standard going forward, otherwise it just looks very sloppy.


"Now, almost 50 years later, not much has changed. There are no countries and no governments. A few communities managed to survive living a simple life of farmers and hunters."

Really? Fifty years, and there wasn't a single Steve who put their foot down and declared their neighborhood to be Stevelandia?


"You are (First Name). Your father was one of the few people who "always had seen it comming". He was better prepared than most other people. He had a secure place, hidden in an abondened mountain area. He had stored supplies and equipment for many years to come."

Coming. Abandoned.

So the protagonist grew up with a parent or parents who were preppers. That is definitely gonna color the outlook of their children. Might want to actually read up on the subject, seeing as how it's easily one of the most influential aspects of the protagonist's formative years.


"But now he is dead and you are all alone. Your mother died when you were born. Your father did his best to raise you to become a strong and independent man, armed with all necessary skills to survive in a harsh environment."

Well, how did the father die? Old age? Accident? Eaten alive by giant mutated cockroaches? The mother gets a blurb, why not the father?


"Basically, you have everything to live on your own, but you are lonely. Even though you are socially unexperienced due to the lack of company, you realize that you are the born leader. With every day passing by, you are more and more driven by the thought to explore the world around you. You want to find other humans, build a society, create something lasting, reproduce."

Cool. Thanks for eliminating all tension from survival. You just happen to live in an entirely self-sufficient and self-maintaining underground shelter or something? Sounds like you have 'everything'.

That second sentence is pure unadulterated bullshit. Leaders aren't born, they're made; and they're not made in a vacuum. A leader who has not been tested is not a good leader either.

How are you driven by the thought to explore? Unless this is a Fallout-like situation and you're trapped in a Vault and unable to leave, what is stopped you from just doing it? Why sell it like you are obsessing over your thoughts, when placating that curiosity is as simple as opening up the door and stepping out on your own? Something you can presumably do at any time.

The definition of extinction is not as restrictive as you make it out to be. De-extinction is a real life concept, and in games and other forms of fiction it is common for things to come back from the dead. Even when it comes to discussing ostensibly historical events, some say that Jesus rose from the dead, not that he wasn't truly dead to begin with.

And while you are correct in pointing out that food chains is not the correct term, I think it is fair to assume from the context that the author refers to food supply chains.

Provisional governments failing again makes sense since the author mentioned goverments in general failing to counter global threats previously.

Anarchy can metaphorically take over, like how anxiety or panic can take over a person. Anarchy as a political movement, as opposed to a synonym for chaos, does not necessarily exclude organization in the absence of a government or other central power.

The sentence about leadership is about the character thinking of himself as being a born leader. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of real life people who are recorded as having said they are destined to be or born with the psychological profile to be, or aspire to be, a leader, so a fictional character thinking that he is born to be the singular leader doesn't seem impossible.

 

[Klausus]

Do you have any guides on how to make a video pack? I'm interested in trying though I'm not sure about the naming conventions. Should I just go through the twine code and base my titles off that? Do the titles differ based on if its for video pack 1 or pack 2?

The titles for pack1 and pack2 are exactly the same. You could just copy paste them and replace them with your own stuff.
However, i made a guide for seatflapjack. It's simple but it should help to get the hang of it. Otherwise, it helps when you have played the game a little, because the naming is easy to catch.

I really like that you want to do a pack. When you have question ask here or pm me.

 

[Klausus]

The sentence about leadership is about the character thinking of himself as being a born leader. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of real life people who are recorded as having said they are destined to be or born with the psychological profile to be, or aspire to be, a leader, so a fictional character thinking that he is born to be the singular leader doesn't seem impossible.

You hit it, i wanted to picture the player character as somewhat crazy, because studies have shown that many leaders/manager (those who seek power over others) have mental disorders (like narzism or lack of empathy).
And i think the society that is build in the game speaks for itself.^^

 

[EvolutionKills]

The definition of extinction is not as restrictive as you make it out to be. De-extinction is a real life concept, and in games and other forms of fiction it is common for things to come back from the dead. Even when it comes to discussing ostensibly historical events, some say that Jesus rose from the dead, not that he wasn't truly dead to begin with.

No, it is. Extinction is when there are no living members. If that is true, then there is nothing to come back from. If that's not how you are using the term, you aren't using it correctly. The Dodo is extinct, and won't be coming back. The Coelacanth was thought to be extinct, but wasn't. It's not that the fish magically spouted new members out of nothing, rather new living members were discovered that belied its disappearance from the fossil record millions of years ago. It was thought to have no living members, but that happened to be incorrect.

Also trying to point to a supposed supernatural event isn't a great way to make a point.

The sentence about leadership is about the character thinking of himself as being a born leader. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of real life people who are recorded as having said they are destined to be or born with the psychological profile to be, or aspire to be, a leader, so a fictional character thinking that he is born to be the singular leader doesn't seem impossible.

It's not that it is impossible, rather it is stupid and lazy. The line isn't written to actually make any sense in context, but rather to complete a checklist of traits for the MC. According to the game itself, the MC grew up with only their father for company. So this wasn't someone who at a young age demonstrated natural leadership ability by being the head of their siblings or a local gang of kids or something. This was someone who grew up with nobody else except their father, who was in the singular leadership position, then once they were dead thought they could do the same but with more people. The MC living in an isolationist vacuum, with zero experience, not only thinks they can lead people, but that they're so naturally good that they'd be the best at it. It's stupid on the face of it, and even more absurd in context. Again, this wasn't written because it makes sense, it was written to hand wave away why the MC is in charge. But given how atrocious the MC's leadership is at the start of the game and how everyone leaves/dies no matter what you do, even the game itself undermines its own assertions here. It needs to go, or be rewritten.

 

[Klausus]

But given how atrocious the MC's leadership is at the start of the game and how everyone leaves/dies no matter what you do, even the game itself undermines its own assertions here. It needs to go, or be rewritten.

You can avoid that everybody leaves in the game. And with the dying. A lot of people died under leaders who are seen as great leaders. It depends on the point of view if a leader is great or not. Let's get the standard example: Iam pretty sure a lot of people thought Hitler was a great leader. How many people died?

 

[Dark_Enlightenment]

No, it is. Extinction is when there are no living members. If that is true, then there is nothing to come back from. If that's not how you are using the term, you aren't using it correctly. The Dodo is extinct, and won't be coming back. The Coelacanth was thought to be extinct, but wasn't. It's not that the fish magically spouted new members out of nothing, rather new living members were discovered that belied its disappearance from the fossil record millions of years ago. It was thought to have no living members, but that happened to be incorrect.

Also trying to point to a supposed supernatural event isn't a great way to make a point.

I can understand where you are coming from with the "hard" death and extinction definitions, but they are simply not the way those concepts are used. You could view the wikipedia pages on de-extinction, definition of death and the associated problems, and resurrection, but to put it simply, it is not practical or possible to determine at which point a thing is "truly" and irreversibly gone and lost, and the language commonly refers to bringing things back from the dead, rather than correcting the mistakenly assigned status of death with some other diagnosis.

Description of the supernatural event was to illustrate the way the words are used; Jesus is more often said to have died and then came back by divine intervention, not to have been mistakenly thought of as dead until resuscitated by divine intervention. In the same manner people talk of bringing woolly mammoths back from extinction through human intervention, such as cloning. In fantasy games you are said to have died, and then brought back by a spell.

 

[EPGerhart]

Should I be waiting on beta v3 or continuing to experiment ?

 

[Klausus]

Should I be waiting on beta v3 or continuing to experiment ?

It's up for several hours i think. But í forgot to update it in the game, don't wonder when it states v2.

 

[Rasthal]

the resets are SUPER annoying. just when i get some control and start gewtting farmers for area two it just resets me for i have comleted the achivement that gives you lvl 3 instantly.....

 

[biohazard1453]

I have played through v2 and the loyalty mechanic is much better. A few things I have noticed with the system, the loyalty achievement rewards is now mostly useless. The 50 loyalty only works if you have a male subject at the start of the area and if you move him into the gang or lose him the loyalty will reset when you get your next person. You could probably change it to a 5 or 10 cap increase.

A few comments about the area system too. The first area is now almost completely useless. The new focuses mean even a brand new character can max out their stamina near instantly and get started on building an actual settlement. It might be better to just start on area 2.
Also either some of the grind could be shortened or the area timescales increased because it always seems that most of my time is just spent clicking through waiting for either gold or prisoner training and as soon as I really start going the area ends and I move on. Maybe rather than doing one thing in a settlement and moving on there could be multiple main objectives such as combining the farm and village quests into one area.

 

[EPGerhart]

Problem with Humiliation training :

 

[Klausus]

the resets are SUPER annoying. just when i get some control and start gewtting farmers for area two it just resets me for i have comleted the achivement that gives you lvl 3 instantly.....

It has been asked before to add a sandbox mode. I think it's a great idea and i will eventually add it. But i want to add all game mechanics i wanted in the game first.

I have played through v2 and the loyalty mechanic is much better. A few things I have noticed with the system, the loyalty achievement rewards is now mostly useless. The 50 loyalty only works if you have a male subject at the start of the area and if you move him into the gang or lose him the loyalty will reset when you get your next person. You could probably change it to a 5 or 10 cap increase.

Yeah, i must change many of the achievements. But i want to fix some other stuff first. It's really not high priority atm.
That loyalty is deactivated is intended, since when there is no one, there is no loyalty. Someone else said that and i think he is right. I also found some other small issues with loyalty and willl fix them.
Iam aware with the problem of loyalty and the gang. In the next update, soldiers from the gang will count as everyone else. Meaning they may desert and will consume food.

A few comments about the area system too. The first area is now almost completely useless. The new focuses mean even a brand new character can max out their stamina near instantly and get started on building an actual settlement. It might be better to just start on area 2.
Also either some of the grind could be shortened or the area timescales increased because it always seems that most of my time is just spent clicking through waiting for either gold or prisoner training and as soon as I really start going the area ends and I move on. Maybe rather than doing one thing in a settlement and moving on there could be multiple main objectives such as combining the farm and village quests into one area.

Yes, i have too rework the missions, especially the first one is just boring grind. I will make them more interesting, but also not top priority. First thing is improve the food system and deal with fear.
I also want to change the reward mechanics for the missions, both to make them more interesting for the player and easier for me to integrate/modify.

 

[biohazard1453]

That loyalty is deactivated is intended, since when there is no one, there is no loyalty. Someone else said that and i think he is right. I also found some other small issues with loyalty and willl fix them.

Yeah I am aware of that and actually like that change. I was just pointing out that it conflicts with the achievement award. The bonus is only added at the absolute beginning of the area and thus is lost if you don't have loyalty active then.

 

[EPGerhart]

The first stage is still useful for getting experience for your gang so that scouting is more effective in the second stage.

You'll probably have to boost food production if you make the gang consume food. It might also change my strategy about how I level them up. Originally I was mostly choosing "Regulars" as I wanted to maximize the benefits of them not counting, but if changed I might make them all elites instead.

I still can't beat the last level requirement of 5 pets, even if I put my focus on training.
I think that's the "Bossman" achivement ?
Not enough pets means I can't get the "Master" achievement.
I've tried for the "strong seed" achievement but didn't actually get very close.
The science achievements seem particularly difficult because the lab comes on late and the scientists are so expensive and I'm always short female scientists.

 

[Klausus]

You'll probably have to boost food production if you make the gang consume food.

We have to see when all changes are made, but it depends on the new settings of the first mission. Going communism or Leadership can help with that too. When missions are changed, the player should be able to adapt communism in the first mission, and if not, than in the second mission.

It might also change my strategy about how I level them up. Originally I was mostly choosing "Regulars" as I wanted to maximize the benefits of them not counting, but if changed I might make them all elites instead.

Terror and patrol is good too, since it boosts scouting. Since there is no combat yet, the other skills don't matter.
Basically, more soldiers mean more loot, but a higher scouting skill means better chances to find better places and get events.

I still can't beat the last level requirement of 5 pets, even if I put my focus on training.
I think that's the "Bossman" achivement ?
Not enough pets means I can't get the "Master" achievement.
I've tried for the "strong seed" achievement but didn't actually get very close.
The science achievements seem particularly difficult because the lab comes on late and the scientists are so expensive and I'm always short female scientists.

Strong seed doesn't lead anywhere yet. The plan is, that when you advance in game, at some point your children are grown and you can recruit them. Daughters can easily be trained to get any job and are the only ones who can become nurses (plus other advantages). Sons are just goons. With "unnatural" selection, you change the odds to only have daughters.

I can't really give you any tips for the other stuff, since i changed so much, that many strateies are obsolete.

Atm iam at the food-fear-escape mechanics, food is more or less finished and i have done a great deal for fear. But i still have to do some work there and do some testing before the next release.
But that will change the gameplay again quite a bit.

 

[EPGerhart]

Going communism or Leadership can help with that too.

I've been on leadership and run into the problem that I run a food deficit even when the greenhouse/farm are fully upgraded and farm whores fully staffed if I'm trying to staff everything else as well. I can only make up the deficit by patrolling heavily, wich doesn't leave much time for other things. This will be exacerbated if the gang also consumes food

May I suggest a radio-button select for the prison to instruct your wardens what kind of prisoner education to try for ? No guarantee, obviously, the prisoner might always come out of the experience as something else, but it might help the problem of needing a particular type of female subject. Maybe even more than one prisoner trained per week (as right now even with maxed staff, I've never seen more than one prisoner a week re-educated).

 

[Klausus]

I've been on leadership and run into the problem that I run a food deficit even when the greenhouse/farm are fully upgraded and farm whores fully staffed if I'm trying to staff everything else as well. I can only make up the deficit by patrolling heavily, wich doesn't leave much time for other things. This will be exacerbated if the gang also consumes food

It's simple, don't staff everything. Only staff what you can afford and/or need.
Once you have fertiliser, produce increases A LOT, especially from the farm.
Not implemented yet, but there will be another building giving food, the port. But port wouldn't be available in the first missions anyway.

May I suggest a radio-button select for the prison to instruct your wardens what kind of prisoner education to try for ? No guarantee, obviously, the prisoner might always come out of the experience as something else, but it might help the problem of needing a particular type of female subject. Maybe even more than one prisoner trained per week (as right now even with maxed staff, I've never seen more than one prisoner a week re-educated).

I rather wait with changes like that. Not all buildings have events yet (f.e. watchtower) and some buildings and mechanics are still missing. For example the, when you can recruit your own children, you will have great control over what to get.
As for now, you can have a pretty decent control over the outcomes with training, depending on what kind of training you use, the training focus and with drugs.
Missions (and achievements) also help with that, since i can give the player f.e. a female warden each area. And with a female warden right from the beginning, you have huge advantages and all other types are way easier to get.
I also have to balance the training a little better, but that can only be done when i finished the stuff iam working on right now.

When that all is done and it is still too hard to get what you need to complete a mission, then i may add such changes.

 

[EPGerhart]

It's simple, don't staff everything.

I reassign all the training officers (save 1, I need him for council government type) once the second squad is fully trained.
I'm reluctant to reassign the wardens, because
a) they were expensive to assign
b) the scientists I want to reassign them as are even MORE expensive.
c) I still need female wardens (only once have I gotten a full staff and I had to save-scum to do that).

A less than fully staffed prison or lab don't seem to produce much.
The village doesn't seem to suffer from this effect, it seems pretty linear.
It is one thing (besides training) I can usually cut back on

Once you have fertiliser, produce increases A LOT, especially from the farm.

I've never gotten beyond level 1 tools / level 1 fertilizer

... there will be another building giving food, the port.

Will the port let you trade money for food and/or building materials ?
Will the port let you trade building materials for money and/or food ?

As for now, you can have a pretty decent control over the outcomes with training, depending on what kind of training you use, the training focus and with drugs.

I've never had more than one drug available. The success rate of trainings other than gangbang seem too low, even with a fully staffed prison. Perhaps your definition of "pretty decent" and my definition differ.

Missions (and achievements) also help with that, since i can give the player f.e. a female warden each area. And with a female warden right from the beginning, you have huge advantages and all other types are way easier to get.\

That's the "disciplinarian" achievement, correct ? I've got that, it gives ONE female warden. I'm not sure what 'each area' means. Do you mean in each stage ?. I'll keep better track of how long it takes her to produce something, but it seems to not be much until the prison is fully upgraded.

When that all is done and it is still too hard to get what you need to complete a mission, then i may add such changes.

Good luck. I'll make another attempt at the science achievements.