Others Corruption of Champions II [v0.7.13] [Savin/Salamander Studios]

[Serveral]

Curb your anger lads. When the game is finished, moders will set things strait.

 

[muschi26]

I don't know anything about code but putting a backslash before every apostrophe seems like mental torture.

View attachment 2606299

They wouldn’t have to do that (and it would indeed be better stylistically) if they used typographic apostrophes <’> for text, and kept typewriter apostrophes <'> for code.

 

[Quintilus]

Yes. You could have some LyricHimHer/LyricHeShe/etc variables that are dependent on Lyric's gender flag, (or whatever it is that dictates their gender) and instead of making a shit ton of if statements all over the place, all you'd need to do is integrate those variables to the parser so that they print the corresponding string whenever they're called.

JS is not even the limitation here (if that's their excuse), it's just how their brains work.

On this part, it could have been resolved with a simple get_gender(bool female = false, int person = 1).
But I was referring more on the 'embedding calls into the plain text' part.

 

[Tau_Iota]

View attachment 2606311

"Who's laughing now?"

 

[Quintilus]

"Who's laughing now?"

"Yes, I was in a CoC2 club"

 

[Serveral]

They wouldn’t have to do that (and it would indeed be better stylistically) if they used typographic apostrophes <’> for text, and kept typewriter apostrophes <'> for code.

TiTS already does this. It's insane how incompetent Savin is as a project lead. Can't imagine what the future of both projects looks like now that he's also in charge of both.

On this part, it could have been resolved with a simple get_gender(bool female = false, int person = 1).
But I was referring more on the 'embedding calls into the plain text' part.

I just checked, they already do this. Lyric's char object has a heShe variable (which shows that the idea did cross their minds, but it seems they only partially implement it) that is only SELDOM used, so there's shit like this in the code

"So what now?" [lyric.mf|he|she] asks.\n     \n    Now, [lyric.mf|he|she] gets off you.\n     \n    "Oh!" [lyric.heShe] chirps. "Right. Sorry. Right."

You can't make this shit up.

 

[Biostar]

...Is it bad I'm hoping their lazyness will kick in and they'll just copy-paste her sex scenes?

That would be the merciful option.

It's a porn game where the entire setting and point is about sexual openness.

Which is why several LIs are monogamous to you and show no sexual interest in other people. Which is why Cait goes out of her way to tell you she's not going to be exclusive, as if that's not just common sense. The point is that it wasn't set from the beginning so it comes out of nowhere if you're not interested in pursuing polygamous NPCs. Also, saying never to the date advice was not available from the beginning. If you refused it would just pop up again and that got annoying so I just did it and moved on from Azz. They only added the option way after the fact cause I guess they couldn't fathom you not being interested in a threesome you can't get involved in.

It really seems to me that people should stop projecting onto their PC so much if something like that in a porn game can upset them. It's bordering on incel shit.

Projecting in a RPG?! Couldn't be me.

 

[Quintilus]

now that he's also in charge of both.

Huh?

 

[Hachikaido]

Like Alterism said, presentation of said goal matters. Yes the goal of both games is to kill the big bad. Problem with this game is that the goal is muddied and makes zero sense after a while.

I know what Alterism said, but what Alterism said and what Devon said are different things. I am more than aware the plot is muddled hence why I said the plot is made by writers of smut. Where I disagree with Alterism and only them is how none of the sub-stories for all the series games don't makes sense by design. That was a tangent I want to express to them only.

When Devon responded to the question of why people here disliked Cait they respond that it all had to do with the story and nothing to do with Cait being the town bike. Then lied about the MC having no goal of their own. At least Alterism responded back how that did not make sense either. I'm calling that out too, because that is what people will say for a book,movie, or game when they dislike for a stupid reason and they're too afraid to say their stupid reason so they place the blame on the story. What Devon said was factually wrong, so I'm correctly stating most people here dislike Cait here because she is the town bike and that his point that MC had no goals of their own is bs reason to defend most everyone here disliking Cait for being a slut. To put it simply, what Aterism said was criticism, what Devon said was BS. Are there reasons people might have to not liking Cait, yeah I can think of a few like just not like the author but that was not what was being discussed.

They were never on a high horse. They stated their thoughts, weren't arrogant about it, and that's it. It doesn't matter if it's right or wrong, you do not have to be condescending just because you do not subscribe to their point of view. You are acting like you know them better than themselves/they are lying because they said a thing you don't agree with. Even if what they said was completely and unequivocally false, you can still have the sense to not put words in their mouth.

Yep go on and ignore themselves setting up to be on the moral high ground when responding to the question being asked. And if were to grant that they were not knowledgeable on the subject, they still chose to speak about things which they know about while claiming it to be the group's opinions. You want me to be less condescending to the person calling Cait the town bike, sure. I'll try to keep the discussion more civil next time, lest we have some feelings hurt by pushback.

There you go, the journey is over. The goal has been accomplished. MC can fuck off and do whatever they want because apparently we're weak as shit and all these NPCs are apparently stronger than us so there's no reason for us to engage with the story anymore.

[Another tangent] I still don't know how you guys even see any of the other npcs as near the player level. The only other ones who I would say is arguable there if not above us is Azzy and Eve when you decide to give them op powers. But remember this, you get to do chose to do that. You choose to make Ryn a capable Queen or not. This is like all the other fen games are a power fantasy through and through. You are the one taking back cities, you are the one saving most of these NPCs and their families. Without you in the story and this is hinted at in some endings the world will fall to ruin. Or are you trying to whine to me how there are characters in the world like the seven and Leoforic (whatever his name is) dude that were already beginning their journey before the MC was even born are somehow stronger than them at the beginning of their journey? This is not an isekai where you're reincarnated as the strongest being on Earth. This is a milder power fantasy that still wants you to at least have some progression or allude to it. This is not the extreme power fantasy you are wanting.

No, we really don't have that option. If you want to engage with any content, you have to push the story forwards.

Also the "don't like it don't play it" argument is fucking stupid in its own right. How about if you don't like people's criticisms you don't look at them? Same logic.

You said it's in your face when it's not. Like the fetishes, you choose who to interact with and how to interact with them are choices given to you. You currently don't have to involve yourself with Cait and if you feel "forced to" in order to access content involving them, you can limit some of the stuff you do with them, you can do almost everything without her. May that change in the future maybe but as of now you can ignore her just like you can not fuck anything in the game that has a dick. You are not gonna like everything in the game it's a given in a game that involves a lot of weird fetishes that's why they let you have options to kill that content, or just ignore it. It's not in your face if there is a button right underneath warning you about the content and asking you if you want to involve yourself in this. You can have your own opinions on things you don't like, feel free to say them, I'm free to respond with criticism of my own to, if you say overreaching statements like "they stuff it in your face" I'm free to respond with no because that's the last thing they are doing".

Does not compute.

Is it that hard to figure out a game be a narrative story and be a mess of story at the same time? I'll be more clear when I say this, all of these games are made to write you into sexual scenarios.

I don't think you do.
Ignoring blatant delegitimization of legitimate complaints, we've already established that the presentation of the MC in CoC/TiTS and CoC2 are different and the impact this has on narrative when juxtaposed with lack of choice. The MC doesn't have a choice in the overarching "story" of CoC and doesn't have a choice on "why" they start the adventure in TiTS. But the player is ultimately responsible on the nature of the adventure and the mark you leave on the world in your wake.

To simplify this and avoid confusion:

• MC has all choices made for them and the game leaves next to no room to RP.
• Corruption as a mechanic and it's resulting impact on character personality is half-baked and underdelivered.
• Post WC (dev wise), the main character has had increasingly little direct impact on how a quest flows or it's conclusion. The biggest "choice" we've had in years is which character gets the super cool dragon powers. (Except if you kick Azzyran in the honey and you don't want to be sodomized by Evelyn you're out of luck.)

I still don't know why you bring in topics I did not bring up nor care to talk about. I have no reason to talk about the tits player having agency in the choices they make after the goal had already been given, that was not part of my point nor was I trying to refute any of that. I just brought up player agency to make fun of people using it as an excuse to have the writing to cater to them. I said don't look deeply into my statement because, I did not see any value in the original comment made, so I made it clear that their "interpretation" of the story was wrong and was handwaving the other issue nothing more nothing less. I don't care about how game mechanics are underused, I'm not ignoring legitimate complaints because those complaints were not legitimate. You giving a lifeline by saying the story of tits is much deeper than I am thinking because the player has the choice to end the story without completing the main story did not have any relation to the point I wanted to make of MCs goals being placed upon them at the start of the game with the exception of COC2 which handled it a slightly different.

Me saying the side quest are minigames does not mean they cannot also not be episodic, that was not the point I was trying to make. I was talking mainly about the side-quest themselves being somewhat isolated from the main story by design to allow the player to push in their wants (RP) where they can. All of this I made with the assumption we were discussing a different topic (hurdles or tits) not theirs. I not gonna argue someone else points trying to mangle back someone else inaccurate statement when it clearly was not what the original author intend to say.

I want to discuss how I don't believe the MC has choices made for them or why you think the player is getting less impact in the story when I think it's actually the opposite but it would annoying as their own separate issue because I want to know why you might think that. But I don't want to argue for points I did not make as if they were mine.

In regards to raw scenes, Cait has more than Kiyoko and she has more than Brienne and there's very few periods of this game where that isn't true and it was for months between the Den getting fleshed out and the whorehouse getting added. Sometime in 2021 IIRC.

This i'll concede on, I was not including smut content as to it being one of the reasons why Cait is so biased against. I was thinking narrowly based on story content but that would not be a fair assessment since smut is one of the more important factors of the game.

But I'd still contest that they have similar levels of content because I do include Kinu as a part of Kiyoko as well as Brint/Bri collectively as the same being. They have more of a divergent path of choices with the main one being to turn Brint into Bri, but because Brint still had those lived experiences which Bri refers back to it makes feel like their the same person and thus body or works. But that is just my opinion.

Nobody gives a fig about the story in borderlands and yet most people agree that Pre-Sequel is particularly bad in both departments and that 3 is negatively impacted and is only redeemed by having arguably the best gunplay in the franchise.

You don't have to care about the story/lore to make observations on why it's negatively impacting your experience. There are a lot of points of contention people have with this game. Laser focusing on one and handwaving the others with reductionist rhetoric "you just hate cait" is poor form.

I think I already said it above about putting words into people's mouths. I'm not arguing on how Cait is bad, i know people might dislike her for multiple reasons, I'm saying the reason they gave does not make sense and the majority of people dislike her for her promiscuity. I am not about to watch people say and agree that no one dislikes cait for that reason when everyone was foaming at their mouths when that mild scene with Cait and Quin was released which alluded to a possible future fling. In fact, I never even alluded to them hating Cait, I said it was in bad form to defend people on this thread to what was such an obvious answer with a bs statement. I don't know how saying a person's assessment of Cait is flawed from a factual standpoint, and I believe they are using it as an excuse to defend an obvious trend on this thread = you hate Cait.

Unless you are gonna argue with me on how my perception of the general consensus on cait (just like how you alluded to people in this thread disliking Kinu) or how saying the MC has no real goal is wrong, feel free to, because that was my main point and it's annoying how this is spiraling away from that for whatever reason. You can talk about how TITs, COC, and COC2 is about this and that or why Cait is a Mary Sue all you want go ahead but it means nothing against my previous point, if the op wants to say they misspoke and did not really mean to say the mc had no goal then let them. If not then I'll go on thinking they made up a lousy reason to excuse the animosity towards Cait in this thread.

Don't give me your justifications as theirs, I don't care why you think people might not like Cait because those are your opinions to make and I did not nor am going to try to refute them unless it is done apart from the previous admission. Because what you three are saying are mutually exclusive things, and it would make no sense to argue against them as if they were one thing when I only disagreed with one of them. If you want to argue their point go ahead tell me how the MC has no major goals. I'm handwaving their assessment, not yours or anyone else.

 

[NaturalEnclave]

It wasn't horrible, just plot hole-y and fucky with the timeline and events a bit. Also, the real problem were stale dialogues, boring characters, even slower map traversal, and LOADS of backtracking. Like, holy fuck did you need to backtrack a lot in this game. Overall it was a worse BL2 with nonexistant villains, I don't even recall one boss from it and I've played it multiple times. It's just... worse, is all.

Oh, it being worse than BL2 I ain't arguing. It it a weird spin-off game that doesn't hit nearly as high in many areas. My impression however was that it was... disappointingly okay. I was talking about the story specifically and, while it sure is worse than BL2, I can't say it makes the overall storyline actually worse. It felt like a solid addition to the world and the lore of some characters. Compare it to Borderlands 3, where most fans would prefer it's storyline to just... not exist because it makes the entire storyline built across 4 games worse and practically ruins it.

 

[Biostar]

New Nyze content and you can't access it at this point. Good job.

 

[Walk Cycle]

Can't imagine what the future of both projects looks like now that he's also in charge of both.

Huh?

Yeah, I thought Fen is back in charge of TiTS? He even coded in Azra's latest scene and written/coded in the Dhaal Probe Dungeon months back.

 

[Wrynn13]

Yeah, I thought Fen is back in charge of TiTS? He even coded in Azra's latest scene and written/coded in the Dhaal Probe Dungeon months back.

Fen is back? I hadn't heard that but is good news cause even though Fen has some serious issues he is worlds better than Savin who I expected to run TiTS into the ground. That would explain why Fen is back of course, because money.

 

[Deviton123]

Projecting in a RPG?! Couldn't be me.

Sometimes it's hard to even do that. There are moments when my PC speaks I imagine a kid with blue hair on Tik Tok.

 

[Alterism]

Wait, do people actually think that Pre-Sequel story was bad? I kinda felt like it was a great addition to the lore of the game. Sure, not all of the characters you engage with are as good as BL2, but in general I felt like it was good. I mostly heard about people being upset over it being a) it's typical borderlands, but everyone are Australian and b) How dare they imply that Vault Hunters, mercenaries that arrived to Pandora mostly to get rich, would do something morally questionable.

Most people were uh... Less than enthused about the presentation of the story. Like does it do it's own share over hooplah? Sure does. But, it doesn't have some egregious nonsense like Jack Solid Snaking Roland and collaring one of the most powerful Sirens at this point.
There's tons of inconsistency though and the characters are pretty awful. And I think the only game I've played that had more backtracking than that game was Star Ocean 5 where 80% of that game has you going back and forth across the same 4 maps.
Budget constraints are no joke, people.

Because it's "If Route X [Character] is capable of doing that, then doesn't that mean Route Y [Character] is also capable of doing that?" Then you have to metagame to justify why they wouldn't and say "Well Route Y [Character] wouldn't because that's not the route I'm on," which means kiss your immersion goodbye.

Spoiler: Minor tits spoilers

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Anyways, I agree with everything you said in your post. But, I wanted to point out that even if I'm pretty 'selfish' in regards to porn game attention, I believe that mostly only applies to "true romance" type relationships. And I think it's still possible to make it work there with exceptional writing acumen. Obviously most people don't have it, which is why it typically blows up in peoples faces. It's a significantly big ask in writing for a character to say you're special and commit to you entirely and that same character project these same emotions to anybody else when put in a different situations.

And I can't really say this is limited to porn games.

Harvest Moon (now Story of Seasons) used to have "rivals" who would pair up with the bachelors/bachelorettes you didn't marry. IIRC the primary reasons that got removed were because the rival you "beat" would be alone forever, that there were canon pairings (which leads back to the former point), some games you lost out on content with the person you paired with, and various event blockings. As well as miscellaneous minor reasons from the player base which I'm sure you can intuit on your own.

That is to say that if a franchise with that sort of pedigree is making these kinds of adjustments. You yourself need to be pretty freaking good to bend players boundaries and work against lessons most media have learned over decades inside the industry.

And unfortunately nobody in the writing team possess that sort of raw literary talent to accomplish this for many people here. Well. For me personally Hugs made me care about Berwynn so there's that.
But for the rest?
They come on to the things they're trying to "nudge" you towards with all the subtlety of a brass knuckled punch to the face.

Can't imagine what the future of both projects looks like now that he's also in charge of both.

He's lead writer but he's not head big schlong in charge of the game. I mean if we're going to be meta for a second. TiTS is in dire straits to begin with. That conversion to JS essentially nuking community writers due to it's length along, the coders dealing with years of tech debt, CoC2 happening and snatching up most of the writers, and Fenoxo's (seemingly improved now) morale.

But given that Fen seems to be back in force I'm looking forward to the future given he was clearly the glue holding things together and his defacto absence behind the scenes was absolutely felt.

That you can shut down entirely should you wish and nothing ever comes of it afterwards. I'd understand if she went behind your back like, I wanna say, Amily in the first CoC. But she doesn't. It's dropped.

Eh...
I get the point you're trying to make but "shut down" is only in relation to Liaden. And if memory serves it wasn't even an option you had when they first introduced that character.

Clicking that button disables Liaden with the bee making it known that she's still going to be fucking around.

And if you give her the dragon spear she doesn't stop talking about how she's going to take everything and everyone as her hive wife. Though at least with that decision you know what the character is about. There's no way to extricate yourself from Azzyrans relationship by the time you get to this point.

Anyways the only game with a snub that blatant that I've seen in recent memory was an early update in WoFF. Let me see if I can't find it:

Here it is

"If you want, we've given you the power to skip Champion and Mega Mirage animations with the O button, completely invalidating the work of dozens of artists with a single squeeze of your almighty, indifferent thumb."

Dang. Shots fired.

Although I'm sure it was all in good humor.
(Probably)
Though honestly, even if it wasn't, they at least did it anyways because the entertainment of the audience is the bottom line.


That aside, to get a bit serious now the game world tries to warm the player into NPCx NPC polyamory by introducing it in multiple steps and I don't believe it's succeeding at all. Very few people care about either pair of stylists. Nearly nobody talks about the demon couple in the undermountain. Most people here reject Liaden (and Azzyran). I'm not sure the general consensus of that Berwyn/Mathia poly stuff is. Maybe it's the only relationship of that fashion that isn't openly reviled here? Who knows. I stopped caring about things like this long before I ended up pulling my hat out of the patreon.

Amily and Urta caused a lot of... er... 'friction' when it happened. Fen after a fashion took it in a way, learned from the experience, and grew as a writer. Would that I could say the same about others.

Lastly

It really seems to me that people should stop projecting onto their PC so much if something like that in a porn game can upset them. It's bordering on incel shit.

Spoiler: mini tangent

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This kind of labelling because their emotional response differs from your emotional response is something I'm going to have to disagree with.

 

[muschi26]

Nearly nobody talks about the demon couple in the undermountain.

I think they look pretty neat (especially Caera)—but they’re dickgirls, is the thing.

As for Liaden and Azyrran, I’m fine with them when playing a FMC, and do my best to ignore them when playing a MMC.

This kind of labelling because their emotional response differs from your emotional response is something I'm going to have to disagree with.

Yeah, that’s always kind of funny to me. The whole point of art is to get people to resonate emotionally with it; and the purpose of a customizable MC is that it makes it easier for players to slip into their skin or “project”. Not every work affects everyone the same way, but deep down, that’s what the devs are trying to do—least one could do is not make light of it when it works LOL.

 

[Lucky_I]

I stand by what I said. I think it's foolish to project so much onto a PC that you can get genuinely upset and have actual grievances at the goings on within a porn game of all things. That doesn't mean I don't advocate for people having FEELINGS, that's a fucking absurd statement, but there is such a thing as being TOO attached and needing to take a step back and practice a bit of temperance.

 

[Deviton123]

This reminds me that B is doing a thing with frostwyrms where another can come along and breed a purebred frostwyrm with your "potential" soulmate with text stingers that they'll need to be fucking a lot more to repopulate the race with purebreds (guess your halfbreeds just aren't the same after all).

I swear these people wonder whether they could and never stop to think whether they should. If they ever have the oppurtunity to rewrite every romance story, one of them would be called: "When Harry met Sally, Sally meets Larry, then Terry, then Jerry, Harry ocassionally meets Mary, then they all group up together, but Harry mostly watches". Anime title worthy, but you can't deny the accuracy.

 

[Tau_Iota]

Snip

Yeah. Pretty much. Like I said, I understand the people that see routes they are not on and still get upset. Like I said, it's understanding they're capable of doing that, and you could logically infer that it's always been a part of them route or not.

I stand by what I said. I think it's foolish to project so much onto a PC that you can get genuinely upset and have actual grievances at the goings on within a porn game of all things. That doesn't mean I don't advocate for people having FEELINGS, that's a fucking absurd statement, but there is such a thing as being TOO attached and needing to take a step back and practice a bit of temperance.

The world of Corruption of Champions has been around for almost 13 years (Unnamed Text Game that became CoC1 started popping up in 2010), of course people might have a soft spot for it. And also, why does the fact that there's sex in the game make it any less of value? Why should I have to distance my feelings because there's sex in the piece of media I'm currently consuming?

What you said was absurd, and I'll give you an absurd story of when I was younger when an absurd piece of media made me upset. My brother and I played Castle Crashers when it first came out together. Completed the whole thing, but he got three out of the four princesses. Being a decent older brother, he was like "Ah fine, you're the orange knight you can have the orange princess." The fucking range of emotions I felt when I

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(Castle Crashers spoiler in link). I was mad, I was upset, I was shocked, and I was laughing. Fucking Castle Crashers, a game made by Tom Fulp and Dan Paladin. If a literal meme game can make people feel more than "Haha funni" then why can't a porn game?

We're talking about our likes and dislikes in a (mostly) civil manner. I don't see where the "temperance" is needed.

Side note: No my brother didn't know what happens when you kiss the orange princess lmao

 

[Wrynn13]

I think the level of upset at things gets conflated. Disliking content does no have to mean full on frothing rage. I have a huge amount of disdain for Savin but that does no mean I walk around with a constant (metaphorical) hateboner for the guy. I find it very strange that any stated point of view expressed seems to get interpreted to the max. And to head off the inevitable "well you posted about it on a forum, you must care a great deal." argument, doing so takes very little time or effort so no.