120 Days of Sodom is a story/novel originally written by the Marquis de Sade, so...the heaviness is kind of a given.
Can we improve the story telling in porn games?
- Thread starter GuyFreely
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- Aug 9, 2017
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And the film was directed by Pasolini, well-respected director, poet and writer.
- Jul 10, 2017
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Not really saying you grow wise with age. But when making a story and creating character interactions/relations etc. It help if you been knocked down a few times and got some baggage to drag around. Walk of life is an experience you don't find in any books.
- Nov 16, 2017
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While I do agree that there are a large chunk of folks looking for just a game with porn, maybe just a tiny bit of story, but the porn is more important... I firmly believe the majority are looking for more then just some fast moving masturbation material... The problem you run into, is that the high porn readers/players just have a tendency to be more vocal in public spaces like these... A vast majority of readers/players never speak up at all, either out of no desire to do so, or because they want to keep their desires, fetishes, and private thoughts to themselves and away from public scrutiny/eyes... But I believe the numbers of folks wanting more then just plain ole porn videos or b-rated porn fest movies, make up the larger chunk of readers/players of these things, then those who just want to get their jollies and move on... There are many various reasons why people are flocking to Erotic/Adult/Porn Visual Novels and/or Games...
I've said this a lot in other threads... I believe there are a vast many of us, looking more for entertainment value, that just so happens to include erotic/adult themes or content... For most folks, although they are not as vocal about it, they want a well crafted, unique, story/plot driven, visual novel and/or game that is fun to read/play while also including the sexy bits that ADD to the entertainment value, rather then being the only entertainment value... Poorly written and/or designed erotic/adult/porn VN/Games, are like watching a typical real life porn movie, with horrible acting, a story/plot that is super dumb/confusing and/or barely exists, repetitive visuals, over the top, etc... And I've said this many times, if I wanted to just hop on my computer and find something I can masturbate to, real quick, there are literally millions of porn videos I could go find, that include any number of fetishes... But in the case of VN/Games, for most folks it is more about the well developed entertainment, coupled with erotic shit, that the vast majority of readers/players want... You just don't get as many of those folks speaking up about it... Instead you get the "more porn less text" posters who need to get their masturbation fix, ASAP, whom are more willing to speak their minds about it, because they need their fix... Almost like a drug addict who needs and focuses on their need for a high, more so then the journey...
Zip
- Nov 16, 2017
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The biggest issue when seeking feedback, regardless if it's negative or positive, is that this is the internet... A majority of readers/players never even talk in public spaces like this one and others... Instead, you only get a small sampling of the overall readers/players that decide to even say anything, from which to base any kind of data gathering... And the types of people responding and the numbers of people who even decide to respond, can change from day to day, week to week, hour to hour, etc... You have those folks, like myself, who sometimes tend to check varying types of VN/Games here and there (regardless if it's something they would normally try) and report their opinions from an objective viewpoint... Or you may get folks who have a very specific list of things they are looking for and it just so happened your product fell into their search/orbit that day and either met their strict expectations or not... It's also possible, on a particular day, there was an influx of folks just browsing away, when your product caught their eye, for whatever reason/s, and they liked it or didn't... Or perhaps someone just wanted to masturbate to something that day, tried your product, and either they got their expected jollies in the time they wanted, or they didn't, so they give a quick 5 star or 1 star rating based on meeting their immediate needs, in a timely manner or not... And then, maybe they were just looking for some specific visuals to masturbate to, regardless of the text, and either it met their needs or not... The list goes on and on... You can never satisfy everyone's needs across the board... But depending on your project and how well it's developed, you can possibly maximize the number of players/readers, again depending on what you're trying to achieve with your project... And, all of this, may either be reflected in the feedback you get, or you may never hear from a majority of your players/readers at all... It can be a bit hard, somethings, to wrap your mind around an ever changing and complex public, when it comes to getting feedback on any given project...
Best bet is to do it how you want to do it, only taking in feedback as you see fit to take it in, and don't let it effect your creativity too much, if at all (it's always up to you as the developer)... If it bombs in the end, at least you've learned some stuff by doing it... Just pick yourself up, and keep on trucking along... If it is a success, you will still of learned some stuff along the way... Either continue on to the next project, or be happy with your success and do the next thing that tickles your fancy... It gives experience by just doing it, takes talent that is either inherent or gained through experience/learning, takes skill that can be learned through experience and/or being taught by others, and/or can improve through cooperation (by working with others and learning from and/or teaching each other over the course of an experience)…
Sorry if that all sounds confusing... I may have been rather deep on my thinking of this one, as I responded...
Zip
- Aug 30, 2017
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There's absolutely a point in which incomprehensible English can ruin a game, but you're nowhere near it. There are errors and obvious non-native phrasings in your post, but if this message is representative of your capabilities you'll never have any problem getting every bit of your story across to the player.
And if you need to express something that requires more subtlety, there are always editors. Many of whom will volunteer those edits via feedback...here, on Patreon, or wherever.
Absolutely. I don't write games, but I do write very long-form erotic fiction, and after several passes through an establishing outline (which is never set in stone) I just go ahead and write. I'll give each chapter two or three passes, usually in an accordion fashion (5000 words, rewrite, another 5000 words, rewrite, etc., followed by one more top-to-bottom editing pass), but then I'll leave everything alone and in the rearview mirror until the entire story is done. By the time you come back to something you thought was perfect three months ago with fresh eyes — and, just as importantly, fresh eyes that know what's coming and what you can/can't/should/shouldn't foreshadow — it's a lot easier to see what just doesn't work, but also what needs emphasis.
As for the original post, I think the biggest issue is that it's difficult for many to decouple the fundamental function of adult games from the fundamental function of porn. The vast majority of porn features only one plot: "1) we're thinking about fucking/have a reason to fuck/are given an opportunity to fuck; 2) we fuck." Even most niche porn, like BDSM, is just pre-interview/scene/post-interview rather than a plotted scenario. It's very tempting, and probably not unrewarded, to make "1) want to fuck; 2) fuck" the plot of a game, VN, or whatever else. But as so many have said here and elsewhere, if that's all we want we should be watching porn because it's far more efficient in its aims and its execution. Games offer an opportunity to get there via a different, more interactive, and more complex path.
And yet, there are recent threads in this very forum in which people are complaining that they start games "with my dick in my hand, ready to fap" (I mean, does that include while you're adjusting your music/text speed preferences and entering the MC's name? I'm sure there are people who like to slide those controls left and right while fapping — Rule 34, after all — but c'mon) and don't want to see any text get in the way of bewbz and "content." As long as that cohort has power — economic, pirating/commenting/complaining, or otherwise — it will always require extra effort and commitment to attempt an actual story.
I'm repeating myself from other threads in this forum, but for me a narrative is always about "why?" and "what then?" Even aside from a more complex setting and background, in a sex game it also needs to revolve around the core differentiator (because these are, after all, sex games): why is the sex happening, and why do I (the player) want it to happen? Why do I want to fuck my sister/roommate/secretary/hamster? Why would she/it want to fuck me? What happens when if we do? What happens if I want to and she/it doesn't, or vice-versa? If those questions can be answered, then there's a basis for the gameplay questions: how am I going to fuck my sister/roommate/secretary/hamster? Nearly every awful, story-free game gets the latter wrong because it never tried to answer the former.
- Jul 10, 2017
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When you say they are after all, sex games. That's not always true. Like when some creator says "creating adult game", and then release his/hers first release with people lashing on like crazy ranting about lack of something to fap too. An adult game isn't always the same as a "porn" game though.
I enjoy a good story with a believable narrative and characters. If it got a slow build up and the actual "sex" part play more backseat to the story, I don't really mind that so much. If flashes of nudity (teasers), is situational based on real daily activities even better. Many games your introduction to "skin" come from peeping on someone in the shower/bathroom, or when sleeping etc, which is more a cliche.
The biggest sexual organ humans got is between their ears, not between their legs after all
- Aug 30, 2017
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Oh, I agree that it's better when they aspire to more. But it's specifically the sex where the narrative logic in these games so often breaks down. Change in a work situation? Explained in the text. Change of housing? Explained in the prologue. Why is this cute young blonde that's half my age suddenly my roommate? Explained in the first forty or so frames. Why she'd be interested in giving me a blowjob? Explained almost exclusively by the fact that it's a game that will have sex in it, and so here it is.
That's one problem with not developing the character and backstory of the female characters in these games. Why would they be interested in the MC? What motivates them? What are they looking for, what are their needs and drives? Etc.
- Jul 10, 2017
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A huge flagpole dick that rip them in part right? (ironic). Worst writing ever
Myself I find that not enough people will play my game in closed beta enough to give me good feedback about dialogue or story. It's hard to find testers that may be invested enough to make long remarks about the story (and not about non-native english problems.. xD)
So I guess game is just to go release on Steam early access without a proper dialogue revision with players about what is best and what needs to get better in the story.
tldr: Not only gameplay needs betatesting, Story too.
PS: I'm sure some creators don't mind their story is silly. Some stories are well being silly. Some others, don't, specially if they're trying to explain difficult things to explain and trying to stay realistic.
So I guess game is just to go release on Steam early access without a proper dialogue revision with players about what is best and what needs to get better in the story.
tldr: Not only gameplay needs betatesting, Story too.
PS: I'm sure some creators don't mind their story is silly. Some stories are well being silly. Some others, don't, specially if they're trying to explain difficult things to explain and trying to stay realistic.
- May 2, 2018
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I do see this happen as well. I touched on it a little bit in the thread about games being rapey. In my mind, you have to give at least as much thought to what amounts to sexual assault as you do to bodily injury. If your character gets shot, you can't just ignore that fact in the next scene. It doesn't have to be realistic necessarily, it's fiction, but you can't just pretend like nothing happened. It's sort of feels like some people think the sex is a given, so you don't have to spend much time on it.
Clearly, he has the biggest dick they've ever seen. Joking aside, this is a great area for improvement in many games. A believable reason the woman would bang you. If you can't manage a believable one, I'll settle for an unbelievable one that makes sense in the context of the game.
You stole my line while I was typing a response.A huge flagpole dick that rip them in part right? (ironic). Worst writing ever
Again, I don't want to spend too much time on specific problem areas here. Suffice it to say that everything that happens in a story should happen for a reason. There should be motivation behind characters actions, even if it is flawed. There should also be consequences to everything that happens. And when I say everything, let's not be pedantic, I am talking about story elements.
- Jul 10, 2017
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Have you made your game available for beta testing anywhere? Shouldn't be to hard to get players to beta test it or review it for the sake of story.
It's okay if the story and writing is silly when that is the premise of the game. A silly game. It's worse if the story supposed to be like serious, rl like, etc. Then it become cringe worthy.
IMO, for those who believe that the writing in porn games is often bad (I agree), the best way to see it improve is to write a porn game yourself and post it (which is what I did). I don't mean that in the sense of "write your own game, you critical jerk" but, rather, in the sense of "create something which raises the standard of writing". (If you can.)
- Jul 10, 2017
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So much this in regard of consequence of actions. Every action got a reaction. The "jealousy" factor alone is ignored at great length in all these "harem" like games. It turn into some sort absurd version of "sister wives "like cluster fuck without all the emotions.
- May 2, 2018
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Since I'm the OP, I'll say that I am or at least making an attempt. I'm just a chronic procrastinator and I've got a lot of other things that take up my time.IMO, for those who believe that the writing in porn games is often bad (I agree), the best way to see it improve is to write a porn game yourself and post it (which is what I did). I don't mean that in the sense of "write your own game, you critical jerk" but, rather, in the sense of "create something which raises the standard of writing". (If you can.)
I offer from time to time keys to play (and own it) but I get one person interested of every one hundred. And from them, you can get all the feedback you can, but you cannot ask for an eassy about how can be improved. (Anthem/FO76 could had use some of that, at least they should had paid testers...)
It's only when you have a public release and thousands of people had already played that you can expect to get some specific feedback, just statistically speaking.
I will say that many of the scenarios presented in games are at best highly unlikely to occur IRL. So when I talk about providing plausible motivations or rationales for stuff to happen, I mean that in the same sense that John Wick's actions and motives are understandable/plausible in the setting he's in. One guy wiping out dozens effortlessly is about a 1 in a million probability(or higher) in real life, and one guy assembling a large stable harem of devoted hot babes(including all members of their own family) is similarly extraordinarily unlikely. You just have to come up with something remotely plausible within the context of the game world. Mom should have more qualms about incest than she does about cheating on her diet, but she doesn't have to accurately reflect what might happen in the real world. More like what you might see in a telenovela, soap opera or raunchy sex comedy. But do at least make that minimal effort!
"Be the change that you wish to see in the world."
- Mahatma Gandhi
If you want better writing in porn games, I really suggest you start writing your own porn games and raise the bar. Or offer your writing services to an existing game that you think you could improve.
I think most porn games have three main components: Writing, visuals, and programming. Finding someone that is good at all three AND has the time to dedicate to making a game is very difficult. Most devs are one person operations, which makes things even more difficult. For devs, it's a balance and writing doesn't come naturally to a lot of people or is just last on the list of things they are focused on. I tend to think that the well written games are the ones that last a long time and thrive anyway and the ones that are bad don't get the financial support and the dev quits anyway. Natural selection of the game dev world.