Java Corrupted Saviors [Release 54] [CSDev]

[jaw_bone]

So. I have picked up the game again after a while. I remember nothing. Sorry in advance for the dumb questions.

I'm not trying to min-max at this point, but I do like optimising. So I'm trying to play 'sensibly', if there is such a thing in this game.

I am on Loop 2. I have never taken Forsaken training seriously before, and have never used Distortion plans. I'm trying to do both now. I did look through the guides included with the game, but they didn't answer all of my dumb questions. So here I am!

My first dumb questions:

1) Is it a bad idea to have all three Loop 2 Chosen on Distortion plans? Am I just setting myself up for failure when I get to the final battle (Day 47 in this city)?

2) It feels like Training days for Forsaken is a very bad idea at the start of a new loop, while still trying to break through the Chosen T1s. Is this correct?

 

[dekeche]

So. I have picked up the game again after a while. I remember nothing. Sorry in advance for the dumb questions.

I'm not trying to min-max at this point, but I do like optimising. So I'm trying to play 'sensibly', if there is such a thing in this game.

I am on Loop 2. I have never taken Forsaken training seriously before, and have never used Distortion plans. I'm trying to do both now. I did look through the guides included with the game, but they didn't answer all of my dumb questions. So here I am!

My first dumb questions:

1) Is it a bad idea to have all three Loop 2 Chosen on Distortion plans? Am I just setting myself up for failure when I get to the final battle (Day 47 in this city)?

2) It feels like Training days for Forsaken is a very bad idea at the start of a new loop, while still trying to break through the Chosen T1s. Is this correct?

1) Not necessarily, but it does depend on the distortions. Distortions that share a trait are typically easier, distortions that don't can be a lot harder. I typically try for only 2 distortions, leaving the third chosen as a wild card to help get orgies started. So doing 2 temp chosen, and 1 aversion is going to be a lot harder than just 1 temp, 1 aversion. Not impossible mind you, just difficult. I'll also add that there are some synergies when doing the same distortion on each chosen (such as negotiating with each chosen on the same day).

2) In most cases, Your probably right. I can think of one possible exception though; The Unicorn Lard Item yields +1 EE on days without a battle, and ensures that the next chosen will show in the next battle. So why not train a forsaken during your downtime?

 

[jaw_bone]

1) Not necessarily, but it does depend on the distortions. Distortions that share a trait are typically easier, distortions that don't can be a lot harder. I typically try for only 2 distortions, leaving the third chosen as a wild card to help get orgies started. So doing 2 temp chosen, and 1 aversion is going to be a lot harder than just 1 temp, 1 aversion. Not impossible mind you, just difficult. I'll also add that there are some synergies when doing the same distortion on each chosen (such as negotiating with each chosen on the same day).

2) In most cases, Your probably right. I can think of one possible exception though; The Unicorn Lard Item yields +1 EE on days without a battle, and ensures that the next chosen will show in the next battle. So why not train a forsaken during your downtime?

Thank you for replying!

So this is my current list of distortions. I have a different one set up on each one... I tried my best to not screw myself with minor/core breaks. It's the start of Day 16, and so far I've managed to avoid making anyone into friends (I'm trying to keep everyone rivals as much as possible):



Do you think it'd be worthwhile removing the plan from someone for the wildcard you suggested?

That suggestion about the Unicorn Lard sounds great, although I think it's too late to change the item for this loop. If I make it to Loop 3 I will change it... if I have it.

 

[dekeche]

If you are having difficulty, it might be worthwhile to drop the distortion on Moppet. Negotiation parse well with aversion or tempation, and I think Upgrade has a nice punisher ability, so it's worthwhile to keep them on a distortion path that minimizes their disgrace.

On the other hand, I do like having a low-cost tempt forsaken to throw at early game problems, so I think the increased difficulty is probably worth it in this case.

 

[McHuman]

So. I have picked up the game again after a while. I remember nothing. Sorry in advance for the dumb questions.

I'm not trying to min-max at this point, but I do like optimising. So I'm trying to play 'sensibly', if there is such a thing in this game.

I am on Loop 2. I have never taken Forsaken training seriously before, and have never used Distortion plans. I'm trying to do both now. I did look through the guides included with the game, but they didn't answer all of my dumb questions. So here I am!

My first dumb questions:

1) Is it a bad idea to have all three Loop 2 Chosen on Distortion plans? Am I just setting myself up for failure when I get to the final battle (Day 47 in this city)?

2) It feels like Training days for Forsaken is a very bad idea at the start of a new loop, while still trying to break through the Chosen T1s. Is this correct?

1) It's really a case by case situation, but no there is nothing inherently bad about doing distortions on all 3, it can just things a little complicated.

2) Training days are better more in the middle of a loop to skip days to build up EE when you lack the strength to make enough progress in building up trauma for T3 Breaks to make spending EE on a Commander/Forsaken worthwhile. Though in general you should really try to end a loop as soon as possible as you get a bunch of extra free days to train Forsaken if you end a loop early through Imago Quickening.

Thank you for replying!

So this is my current list of distortions. I have a different one set up on each one... I tried my best to not screw myself with minor/core breaks. It's the start of Day 16, and so far I've managed to avoid making anyone into friends (I'm trying to keep everyone rivals as much as possible):

View attachment 3076841

Do you think it'd be worthwhile removing the plan from someone for the wildcard you suggested?

That suggestion about the Unicorn Lard sounds great, although I think it's too late to change the item for this loop. If I make it to Loop 3 I will change it... if I have it.

With this set up removing a Distortion plan isn't necessary for the sake of Orgies, as every Chosen here is on a Distortion path that has overlapping breaks with another Chosen, so you can do Orgies just fine with this group. An important and non-intuitive note about Orgies is that the Orgy option is it's own separate Defiler that doesn't cause any breaks. So say you have Moppet on Force Orgasm and Shroud on Force Orgasm+, if you use Orgy on Upgrade that won't count as using Force Orgasm on her and thus wont cause a T2 INN Break. The only downside is the lack of an overlap in all 3 makes using Commanders with a Defiler become a complicated juggling act if you want to capture all 3 Chosen with it, as you risk doing too much damage and the Defiler triggering on the Chosen incompatible with that Break.

A note about items, you cant change your item after Day 1 of Loop 1, so you cant change it at the start of Loop 3. However, you do get a new item at the start of a loop starting from Loop 3 based on the Influence you get, which tl;dr Influence is one of the things listed when picking a city to go to, you get more loosely based on how difficult the city is, how much you have has some influence on what two item options you have when picking a city, you cant swap the item at the start of the loop unlike in Loop 1, but you can get Loop 1 later this way.

About Unicorn Lard, it's not really worth getting just for a little extra EE when training Forsaken. Unicorn Lard is only really useful in the early loops and tends to fall off in later loops when Damage Reduction and Preparedness is so high that skipping a day to train a Forsaken is not worth it. Not even the "Chosen arrive earlier" benefit from it is really worth it considering in later loops your Forsaken should be strong enough that with the starting EE from sacrifices you should be able to stall out the first day or two to force all the Chosen to show up right away.

Also just in general you don't want to use training that much on a Forsaken, just enough to get their corruption stats where you want them and to build enough expertise in the damage types you want them to target to get them close to shifting to that combat style. Any more training than that you and risk building corruption too high and weakening the Forsaken, later on you'll really be relying on assigning a Trainer Forsaken and setting your Forsaken on training plans in the combat style you want. In later loops outside of the free days at the end, the only reason you should be using training is to use Assist Raid or Grand Concert to build up ANGST on Chosen or restore Stamina/Motivation to your Forsaken, and even that should be done sparingly as again, in later loops you just don't have the time for that.

If you're considering resetting to change items at some point, I do have a small post broadly going over items here, though I'll admit it doesn't cover all the strengths and weaknesses of the items, like how Lard falls off in later loops due to Preparedness and strong Forsaken being able to force early Chosen arrivals, and how single use items are very strong in later loops due to being unaffected by Damage Reduction. The tl;dr of it though is that Tomorrow's Newspaper is the best item right now by a long shot (to put it into perspective, if you know what you're doing you can end Loop 1 on Day 30 with that item).

 

[jaw_bone]

If you are having difficulty, it might be worthwhile to drop the distortion on Moppet. Negotiation parse well with aversion or tempation, and I think Upgrade has a nice punisher ability, so it's worthwhile to keep them on a distortion path that minimizes their disgrace.

On the other hand, I do like having a low-cost tempt forsaken to throw at early game problems, so I think the increased difficulty is probably worth it in this case.

I was thinking either Moppet or Shroud. I just seem to having difficulties working with her without having a wall of red buttons cause I keep hitting 10k on the wrong things haha.

May just be a skill issue though, I'll play around with reloading to see what happens.

 

[jaw_bone]

1) It's really a case by case situation, but no there is nothing inherently bad about doing distortions on all 3, it can just things a little complicated.

2) Training days are better more in the middle of a loop to skip days to build up EE when you lack the strength to make enough progress in building up trauma for T3 Breaks to make spending EE on a Commander/Forsaken worthwhile. Though in general you should really try to end a loop as soon as possible as you get a bunch of extra free days to train Forsaken if you end a loop early through Imago Quickening.



With this set up removing a Distortion plan isn't necessary for the sake of Orgies, as every Chosen here is on a Distortion path that has overlapping breaks with another Chosen, so you can do Orgies just fine with this group. An important and non-intuitive note about Orgies is that the Orgy option is it's own separate Defiler that doesn't cause any breaks. So say you have Moppet on Force Orgasm and Shroud on Force Orgasm+, if you use Orgy on Upgrade that won't count as using Force Orgasm on her and thus wont cause a T2 INN Break. The only downside is the lack of an overlap in all 3 makes using Commanders with a Defiler become a complicated juggling act if you want to capture all 3 Chosen with it, as you risk doing too much damage and the Defiler triggering on the Chosen incompatible with that Break.

A note about items, you cant change your item after Day 1 of Loop 1, so you cant change it at the start of Loop 3. However, you do get a new item at the start of a loop starting from Loop 3 based on the Influence you get, which tl;dr Influence is one of the things listed when picking a city to go to, you get more loosely based on how difficult the city is, how much you have has some influence on what two item options you have when picking a city, you cant swap the item at the start of the loop unlike in Loop 1, but you can get Loop 1 later this way.

About Unicorn Lard, it's not really worth getting just for a little extra EE when training Forsaken. Unicorn Lard is only really useful in the early loops and tends to fall off in later loops when Damage Reduction and Preparedness is so high that skipping a day to train a Forsaken is not worth it. Not even the "Chosen arrive earlier" benefit from it is really worth it considering in later loops your Forsaken should be strong enough that with the starting EE from sacrifices you should be able to stall out the first day or two to force all the Chosen to show up right away.

Also just in general you don't want to use training that much on a Forsaken, just enough to get their corruption stats where you want them and to build enough expertise in the damage types you want them to target to get them close to shifting to that combat style. Any more training than that you and risk building corruption too high and weakening the Forsaken, later on you'll really be relying on assigning a Trainer Forsaken and setting your Forsaken on training plans in the combat style you want. In later loops outside of the free days at the end, the only reason you should be using training is to use Assist Raid or Grand Concert to build up ANGST on Chosen or restore Stamina/Motivation to your Forsaken, and even that should be done sparingly as again, in later loops you just don't have the time for that.

If you're considering resetting to change items at some point, I do have a small post broadly going over items here, though I'll admit it doesn't cover all the strengths and weaknesses of the items, like how Lard falls off in later loops due to Preparedness and strong Forsaken being able to force early Chosen arrivals, and how single use items are very strong in later loops due to being unaffected by Damage Reduction. The tl;dr of it though is that Tomorrow's Newspaper is the best item right now by a long shot (to put it into perspective, if you know what you're doing you can end Loop 1 on Day 30 with that item).

Thanks for putting all this together!

That's good to know about the use of Orgy, I'll try to remember this when I'm setting them up. I'm pretty good at getting two Chosen to the same T2 breaks, but still can't do it reliably with all three. Lots of replaying the same day at the moment.

Ahh good to know about changing items, thank you. I'm using Tomorrow's Newspaper, and to be honest I like having it, gives me a bit more confidence in unlocking things. If I start a new campaign I'll try out the Lard though, just to see it in action.

I'll be honest, I don't know if I'll ever sacrifice a Forsaken unless they are just unmanageable, only because I feel guilty about it lol. Here are the three Forsaken I got out of Loop 1 (I got full T4 breaks on all three of them which I was very proud of myself for doing ):

Spoiler: Forsaken

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I don't know what most of this means yet, I'm going through the training guide and probably will do so a few times. But I'm not going to go over 80% with any of these girls, because I think they're okay? I just don't really know how to use them yet.

 

[dekeche]

I can't quite put my finger on it.... but something doesn't seem right here....

 

[McHuman]

Thanks for putting all this together!

That's good to know about the use of Orgy, I'll try to remember this when I'm setting them up. I'm pretty good at getting two Chosen to the same T2 breaks, but still can't do it reliably with all three. Lots of replaying the same day at the moment.

Ahh good to know about changing items, thank you. I'm using Tomorrow's Newspaper, and to be honest I like having it, gives me a bit more confidence in unlocking things. If I start a new campaign I'll try out the Lard though, just to see it in action.

I'll be honest, I don't know if I'll ever sacrifice a Forsaken unless they are just unmanageable, only because I feel guilty about it lol. Here are the three Forsaken I got out of Loop 1 (I got full T4 breaks on all three of them which I was very proud of myself for doing ):

Spoiler: Forsaken

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I don't know what most of this means yet, I'm going through the training guide and probably will do so a few times. But I'm not going to go over 80% with any of these girls, because I think they're okay? I just don't really know how to use them yet.

Sacrificing useless Forsaken is unfortunately kinda mandatory for later loops due to the achievement tied to it which gives bonus starting EE.

As for the corruption stats:

Hostility - Lowers the motivation cost for deploying them, but makes it easier to tantrum as it's caused by motivation percent being less than Hostility percent. During training it increases the stamina cost and expertise gain. You'll generally want this stat somewhere between 30-49, as within this range you can deploy the Forsaken 3 times in a row without them throwing a tantrum, more or less than this will drop it down to 2 deployments. Also never raise this above 90, as unless the Forsaken has more than 100% Motivation, even just deploying the Forsaken once will make then tantrum, as 90 Hostility is a 11% Motivation cost which drops Motivation to 89% (100 Hostility is 10% cost, but any cost would obviously drop Motivation below 100).

Deviancy - The higher this gets the less expertise the Forsaken gains. at 50-59 Deviancy the Forsaken has base 100% expertise gain. Raising this stat is always bad, unlike the other corruption stats it has no directly positive effect to my knowledge with the exception of a non-Distorted Forsaken needing this at 35+ to be able to use the Force Orgasm Defiler. Even in training it only increases motivation costs and decreases expertise gain. Try to avoid raising this to 60 or above if at all possible, as at 60 expertise gain drops to 72%, at Kismet's 72 Deviancy that's only a 40% expertise gain.

Obedience - Increasing this makes the Forsaken more willing to consent to training which helps lower corruption gains, but it also decreases stamina regeneration. For most Forsaken you'll probably want to keep this around 50, however there are two important exception, Temptation and Negotiation Forsaken. Temptation Chosen need to keep this below 40 at all costs, as they only gain their Distortion Trait buffs while below 40 Obedience. Negotiation Chosen meanwhile don't care about this stat at all, their Distortion Trait negates the downside of Obedience by allowing their Hostility stat to overwrite their Obedience stat for the sake of Stamina Regeneration if they have less Hostility than Obedience (for example, if they have 80 Obedience and 20 Hostility, they get the +55 Consent Modifier from 80 Obedience, but instead of getting only 10% Stamina Regen from 80 Obedience, they get the 60% Regen as if they had 20 Obedience due to having 20 Hostility).

Disgrace - This is a... complicated stat, not in effect but in application. This makes Forsaken cost less EE to deploy but decreases the damage they do. The reason this stat is so complicated because where you want it entirely depends on how you plan on using the Forsaken. Forsaken you want to use in later days to build up massive amounts of Trauma and ANGST will want this low, Forsaken for use in early days to get T1/T2 Breaks want this high. Rampancy Forsaken however play weirdly with this stat as their Distortion Trait makes their EE Cost equal to the EE you have with the Reputation Strength (damage) scaling off of how much EE you paid and their Disgrace stat.

Also for training, each corruption stat is tied to a circumstance for the sake of granting expertise in training. So Hostility training will give HATE expertise, Deviancy will give PLEA, Obedience will give INJU, and Disgrace will give EXPO.

A general tl;dr of where you don't want your stats to be is to, generally speaking, never raise any of the stats above 80 or have them lower than 20, it's rarely if ever beneficial.

As for your specific Forsaken, their Corruption Stats are mostly fine, they're all above the 35% threshold in Obedience, Hostility, and Deviancy to perform all Defilers and 50% threshold for Punishers, so you don't have to worry about raising stats for those purposes. The only thing is you might want to play around with their Disgrace, and like mentioned earlier Kismet's Deviancy is a bit high though there is nothing you can really do about that. As for what you want to train them in:

Royal - Due to having Notorious Publisher you can actually go two directions with her, you can either go PLEA or HATE+PLEA and hard focus Trauma damage abusing the Trauma damage buff from it, or you can go INJU or HATE+INJU to take advantage of the Trauma damage buff to counter the low Trauma damage of INJU focused Forsaken. If you go the high Trauma route you'll want to keep her Disgrace low and use her for building up T3 Breaks in later days, if you go the INJU route then raise her Disgrace and use her for early T1/T2 Breaks. As for Punishers, obviously assign her as the Publicist and use her for T4 DIG Breaks, do not use her for as a Hypnotist or Harvester (Kismet has a better Punisher effect for both), use her as a Breeder if you are T4 MOR Breaking a Chosen who will get Braggart Breeder (Core Dignity, Significant Morality) as Scarring Breeder sets them up to build into HATE damage (if no Braggart Breeder but still want to use the Chosen, use Kismet as Breeder, if don't want to use Forsaken then use Hurricane).

Hurricane - Hurricane honestly doesn't have much going for her, she has no self buffing Punisher effect aside from Rising Publicist and reducing Disgrace is only useful if her Disgrace is too high, which it isn't, especially since with such a bad Forsaken you'll want to increase her Disgrace and use her as an early T1/T2 Breaker until you get a better Forsaken to replace her. As for what damage types to train in

Kismet - Sucks a little she ended up with such high Deviancy, but regardless Investigative Hypnotist makes her your best source of PLEA damage right now if you can stack it. How you build her though kinda depends on if you want PLEA or INJU for Royal. If you went the low Disgrace Trauma/PLEA damage route for Royal, then build Kismet with higher Disgrace and PLEA damage for T1/T2 INN Breaks. If you went higher Disgrace INJU damage for Royal, then build Kismet with lower Disgrace and PLEA damage for later day T3 Breaks. With Kismet you can either keep her solo PLEA damage or do HATE+PLEA damage. As for Punishers, obviously use her as the Hypnotist, also use her as the Harvester as Responsible Harvester is the best of the three, and use her as a Breeder under the conditions I explained in Royal's section.

At least, that's my thoughts for how I would probably train and use them. I'll admit though that I'm not the best when it comes to setting up Forsaken so someone else might have better suggestions.

Important note for assigning a Forsaken to a Punisher, only do it when you are performing the T4 Break. Do not assign a Forsaken to a Punisher early, especially when there are multiple choices for the Punisher you might want to use. Assigning a Forsaken to a Punisher then taking them off of that Punisher will drop their Motivation to 0% and result in them throwing a tantrum at the end of the day unless you do Grand Concert training with another Forsaken to raise their Motivation back above the tantrum threshold.

 

[jaw_bone]

Sacrificing useless Forsaken is unfortunately kinda mandatory for later loops due to the achievement tied to it which gives bonus starting EE.

As for the corruption stats:

Hostility - Lowers the motivation cost for deploying them, but makes it easier to tantrum as it's caused by motivation percent being less than Hostility percent. During training it increases the stamina cost and expertise gain. You'll generally want this stat somewhere between 30-49, as within this range you can deploy the Forsaken 3 times in a row without them throwing a tantrum, more or less than this will drop it down to 2 deployments. Also never raise this above 90, as unless the Forsaken has more than 100% Motivation, even just deploying the Forsaken once will make then tantrum, as 90 Hostility is a 11% Motivation cost which drops Motivation to 89% (100 Hostility is 10% cost, but any cost would obviously drop Motivation below 100).

Deviancy - The higher this gets the less expertise the Forsaken gains. at 50-59 Deviancy the Forsaken has base 100% expertise gain. Raising this stat is always bad, unlike the other corruption stats it has no directly positive effect to my knowledge with the exception of a non-Distorted Forsaken needing this at 35+ to be able to use the Force Orgasm Defiler. Even in training it only increases motivation costs and decreases expertise gain. Try to avoid raising this to 60 or above if at all possible, as at 60 expertise gain drops to 72%, at Kismet's 72 Deviancy that's only a 40% expertise gain.

Obedience - Increasing this makes the Forsaken more willing to consent to training which helps lower corruption gains, but it also decreases stamina regeneration. For most Forsaken you'll probably want to keep this around 50, however there are two important exception, Temptation and Negotiation Forsaken. Temptation Chosen need to keep this below 40 at all costs, as they only gain their Distortion Trait buffs while below 40 Obedience. Negotiation Chosen meanwhile don't care about this stat at all, their Distortion Trait negates the downside of Obedience by allowing their Hostility stat to overwrite their Obedience stat for the sake of Stamina Regeneration if they have less Hostility than Obedience (for example, if they have 80 Obedience and 20 Hostility, they get the +55 Consent Modifier from 80 Obedience, but instead of getting only 10% Stamina Regen from 80 Obedience, they get the 60% Regen as if they had 20 Obedience due to having 20 Hostility).

Disgrace - This is a... complicated stat, not in effect but in application. This makes Forsaken cost less EE to deploy but decreases the damage they do. The reason this stat is so complicated because where you want it entirely depends on how you plan on using the Forsaken. Forsaken you want to use in later days to build up massive amounts of Trauma and ANGST will want this low, Forsaken for use in early days to get T1/T2 Breaks want this high. Rampancy Forsaken however play weirdly with this stat as their Distortion Trait makes their EE Cost equal to the EE you have with the Reputation Strength (damage) scaling off of how much EE you paid and their Disgrace stat.

Also for training, each corruption stat is tied to a circumstance for the sake of granting expertise in training. So Hostility training will give HATE expertise, Deviancy will give PLEA, Obedience will give INJU, and Disgrace will give EXPO.

A general tl;dr of where you don't want your stats to be is to, generally speaking, never raise any of the stats above 80 or have them lower than 20, it's rarely if ever beneficial.

As for your specific Forsaken, their Corruption Stats are mostly fine, they're all above the 35% threshold in Obedience, Hostility, and Deviancy to perform all Defilers and 50% threshold for Punishers, so you don't have to worry about raising stats for those purposes. The only thing is you might want to play around with their Disgrace, and like mentioned earlier Kismet's Deviancy is a bit high though there is nothing you can really do about that. As for what you want to train them in:

Royal - Due to having Notorious Publisher you can actually go two directions with her, you can either go PLEA or HATE+PLEA and hard focus Trauma damage abusing the Trauma damage buff from it, or you can go INJU or HATE+INJU to take advantage of the Trauma damage buff to counter the low Trauma damage of INJU focused Forsaken. If you go the high Trauma route you'll want to keep her Disgrace low and use her for building up T3 Breaks in later days, if you go the INJU route then raise her Disgrace and use her for early T1/T2 Breaks. As for Punishers, obviously assign her as the Publicist and use her for T4 DIG Breaks, do not use her for as a Hypnotist or Harvester (Kismet has a better Punisher effect for both), use her as a Breeder if you are T4 MOR Breaking a Chosen who will get Braggart Breeder (Core Dignity, Significant Morality) as Scarring Breeder sets them up to build into HATE damage (if no Braggart Breeder but still want to use the Chosen, use Kismet as Breeder, if don't want to use Forsaken then use Hurricane).

Hurricane - Hurricane honestly doesn't have much going for her, she has no self buffing Punisher effect aside from Rising Publicist and reducing Disgrace is only useful if her Disgrace is too high, which it isn't, especially since with such a bad Forsaken you'll want to increase her Disgrace and use her as an early T1/T2 Breaker until you get a better Forsaken to replace her. As for what damage types to train in

Kismet - Sucks a little she ended up with such high Deviancy, but regardless Investigative Hypnotist makes her your best source of PLEA damage right now if you can stack it. How you build her though kinda depends on if you want PLEA or INJU for Royal. If you went the low Disgrace Trauma/PLEA damage route for Royal, then build Kismet with higher Disgrace and PLEA damage for T1/T2 INN Breaks. If you went higher Disgrace INJU damage for Royal, then build Kismet with lower Disgrace and PLEA damage for later day T3 Breaks. With Kismet you can either keep her solo PLEA damage or do HATE+PLEA damage. As for Punishers, obviously use her as the Hypnotist, also use her as the Harvester as Responsible Harvester is the best of the three, and use her as a Breeder under the conditions I explained in Royal's section.

At least, that's my thoughts for how I would probably train and use them. I'll admit though that I'm not the best when it comes to setting up Forsaken so someone else might have better suggestions.

Important note for assigning a Forsaken to a Punisher, only do it when you are performing the T4 Break. Do not assign a Forsaken to a Punisher early, especially when there are multiple choices for the Punisher you might want to use. Assigning a Forsaken to a Punisher then taking them off of that Punisher will drop their Motivation to 0% and result in them throwing a tantrum at the end of the day unless you do Grand Concert training with another Forsaken to raise their Motivation back above the tantrum threshold.

This is a lot to take in, and I understand about 20% of it right now lol. I'm going to bookmark this post, re-read it while I play the game, until it all starts making sense.

It does suck a bit about Kismet's Deviancy, but I think that's because she had Innocence as a minor, am I understanding it right? Cause I broke her to T4 in that, she goes in with a super-high Deviancy?

I think I'm going to use Hurricane as a T1/T2 breaker, given she's by far the cheapest in EE to deploy. It makes sense for Royal to be a high Trauma damage dealer just cause she has highest Hostility so it makes sense for headcanon.

The Positions screen descriptions confuse me a little, because I'm still learning the context for things. For example:

Notorious Publicist (+100% own trauma damage per Parasitism) [Royal]

- Their trauma damage based on training they've received?
- Parasitism received when they were Chosen, or Parasitism training moves I use, or Parasitism they use as Punisher moves against Chosen? (I'm assuming it's the third one)

Another one:

Painful Harvester (+25% victim Resolve damage from Attack) [Royal]

Who is the 'victim', is it the Chosen they attack? Is it their other Forsaken in training?

 

[McHuman]

This is a lot to take in, and I understand about 20% of it right now lol. I'm going to bookmark this post, re-read it while I play the game, until it all starts making sense.

Lol that's fair, this game takes a lot of time to understand.

It does suck a bit about Kismet's Deviancy, but I think that's because she had Innocence as a minor, am I understanding it right? Cause I broke her to T4 in that, she goes in with a super-high Deviancy?

T4 Breaking a Vulnerability will result in them having higher corruption in the associated Corruption Stat. I'm personally not sure the exact rules on it, but yeah it seems like her being a Minor Innocence resulted in a higher starting stat than if it was a Significant/Core Innocence.

The Positions screen descriptions confuse me a little, because I'm still learning the context for things. For example:

Notorious Publicist (+100% own trauma damage per Parasitism) [Royal]

- Their trauma damage based on training they've received?
- Parasitism received when they were Chosen, or Parasitism training moves I use, or Parasitism they use as Punisher moves against Chosen? (I'm assuming it's the third one)

The Punisher Positions are used to have a Chosen act as a Punisher Commander, performing the T4 Break of a Chosen themselves. So Notorious Publicist means that for every time Royal performs a Parasitism/T4 DIG Break she will gain a permanent +100% trauma damage. This is completely independent of training/expertise, it just increases all trauma damage they deal to a Chosen by however high that modifier has been stacked.

Another one:

Painful Harvester (+25% victim Resolve damage from Attack) [Royal]

Who is the 'victim', is it the Chosen they attack? Is it their other Forsaken in training?

Yes for the Punisher Positions any mention of "Victim" is the Chosen that the Forsaken is performing the T4 Break on.

 

[jaw_bone]

T4 Breaking a Vulnerability will result in them having higher corruption in the associated Corruption Stat. I'm personally not sure the exact rules on it, but yeah it seems like her being a Minor Innocence resulted in a higher starting stat than if it was a Significant/Core Innocence.

I think I get it now, it's all about trade offs. As fun as it is to get all T4 breaks, I can see why you'd want to avoid this in certain situations. I need to start using the Forsaken Preview:

Spoiler: Current preview

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This helps me figure out what to focus on, or what issues I may have if they are Forsaken, e.g. the 1k EE needed for Shroud may need lots of training, since I can't break Dignity as part of her Distortion plan, and it's one of her Core Vulns.. hmm I think I see the issue with Negotiation for her Distortion lol. Ah well, maybe it'll all even out later.

The Punisher Positions are used to have a Chosen act as a Punisher Commander, performing the T4 Break of a Chosen themselves. So Notorious Publicist means that for every time Royal performs a Parasitism/T4 DIG Break she will gain a permanent +100% trauma damage. This is completely independent of training/expertise, it just increases all trauma damage they deal to a Chosen by however high that modifier has been stacked.

This helps so much, I thought Positions was just like... council positions in the Demon Lord's hive or something lol. Now I don't have to worry about filling the positions until T4s are needed, this is a big relief, cause I was freaking out that not having the positions filled immediately was bad.

Yes for the Punisher Positions any mention of "Victim" is the Chosen that the Forsaken is performing the T4 Break on.

Lol I should've just read the Forsaken Preview, which answered that question too... maybe this same tip could be put onto the Positions screen, for people like me who don't look at Forsaken previews until they manage to finish Loop 1:

 

[McHuman]

This helps me figure out what to focus on, or what issues I may have if they are Forsaken, e.g. the 1k EE needed for Shroud may need lots of training, since I can't break Dignity as part of her Distortion plan, and it's one of her Core Vulns.. hmm I think I see the issue with Negotiation for her Distortion lol. Ah well, maybe it'll all even out later.

Just train up her Disgrace later if you want to use her, you can always handle starting with too low corruption, but you cant do anything about having it start too high. Granted she's not really worth the training as she's basically just a worse Kismet, as they both share Investigative Hypnotist and Responsible Harvester, but Shroud has Demoralizing Publicist which is worse than Kismet's Practical Publicist, and Earnest Breeder over Charming Breeder is pretty situational.

This helps so much, I thought Positions was just like... council positions in the Demon Lord's hive or something lol. Now I don't have to worry about filling the positions until T4s are needed, this is a big relief, cause I was freaking out that not having the positions filled immediately was bad.

There is technically no downside to leaving positions empty, though aside from the Punishers there are 2 positions that have an actual gameplay effect if filled. Trainer is necessary to fill to make Training Plans do anything, while Bait will cause the first Chosen in the next loop to have a relationship with the Bait Forsaken. Ambassador technically has a gameplay effect as the Ambassador Forsaken can be sent to meet with a Chosen through the Approach option in place of the Demon Lord, but considering Approach has no effect on anything outside of the Negotiation distortion, and what happens during the Approach for Negotiation doesn't matter, it has no actual relevant effect. The rest of the positions are pure flavor, Favorite will just cause the selected Forsaken to provide comments on your Commander body or deployed Forsaken in place of the default Analysis comment and Concubine just makes it so that the selected Forsaken cant have sex with anyone but the Demon Lord unless you order them to do so.

 

[jaw_bone]

Just train up her Disgrace later if you want to use her, you can always handle starting with too low corruption, but you cant do anything about having it start too high. Granted she's not really worth the training as she's basically just a worse Kismet, as they both share Investigative Hypnotist and Responsible Harvester, but Shroud has Demoralizing Publicist which is worse than Kismet's Practical Publicist, and Earnest Breeder over Charming Breeder is pretty situational.



There is technically no downside to leaving positions empty, though aside from the Punishers there are 2 positions that have an actual gameplay effect if filled. Trainer is necessary to fill to make Training Plans do anything, while Bait will cause the first Chosen in the next loop to have a relationship with the Bait Forsaken. Ambassador technically has a gameplay effect as the Ambassador Forsaken can be sent to meet with a Chosen through the Approach option in place of the Demon Lord, but considering Approach has no effect on anything outside of the Negotiation distortion, and what happens during the Approach for Negotiation doesn't matter, it has no actual relevant effect. The rest of the positions are pure flavor, Favorite will just cause the selected Forsaken to provide comments on your Commander body or deployed Forsaken in place of the default Analysis comment and Concubine just makes it so that the selected Forsaken cant have sex with anyone but the Demon Lord unless you order them to do so.

I think I'm at the point where I'm ready to read the Forsaken Reference manual now, because I can see it has a list of all of the different Punisher Positions. I'm going to educate myself on this so I can start seeing who has value and who doesn't.

I also saw the achievement for sacrificing someone... I would sacrifice Hurricane, so I can have extra EE for Loop 3, except Kismet will get mad with me for sacrificing her friend, won't she?

I may set Royal as Bait, see what kind of relationship she will get with Loop 3.

Thanks for all your help today!

 

[McHuman]

I think I'm at the point where I'm ready to read the Forsaken Reference manual now, because I can see it has a list of all of the different Punisher Positions. I'm going to educate myself on this so I can start seeing who has value and who doesn't.

I also saw the achievement for sacrificing someone... I would sacrifice Hurricane, so I can have extra EE for Loop 3, except Kismet will get mad with me for sacrificing her friend, won't she?

I may set Royal as Bait, see what kind of relationship she will get with Loop 3.

Thanks for all your help today!

If I remember correctly sacrificing a loved one will result in a negative training consent modifier, so not really that relevant as long as you have Kismet trained to a point where you're relying more on the training plan than actual training. Though I will say, keeping a useless Forsaken around can be useful to have set as a trainer, that way you're not having to set an actually useful Forsaken as the trainer and thus denying them their own training plan. Also they're useful in their own way to be used for Assist Raid/Grand Concert. Personally with how early you are I don't think sacrificing for 1 starting EE is really necessary, especially since you have Tomorrow's Newspaper, though I also don't think it will really hurt you to do either.

 

[MoarDakka123]

So I've got a (hopefully) teensy request, think we could just re-name pieces of outfits while editing? Sometimes an outfit is otherwise spot-on, but maybe the frilly panties could be swapped out for lacy ones for this character, or something like that, you know?

And not to pressure you, CSDev, but I also noticed Ambassador's are still kinda clunky to swap around (unless I missed something), just wondering if that might still be something on the to-do list, or if I should just make it easier for myself and stop dreaming?

 

[SuperSkippy]

For Day 8, I'm not able to get above a small Orgy no matter how I manage it. This does, however, open up the ability to take over the High Rises, which I do.

Day 9:

You have 26 Evil Energy.

Tip: During downtime, Chosen who like each other more benefit more from doing the same activity together.

Hymn's phase: Territorial (full HATE damage)
Sphinx's phase: Territorial (full HATE damage)
Figment's phase: Territorial (full HATE damage)

Strategic Advantage: 71.0M
Fortification:       136k

---

Overall corruption progress:

Hymn        +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (core) [X][X][X][ ][ ]
INN (core) [X][X][ ][ ][ ]
CON (min)     [X][X][ ][ ]
DIG (sig)     [X][X][ ][ ]

Sphinx      +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (min)     [X][ ][ ][ ]
INN (sig)     [ ][ ][ ][ ]
CON (core) [X][X][X][ ][ ]
DIG (min)     [X][X][ ][ ]

Figment     +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (sig)     [ ][ ][ ][ ]
INN (min)     [X][ ][ ][ ]
CON (sig)     [ ][ ][ ][ ]
DIG (core) [X][X][X][ ][ ]

I decide that the path forward might involve a tempted Figment, so I put that distortion plan on her to make sure that I don't get any other Breaks on her. This means I should be sure not to Penetrate/Inseminate Sphinx or Figment today so that everyone can be on INN next turn, which limits what I can do today. With 26 EE, I take Genius-> Reality Sealing to finish off all actually necessary research besides what's needed for the final battle. I send out the weakest Massacre I've sent for a while with the plan of earning some extra EE through an early Escape. I end up earning 5EE in the battle, which I could have gotten by Draining one of the many chosen I don't introduce, but I take this option because of the compounding damages from Control Center and Transmission Tower.

Day 10

You have 25 Evil Energy.

Tip: The traumas are FEAR, DISG, PAIN, and SHAM.  The circumstances are HATE, PLEA, INJU, and EXPO.

Hymn's phase: In Heat (full PLEA damage)
Sphinx's phase: In Heat (full PLEA damage)
Figment's phase: In Heat (full PLEA damage)

Strategic Advantage: 73.1M
Fortification:       225k

---

Overall corruption progress:

Hymn        +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (core) [X][X][X][ ][ ]
INN (core) [X][X][ ][ ][ ]
CON (min)     [X][X][ ][ ]
DIG (sig)     [X][X][ ][ ]

Sphinx      +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (min)     [X][ ][ ][ ]
INN (sig)     [ ][ ][ ][ ]
CON (core) [X][X][X][ ][ ]
DIG (min)     [X][X][ ][ ]

Figment     +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (sig)     [-][-][-][-]
INN (min)     [X][x][ ][ ]
CON (sig)     [ ][-][-][-]
DIG (core) [X][X][X][ ][ ]

Which information do you want to view?

Today, I need to:
1) Break Hymn's T2 INN for an extra 5EE because the vacation vignette happens.
2) Break Figment's T2 INN so that I can try for Tempted next day
3) Break Sphinx's INN also to delay all 3 of them. My preference is to break both of hers.
Time for Scissa, sent out originally vs Hymn.

Day 11

You have 62 Evil Energy.

Tip: When captured by a Commander with a special ability, it is not possible for the Chosen to defend themselves.

Hymn's phase: In Heat (full PLEA damage)
Sphinx's phase: In Heat (full PLEA damage)
Figment's phase: In Heat (full PLEA damage)

Strategic Advantage: 3.69G
Fortification:       371k

---

Overall corruption progress:

Hymn        +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (core) [X][X][X][ ][ ]
INN (core) [X][X][X][/][ ]
CON (min)     [X][X][ ][ ]
DIG (sig)     [X][X][ ][ ]

Sphinx      +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (min)     [X][ ][ ][ ]
INN (sig)     [X][ ][ ][ ]
CON (core) [X][X][X][ ][ ]
DIG (min)     [X][X][ ][ ]

Figment     +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (sig)     [-][-][-][-]
INN (min)     [X][X][ ][ ]
CON (sig)     [X][-][-][-]
DIG (core) [X][X][X][ ][ ]

Which information do you want to view?

I manage all of that plus a 10-turn Orgy.
So, my goal today is a Tempt on Figment for the sole purpose of getting 100EE. I'm planning to break it immediately afterwards. Sending Scissa vs Figment to start. It is fine if Hymn breaks her INN T3 as Sphinx still has an INN T2 to break. If the Tempt goes through, I will have enough EE for a commander hitting all Circumstances, which is what I need to break the upper tiers, I believe.

@CSDdev Typo alert:

Sphinx doesn't really care whether other people look down on her for getting turned on in the middle of battle, but her hatred for the Demons and contempt for those Enthralled by them mean that she is uncomfortable about letting them make her feel sexual pleasure. She resists as hard as she can, but her body's instinctive desire to cum is outside of her control.

Sphinx squirms wildly against the Thralls, knowing that just the lightest touch to her clit could push her over the edge, but they aren't interested in making her cum just yet. They bring her over to Hymn, whose glazed-over eyes barely even notice her presence due to the Thralls running their hands all over her body.

Sphinx snarls at Hymn as the two Chosen are bound together with steel cable. For her part, Hymn is too distracted by the warm of Sphinx's body to fight back properly. The Thralls surge forward to try to tear off Sphinx's torn armor plates, and their pulling, groping, rubbing hands force her to orgasm during battle for the first time. Hymn can clearly feel the wetness suddenly dripping from her pussy.

Should be "warmth"

Day 12:

You have 230 Evil Energy.

Tip: Cowardly Chosen are careful to avoid pain, but they lack the willpower to ignore their injuries.

Hymn's phase: In Heat (full PLEA damage)
Sphinx's phase: In Heat (full PLEA damage)
Figment's phase: In Heat (full PLEA damage)

Strategic Advantage: 3.69G
Fortification:       612k

---

Overall corruption progress:

Hymn        +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (core) [X][X][X][ ][ ]
INN (core) [X][X][X][X][?]  280%
CON (min)     [X][X][ ][ ]
DIG (sig)     [X][X][ ][ ]

Sphinx      +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (min)     [X][ ][ ][ ]
INN (sig)     [X][X][ ][ ]
CON (core) [X][X][X][ ][ ]
DIG (min)     [X][X][ ][ ]

Figment     +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (sig)     [~][~][~][~]
INN (min)     [X][X][ ][ ]
CON (sig)     [X][~][~][~]
DIG (core) [X][X][X][ ][ ]

Which information do you want to view?

I didn't remember if being Tempted counted as a vulnerability break, but it obviously does because they're all still on PLEA. My Achievements from repeatedly breaking Chosen are high enough that I need 400% in DIG and 300% in all other areas. These Forsaken should feed my strong ones well.

I send this big boy out:

[X][X][X][X][ ][ ][    ] Duration (Next: 2 EE)
[X][X][X][X] Extra Captures
[X] Ambush (free)
[X] Flight
Suppressor: Hunger [HATE]
Defiler: Spite [INJU, EXPO]
Punisher: Hypnosis [PLEA]

Your Commander is a huge, vaguely-humanoid titan of a Demon capable of restraining its prey and inflicting various tortures and humiliations.  Its imposing size serves to distract from its true weapon - its cloud of mind-influencing hypnotic spores which quickly take effect while its victims are immobilized.  In place of arms, its torso is covered in mouths whose long tongues are incredibly flexible and powerful.  Your Commander will lead your Demons into combat, allowing you to ambush your target and capture her for four rounds at the start of battle, and then four more times whenever you give the order, even against a flying target.  It is worth 116 Evil Energy.  You have 114 Evil Energy remaining.  This may interfere with the team's Distortions

I spend the extra EE on Flight just in case someone ends up very close to the next level of damage I need. Remembering that Figment's action after Tempt took all her Trauma away, I start with her.

Day 13:

Hymn's phase: Torpid (full INJU damage)
Sphinx's phase: Torpid (full INJU damage)
Figment's phase: Torpid (full INJU damage)

Strategic Advantage: 336G
Fortification:       1.01M
Any city objective may be seized!

---

Overall corruption progress:

Hymn        +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (core) [X][X][X][/][ ]
INN (core) [X][X][X][X][?]  280%
CON (min)     [X][X][ ][ ]
DIG (sig)     [X][X][ ][ ]

Sphinx      +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (min)     [X][ ][ ][ ]
INN (sig)     [X][X][/][ ]
CON (core) [X][X][X][ ][ ]
DIG (min)     [X][X][ ][ ]

Figment     +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (sig)     [~][~][~][~]
INN (min)     [X][X][ ][ ]
CON (sig)     [X][~][~][~]
DIG (core) [X][X][X][/][ ]

I managed a 13-turn Orgy, which I thought would be enough to get everyone into the 10G Trauma area at least, but Figment is still below that due to her modifiers from Trauma, and Hymn is also still below that. The Laboratory is still open to be seized, but I'd like to wait until it's worth 45EE to do so. The good news is that everyone is stuck on INJU like I had hoped. My new specialized Forsaken ought to be able to cause a larger Orgy on her own, at a significant discount over a big Commander:

Assplodey (formerly known as Cunning Cat Pounce)
Real name: Ushioda Rin

Stamina: 66.6%
Motivation: 136.5% (max 136.5%)

Expertise
HATE: 54.0k (x1.146 dmg)
PLEA: 55.0k (x1.149 dmg)
INJU: 136k (x1.282 dmg) (x1.335 dmg from Domina's drain)
EXPO: 88.6k (x1.219 dmg)
x8.300 trauma dmg from Ritual's parasitism
Combat Style: Desperate (1000% INJU)
Lacking confidence in own abilities, acts with singleminded focus to disable the target.  Useful early in the battle to increase future circumstance damage taken.

Training Plan: Desperate (1000% INJU)
Increases INJU expertise only

Defiler Specialty: Torture (INJU)
Can torment a target with at least 10k INJU, dealing bonus INJU damage, multiplying all damage with lower Disgrace, and causing tier-2 Confidence Break

Trait: Animalistic Forsaken
One-third motivation gain, +75% damage

First Impregnation: Ritual (+36.5% max Motivation)
First Drain: Domina (+33.5% INJU damage)
First Parasitism: Ritual (+730% trauma damage)

Hostility: 65% (Hateful toward humanity itself)
Deviancy: 30% (Elaborate sexual fantasies)
Obedience: 69% (Eagerly obeys)
Disgrace: 43% (Object of base lust)

A rare snippet from combat turn 1 to see how she's doing:

Sphinx is fighting alone!

  FEAR:     0 [Lv 0] x4(HATE) x4(PLEA) = x16 Total
  DISG:     0 [Lv 0] x2(HATE) x8(PLEA) = x16 Total
  PAIN:     0 [Lv 0] x2(HATE) x4(PLEA) x2(INJU) = x16 Total
  SHAM:     0 [Lv 0] x2(HATE) x4(PLEA) x2(own EXPO) = x16 Total

  HATE:   100 [Lv 1] x2(HATE) x3(INJU) x1/2(highest Circ.) = x3 Total
  PLEA:   280 [Lv 1] x2(HATE) x3(INJU) x1/2(highest Circ.) = x3 Total
  INJU:   100 [Lv 1] x2(HATE) x3(INJU) x1/2(highest Circ.) = x3 Total
  EXPO:   100 [Lv 1] x2(HATE) x3(INJU) x1/2(highest Circ.) = x3 Total

Choose your action.  Assplodey can capture Sphinx for 7 rounds.

---

Assplodey and Sphinx catch sight of each other across the battlefield, and Assplodey takes a defensive stance as the Chosen charges toward her.

FEAR [=~~~~~~~~~] (    0 + 10.9k = 10.9k) frantic desperation
DISG [==~~~~~~~~] (    0 + 20.5k = 20.5k) struggling not to be sick
PAIN [==~~~~~~~~] (    0 + 23.1k = 23.1k) sobbing with pain
SHAM [=~~~~~~~~~] (    0 + 19.0k = 19.0k) reflexively covering herself

HATE [-'''''''''] (  100         =   100) hating her situation
PLEA [--''''''''] (  280         =   280) blushing and distracted
INJU [~~~~~~~~~-] (  100 +  9899 =  9999) bleeding from several cuts
EXPO [-'''''''''] (  100         =   100) clothes have some small tears

INJU up!  Sphinx reels as her previous overconfidence is punished with attacks that start to draw blood.  Patches of red are beginning to spread across her clothes, and she'll only have a harder time defending herself from here.

Oh, she'll do just fine, I think.

I manage to get about a 10-turn Orgy out of her and break some more stuff, keeping everyone on the same cycle.

Day 14:

You have 245 Evil Energy.

Tip: When a surrounded Chosen uses a tactic that decreases the effectiveness of Grind, Caress, Pummel, or Humiliate, the damage from that source is decreased to 3/5.  When both tactics against the source are used at once, the damage becomes 2/5.

Hymn's phase: Torpid (full INJU damage)
Sphinx's phase: Torpid (full INJU damage)
Figment's phase: Torpid (full INJU damage)

Strategic Advantage: 518G
Fortification:       1.66M
Any city objective may be seized!

---

Overall corruption progress:

Hymn        +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (core) [X][X][X][X][ ]  175%
INN (core) [X][X][X][X][?]  280%
CON (min)     [X][X][/][ ]
DIG (sig)     [X][X][ ][ ]

Sphinx      +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (min)     [X][X][ ][ ]
INN (sig)     [X][X][X][?]  280%
CON (core) [X][X][X][/][ ]
DIG (min)     [X][X][ ][ ]

Figment     +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (sig)     [X][X][ ][ ]
INN (min)     [X][X][ ][ ]
CON (sig)     [X][X][ ][ ]
DIG (core) [X][X][X][X][/] 2020%

At this point, the battle is really pretty much won, but I'd really like to get as many T4 Breaks as possible against this team. I'll check in again before the Final Battle.

Day 14 I see a path to a big orgy and start earning 45EE. Hymn was in Surrender to Instincts so she didn't gain her last T3 break. Fixed Day 15.
Day 17 I notice that Figment's trauma reset at some point, her T3s no longer show as ready to break. I don't worry too much about it as the MOR and INN breaks are low-value (I very rarely use my INN building commander, and Massacre builds Hate enough that I'm not worried about her falling behind)

Day 20, before Final battle:

You have 879 Evil Energy.

Tip: "Striptease" decreases damage to surrounded Chosen in the short term, but the fact that it increases the user's EXPO level means that it can increase the overall damage taken during the battle.

Hymn's phase: Territorial (full HATE damage)
Sphinx's phase: Territorial (full HATE damage)
Figment's phase: In Heat (full PLEA damage)

Strategic Advantage: 2.01P
Fortification:       0

---

Overall corruption progress:

Hymn        +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (core) [X][X][X][X][X]  460%
INN (core) [X][X][X][X][/]  610%
CON (min)     [X][X][X][X]  690%
DIG (sig)     [X][X][X][X]  340%

Sphinx      +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (min)     [X][X][X][/]  310%
INN (sig)     [X][X][X][/]  460%
CON (core) [X][X][X][X][X]  480%
DIG (min)     [X][X][X][X] 2580%

Figment     +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (sig)     [X][X][ ][ ]
INN (min)     [X][X][ ][ ]
CON (sig)     [X][X][X][X]  440%
DIG (core) [X][X][X][X][X] 4540%

I figure I can get the last MOR break on Sphinx here by sending out Massacre one last time. I take Threaten+, Taunt+ and Attack+ I note that Hymn and Figment are at Solid Friendship level, meaning that they'll start with 180 resolve. Figment is also not on HATE or EXPO weakness this round, so she'll be the toughest to crack. Sphinx only has 60% resolve and will go down quite quickly. Hymn has high Resolve and is weak to HATE this round, so she'll be the second toughest. I send out Massacre and hope for the best. I should also be able to get an Impregnate against Sphinx, strengthening Massacre just a bit more (6.4%, based on how much Energy I had when I called her to go, even though it only costs 100 to send her).

R5 I release Figment to capture Hymn R6.
R7 I hit Figment for the first time with Taunt: -36% Resolve (144% remaining)
R10 I release Hymn, capture Sphinx R11. Figment uses Mating Dance--I wonder how this works after her Resolve is Broken? Because her DIG is broken, it only affects things for 1 turn. CSdev, is this a p
R13, break Figment's Resolve:

Resolve Broken

Finally, the illusion of Figment's strength is shattered, and with the change in the public's perception, reality follows suit.  Her clothes, already twisted by Demonic influence, finally fade away completely, leaving the naked Kasumi helpless in the middle of the street.  She sobs with despair, not only at her utter defeat, but also at the fact that she'll surely be remembered as nothing but a failure.

"I can't go back to being a normal person..."

R14 I'm starting to get close to 100% Extermination:

Round 14
Evacuation: 250/250 (100%)   [####################]
Extermination: 333/500 (66%) [#############==-    ]

The area is riddled with craters caused by the power of Hymn's attacks!
(Extermination power per Chosen: 50)

[ANIMALISTIC] Figment: Resolve Broken!
[ANIMALISTIC] Hymn: Opening Level 15 vs. Defense Level 3 [Resolve at 180%]
[ANIMALISTIC] Sphinx: Captured for 4 more turns [Resolve at 60%]

Massacre: Busy with Sphinx

Demonic barrier: all damage increased by 15%
Wild Hunt: all future Surround durations decreased by 8

Who will you target?

R17: Hymn broken.

Resolve Broken

Finally, the public's perception of Hymn reaches the tipping point.  With a flash of light, her Chosen garb is gone.  She glances down at herself in shock, then looks around frantically in hopes of finding where her sword went, but it's no use.  Your Demons ignore the newly-depowered Ayame, leaving her to be collected after the battle.

"Huh!?  What's happening!?  Where are my powers!?"

I think I'm a turn short of being able to convert Sphinx. She currently:

Loses 9% Resolve times SHAM level from Taunt when surround is possible

Her shame level is 5, which should be 45%, but she's got 60% resolve left. If I Capture her to do the MOR break I want to do, I think she'll end up killing herself. It may be possible to do things in a slightly different order and have her able to be converted too, so I try a few changes. If I'm able to do just 15% to her before this point I'll get her converted too. I decide to Retry.

R1: capture Figment
R2: Barrier
R3: Release
R4: Taunt (-36% Resolve)
R5: Taunt
R6: Capture Hymn
R7: Taunt Figment
R8: Taunt Figment
R9: Taunt Figment (Converted)
R10: Threaten Sphinx (-8% Resolve)
R11: Threaten Sphinx (-12% Resolve)
R12: Surround Sphinx, Inseminate (3 openings, -3 due to Wild Hunt)
R13: Capture Sphinx
R14: Taunt Hymn (-45%)
R15: Taunt Hymn
R16: Taunt Hymn, extermination finished
R17: Taunt Hymn (Converted)
R18: Impregnate Sphinx
R19: Penetrate (Defiler)
R20: Threaten (Converted)

I'd say that's a fairly good result. I never got Figment's MOR T3 broken, or anyone's INN T4. But this is a dfeinitely acceptable result that brings about the following big change:

Animal Tamer
Animalistic Chosen Broken: 15
Level: 4 (Next: 40 Broken)
Bonus: Each instance of circumstance damage deals at least 60 damage
Animalistic Chosen are special in that they draw their psychic energy from two sources: humanity's sense of justice, and humanity's respect for nature.  Even after becoming Forsaken, they retain their connection to the latter source, and you can turn that power to your own purposes, undermining the resistance of even your most resolute foes.

Primarily, this means that I can ensure Level 1 of any circumstance with two turns of capture. This may actually make some of my 2 circumstance 100% Forsaken useful again.
Kalloi, I just noticed that Hymn shows a s a songbird type, but in your picture pack it seems she uses Hope's portrait which is a cow.
I rename Hymn to "dodobrain"
Sphinx to "lionaroundhaha"
Figment to "..."

Assplodey is quite a bit stronger now:

Assplodey (formerly known as Cunning Cat Pounce)
Real name: Ushioda Rin

Stamina: 16.7%
Motivation: 94.5% (max 136.5%)

Expertise
HATE: 54.0k (x1.146 dmg)
PLEA: 55.0k (x1.149 dmg)
INJU: 136k (x1.282 dmg) (x1.171 dmg from drained opponents) (x1.335 dmg from Domina's drain)
EXPO: 88.6k (x1.219 dmg)
x4.420 trauma dmg from parasitized opponents
x8.300 trauma dmg from Ritual's parasitism
Combat Style: Desperate (1000% INJU)
Lacking confidence in own abilities, acts with singleminded focus to disable the target.  Useful early in the battle to increase future circumstance damage taken.

Training Plan: Desperate (1000% INJU)
Increases INJU expertise only

Defiler Specialty: Torture (INJU)
Can torment a target with at least 10k INJU, dealing bonus INJU damage, multiplying all damage with lower Disgrace, and causing tier-2 Confidence Break

Trait: Animalistic Forsaken
One-third motivation gain, +75% damage

First Impregnation: Ritual (+36.5% max Motivation)
First Drain: Domina (+33.5% INJU damage)
First Parasitism: Ritual (+730% trauma damage)

Control Center Seized: +27.61% damage in this loop from previous usage

Hostility: 65% (Hateful toward humanity itself)
Deviancy: 30% (Elaborate sexual fantasies)
Obedience: 69% (Eagerly obeys)
Disgrace: 43% (Object of base lust)

What would you like to speak to Assplodey about?

I don't have any new Forsaken to train, so I'll just spend these days optimizing the ones I have.
The holes I have left to fill in my roster are:
A low-cost 1000% HATE damage type that is capable of Release (Preference: 60 Disgrace Undead)
A low-cost 1000% INJU damage type that is capable of Release (Preference: 60 Disgrace Undead)
A medium-power 1000% INJU damage type captured through Aversion that can start Orgies (Animalistic, Disgrace 55-60%--note, this can be weaker than the one I already have that does the same thing through HATE)

Other possibly useful things:
Would it be useful to have Commanders that can start Orgies through PLEA? Through EXPO? They'd have to do it without a Punisher bonus to help build them out in those areas because of the restrictions for Aversion-type Forsaken. So they'd have to be very strong (max EE cost). I think a PLEA might be useful because that naturally comes with high multipliers to Trauma damage and long surround times, but would either of them be useful? Something to consider.

Forsaken idea: A Tempted Forsaken that deals 1000% EXPO like Scissa, transfers over to PLEA like Scissa also, but builds up her own PLEA damage? I decide that since Hypnoqueen (1000% PLEA, tempted, builds PLEA) has not been very useful lately that I'm going to retrain her to do EXPO damage at the start of a fight. This will only take forever, since she's got 82% Deviancy, but she's already built quite a bit of a PLEA multiplier so she'll be better at it than any Forsaken I can find. This will increase her utility quite a bit, but I expect it to take several loops.

Anyway, time to train and make more decisions later. Also I have enough extra shit Forsaken to earn the next tier of free EE at the start of a fight. I'll sacrifice them just before changing area.

Next up:

Kitakyushu
Damage Mitigation: 47% per level
Preparedness: Final Battle on Day 20
Luxuries: 4823% Trauma resolution speed
Elites: 1 Undead, 2 Animalistic Chosen
19 Influence

Chiba
Damage Mitigation: 44% per level
Preparedness: Final Battle on Day 20
Luxuries: 7059% Trauma resolution speed
Elites: 3 Animalistic Chosen
19 Influence

Definitely going to Kitakyushu, as I actually need one more Undead. Hopefully the pre-breaks will match up well. Goodbye dodobrain, lionaroundhaha, garbage, and rejected, we never got to know you all because you sucked.

 

[SuperSkippy]

Loop 18, Day 2:

Overall corruption progress:

Talon       +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (min)     [ ][ ][ ][ ]
INN (min)     [ ][ ][ ][ ]
CON (core) [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
DIG (sig)     [ ][ ][ ][ ]

Purgatory   +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (core) [X][ ][ ][ ][ ]
INN (sig)     [ ][ ][ ][ ]
CON (min)     [X][X][ ][ ]
DIG (core) [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]

Moo         +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (sig)     [ ][ ][ ][ ]
INN (core) [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
CON (sig)     [ ][ ][ ][ ]
DIG (min)     [ ][ ][ ][ ]

Talon
Deployment cost: 436 Evil Energy
Sadistic Breeder (+8.8% own max Motivation per Impregnation)
Resourceful Hypnotist (-156% Hypnosis Effectiveness required for Hypnosis)
Painful Harvester (+44% victim Resolve damage from Attack)
Practical Publicist (+44.0% victim EXPO damage as Forsaken)

Purgatory
Deployment cost: 167 Evil Energy
Earnest Breeder (-40% victim Hostility)
Adaptive Hypnotist (+0.1 own Expertise gain multiplier per Hypnosis)
Timid Harvester (-40% victim Obedience)
Notorious Publicist (+200% own trauma damage per Parasitism)

Moo
Deployment cost: 134 Evil Energy
Protective Breeder (+7.1% own max Stamina per Impregnation)
Blunt Hypnotist (+35% victim Resolve damage from Slime)
Gluttonous Harvester (+1.4% own Stamina regeneration rate per Drain)
Rising Publicist (-2% own Disgrace per Parasitism)

Looks like:
Purgatory can be Aversion'ed to fill one of the holes on our roster. Not only that, her Notorious Publicist will make her pretty awesome at that role, as 1000% Anger will also build a Trauma multiplier for all circumstances.
These fights shouldn't be too tough with my team, so I'll focus on highlights--first I want to get Talon and Moo cycling together.
Obviously I can afford Control Center Day 2 so I get that one.

 

[jaw_bone]

Loop 18, Day 2:

Overall corruption progress:

Talon       +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (min)     [ ][ ][ ][ ]
INN (min)     [ ][ ][ ][ ]
CON (core) [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
DIG (sig)     [ ][ ][ ][ ]

Purgatory   +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (core) [X][ ][ ][ ][ ]
INN (sig)     [ ][ ][ ][ ]
CON (min)     [X][X][ ][ ]
DIG (core) [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]

Moo         +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (sig)     [ ][ ][ ][ ]
INN (core) [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
CON (sig)     [ ][ ][ ][ ]
DIG (min)     [ ][ ][ ][ ]

Talon
Deployment cost: 436 Evil Energy
Sadistic Breeder (+8.8% own max Motivation per Impregnation)
Resourceful Hypnotist (-156% Hypnosis Effectiveness required for Hypnosis)
Painful Harvester (+44% victim Resolve damage from Attack)
Practical Publicist (+44.0% victim EXPO damage as Forsaken)

Purgatory
Deployment cost: 167 Evil Energy
Earnest Breeder (-40% victim Hostility)
Adaptive Hypnotist (+0.1 own Expertise gain multiplier per Hypnosis)
Timid Harvester (-40% victim Obedience)
Notorious Publicist (+200% own trauma damage per Parasitism)

Moo
Deployment cost: 134 Evil Energy
Protective Breeder (+7.1% own max Stamina per Impregnation)
Blunt Hypnotist (+35% victim Resolve damage from Slime)
Gluttonous Harvester (+1.4% own Stamina regeneration rate per Drain)
Rising Publicist (-2% own Disgrace per Parasitism)

Looks like:
Purgatory can be Aversion'ed to fill one of the holes on our roster. Not only that, her Notorious Publicist will make her pretty awesome at that role, as 1000% Anger will also build a Trauma multiplier for all circumstances.
These fights shouldn't be too tough with my team, so I'll focus on highlights--first I want to get Talon and Moo cycling together.
Obviously I can afford Control Center Day 2 so I get that one.

Reading your posts is fascinating. It's like trying to learn piano next to Mozart.

Quick question for everyone: are all the guides written for this game located in this forum or in the game folder? Or has anyone made an online Wiki yet? I have a lot of experience writing training materials & documentation for my day job, so I was thinking of documenting my attempts to learn the game somewhere others can see it, so that they can get through Loop 1 at the very least.

 

[McHuman]

Reading your posts is fascinating. It's like trying to learn piano next to Mozart.

Quick question for everyone: are all the guides written for this game located in this forum or in the game folder? Or has anyone made an online Wiki yet? I have a lot of experience writing training materials & documentation for my day job, so I was thinking of documenting my attempts to learn the game somewhere others can see it, so that they can get through Loop 1 at the very least.

The text files that come with the game are all written by CSdev to my knowledge. There are guides in this thread as well, but no one has actually compiled them or anything, so the most I can link you are the ones I've written:

The post I wrote about items that I linked you the other day, admittedly not great though.

This was a general early days guide I wrote up a couple months ago.

This I wrote a little after the previous guide and explains some mechanics like Trauma and Circumstances, and expands some on that guide.