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Pretentious Goblin

Devoted Member
Nov 3, 2017
9,235
7,753
This seems to be a case of the minor vulnerability starting out broken. Showing more clearly which vulnerabilities are already broken (without overwhelming the player with tons of information on the profile screen) is another place where I'm trying to figure out how to improve the UI.
Yeah, this was before I understood pre-broken vulnerabilities or how the tiers work. And yeah, it might have been averted by showing what tier the vulnerability is at.

I've encountered what I think is a bug - a Dignity vulnerability that still says "use Grind and Humiliate" when it's already been broken with a Broadcast action.

One thing that I've seen that I don't know if it's intended is that t1 minor and significant breaks tend to happen on their own when the Chosen is taking damage, even when I'm going out of my way to avoid them and don't use both of the associated actions at the same time and haven't even taken any circumstance damage in that vulnerability, as in the attached screenshot.

Also, a question: I could have sworn that, starting out, I read somewhere that Chosen with ranged weapons hang back and thus will get reinforcements sooner if they're the first to be targeted. Is that accurate, is it a dropped idea or did I just imagine it? Because you can set a Chosen's weapon in Customization, and it's supposed to be cosmetic with no effect on the gameplay.

Also, are Chosen downtime actions based on their Angst/Trauma or on their broken vulnerabilities, or both? What do I need to increase to get more extreme actions with more EE?

And a suggestion: While I really appreciate being able to customize a team, the questionnaire drives me up the wall as I'd rather manually set vulnerabilities. I always end up with a vulnerability that I would like to exchange between party members (that wouldn't break the rules of vulnerability distribution), but trying to do that through the questionnaire is usually futile. Also, the option to refer to a Chosen by their last name doesn't work, button is unresponsive. And the "Quit" button doesn't work.
 
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05841035411

Member
Jan 10, 2018
445
624
Also, a question: I could have sworn that, starting out, I read somewhere that Chosen with ranged weapons hang back and thus will get reinforcements sooner if they're the first to be targeted. Is that accurate, is it a dropped idea or did I just imagine it? Because you can set a Chosen's weapon in Customization, and it's supposed to be cosmetic with no effect on the gameplay.
I recall seeing the same thing; I don't know how it interacts with the customization system, but there are definitely some pretty substantial differences between how quickly certain Chosen receive reinforcements. For some, they show up in around four rounds, while others, literally the fight can be about to end before they turn up. I was under the impression as well that this was because of weapon types... Though maybe the weapons are just a reflection of personality? Like how you can usually tell from a Chosen's clothing whether they consider Dignity terribly important.

Also, are Chosen downtime actions based on their Angst/Trauma or on their broken vulnerabilities, or both? What do I need to increase to get more extreme actions with more EE?
My understanding is "both". They won't consider extreme actions before a relevant Vulnerability is broken, and they'll only go through with it if their trauma is high enough to justify it.

And a suggestion: While I really appreciate being able to customize a team, the questionnaire drives me up the wall as I'd rather manually set vulnerabilities. I always end up with a vulnerability that I would like to exchange between party members (that wouldn't break the rules of vulnerability distribution), but trying to do that through the questionnaire is usually futile. Also, the option to refer to a Chosen by their last name doesn't work, button is unresponsive. And the "Quit" button doesn't work.
Adding on to this, I'd also appreciate the option to tweak certain personality variables manually after setup - like if I want the "smart one" to be associated with a specific flaw, I'd prefer an option to move a few things around without having to go through the entire questionnaire. This would probably end up changing other things about the team as well, of course, but it would be a lot easier to judge the tradeoff at that moment, especially since it would be more visible.

Especially since I generally prefer playing with a random team, rather than one built from scratch - it's just that sometimes I'd really like to change one specific thing about them.
 

Pretentious Goblin

Devoted Member
Nov 3, 2017
9,235
7,753
*Love the game

Game values could all be made x5 faster and nothing would be lost except grind. Vulnerabilities are x5 stronger, debuffs and grab last x5 longer, enemy damage does x5 more, x5 more corruption

No need to simplify, just condense everything
Oh hell no. The snowballing in this game is out of control. 3 days ago I felt I had to wait until day 18 to do anything meaningful. Now that I've gitten gud, I managed to do tens of trillions of trauma damage in time for the interview (admittedly mainly because the pair actions / Orgy are absolutely ridiculous). I feel I have to seriously rein myself in for future playthroughs if I want the corruption to be a curve and not a spike. Definitely needs some slowing down, if anything. I feel the snowballing nature of the gameplay works against it as a corruption game, and the asymmetrical mechanics (adaptation actions) designed to slow things down are probably never going to work as intended. It's just too unbalanced. Using Sodomize+, I managed to get enough Angst on day 14 to break the next 3 tiers before even one adaptation action was used.
 
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05841035411

Member
Jan 10, 2018
445
624
(admittedly mainly because the pair actions / Orgy are absolutely ridiculous).
I wonder if diminishing returns would help with this? Orgy, for instance, seems reasonably balanced given the trouble involved if you can use it for three rounds - but it's completely broken if you can set it up for ten or more, largely because of how it balloons circumstance damage. If you applied a 25% penalty to how much damage it could do for each round it was active (down to a floor of 25% of base damage), it would still be an extremely strong option without letting it get completely out of control.

Then again, by the time you're setting up pair actions and orgies, you're probably aiming for your third and fourth third-level breaks, so it should be less of an issue than it feels... I don't know.

The high levels of trauma you can get feels like it should be an issue to me, but silly high levels of trauma don't actually have that much of an effect in the late game, since Chosen actions matter then instead of Trauma levels - so to make an analogy to various RPGs, it's more like seeing how high you can drive your overkill damage than anything else.

I guess the real question here is how long the Chosen should go between their first second-level and third-level breaks, and how hard it should be to reach their fourth second-level and third-level breaks (if the player is aiming for that at all). Currently, it's a couple of days, if that... But it would get rather grindy if it were, say, twenty days. And while it's only a couple of days if one is really optimizing their play, that's not really a good thing to base your game balance around; it gets frustrating for people who aren't as good, or who are deliberately shunning certain options for various reasons.

Maybe a mandatory adaptation period would be the best approach? "Chosen have to go a week between breaks in the same category to properly internalize the damage to their psyche" seems like it would smooth out the extremes without breaking the game.

the asymmetrical mechanics (adaptation actions) designed to slow things down are probably never going to work as intended.
In all honesty, the ones they learn with their third-level break do a pretty good job; Striptease on a character with a decent Exposure level can really ruin another character's Surround, while letting a character Fantasize a few rounds can cripple any attempt to inflict meaningful Trauma on them.

It's just... By the time they can really use them, Trauma doesn't really matter any more, except to set up Openings.

Oh, and the ways they learn to fight back against Surrounds are pretty impactful as well - it's just that since they use those techniques for most of the game, we kind of stop noticing because we're used to working around that. Maybe how hard the Chosen fight back could change based on how high Circumstance damage is expected? That would make it more noticeable while putting more of a brake on things...
 
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Elmsdor

New Member
Dec 23, 2017
11
11
I'm still hoping we can tailor the final battle and how we control to some degree how vulnerabilities break for our Saviours. I read multiple reviews, and I do agree, atm, the heroines are pretty much labrats and there is nothing they can do about it towards the mid and end game, while at the start, they're really nearly goddess like. I do know we all agree, the game potential and writing is spectacular and hoping we can see more of it.

Mid and end game trauma damage needs to either go down drastically or the girl's recovery needs to be upped. Maybe allow them a second recovery move if they're desperate but they appear a few turns later in the next battle?

I'm still hoping for a normal / tamer version of Sodomize but we get there hopefully :p

Was there hints or mention if we can change/direct(subtly) how the heroines dress up? Especially as their corruption picks up?

And tip jar when CSdev

Cheers
 

kained

Newbie
Jul 7, 2020
63
77
Really enjoying the game. Ticks my ryona boxes for sure. Is there a way to have the girls I already have on day 34 into a new game starting from day 1?

Edit: Never mind, just found New Game+ in the save files.
 

Woofer Stomp

New Member
Aug 7, 2018
5
1
Im having a serious case of game is good but I am not. I have been playing for a a day worth of hours now and I still don't see how to set up these mega number avalanches. The only way I can get longer surrounds is by dumping EE into a commander and I only got a break by accident.

I keep trying to work on the set up but the team keeps smashing the attack by turn 9. Bearing in mind that I haven't worked past day 18(been trying to get the fabled low morale scene interview).
 
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Pretentious Goblin

Devoted Member
Nov 3, 2017
9,235
7,753
Im having a serious case of game is good but I am not. I have been playing for a a day worth of hours now and I still don't see how to set up these mega number avalanches. The only way I can get longer surrounds is by dumping EE into a commander and I only got a break by accident.

I keep trying to work on the set up but the team keeps smashing the attack by turn 9. Bearing in mind that I haven't worked past day 18(been trying to get the fabled low morale scene interview).
Stripping them might be the missing key in your strategy. A chosen with EXPO levels makes it much easier to rack up both trauma and circumstance damage on other Chosen. My successful battles always have 2 Chosen being stripped either alternatingly or at the same time. Ideally you start each fight with an ambush on one that's easy to get EXPO and INJU on. Then you use Capture on the other Chosen you want when s/he shows up, making sure she also gets EXPO and INJU or HATE along with some openings.

Also, be aware that, if you surround a Chosen before extermination is complete, they can be surrounded again after extermination, assuming of course that you have someone else surrounded so the battle doesn't just end. But, since Chosen act one-by-one each round, you should make sure to surround that other Chosen 2 turns in advance of the first one being released just so he doesn't get to fly off before his friend gets surrounded.
 
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Pretentious Goblin

Devoted Member
Nov 3, 2017
9,235
7,753
Ah ok, just curious, does this affect if I'm trying for a innocence break? Im partial to PLEA.
Yeah, INJU on that Chosen and EXPO from another Chosen both help build those PLEA levels, including after you use Force Orgasm. Be careful with PLEA though, each level multiplies incoming trauma damage and, along with someone else's EXPO, this is exactly how you end up with billions of trauma in one fight (which could break more tiers than you wanted). And if you use Caress too early, it could end up increasing surround duration (thanks to trauma levels) while also tanking circumstance damage (ditto).
 
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Woofer Stomp

New Member
Aug 7, 2018
5
1
I noticed that some people were talking about triple digit EE gains but is this only related to late game? Currently, I only see 3 EE gains per battle. Is there a path I should be building to for EE gains or should I prioritize getting EE from breaks early game?
 

Pretentious Goblin

Devoted Member
Nov 3, 2017
9,235
7,753
I noticed that some people were talking about triple digit EE gains but is this only related to late game? Currently, I only see 3 EE gains per battle. Is there a path I should be building to for EE gains or should I prioritize getting EE from breaks early game?
They do activities that generate more EE as their vulnerabilities get broken and they have enough Angst to warrant it. Breaking vulnerabilities generates some EE as well, or a lot if you manage to break a core vulnerability that is someone else's minor vulnerability at a lower tier.

Overall, I wouldn't agonize about EE or rushing things unless you want more corrupted versions of the events, or a higher score on day 31. There is no endgame and the Chosen only get tougher once you break vulnerabilities that give them adaptation actions.
 
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CSdev

Member
Game Developer
Oct 14, 2020
169
558
I'm not sure I like that... I really appreciated the control that was granted by requiring the second level to break before the third, since it ensured that you could never fall too far down the corruption chain except by explicit choice.

There aren't a huge number of ways to accidentally rack up massive values of trauma while trying to avoid a type, but it's still the kind of thing that would sit in the back of my mind if I'm doing a playthrough where I'm deliberately trying to leave some categories unbroken.
It's intended that it's somewhat difficult to break some vulnerabilities while leaving others untouched. This is both to make it hard to create rivalries and also to lay the groundwork for alternative corruption paths. Right now, the alternative corruption paths aren't in, so going to the trouble of avoiding breaking some vulnerabilities isn't being properly rewarded, but eventually people who have a preference for not breaking certain vulnerabilities will get rewarded for playing that way.
I've encountered what I think is a bug - a Dignity vulnerability that still says "use Grind and Humiliate" when it's already been broken with a Broadcast action.
Even after you've used Broadcast to break the second tier of vulnerability, the first tier can still be intact. The profile screen just shows the first unbroken vulnerability.
One thing that I've seen that I don't know if it's intended is that t1 minor and significant breaks tend to happen on their own when the Chosen is taking damage, even when I'm going out of my way to avoid them and don't use both of the associated actions at the same time and haven't even taken any circumstance damage in that vulnerability, as in the attached screenshot.
What determines the first tier breaks isn't the actions themselves - it's whether the Chosen are at risk of going above 10k circumstance damage while surrounded. Because each damage type has two sinful actions they can perform to decrease the incoming damage, each damage type can end up breaking two vulnerabilities. This can be used to your advantage, too. For example, the Beg action decreases damage from both Caress and Pummel. For a Core Confidence, Minor Innocence Chosen, getting to 10k INJU damage is difficult, but you can break her with pleasure by using Caress to approach 10k PLEA instead.
Also, a question: I could have sworn that, starting out, I read somewhere that Chosen with ranged weapons hang back and thus will get reinforcements sooner if they're the first to be targeted. Is that accurate, is it a dropped idea or did I just imagine it? Because you can set a Chosen's weapon in Customization, and it's supposed to be cosmetic with no effect on the gameplay.
Back before customization was implemented, dignified Chosen would always end up with weapons that kept them at a distance, and that was reflected by their dignity stat being what determined how long reinforcements took to show up. That mechanic hasn't been changed, even though you can give them different weapons now.

Incidentally, the other three stats also apply differences to how the Chosen act which can be beneficial or troublesome depending on the circumstances. Chosen with higher morality have a higher threshold for how much trauma they need before doing sinful downtime actions, Chosen with higher innocence are more likely to do the same downtime actions as their peers, and Chosen with higher confidence show up earlier in battle.
And a suggestion: While I really appreciate being able to customize a team, the questionnaire drives me up the wall as I'd rather manually set vulnerabilities. I always end up with a vulnerability that I would like to exchange between party members (that wouldn't break the rules of vulnerability distribution), but trying to do that through the questionnaire is usually futile. Also, the option to refer to a Chosen by their last name doesn't work, button is unresponsive. And the "Quit" button doesn't work.
I want to add more options here, but it's tricky because whether something would break the rules of vulnerability distribution isn't immediately clear to new players. It'll be improved at some point.

Edit: Also, thanks for the bug report, it'll be fixed in the next version.
Oh hell no. The snowballing in this game is out of control. 3 days ago I felt I had to wait until day 18 to do anything meaningful. Now that I've gitten gud, I managed to do tens of trillions of trauma damage in time for the interview (admittedly mainly because the pair actions / Orgy are absolutely ridiculous). I feel I have to seriously rein myself in for future playthroughs if I want the corruption to be a curve and not a spike. Definitely needs some slowing down, if anything. I feel the snowballing nature of the gameplay works against it as a corruption game, and the asymmetrical mechanics (adaptation actions) designed to slow things down are probably never going to work as intended. It's just too unbalanced. Using Sodomize+, I managed to get enough Angst on day 14 to break the next 3 tiers before even one adaptation action was used.
I'm still hoping we can tailor the final battle and how we control to some degree how vulnerabilities break for our Saviours. I read multiple reviews, and I do agree, atm, the heroines are pretty much labrats and there is nothing they can do about it towards the mid and end game, while at the start, they're really nearly goddess like. I do know we all agree, the game potential and writing is spectacular and hoping we can see more of it.

Mid and end game trauma damage needs to either go down drastically or the girl's recovery needs to be upped. Maybe allow them a second recovery move if they're desperate but they appear a few turns later in the next battle?

I'm still hoping for a normal / tamer version of Sodomize but we get there hopefully :p

Was there hints or mention if we can change/direct(subtly) how the heroines dress up? Especially as their corruption picks up?

And tip jar when CSdev

Cheers
Regarding the midgame snowballing, I think a large part of this is that the game as it currently stands is basically the "quick play, easy mode" setting. I have some plans for more difficulty-enhancing mechanics that are aimed at moving back the snowballing point. (The ideas posed here in the thread are interesting as well.)

Costume changes are an idea that has come up a lot, but aside from the big change when you inflict tentacle clothes on them, I just don't think that the details of their clothes come up enough in-combat to justify making a step-by-step progression toward lewdness. That said, once the daily vignettes are in, some of those should deal with the clothes the Chosen wear (or choose not to wear) when they're off-duty.

As for the tip jar, the standard I've set for myself before I'm willing to accept money is that it needs to be possible to completely break the Chosen (as in, you should be able to get them on your side and use them to corrupt other teams). However, a separate issue that the game arguably already goes against Patreon's TOS, and there's more content planned that they'd definitely crack down on. The nice thing about avoiding crowdfunding is that I don't have to worry about being censored.
Is there anyways ways to change stats or edit my save?
With how relationship scenes depend on the Chosen's personalities, being able to change their personalities in the middle of a run would break some stuff. I'd like to offer some tools to do that sort of thing, but I'm not sure when it'll happen.
 
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ViviX12

Engaged Member
Jan 5, 2019
2,782
4,088
As for the tip jar, the standard I've set for myself before I'm willing to accept money is that it needs to be possible to completely break the Chosen (as in, you should be able to get them on your side and use them to corrupt other teams). However, a separate issue that the game arguably already goes against Patreon's TOS, and there's more content planned that they'd definitely crack down on. The nice thing about avoiding crowdfunding is that I don't have to worry about being censored.
There are other options than just Patreon though
 

05841035411

Member
Jan 10, 2018
445
624
It's intended that it's somewhat difficult to break some vulnerabilities while leaving others untouched. This is both to make it hard to create rivalries and also to lay the groundwork for alternative corruption paths. Right now, the alternative corruption paths aren't in, so going to the trouble of avoiding breaking some vulnerabilities isn't being properly rewarded, but eventually people who have a preference for not breaking certain vulnerabilities will get rewarded for playing that way.
After some thought, I think the only issue I have with this concept is how Orgy, specifically, interacts with it - currently, getting a good Orgy set up is a special thing in term of game mechanics, and something to actively work towards in an encounter. It also feels like a nice way to take a break; "You literally can't do anything now, so don't feel like you're wasting rounds by passing". In short, it's positioned as something for the player to aim for regardless of goal.

But... Because it inflicts so much trauma across all types, you can't use this special mechanic if you have any interest in leaving any type of Vulnerability unbroken. It's introducing a nice puzzle into the battle, but simultaneously telling a significant portion of players that they have to avoid solving it.

Maybe it would feel better if multiple types of Orgy were included, allowing you to exclude a certain type of damage? Or if there were an alternative action in general that offered you some other bonus for having accomplished the setup? This isn't an issue for the other special actions because there's always an alternative the player can employ - if they're avoiding Inseminate, they can use Force Orgasm. But because there is no other action requiring as much setup, having to specifically shun Orgies ends up feeling like bad play, rather than a deliberate decision.

Though if they don't serve as gates, I would also recommend changing how second-level breaks work - they're the only ones that currently require specific player action (or, in certain cases, rival Chosen action) to break, in contrast to the other three, which doesn't feel in line with the paradigm you've otherwise established; the player has near-complete control over this Break level. It also feels off to me thematically, as it's the only one where you're decisively doing something to the Chosen, rather than the Chosen themselves choosing to sink further.
 

evilfuzzyman

Newbie
Mar 6, 2017
37
49
Any chance of a family setting for the Chosen? Either off screen family corruption or on screen family fun times with each other. A grandmother mother daughter Chosen combo would be pretty amazing.
 
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05841035411

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Jan 10, 2018
445
624
Any chance of a family setting for the Chosen? Either off screen family corruption or on screen family fun times with each other. A grandmother mother daughter Chosen combo would be pretty amazing.
Personally, I feel like families are rather overdone these days... I'd prefer corrupting their hobbies or circle of friends, myself. I feel like that would allow for more variety as well, since it would help accentuate the difference between loner Chosen and the more gregarious ones.
 
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ara1111

Active Member
Apr 6, 2019
751
2,617
You already fuck their friends, it just goes into no actual detail, like basically every scene not involving other chosen. Family fits that sort of off-hand ''you fucked them lol'' commentary much better since fucking your family is inherently taboo, while ''you fucked a nameless guy a single line says is your friend'' doesn't hold the same weight without other scenes actually establishing them as friends and it doesn't make sense to put that much effort into minor no-name characters when the game still doesn't even have enough writing for the core girls.
 

05841035411

Member
Jan 10, 2018
445
624
You already fuck their friends, it just goes into no actual detail, like basically every scene not involving other chosen. Family fits that sort of off-hand ''you fucked them lol'' commentary much better since fucking your family is inherently taboo, while ''you fucked a nameless guy a single line says is your friend'' doesn't hold the same weight without other scenes actually establishing them as friends and it doesn't make sense to put that much effort into minor no-name characters when the game still doesn't even have enough writing for the core girls.
I was under the impression that Evilfuzzyman was proposing something more in-depth than the current relaxation activities, considering the impact that such a development should have. Having casual sex with your friends is something that most people can brush off; your grandmother is a different matter.

And if we're talking about such an expansion, I think it would be nice to build on the cult of personality that some Chosen have so that it's more than just a profile note, or to do things like sending in someone to work their way into a loner's trust so that they can be pushed a bit more firmly down the path of corruption, or to watch their innocent little book club grow into something unrecognizable. It's not something we see as much these days, and I think it would be more memorable.

Since the dev has stated they're not going to work on side matters like this until they've finished the main gameplay loop, we're talking about things that are months out regardless.
 
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