Java Corrupted Saviors [Release 58] [CSDev]

[McHuman]

Not really no, but sure, if you want to think so go ahead. As far as i feel from playing it, currently at least, it has a nice system set up for battles, it can get obnoxious from having to do things "exactly" as distortions requirements want you to do, but it's not really a true puzzle game, it's just planning your strategy during a battle. The timer not being able to be extended is quite a nuisance though. Secondly, i actually can judge a game by it's early development, yes. That's called feedback, especially for features that are supposed to be tested for balance, bugs, if it's clear to be player what it's supposed to be, on and on. This also includes what is good for the people playing it, like for example, players that want more difficulty, players that feel that the difficulty is just fine and players that want to have an easier time. It's all part of the feedback process, dev gets to gauge how things are currently received by all types of crowd. Then finally it's up to the dev to strike the hammer, some will be displeased and leave, some will stay. It's all part of the process.

If you could extend the timer that would basically remove all difficulty. Also when I said you cant judge a game in early development I obviously meant in the context of difficulty, you cant judge the intended difficulty and stuff of a game when it's so early in development where balance is naturally not going to align with what's intended as it's constantly getting thrown off as the game is rapidly changed between versions. Just cause a game is easy early in its development doesn't mean it's intended to be easy. Also "some will be displeased and leave, some will stay. It's all part of the process.", does this not apply here to you? The game is clearly intended to become quite difficult as loops go on, so by your own words if that displeases you you should go.

The whole idea of a prestige system is to start at 0% extra additions to calculation or bonuses. It's meant to always increase by a small percentage, like 3% or 5%, so the player can add it themselves how strong they wish to start their next campaign. Its them that's doing the balancing, not me, you or the dev. That's the whole idea of it. I didn't say the dev would have to keep testing it for balance, it's meant as a tool to let themselves tip the scales to where they want, from increasing damage, barrier growth rate to total extermination bar value. Every time they lose, they gain a prestige currency they can use to get a little stronger, like for every 1 loop completed, get 10 points or something. "Here you go, go spend it to get extra bonuses if you want."

If you just want a prestige system to allow the player to fine tune the difficulty on their own, then just do what you already do, use the cheat option and cheat engine to do it.

That's basically what you're telling the players to do though. You're telling them that they'll eventually have to stop playing a game mode filled with content, including the lore, to stop playing it and go play a single-round mode or something else. The campaign is where you'll find the most content of the game, including the story, just because you don't like the idea of discussing for a way to reach a compromise, so we can all have a middle ground to be able to enjoy the main game mode, which also has city conquering, forsaken training, all the content the game has to offer? Was there an attempt at finding a compromise? Were there discussions if could be done or are we just declaring it without even trying "Nah, we're not gonna do that, can't be done, no way." ? And we're talking about difficulty here of all things.

I'm telling them to restart their campaigns when it gets too difficult for them. Also the only content in the game locked behind campaign is the story stuff and looping/city conquering, everything else can be done in single-play, even Forsaken training. The looping/city conquering though isn't really a relevant loss though considering you can replicate the effects through the custom team option. As for "compromise", compromise can only be reached if CSdev wants to make the game easier or give options to do so outside the cheat option. You can petition for it if you want, but if CSdev isn't personally interested in doing so and the core audience doesn't care for it, they're likely not going to bother to divert development time to something like that unless it's a donation request.

Correct, and your issue with giving me the option to choose myself, a player, if i want it enabled or not in my game is?

Gonna be honest, that was my bad and I just misread what you said. I don't use cheats in campaign (or at all unless I'm testing something and not genuinely playing) so I didn't realize enabling cheats removed difficulty scaling from campaign and thought you were suggesting adding that as a cheat option. Not that it was already a thing and you were saying to add an option to disable it.

That's strange, because sometimes they "do" trigger accidently on my games, and not only rampancy. Good to know they don't happen to you though, nice. That's fine by me though, it's not that big of a deal for me, also they're part of strategy planning for the battles as well as the charm of the game, so i can do fine with them the way they are.

Then either you just overlooked something or it's a bug, cause Negotiation outright can't trigger during a battle, Temptation requires selecting the Tempt option during a surround, Aversion requires a 10 turn Orgy, and Rampancy requires a 10 turn surround with HATE at a higher level than INJU. They are not suppose to be able to trigger outside of those situations, if they are then that's a bug.

Good, you got it. They're "suggestions" for the dev to take into consideration, as well as your feedback, it's also your personal suggestion and take on this matter. That's why we're discussing this particular shitstorm of a debacle, isn't it? We all here have suggestions, different takes and stands on balancing something. Some people want it harder, some like it just fine the way it is, some want things easier. It's always like this when the discussion turns into "proper balancing". Either way this goes is fine by me, whatever the dev decides i know i'm not gonna start a flame storm here in the thread. Will i be disappointed that the game turned into more of a stressful experience with too many disadvantages on my side that takes the enjoyment out of the game for me? Yes, especially when you invested into it so much. That's fine, there are other projects to follow, i'll move to another one just fine. But you know what truly is always a true sack of shit that annoys the hell out of me every time? Especially in a game of this genre? It's how when you suggest "possible", Key word here, "Possible", alternatives se we can all find and reach a compromise, a middle ground so everyone can find a way to enjoy this game together, people just point fingers at one another, throw shit at one another, attack one another, all the fun stuff. In the end, it turns out it's an impossibility to share the fun, people leave and voila.


Regardless of how this shitstorm's gonna end, the dev's gonna be reading all of our takes, suggestions and analysis of how loops are working out. Skippy's being doing good work on that part. So we'll see what the dev finds impossible to do, what cannot be done, what could be done and what is planned to be done in the future.

This is hardly some attack on you or your ideas, I just disagree with them and am replying with my opinions. If you are taking that as an attack then that was not my intention.

 

[Shasou]

If you could extend the timer that would basically remove all difficulty. Also when I said you cant judge a game in early development I obviously meant in the context of difficulty, you cant judge the intended difficulty and stuff of a game when it's so early in development where balance is naturally not going to align with what's intended as it's constantly getting thrown off as the game is rapidly changed between versions. Just cause a game is easy early in its development doesn't mean it's intended to be easy. Also "some will be displeased and leave, some will stay. It's all part of the process.", does this not apply here to you? The game is clearly intended to become quite difficult as loops go on, so by your own words if that displeases you you should go.
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Ah, now i feel bad for saving over my previous run, if that was a bug i should probably have taken a screen of that and reported it, damm. Well, i'll try to replicate again, with some luck i'll be able to trigger it once more and post the save here.

I see some misunderstandings happened, i don't take your points of view as attacks at all, we are simply discussing difficulty aspects in a game. When conversing in text we might misread how we are expressing ourselves, so we might get the impression of hostility or attacks, but it's all good. I respect your take on this matter as well as your stance, i would also like to apologize if my approach gave you the impression of hostility or personal attacks, those were not how i was approaching you.

When you said judge a game in early development i did not understood that you were only focusing on the difficulty aspect of ED. Yes i do agree with you, the game will obviously go through changes on that particular aspect, the increase in difficulty will be pretty obvious as more mechanics are implemented. As you said, there's no way of knowing what CSDev wants on this, all our talks here are just for their own benefit of gathering information, what they'll end up doing is completely up to them, as it should be. So obviously, depending on how the game'll end up going regarding difficulty i might leave indeed.

 

[SuperSkippy]

I'm also down for conflict with other demon lords, dekeche offered some interesting ideas. Regarding Cheat Engine, it's not as simple as you make it to be. It's not something that gives the complete control you think, maybe if you're an experienced user you could make those things happen, but yeah, it's no substitute for an actual feature. By the way, is that a He-Man reference? I think that's a He-Man reference, but the guy looks like a Transformers character

I know programming, I know what CE gives you in Java games. Java garbage collection goes om nom nom and you've got to go find stuff in totally different memory addresses. Still, if you know what you're looking for, everything I said is doable, especially if you learn how the game represents things internally like say, resistances.

I forget that I'm older than the average user here, that's Captain Planet. He's saying "The power is yours!"

 

[Shasou]

I know programming, I know what CE gives you in Java games. Java garbage collection goes om nom nom and you've got to go find stuff in totally different memory addresses. Still, if you know what you're looking for, everything I said is doable, especially if you learn how the game represents things internally like say, resistances.

I forget that I'm older than the average user here, that's Captain Planet. He's saying "The power is yours!"

Captain Planet was the one cartoon i never got to watch, i totally got him confused with a He-Man character or Transformers xD

That's very informative, i didn't know CE could do that much in the game. I'm not an experienced user at CE, i use it as best as i can, but even then it's very limited to me. I'm still able to change a few things in battle though so that's good enough for me.

 

[Nemo de Nemo]

Since the topic of difficulty has been raised.
I'm gonna throw out a suggestion of adding an additional cheat toggle to campain mode:
Having the option to turn on/off the ramping difficulty multipliers of later loops.

This would let players that want to tip things in their favor, but not outright remove the struggle of later loops do so while reducing the impact those experiences have on the genuine play experience of a no cheats campain run. If that makes sense.

 

[Celerarity]

Since the topic of difficulty has been raised.
I'm gonna throw out a suggestion of adding an additional cheat toggle to campain mode:
Having the option to turn on/off the ramping difficulty multipliers of later loops.

This would let players that want to tip things in their favor, but not outright remove the struggle of later loops do so while reducing the impact those experiences have on the genuine play experience of a no cheats campain run. If that makes sense.

Without those modifiers the ramping power of Forsaken, items, and the demon lord will very quickly make the campaign as easy as a cheat run, so while I don't see a specific reason that shouldn't be done, I find it hard to see what it offers that just turning on cheats does not.

 

[McHuman]

Without those modifiers the ramping power of Forsaken, items, and the demon lord will very quickly make the campaign as easy as a cheat run, so while I don't see a specific reason that shouldn't be done, I find it hard to see what it offers that just turning on cheats does not.

Turning on cheats already disables those modifiers, what they're saying is to add an option in cheats to not disable the modifiers when using cheats.

 

[Celerarity]

Turning on cheats already disables those modifiers, what they're saying is to add an option in cheats to not disable the modifiers when using cheats.

Oh I didn't know that, sounds like a good idea.

 

[dekeche]

Found a bug! Triggering a rampage while nobody else is in battle freezes the game.
Version: 47 - updated to 47b, still occurs.
Save is C2-Ongoing
Steps to reproduce: Next Battle -> Shadow | Slime,Taunt,Surround.

 

[dekeche]

Is soul Liquefaction good/bad?
On one hand, it's just a really bad investment. Why spend 10 EE on an item to get +1 EE, when you could spend that on a commander? Even if you don't need to spend it on a single turn, early game where that's relivant you should be saving up for key upgrades anyways.
On the other, it's basically free EE per turn when you are dealing with undead. They can't get to any energy invested, and the investment will increase your passive EE gain. But... Not sure how useful that is compared to other items. This is a game about snowballing, and this doesn't exactly help getting that snowball rolling down the hill.

This item would be really good if you could take EE invested between cities(How I read it at first), or if undead consumption was automatically invested, instead of being consumed.

 

[Maiuw2]

Hello there, been ages since I've last played, and it seems I'm fking terrible at this game once again.
I remember really liking this game once I got used to it, but It's difficult getting back into it.

Could someone give me Tech Tree guidelines (order of what to spend EE on)
As well as how to actually get super high angst + breaks?

My first goal is a char with
Core Morality and Innocence
Minor Confidence
Significant Dignity.

 

[dekeche]

Hello there, been ages since I've last played, and it seems I'm fking terrible at this game once again.
I remember really liking this game once I got used to it, but It's difficult getting back into it.

Could someone give me Tech Tree guidelines (order of what to spend EE on)
As well as how to actually get super high angst + breaks?

My first goal is a char with
Core Morality and Innocence
Minor Confidence
Significant Dignity.

Core Morality and Innocence? Ugh, that's ruff. You'll be able to get good circumstances on them, but you'll have a harder time getting trauma. Which means less surround durations overall, in turn reducing the amount of circumstance damage you can actually deal. I'd start with the chosen with Core Dignity, then move onto the others afterwards.

As for the tech tree? An advanced strategy could be to ignore psychic reading for the battle and damage boosting upgrades, making battles take longer to draw in the other chosen earlier. You can use the retry button to feel out chosen for their weaknesses, rather than using psychic reading to get the precise numbers. In any case, I think the purchase order is the same as it used to be: Causality Projection (Bonus EE) -> Networked Consciousness (better surrounds) -> Reality Sealing (advanced demon upgrade) -> Synthesis (HATE+INJU+EXPO Commander). The two 5EE battle extenders go somewhere in that unlock path. I usually pick up Human collaborators before Causality Projection, and Nursery Hives before Reality Sealing. The 20EE extenders I'll pick up after Synthesis, using the bonus EE I generate from sending out the first "breaker" commander (3 capture, HATE+INJU+EXPO, duration = Next chosen appears at-1.).

 

[McHuman]

Hello there, been ages since I've last played, and it seems I'm fking terrible at this game once again.
I remember really liking this game once I got used to it, but It's difficult getting back into it.

Could someone give me Tech Tree guidelines (order of what to spend EE on)
As well as how to actually get super high angst + breaks?

My first goal is a char with
Core Morality and Innocence
Minor Confidence
Significant Dignity.

When it comes to the tech tree there are 4 main goals you want to work towards, well 4 + a sub goal making 5.
1 - Get all the 1 and 2 EE Cost upgrades, you basically cant do anything without them. Also once you get all of them start using 4 turn duration - 2 capture commanders. Ideally you'll want your first 4-2 Commander used on Day 12, as without items Day 12 is the earliest day you can do it assuming you get 1 EE from every Chosen the day they arrive.

2 - Get Networked Consciousness, this will make your surrounds significantly stronger and is one of the bigger gates to bigger surrounds, as it allows a 4 turn surround on a second Chosen (from a 4-2 commander) to target every circumstance while still having time to re-surround the first Chosen and benefit from FEAR openings (you can use a 5-2 commander, but that is 7 EE vs 5 EE and having to take an extra turn can result in the extermination ending before you can re-surround the first Chosen, giving you 1 less surround for the fight). The upgrade path for this is, after the 1-2 cost EE upgrades: Lust, Anger, Hunger, Human Collaborators, Casual Projection, and Dominance, for a total of 49 EE and should ideally be gotten no later than day 20.

3 - This is that sub goal I mentioned, after getting Networked Consciousness is around the time you'll want to start picking up extra commander upgrades and evacuation/extermination limit increases when you have the extra EE to afford them and actually make use of them.

By this point you're basically set for much of the mid-game until you start throwing around Defiler/Suppressor Commanders.

4 - Reality Sealing, this is good for doing something useful in the downtime in a battle, like in the opening turns when using a commander with some combination of suppressors/defilers/punishers which makes it so you cant do anything until other Chosen arrives, or when doing an Orgy before the extermination finishes for the same reason. It also gates off one of the Punishers and Resolve attacks, and Antipathy which is super useful for if you've made the Chosen hate each other. When you get this really doesn't matter as much as Networked Consciousness as you wont get tons of use out of it until fielding those aforementioned commanders or Orgies, but it is worth working towards, especially since most of the prerequisite upgrades are commander upgrades you'll want to pick up anyways.

4a - This is more a note than anything, but while you can be a bit more relaxed with getting Reality Sealing in Loop 1, in later loops when you'll have Forsaken it's better to try getting this sooner after Networked Consciousness as Forsaken fall in the same category of commanders with suppressors/defilers/punishers that leave you with nothing to do for the first several rounds.

5 - At this point all that's really left is the late game upgrades like Punishers and Trauma+ attacks, and that point in the loop is pretty variable based on the exact team of Chosen, so there really isn't any upgrade advice given beyond working towards the Punishers for the T4 Breaks you're working towards and the associated Trauma+ attacks, and pick up Antipathy and/or Empathy based on how much the Chosen hate and/or love each other.

As for your current goal, if you're struggling to break her with a 4-2 Commander just hold off on breaking her and focus on other Chosen.

For extra help here are 3 guide posts I've written: early game guide, explanation of some mechanics and slight expansion to guide, very basic explanation of loop 1 item picks.

 

[EchoEater]

Not sure if anyone else is experiencing this, but all the animalistic chosen I have been facing in my current campaign have been missing the initial paragraph that they used to have. Haven't faced any Undead yet, so not sure about that. Not sure if it is relevant, but I have a large number of custom chosen, including some who I had to set to have a different animal species than the default one provided by their stats.

 

[EchoEater]

Also, I ended up getting Victory as a male Chosen (looking forward to gender bending them), but their physical traits seem to be set as if they were female, and their transformation text and Examine description in battle use female pronouns. The rest of their profile text does use male pronouns but does also have the issue I described in my previous post of missing that first paragraph.

On a separate note, any recommendations for which Distortion to put Victory though? I'm leaning towards Aversion or Rampage so that I can cause the gender bending to happen in battle as opposed to once they become Forsaken but if there is a generally superior choice among any of the Distortions, I'm all ears.

 

[Kackuyen]

Bug report: seems like Forsaken Tempt Defilier option on a valid target trigger some janks with the parasied Chosen, This might create an enless loop and prevent progress.I assume using this option before Parasisim is okay, however.

 

[ShadowBlaze94]

Picking this game up again after messing around with cheat saves for a bit. I'm trying to go through it legit and wanted to challenge myself by having the Chosen be friends but I'm not sure if I can figure it out. Tried procc'ing the final battle early to see if I could do it but I'm stuck. Any advice? Or should I just wait it out and break all of their confidence first? The save file is "Ready"

 

[Celerarity]

Breaking the required confidences before the final battle is kind of an important step, unless you have distortions built up that basically invalidate the fight.

 

[SuperSkippy]

Picking this game up again after messing around with cheat saves for a bit. I'm trying to go through it legit and wanted to challenge myself by having the Chosen be friends but I'm not sure if I can figure it out. Tried procc'ing the final battle early to see if I could do it but I'm stuck. Any advice? Or should I just wait it out and break all of their confidence first? The save file is "Ready"

After a quick glance at your save file, you've already got Unbreakable Friendships between every pair except Vanguard/Smile. To get them there all you have to do is break Smile's (minor) CON before Vanguard's (core) CON. CON is a very easy and controllable break for standard Chosen as it goes up when they Explode from a Capture. You have 13 days left which is plenty of time to break both vulns. You'll get them to go up faster if you make sure to use all your Captures on a single Chosen in a fight, and you've got enough EE to really let them have it.

If you need it spelled out more explicitly:

Spoiler

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Stigma      +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (min)     [X][X][X][X] 1030%
INN (min)     [X][X][X][X] 1594%
CON (sig)     [X][X][X][ ]  520%
DIG (core) [X][X][X][X][X] 1820%

Vanguard    +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (core) [X][X][X][X][ ]  660%
INN (sig)     [X][X][X][X] 1342%
CON (core) [X][X][X][X][ ]  370%
DIG (min)     [X][X][X][X] 1880%

Smile       +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (sig)     [X][X][X][X] 1110%
INN (core) [X][X][X][X][X] 1582%
CON (min)     [X][X][X][ ]  250%
DIG (sig)     [X][X][X][X] 1080%

 

[Deathpacito]

I recently started playing this game and after a couple of runs I have managed to break all tier 2 vulnerabilities by day 26 but now I am kinda stuck. The game tells me to "Reach 1.00G Unresolved (x) vulnerability" but I have no idea what that unit of measurement is meant to represent. Also, any tips on what to do going forwards to generate more Evil Energy would be greatly appreciated as the +15 EE doesn't cut it anymore