Someone should make a mod that's just called Power Fantasy. The story is mostly the same, but there's little interjections the player can make to just fuck over whoever might be causing the player problems that day. Steal girls from people just because you can, have a dedicated fuck off button where the player can just insult whoever they're talking to seemingly at random, and the ability to kick certain characters directly in the balls at your leisure.
Alright, I am kinda curious, so I'll probably need historians for this.
What are the exact origins of "Power Fantasy"? At this point, it's practically a meme, yet I wasn't able to find too many posts on the official forums explain that exact vision. Cause part of me wants to be a devil's advocate and see what was the context of that phrase originally to know if people are twisting and taking this idea out of context. Or, alternatively, I want to see what sort of weird concept of "no power fantasy" devs took that resulted in current state of the game.
I believe it started a very long time ago, and grew as time went on. It all began with them cutting out player's transformation options. It started gradually, with cutting out such transformations as centaur lower body and lamia lower body. Then they started cutting down player's agency.
As time went on, it kept snowballing into "pOweR FaNtasY, Reeee!!1" we all know and hate.
That's also the reason why there's such a distinct tonal whiplash between older quests and newer quests when one compares them side by side.
Alright, I am kinda curious, so I'll probably need historians for this.
What are the exact origins of "Power Fantasy"? At this point, it's practically a meme, yet I wasn't able to find too many posts on the official forums explain that exact vision. Cause part of me wants to be a devil's advocate and see what was the context of that phrase originally to know if people are twisting and taking this idea out of context. Or, alternatively, I want to see what sort of weird concept of "no power fantasy" devs took that resulted in current state of the game.
Alright, I am kinda curious, so I'll probably need historians for this.
What are the exact origins of "Power Fantasy"? At this point, it's practically a meme, yet I wasn't able to find too many posts on the official forums explain that exact vision. Cause part of me wants to be a devil's advocate and see what was the context of that phrase originally to know if people are twisting and taking this idea out of context. Or, alternatively, I want to see what sort of weird concept of "no power fantasy" devs took that resulted in current state of the game.
Yeah, that's kinda what expected. It's just that part of me wonders if there was some copypasta worthy original messages that started the whole thing preserved in some archives or something like that.
Alright, I am kinda curious, so I'll probably need historians for this.
What are the exact origins of "Power Fantasy"? At this point, it's practically a meme, yet I wasn't able to find too many posts on the official forums explain that exact vision. Cause part of me wants to be a devil's advocate and see what was the context of that phrase originally to know if people are twisting and taking this idea out of context. Or, alternatively, I want to see what sort of weird concept of "no power fantasy" devs took that resulted in current state of the game.
Let's see Thumbs through tombs of history
I'm sure I have it here somewhere. Savin went into greater detail awhile back about it
Fairly reasonable on the surface.
As for why it's a meme?
Aside from the usual from Savin himself:
It's been used by a variety of writers to shut down options, berate fellows in arguments, and general be used as to why "no actually you won't get to flip the tables on the minotaur guards" and what have you
Most of the time perpetuated by the main man and TobS
Most push back, back when it happened got waved off as wanting power fantasy. So now it's used by the other non discord communities (oh wait they're all dead) as a joke when somebody asks for anything that could benefit the player experience.
Let's see Thumbs through tombs of history
I'm sure I have it here somewhere. Savin went into greater detail awhile back about it
Fairly reasonable on the surface.
As for why it's a meme?
Aside from the usual from Savin himself:
It's been used by a variety of writers to shut down options, berate fellows in arguments, and general be used as to why "no actually you won't get to flip the tables on the minotaur guards" and what have you
Most of the time perpetuated by the main man and TobS
Most push back, back when it happened got waved off as wanting power fantasy. So now it's used by the other non discord communities (oh wait they're all dead) as a joke when somebody asks for anything that could benefit the player experience.
3. Actually meaningful branches in the narrative, maybe?
By the by, bad things happening and there being “just nothing you can do about it” is pretty insipid. The more interesting idea is to have bad things come about as a consequence of you making tough decisions, as in the example he gave from The Witcher.
It doesn’t matter if you’ve become the Dark Lord three times on your playthroughs of DS1; some naked zombie with a torch can still kill you if you aren’t paying attention.
But if you are paying attention, you can get through the entire game without getting hit a single time. This is also a weird comparison, because it has to do purely with the mechanical aspects of Dark Souls, and not the various sidequests (which is where the branching and “bad things happening despite all your efforts” take place).
3. Actually meaningful branches in the narrative, maybe?
By the by, bad things things and there being “just nothing you can do about it” is pretty insipid. The more interesting idea is to have bad things come about as a consequence of you making tough decisions, as in the example he gave from The Witcher.
But if you are paying attention, you can get through the entire game without getting hit a single time. This is also a weird comparison, because it has to do purely with the mechanical aspects of Dark Souls, and not the various sidequests (which is where the branching and “bad things happening despite all your efforts” take place).
As to the topic Savin's talking about where things don't go your way in the souls series.
The other side of this is that things actually DO go your way in Souls games. The gameplay is stacked against you but you have the opportunity to succeed and succeed in style. Regardless of what the 'cannon' endings eventually end up being you have the option of choice.
This starts all~ the way to the fact that you can axe anybody. Some of which DO need axing. Yurt the silent Chef cooking up something nefarious in DeS? Impress him with the dish which consists of gravity and high velocity impact which produces quite the impressive Yurt shaped pancake.
This freedom expresses itself in everything (provided the player has the skill). Cast anything, be anything, choose your own ending. Help Ostrava to the end or pop him early for an early key to Old Burger King's shop of oneshot. Rescue Solaire or *ahem* let him find his sun. Get married, become bacon, or blow out the candles.
NPCs may have a terrible fate happen to them. Astraea's days were always numbered, for example. But, this is hardly something you as a player care about when it comes to taking satisfaction from the game.
Mind you, Savin has a bit of a point. There are a lot of games on this website where Chad McThundercock MC only needs to look at a woman and she trips over friends and family to take his manhood into herself. All while he has the most repulsive personality known to mankind.
There has to be balance in all things. The main goal after all is entertainment. You need a strong narrative, likeable characters, a solid plot, good setting, and great flow of the adventure.
I may despise 'golden' endings in games with every fiber of my being. This is specifically because of the obscure requirements to even reach them where they show up. But, I can't deny the fulfillment you can get when you get the ending where almost everybody is happy
Unless you're playing an NTRPG
That's probably the only genre of game where the main goal isn't to make the player attach themselves to their world proxy for the purpose of personal gratification. Err... Depending on the game, at any rate.
TiTS and CoC2 is just a bunch of "oh this might be interesting one day at some point"s thrown into a small folder and mostly depend on my working memory to keep straight.
Now the working tomes I actually make for things I DO like?
Between the compiling, checklists of things relevant to me, sheets, formulas, presentation (even though it will never be shared ever ever), and more?
Yeah that uh... That takes awhile
A habit born from writing guides and writing articles in my youth.
Right just gonna butt in and say that is the most insulting thing i've heard someone say about a hitless run in dark souls it takes thousands of hours to memorise the patterns learn when to dodge and on top of that the mental pressure is insane for you to boil it down to just pay attention bruh hurts my soul
Right just gonna butt in and say that is the most insulting thing i've heard someone say about a hitless run in dark souls it takes thousands of hours to memorise the patterns learn when to dodge and on top of that the mental pressure is insane for you to boil it down to just pay attention bruh hurts my soul
That’s not the point I was trying to make at all. What I meant is that the combat of Dark Souls—which Savin was using as an example of how things could go wrong—is a poor parallel; because unlike say the sidequests in that game (which usually go wrong in some way regardless of what you do), the combat is 100% in the player’s hands and—with total mastery, as you rightfully point out—can be executed flawlessly, achieving a perfect result. (The equivalent in a VN would be making all the right choices and getting the secret harem ending.) This goes against what Savin was trying to demonstrate, namely that things go wrong and the player can do nothing about it.
At least there's an Anon mod for CoC so I can just let the chans purge the retarded shit, even if some of the content isn't finished either, but at least they weren't the main developer of the game.
I think Savin played a Rance game and he was mentally shocked that Alicesoft can make decent games with a lot of rape and now he tries to make all of his asshole male characters emulate Rance in some idolization of him, except Rance still has more personality to him than anything he produces.
There are a lot of games on this website where Chad McThundercock MC only needs to look at a woman and she trips over friends and family to take his manhood into herself.
COC2 follows exactly the same rule. Almost, if not all, characters provide access to their sex scenes after single question 'whats your name?'. Hookups in the bar for a quick fuck require more talks than this...
The only exception that I can name straight up is tobsed drunk fox. Probably there are more.
COC2 follows exactly the same rule. Almost, if not all, characters provide access to their sex scenes after single question 'whats your name?'. Hookups in the bar for a quick fuck require more talks than this...
The only exception that I can name straight up is tobsed drunk fox. Probably there are more.
You yourself also have to wait like 5 days and then do a mission to be able to fuck with you. There's also Elyon and the new fox husband who require quests.
It's been used by a variety of writers to shut down options, berate fellows in arguments, and general be used as to why "no actually you won't get to flip the tables on the minotaur guards" and what have you
Most of the time perpetuated by the main man and TobS
This especially annoys me, you literally have them at your mercy and yet you can't inflict upon them anything close to what they would have done to you.
Thank you gamer, I knew I could rely on you.
As you said - Savin has a point. I don't really envy a lot of porn game developers, because at the end of the day, not every player enters the game with a clear state of mind. There is a group of people that would legit prefer CoC2's story to get even worse just to make having sex easier and more akin to their horny head state where they want Chad Thundercock as MC.
Yet at the same time, this valid viewpoint has been corrupted over the years and is basically used as an excuse for any time players feel dissatisfied with not having agency. I think it happened for two main reasons. The first one is what I said above - a bunch of people with awful requests pretending like they know how to make a story better via making it all about player's power. Second one, is, in my opinion, CoC1 balance being iffy in some moments and letting you have insane power. That's why Savin used Dark Souls as example - not from the lore and story perspective, but from the idea of never being in a position where it's impossible to fail. Afaik, CoC2 is unplayable without companions - going solo will cause you to be defeated because the game isn't balanced around the MC being powerful enough to solo everything and everyone.
COC2 follows exactly the same rule. Almost, if not all, characters provide access to their sex scenes after single question 'whats your name?'. Hookups in the bar for a quick fuck require more talks than this...
This is also correct. So I don't think the whole "Power Fantasy" was about CoC2 not being a game where the world spins around the player - you aren't some all powerful solo hero who can overcome any challenge. And, arguably, it would make the game waaay better in terms of narrative. The issue is... well, the fact that it really seems like the writing is simply not good enough where it feels like MC is practically an observer who exists to look at cool OCs of the writers who are actual protagonists. Which, once again, I think could work potentially, but requires REALLY good writing an EXACT knowledge of themes and ideas of the story, which CoC2 100% doesn't have and I'd argue could never have had given how many writers it has and how they don't talk to each other judging by some scenes.
To be the devil advocate, I do think most posts on forums where devs mention not being power fantasy are more often than not are responses to less than... reasonable critique from the players who might have even worse ideas as to what the story should be. But at the end of the day - if CoC2 had really good story, we wouldn't even have this conversation. The whole "no power fantasy" wouldn't be seen as a meme, but as a good philosophy to make an actually engaging RPG narrative.
Right just gonna butt in and say that is the most insulting thing i've heard someone say about a hitless run in dark souls it takes thousands of hours to memorise the patterns learn when to dodge and on top of that the mental pressure is insane for you to boil it down to just pay attention bruh hurts my soul
TheImage
