alex2011

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Feb 28, 2017
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Also for CSDEV. I was just wondering, have you considered doing "unique" or like different demon lords you can choose at beginning of campaign. Like some might get a *small* bonus to one action over the others and then the default one. I know you can "create" any body technically so it is unneeded really, but would be kinda cool to choose between different Demonlord and they would get different minions like tentacle one would get tentacle minions to appeal to different people. Of course that does sound like a pain text wise though.
From what I can tell, the demon lord is never really defined as a separate being. The demon lord exists separately lore wise, but every time a description comes up, it is always while using a created body which can already serve the purpose you described depending on exactly what upgrades you give a commander body (not sure if the approach/meet interaction bodies are commanders or not, so I didn't describe them as commanders).

Also glad you got the distortion thing worked out.
 

Kaitol

Newbie
Jul 29, 2017
89
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So, one thing I've always wondered about and was recently reminded of, it's implied that a pregnancy between a Chosen and a Demon Lord is special, but you never get to see one come to fruition, because if the mother becomes a Forsaken it just turns into a regular demon, and if she's a sole survivor she gets neutralized. Is that ever intended to be expanded on or will it always stay a vague life-ending threat to horrify Chosen with?
 
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alex2011

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Feb 28, 2017
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So, one thing I've always wondered about and was recently reminded of, it's implied that a pregnancy between a Chosen and a Demon Lord is special, but you never get to see one come to fruition, because if the mother becomes a Forsaken it just turns into a regular demon, and if she's a sole survivor she gets neutralized. Is that ever intended to be expanded on or will it always stay a vague life-ending threat to horrify Chosen with?
If the mother doesn't become a Forsaken, the consequences are the military has the pregnancy aborted, killing the mother if necessary to abort the pregnancy. I actually had my aversion win with all three getting pregnant and turning on the military to prevent it, destroying military bases all the way up to the final battle to prevent the military getting to them. Then it was only a matter of winning the final battle, which was easy.

Impregnated Chosen have a scene where they basically panic about it that explains in their words what the military will do if they find out the Chosen are pregnant with the demon lord's child.

There's not much to expand on here, it would have to be rewritten so that either the military doesn't kill the pregnant Chosen or the demons born to Forsaken mothers would need a bit more writing and some gameplay mechanics to allow them to be anything other than lore.


It does make me wonder something about the developer's thoughts on the situation, though. CSdev At the point where they are basically already fighting their own side, would it not just be an instant win even without doing the final battle? Shouldn't that just automatically convert them on the day they turn against the military to protect their own lives? I know that might sound unbalanced, but it is already somewhat difficult to get their barrier down and impregnate them anyway, so maybe that can serve as the counter, the difficulty in getting them pregnant could make for an interesting win condition.
 
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Sinistrem

Member
Feb 18, 2018
193
399
How do forsaken damage bonuses work with multipliers?
I assume that both disgrace/reputation and expertise damage values are just multipliers (I.e. if you have x1.5 damage from disgrace and x1.5 damage from expertise it will result in 1.5*1.5=2.25 damage multi), but what about stuff like "+50% damage " from superior forsaken bonus or "+50% plea/inju" from negotiation distortion?

Are those extra multipliers like:

total_damage = disgrace_multi * expertise_multi * superior_multi * distortion_multi

or are they added like

total_damage = (disgrace_multi * expertise_multi) + superior_multi + negotiation_multi
 
Sep 10, 2019
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having scenes in the archive is great - now all I need is a cheat option that unlocks all of them for a saved set of chosen becasue I'm still way too dumb to play this game
 

Khaitoh

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2018
1,300
841
If the mother doesn't become a Forsaken, the consequences are the military has the pregnancy aborted, killing the mother if necessary to abort the pregnancy. I actually had my aversion win with all three getting pregnant and turning on the military to prevent it, destroying military bases all the way up to the final battle to prevent the military getting to them. Then it was only a matter of winning the final battle, which was easy.

Impregnated Chosen have a scene where they basically panic about it that explains in their words what the military will do if they find out the Chosen are pregnant with the demon lord's child.

There's not much to expand on here, it would have to be rewritten so that either the military doesn't kill the pregnant Chosen or the demons born to Forsaken mothers would need a bit more writing and some gameplay mechanics to allow them to be anything other than lore.


It does make me wonder something about the developer's thoughts on the situation, though. CSdev At the point where they are basically already fighting their own side, would it not just be an instant win even without doing the final battle? Shouldn't that just automatically convert them on the day they turn against the military to protect their own lives? I know that might sound unbalanced, but it is already somewhat difficult to get their barrier down and impregnate them anyway, so maybe that can serve as the counter, the difficulty in getting them pregnant could make for an interesting win condition.
I believe lore-wise is that, even if they do destroy their city's military, the other Chosen, specially the Superior Ones or that One Chosen who "appears" during the "event" when 2 Chosen became Forsaken and one dying, would kill them even if they haven't fallen yet if they intend to give birth to the demons. So why not just abort them then? what I think the plausible cause is that you can't unless you kill the mother. The biggest question still is, why does the Demon becomes a normal one after the mother Becomes Forsaken when they got Impregnated as a Chosen... Why did the change only happens on birth?
The most plausible reason I can think of is the Demon child "adapts" to whatever the Mother can take as a safe delivery thus somehow getting weaker after their Mothers become Forsaken.

Lore-wise, what I can think that could happen is, Demon Lord just "Captures" the 3 Chosens and make them breeding stocks, which will only make stronger Demons, which without the Commander upgrades should probably just be like a Normal Commander. Now, what would that put on the table? a Limited Number of Commanders per birth that has the base stats of one with at most 2 surround turn captures like a base commander with upgrade (without the other addons). What's different from it from a created Commander is they don't die the next day unless killed by the Chosen. Now, non-game mechanic-wise, you now have an Army of Demons that can surround the Chosen Ones into infinity and Beyond if one base commander with upgrades can catch and keep them surrounded for 2 turns, imagine getting them surround by groups of them, and an Orgy is guaranteed by the time the third one appears lol. But even with that, they still seem underwhelming to be a threat for the Chosen to be confined by the Military and all, Unless what they can give Birth is YOUR Perfect Demon Lord Body with all Suppresor, Defiler and Punisher upgrades in one which can capture a Chosen until they are a broken pile of used goods you can just kill which you can theoretically can do in the first place but just decided to make it fun and entertain yourself by corrupting the Chosens.

So yeah, the game is basically just you trying to corrupt the Chosen within 50 days, and failing just makes you jump in an parallel timeline to start over again since you ain't a sore loser who would just destroy the world thus having to face new Chosen with a Chance of facing the same ones. :HideThePain:
So yeah, basically the Demons born from a Chosen are just plot holes of the story, like how you restart from Scratch upon entering a new city.
Bet the Demon Lord, You, is also the one who informed people that a Demon and a Chosen's Baby would bring disaster to the world just for the lols when the Military turn against the Chosen, and vice versa.

Just started Loop 2 and now I'm in a dilemma on how to break their core vuls before Day 15 Event without breaking their Distortion Plan. I really think what makes this game hard is, in the way that the game tries to make this balanced by if one is weak against certain types, the other would be stronger, sometimes results in a combination where one can be easily re-surrounded, while others fail on getting enough trauma for the next one. So keeping them surrounded is the hardest part xD
Still, overcoming this is a worthy challenge! Or maybe not. It's complicated :HideThePain: (HELP!)
 
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Kaitol

Newbie
Jul 29, 2017
89
93
how to break their core vuls before Day 15 Event without breaking their Distortion Plan.
That's the fun part of distortions. You often can't. Out of like, six distortions so far only one had it line up to flub the interview. Basically you have to give up on hitting the milestones and have poor EE generation in return for only needing two T2 breaks to "beat" a girl. There are items that make it easier. A single negotiation or rampancy distortion can win you a run though even if you're completely incapable of hitting resolve normally, just have her kill whoever it makes her hate than exploit the distortion.
 

alex2011

Conversation Conqueror
Feb 28, 2017
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I believe lore-wise is that, even if they do destroy their city's military, the other Chosen, specially the Superior Ones or that One Chosen who "appears" during the "event" when 2 Chosen became Forsaken and one dying, would kill them even if they haven't fallen yet if they intend to give birth to the demons. So why not just abort them then? what I think the plausible cause is that you can't unless you kill the mother. The biggest question still is, why does the Demon becomes a normal one after the mother Becomes Forsaken when they got Impregnated as a Chosen... Why did the change only happens on birth?
The most plausible reason I can think of is the Demon child "adapts" to whatever the Mother can take as a safe delivery thus somehow getting weaker after their Mothers become Forsaken.

Just started Loop 2 and now I'm in a dilemma on how to break their core vuls before Day 15 Event without breaking their Distortion Plan. I really think what makes this game hard is, in the way that the game tries to make this balanced by if one is weak against certain types, the other would be stronger, sometimes results in a combination where one can be easily re-surrounded, while others fail on getting enough trauma for the next one. So keeping them surrounded is the hardest part xD
Still, overcoming this is a worthy challenge! Or maybe not. It's complicated :HideThePain: (HELP!)
That actually adds to the reasons to join the demon lord, not only is the military against the current loop's Chosen, but those Chosen would also be fighting other teams if they manage to survive long enough and I bet those other Chosen would come in increasingly stronger teams as each is beaten down until the pregnant ones are neutralized. As far as we know, the only one who can beat a Chosen besides another Chosen (this includes Forsaken) is the demon lord. From what I can tell, the pregnant Chosen are going off of instinct at that point, specifically survival and motherly instinct, which tells them to do whatever it takes to protect their child and themselves. At the point of pregnancy, at least the last time I managed it, they were already worn down to aversion distortion level with active distortions, so I don't know if they would have done the same with just being where they were on vulnerabilities without the distortion.

What distortion are you going for and what is the current vulnerability situation?
 

dekeche

Member
Aug 5, 2018
140
56
From what I can tell; it looks like what's going on with the pregnant chosen is that they fear being locked away and "put in cold storage" to prevent the fetus from growing. How I'm reading it is that the fetus grows more powerful by absorbing the chosen's power. Thus making it harder to terminate. So the reason the chosen are fighting the military is not because they have turned their back on humanity, but because they don't want to be imprisoned after the final battle.

However, that still leaves a plothole; what happens to the child for returning chosen? Are they still pregnnant, or did they manage to remove it somehow? And if they found a way to terminate it, why isn't the method more well known?
 

mathiau

Member
Aug 4, 2020
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229
However, that still leaves a plothole; what happens to the child for returning chosen? Are they still pregnnant, or did they manage to remove it somehow? And if they found a way to terminate it, why isn't the method more well known?
There's a (one line) scene were they imediately give birth to it because since they're no longer chosens their utero react normally to demonic gestation.
I don't think there's a payoff for the case where they survive the final battle with a T4 break yet
 

mathiau

Member
Aug 4, 2020
328
229
Been reading the flavour text of the items and...
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The earth is flat now?
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They have multiple moons???
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How does this interact with Rampant forsaken?
 
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dekeche

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Aug 5, 2018
140
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Been reading the flavour text of the items and...
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The earth is flat now?
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They have multiple moons???
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How does this interact with Rampant forsaken?
I think, rather than multiple moons, it sounds like outer space is in flux. So multiple people couldn't land on the same moon, because each mission would land on a separate instance of a moon.

As for the Psychometer; From looking at the decompiled files (and testing with cheats on), it would appear that it has no effect on rampagers - because they already cost a maximumn of 100 EE, without the Psychometer. When you have >100 EE, they still use your current EE to determine how powerful they are, but they don't cost any extra energy.
 
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alex2011

Conversation Conqueror
Feb 28, 2017
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From what I can tell; it looks like what's going on with the pregnant chosen is that they fear being locked away and "put in cold storage" to prevent the fetus from growing. How I'm reading it is that the fetus grows more powerful by absorbing the chosen's power. Thus making it harder to terminate. So the reason the chosen are fighting the military is not because they have turned their back on humanity, but because they don't want to be imprisoned after the final battle.

However, that still leaves a plothole; what happens to the child for returning chosen? Are they still pregnnant, or did they manage to remove it somehow? And if they found a way to terminate it, why isn't the method more well known?
That's the general fear of demon lord babies mothered by Chosen from what I can tell as well. It would probably be another thing entirely if the mother wasn't a Chosen.

The next part is what is odd, though. If they don't want to be imprisoned (normally neutralize means to kill when dealing with military or law enforcement, but I'll take it as meaning to lock up for the purposes of this discussion), then they have to destroy the military to some degree so that the military isn't able to imprison them. Destroying military bases would normally mark the pregnant Chosen as enemies of the side the military is on, though this does not seem to happen potentially because I do believe the military is never aware of who is attacking them and assumes it is the demon lord's forces.

Should the Chosen win against the demon lord, they still get locked up, so they still have to continue to fight the military to stay out of that, which could then mark them as enemies and get other Chosen teams sent after them since there would be no more demon lord to blame, it would automatically be the Chosen as prime suspects.

You're right, I've never lost a Chosen who survived the final battle after a known pregnancy, the only pregnancies I have encountered were on a triple aversion win.

There's a (one line) scene were they imediately give birth to it because since they're no longer chosens their utero react normally to demonic gestation.
I don't think there's a payoff for the case where they survive the final battle with a T4 break yet
Ah, good to know, so it does come up.
 
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Sonsuka

Member
Aug 29, 2017
186
64
Wait dang some of those items are crazy for early game EE gen. I thought the 10x trauma early game was busted, since it allowed easy 5 EE commander tier 2 breaks
 

Sinistrem

Member
Feb 18, 2018
193
399
I wish we had a shop of sorts between loops to buy items instead of being forced to take one based on the city. What if I like animalistic girls, but the item in their city is trash, so I'm forced to go to a city without them but with a good item.
 

alex2011

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Feb 28, 2017
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Wait dang some of those items are crazy for early game EE gen. I thought the 10x trauma early game was busted, since it allowed easy 5 EE commander tier 2 breaks
It really all depends on how quickly you get the vulnerabilities broken. The more you break as early as possible, the more EE generation you can get,

I wish we had a shop of sorts between loops to buy items instead of being forced to take one based on the city. What if I like animalistic girls, but the item in their city is trash, so I'm forced to go to a city without them but with a good item.
We would need a currency for that, perhaps EE could be used if it was expanded to account for what would be a new system.
 

Sinistrem

Member
Feb 18, 2018
193
399
We would need a currency for that, perhaps EE could be used if it was expanded to account for what would be a new system.
But we already have a currency called influence for items. You gain it every city you conquer, the amount based on difficulty(i.e. more if there are superior/animalistic chosen there). Depending on the amount of influence you have the game generates items every odd loop and it can't offer you the strongest items unless you were stockpiling on influence by choosing weak items on purpose.

The problem is, with how long every loop takes, a single item every other loop isn't particularly exciting, especially since you only get to choose 1 out of 2 and a good item can be in a city with chosen you don't want to fight (i.e. good item in a city with a superior chosen but I want to shop for a new pet in a city with an animalistic one).
 

alex2011

Conversation Conqueror
Feb 28, 2017
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But we already have a currency called influence for items. You gain it every city you conquer, the amount based on difficulty(i.e. more if there are superior/animalistic chosen there). Depending on the amount of influence you have the game generates items every odd loop and it can't offer you the strongest items unless you were stockpiling on influence by choosing weak items on purpose.

The problem is, with how long every loop takes, a single item every other loop isn't particularly exciting, especially since you only get to choose 1 out of 2 and a good item can be in a city with chosen you don't want to fight (i.e. good item in a city with a superior chosen but I want to shop for a new pet in a city with an animalistic one).
I didn't even realize I was using influence when getting items, I should probably pay closer attention. With that in mind, maybe reworking the current item system to be permanently available would do it.
 

Sonsuka

Member
Aug 29, 2017
186
64
The problem is, with how long every loop takes, a single item every other loop isn't particularly exciting, especially since you only get to choose 1 out of 2 and a good item can be in a city with chosen you don't want to fight (i.e. good item in a city with a superior chosen but I want to shop for a new pet in a city with an animalistic one).
^ Shop for a new pet in a city killed me lol.
 

alex2011

Conversation Conqueror
Feb 28, 2017
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So I've been thinking about this for a while, temptation and negotiation are obvious and so is rampancy, but what does it mean in terms of how the characters are feeling when they lose to aversion?

Basically, I have come to understand:

Negotiation is the Chosen slowly being convinced with reason that becomes increasingly hard to ignore as the meetings in the back alley and the final battle's appeal action go on.

Temptation is the same, but instead of reasoning, you give them something they begin to crave, hence the increasing debauchery of the tempt action.

Rampancy is setting them off so severely that their rage cannot die down, basically triggering them on an instinctual level. EDIT: I was severely mistaken, rampancy is a total psychotic breakdown that brings out the most sadistic personality possible.

But what actually does the aversion distortion do in universe? They basically go from avoiding and being traumatized by sexual contact to begging for it immediately as Forsaken to the point where they are already naked and masturbating any the time you meet with them.
 
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