Can we improve the story telling in porn games?

[SeventhVixen]

I'm of the group of people that If I don't like the story I'll not play it even for the fucks. Only reason I could skip text if I'm already give up with the game and just wanna take a look at what's ahead, but that means when I quit the game I'll never download it again.

That's what make me sad of some games, that have poor story writting at the beginning. Luckly that poor writting on the start only stands 10 or 20 minutes. Usually the dev gets better later, but doesn't fix the start of the game, and the start of the game it's the most important thing in order to hook players. It's like books, you got to wanna keep reading from first page.

Unless is a mindless fuck or heavy gameplay freeroam driving, you're on for a long ride of reading.

 

[Grape Juice]

That's one problem with not developing the character and backstory of the female characters in these games. Why would they be interested in the MC? What motivates them? What are they looking for, what are their needs and drives? Etc.

So what you are saying is: we need feminism in porn? ok, i'm not even joking, i really think that if people who actually care about their female characters wrote porn games, the quality would drastically improve.
Also these self insert protagonists could stop existing.

Didn't play Being a DIK yet, but I sometimes get the same feeling when playing Melody.

All that talk about music is not really that interesting to me.
Compared to DMD, the story in Melody is better but I tend to skip less in DMD than I like to do in Melody because in DMD the talk is more relationship (and therefore sex) oriented.

On the other hand, there are also games where the story is not really the pivotal part of the sex, but where I personally still find the story interesting enough on it's own. I guess that's personal preference and it can work out well or not so well for any player.

In the end, if it is only about the sex, then it would just be two nameless CG's fucking. If it's about the story, then the CG's would have memorable names and backgrounds so that we would actually care about them doing whatever they do. That makes the sex scenes much more interesting, so we come back full-circle. So the sex and the story should support each other. There can be (large even) aspects of the story which are outside the sex-related part of the story, but then it depends on the player whether he is interested in that story or not.

i downloaded Being a DIK today and played through the Intro and immediately lost interest.
for the same reason i don't like melody and acting lessons and dating my daughter and all these 3DCG type games set in modern time: the writing is not per-se bad. i just cringe out of my skull reading them. like, these people making these games can write dialogue, but it's just so vapid and trivial. Oh no, these OH SO RELATABLE 18 y/o stock models have unexciting lifes and sometime they even fuck each other...
WHY should i care? i mean it's not often i point to Campbells twelve steps, but please can we have some kind of journey going on in these games.
As terrible as the writing is in Dreams of Desire, like it's abysmal, at least there was some kind of mystery going on, something to hold my attention throughout playing the game. that's why i enjoyed the game even if it was terrible.

But you know. if you want actually good writing and storytelling, just play The Last Sovereign. it may not have pretty pictures, but it beats every other porn game i played thus far.

 

[Hadley]

The most important point is that you build up a believable relationship between two characters. Often times Characters just act super weird and illogical, just so the Game can get to the Sex-Scene more quickly. Often times less is more, there doesn't need to be a Sex-Scene every 10 minutes. I wish Games would take more time to build up Relationships, especially in Incest-Games.

 

[GuyFreely]

There is definitely a balance to be struck between establishing relationships and blue balling the player. The pace of the game is something the writer has to determine for themselves. It's very easy to jump to sex too quickly or to drag it out for too long. Obviously, a lot of this comes down to individual player's preferences and tolerances. It can also be dependent on the type of relationship. Two people can meet at a bar and have a one night stand without having to establish much of a relationship. If the MC is going to fuck a family member, or a teacher, or a boss then you might need to ease into that. There are ways to jump start even these types of relationships. They might seem contrived if you try to get there too quickly though.

 

[HopesGaming]

It also depends very much on the style of the game.

If the premise of the story is very sexual focused then lack of sex is an issue and feels like a drag.
(Any games where the initial goal is getting laid, where the story is secondary and just a tool to progress relationships, silly stories, guy moves into home with beautiful girls, etc.)

If the premise of the story is more story focused (non-sex related) or if it is heavy character focused then too fast sex could ruin the game.

The issues arise when A) players expect all games to follow the same sexual progress road or B) devs do not follow through their set goal of when the heavy sexual stuff appears due to pressure from the few people at bracket A.

 

[Joshua Tree]

The most important point is that you build up a believable relationship between two characters. Often times Characters just act super weird and illogical, just so the Game can get to the Sex-Scene more quickly. Often times less is more, there doesn't need to be a Sex-Scene every 10 minutes. I wish Games would take more time to build up Relationships, especially in Incest-Games.

More than often a good build up is better than the conclusion to put it like that.

 

[Conviction07]

Right now I’m in the planning phase for a sequel to a game that just ended, and the most exciting thing is that the whole “origin story” of the characters taboo relationship is out of the way. Now the story can be more focused on the aftermath and consequences of what they did, while still fighting their temptations, instead of trying to believably write how it begins. Which is something I’m not sure an incest game has done before.

 

[Zippity]

I don't really want to delve into specific games/VNs and if they are good or bad at storytelling. There are other places to talk about specific games. Fundamentally, I think if you are skipping all the dialogue and story to get to the sex something went wrong. (Obviously, if you do this all the time, that's different.) At a very high level, it tells me you don't care about the story. Now there are any number of reasons this may be true, and not all of them are the dev's fault. What I'm hoping we can start to avoid are things like characters that aren't fleshed out and plots that don't make sense. A story can be perfectly well written and you still don't like it, that's a separate issue.

To your point on skipping... Over the years I've noticed that many of the folks who do the skipping of text to get to the sexy bits, were usually not even interested in the story or text anyways... They just wanted sexy visuals and sexy scenes/events to get their jollies with... I've played VN/Games that had excellent story telling, and yet in the forums threads you still had folks claiming they skipped the text, as that is not what interested them at all... In the end, no matter how good the story is, or how well balanced the sexy bits are with the story bits, you will always have a section of folks who skip the text anyways... Some even complain when they have to skip the text for too long, which always boggles my mind... If someone doesn't want to read stuff in a visual novel and/or story based game, why not just go find some real porn to watch or play one of the many porn fest focused grinders available...

Hell, I've even noticed a recent trend, where some people have taken some of these VN/Games and posted play throughs, as videos, on sites like Pornhub and even YouTube… So then you can just skip through the video to the parts you want to get off to, if that is your thing... Found that out when I was Googling specific VN/Games the other day...

Zip

 

[Joshua Tree]

To your point on skipping... Over the years I've noticed that many of the folks who do the skipping of text to get to the sexy bits, were usually not even interested in the story or text anyways... They just wanted sexy visuals and sexy scenes/events to get their jollies with... I've played VN/Games that had excellent story telling, and yet in the forums threads you still had folks claiming they skipped the text, as that is not what interested them at all... In the end, no matter how good the story is, or how well balanced the sexy bits are with the story bits, you will always have a section of folks who skip the text anyways... Some even complain when they have to skip the text for too long, which always boggles my mind... If someone doesn't want to read stuff in a visual novel and/or story based game, why not just go find some real porn to watch or play one of the many porn fest focused grinders available...

Hell, I've even noticed a recent trend, where some people have taken some of these VN/Games and posted play throughs, as videos, on sites like Pornhub and even YouTube… So then you can just skip through the video to the parts you want to get off to, if that is your thing... Found that out when I was Googling specific VN/Games the other day...

Zip

The same when they complain the update is TO SHORT, and then they skipped 90% of the actual content to watch the images

 

[215303j]

To your point on skipping... Over the years I've noticed that many of the folks who do the skipping of text to get to the sexy bits, were usually not even interested in the story or text anyways... They just wanted sexy visuals and sexy scenes/events to get their jollies with...

That's probably true, but it is also what @Grape Juice said: why should I care about X getting fucked by Y? I think the key of good erotic writing comes down to answering that question. If you (the player) doesn't care, then the writing failed it's purpose.

Like I tried to say earlier, of course everybody likes different things so it's also about personal preference. But I think that in general, a wall of text does not equal good or effective writing.

 

[Joshua Tree]

That's probably true, but it is also what @Grape Juice said: why should I care about X getting fucked by Y? I think the key of good erotic writing comes down to answering that question. If you (the player) doesn't care, then the writing failed it's purpose.

Like I tried to say earlier, of course everybody likes different things so it's also about personal preference. But I think that in general, a wall of text does not equal good or effective writing.

That like one of those old side scrollers, where you can't really control anything than just move in one direction and plow whatever come along. A lot of these games offer up girl characters as little more than just more meat to put on the slab.

The game/story become very shallow when the purpose for the protag to have sex with someone is just because they are there. Quite a few games out there that get pro longed by just keep throw in new characters to plow.

 

[215303j]

@Joshua Tree you misunderstood. It's actually the opposite. In such a sidescroller, why X is getting fucked by Y isn't even answered, much less why the player should care about that, beyond looking at CG porn.

In a well written immersive story the player / reader will actually care about the MC and will feel invested enough to make the "right" choice. Example: in Our Fate, I could not play the corruption or domination routes because I care too much about the girl for her to get corrupted, even though she's just a character in a VN. Some other stories in other games are not that interesting story-wise (i.e. you care less about the characters), but still entertaining enough, e.g. by use of humor. Others are downright boring in certain parts, but that's up to the beholder / personal preference of the player of course.

 

[Joshua Tree]

@Joshua Tree you misunderstood. It's actually the opposite. In such a sidescroller, why X is getting fucked by Y isn't even answered, much less why the player should care about that, beyond looking at CG porn.

In a well written immersive story the player / reader will actually care about the MC and will feel invested enough to make the "right" choice. Example: in Our Fate, I could not play the corruption or domination routes because I care too much about the girl for her to get corrupted, even though she's just a character in a VN. Some other stories in other games are not that interesting story-wise (i.e. you care less about the characters), but still entertaining enough, e.g. by use of humor. Others are downright boring in certain parts, but that's up to the beholder / personal preference of the player of course.

Yeah but there is games where you got no choice what so ever. Hence the sidescroller comment. You just have to take it. Not all games have such options as in "Our Fate" though, or much of choice if any at all. Imho there is different views and approaches to corruption though. I loathe games where you use corruption as a way to turn someone into a total slut etc. But games where you can slowly corrupt someone towards something consensual. Maybe corruption is the wrong word, liberate maybe, idk. Also, not many games at the levels where you end up care somewhat for the characters in it though. This is where a good game stand out from an average (or bad) one. Because you as an player get sucked into the story. Immersed if you want.

 

[desmosome]

The most important point is that you build up a believable relationship between two characters. Often times Characters just act super weird and illogical, just so the Game can get to the Sex-Scene more quickly. Often times less is more, there doesn't need to be a Sex-Scene every 10 minutes. I wish Games would take more time to build up Relationships, especially in Incest-Games.

Not having sex early can be even more illogical and weird in many cases. You meet a girl in the club and bring her home. She goes "ohh.. I really like you so I will let you grope me for a bit, but no sex!" No.. no thats not how things work. You gona bang and then maybe take things from there if things work out.

What about a childhood friend you meet after being away for many years? You start talking and find out that you both had some feelings for each other before. You go drink at a bar and really hit it off. Go home for some netflix and chill. The atmosphere is thick and you fool around a bit. You bang.

If you want things to be realistic, there is nothing realistic about a girl thats willing to blow you but not have sex. Those are the exceptions, not the rule.

The choice for blue balling vs sex fest is not a question of realism, but mainly about the type of game the dev is going for.

 

[SeventhVixen]

Not having sex early can be even more illogical and weird in many cases. You meet a girl in the club and bring her home. She goes "ohh.. I really like you so I will let you grope me for a bit, but no sex!" No.. no thats not how things work. You gona bang and then maybe take things from there if things work out.

That's something that sometimes devs forget... that women generally wanna bang even more than males. They're just more selective.

 

[Zippity]

That's probably true, but it is also what @Grape Juice said: why should I care about X getting fucked by Y? I think the key of good erotic writing comes down to answering that question. If you (the player) doesn't care, then the writing failed it's purpose.

Like I tried to say earlier, of course everybody likes different things so it's also about personal preference. But I think that in general, a wall of text does not equal good or effective writing.

I've seen VN/Game with lots of text (wall of text) was written well... It just depends... It's usually the ill experienced writers that sometimes have a tendency to go a bit overboard when describing a situation and/or a characters background... It takes either practice and/or perhaps taking some live writing courses (not the online crap) to learn when too much information is too much, and when too little information is too little... Sometimes a wall of text can be told in a different way, so as to not seem so overwhelming... Again, it boils down to experience, raw talent, and/or skill... Most new developers of these things, have this tendency to be lacking most of those 3 keys writing elements to really be successful on that front... But they will never gain that experience if they don't just do it, and be willing to listen to criticism, without getting butthurt when it isn't all that positive...

Zip

 

[InfamousRebel]

I've started to write my first story, I already know I'm doing something wrong. I've actually paused the story so I can do more reading before more writing. I started to feel like I was getting a bit text heavy. This thread has helped me realize that I'm running before I can walk.

 

[Joshua Tree]

I've started to write my first story, I already know I'm doing something wrong. I've actually paused the story so I can do more reading before more writing. I started to feel like I was getting a bit text heavy. This thread has helped me realize that I'm running before I can walk.

I might be wrong, but writing a story that end up someone will play, or go through as a part of a VN/game with whatever interaction Vs read as just a story quite a different thing. Maybe it would be worth structure it more like a screenplay in terms of it end up sound good or whatnot?

 

[toolkitxx]

I've started to write my first story, I already know I'm doing something wrong. I've actually paused the story so I can do more reading before more writing. I started to feel like I was getting a bit text heavy. This thread has helped me realize that I'm running before I can walk.

Nothing bad or wrong with a lot of text - it might actually help you down the road to have more than you might actually use. In games (be it VN or others) you have extra methods and tools that partly eliminate some of your text. But if that text is actually important to describe what should happen in the game, who or what a person does etc that text is still part of your story but just gets displayed with a different method.
There is a good reason why people get educated in film and/or game making as you have to translate things differently into a visual medium. But yet - the most successful movie and game adaptations where often based on complete books

 

[Joshua Tree]

There is a good reason why people get educated in film and/or game making as you have to translate things differently into a visual medium. But yet - the most successful movie and game adaptations where often based on complete books

Ugh, so many good books that been ruined by awful screen adaptations.