Others Corruption of Champions II [v0.7.15] [Savin/Salamander Studios]

[Shiro15]

If the team for CoC 2 is working on this game full time, then I would say their output is kind of slow or at the very least mismanaged. Which since this started as a two man project, and they are constantly having artistic direction conflicts that has seen at least two people leave the project (I only know that Berwyn and Eryka original creators left) I can't imagine them working in the most efficient way.

It should be noted that most indie games only have 1-3 writers. I know most indie games aren't a text based porn game, but it seems every reoccurring character in this game has their owner writer who is working specifically on that character. This is honestly a terrible idea imo. It would honestly be a nightmare to write character interactions or give the characters a meaningful role in the games story. This is probably why every character feels so disconnected from the main story or don't really interact with the other party members unless you're having a threesome. This is basically the equivalent of playing the telephone game.

But hey who cares its just a porn game. It's not like its a product that is being funded and bought by other people. Oh wait...well I didn't buy it.

 

[zwagon]

If most of the fans seem to like it and Tobs is just writing to please his yes men. Then fine. I don't mind being in the minority in this case. I think the kitsune stuff is mediocre at best. I kinda wish it was more meaningful to interact with them, as the Kitsune content seems to be the only thing ever getting an update.

Don't fool yourself, Tobs writes for himself. For a long period of time, he refused to be a paid member of the team.

 

[ankhtar]

I suppose Kiyoko fans can just be glad that she isn't as adored as Brienne, otherwise Savin would also want to put his cucking paws on her.
That's not a purposeful typo for once, I mean it literally.

 

[Kroenen12]

Do people know what poly means?

uhhhh in real life?
No
Me dumb

ingame?
Poly= open relationship/fuck around
"Monogamy and polygamy are equally accepted among the minotaurs; it is not uncommon for a female to couple with multiple males or for a male to have a 'harem' of multiple females, though many pair and remain monogamous for life."

 

[Lance Lot]

Not trying to take a shot at the devs here. I'm just saying that the numbers seem pretty big for a game that gives out a patch like this:

• New win scene for the Crazy Horses of Harvest Valley (by BubbleChaser)
• New Codex: Spells & Magic
• Lyla’s talks have been edited for worldbuilding consistency
• Quin has more dialogue and options in various quests
• Many bugfixes
• Vitruvius has a new bust (by DCL)

Tbf the devs were already coding Berwyn stuff weren't they? They jsut released this to not hold the patch for too long.
Besides, this is a public patch, those are always smaller. This one was still smaller than those normally are, but they expected Berwyn to ship with it.

 

[MoneyMan181]

Tbf the devs were already coding Berwyn stuff weren't they? They jsut released this to not hold the patch for too long.
Besides, this is a public patch, those are always smaller. This one was still smaller than those normally are, but they expected Berwyn to ship with it.

They've said they've been coding it for like a month now(maybe longer idk). Regardless, a good amount of updates are still pretty damn small comparative to the amount of work that should be getting done in theory. One update I can think of was just adding the wayfort maids, corrupted lupines, a new item, and some busts. Pretty small for a calculated collective 200 hours of work time, no?

 

[Zerorox]

I'm afraid in the end it Will become a kinetic novel with no real choises with cuck MC lol

 

[MissBlackthorne]

Back when I wrote for the CoC Mod (did stuff for UE and for HGG) I legit wrote a new armor that came with new masturbation scenes, a new win scene and stuff like that. It was over 6k words just for those bits and while I dont recall specifically how long it took to write, I know hours wise it was likely less than a week, and that was while I was working and living in an abusive household where I never felt safe.

 

[smithsmithsmith]

So then get a real coder so that this shit isn't a bottleneck. Get another reviewer so this shit isn't a bottleneck. You said it yourself, this game is making quite a bit of money. Moreso than most indie projects. The game is making almost 400k a year. That's just under 5 people making 80k a year. 2k less from each person solves that issue, so it's 78k.

If they were to hire another coder wouldn't that be closer to a 16k paycut to each of them if they were hiring said new coder for 80k? Or if they instead split the money evenly amongst the now 6 of them it would be a 13.4k ish paycut. Unless you're proposing the new guy only gets 10k a year. Dunno about you but I'd be pretty cheesed off if I was suddenly told I was losing between 20% and 16% of my pay.

 

[destroyerofassholes]

Gib Berwyn update.

 

[confusedcommoner]

Words. Edit: Post was deleted so here's an attempt at paraphrasing:
"There are 9 members of staff, so when the money is split they don't make all that much money, even before tax.
They produce a lot of content when you compare it to big games like Being a DIK (and others) considering how long they take to update.
[In a separate post:] I read that 1000 words/day is a good pace for a professional writer, idk how accurate that is. At 1000words/day it'd take about 50 days per writer to produce a large piece of content."

Staff writers: Savin, Skow, Tobs (

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), Wsan
Coders: Upcastdrake, Balak(?), [Edit: Leek?]
Artists: Moira is staff or heavily commissioned, anyone else is rare commissions
Commissioned writers: B, Alypia (recent), Jstar (recent)
Very slow/infrequent commissioned writers: Bubblelord, Gardeford(?), anyone else, but most community writers aren't paid and Bub/Garde aren't paid for everything.

I don't think they're taking home incredible bank from this game individually because of the splits, but your split estimate is off. We're also not including Steam sales of at least 16,000 at $10~ USD (

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) [Edit: we're also ignoring their subscribestar with 355 subs]. It's not very productive to pretend we have a perfect idea of what a 1:1 pay-to-workflow model should look like for this team, but when you compare what gets in the game and what one man developers, like Being a DIK (DrPinkCake) from your example, can produce in a game that requires text and rendered graphics, they don't look very good.

A large issue with your defense is that it's entirely quantitative and ignores qualitative issues: target audience, subjective writing quality, bugs, and typos. BADIK has one writer and a decently focused target audience that will engage with most of the content in the game without much issue, while CoC2 has such a wide net of content matter and writers that updates will leave people out, which effectively means no content for them, and is something you've fairly complained about before. Almost every single significant CoC2 patch has a bug that requires a hotfix for a game-breaking or content-breaking issue, and the vast majority of bug reports and typos are ignored or take months to address. Drifa took them weeks (or months, depends on how you frame it) to implement, while it took a hobbyist a couple days. "Reviewing" is a very strong word for what they do considering how many glaring issues you can notice at a first glance each patch, so I'm not sure how there's a "huge" queue.

The 1000 word/day target you mentioned before is from people trying to produce professionally edited, reviewed, and marketed literature, not passable smut. I do agree it's hard to churn out large wordcounts without writing quality suffering or burnout, but despite taking on more staff, and community & commission writers, updates have only gotten smaller lately. It's so obvious that they're releasing

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, and backers might only get 1 or 2 updates instead of

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. I was willing to give them a generous pass when they stumbled over the Winter holidays, and for poor coding a year ago, but what is the excuse at this point, 3+ years in?

I don't know how you can look at the evidence and not conclude that they're either lazy or incompetent, by intention or not. It's very hard to maintain goodwill.

 

[smithsmithsmith]

snip

I'm not really sold on the comparison with BaDIK. I've not played it but flicking through the walkthrough it comes across as a fairly linear VN with a simple moral choice system, the main thing it affects is which girls you can pursue and even then if the reviews are accurate you don't get many options on that front when it comes to actual storyline branches. As for the graphics, most of the time investment comes from building and rigging the models, posing them is fairly quick. If the thread is accurate he buys his models from Daz3d. There's an impressive amount of stuff overall but I'd argue it's a far simpler game to produce for.

 

[Tau_Iota]

Wow, come back to almost 20 pages of back and forth. I expected more

Gedan may or may not be inexperienced, but they're also split up between CoC2 and TiTS. Honestly, it seems like they desperately need another coder or two if they're dumping workloads on one person for two different games. Gedan is probably paid from both projects, so splitting up another between the two/letting Gedan focus on one seems to be the only option to stop the awful bottleneck that CoC2 has.

tl;dr Savin and Co don't wanna shell out for a coder they desperately need, and instead meme about the "backlogs". Actually feel bad for Gedan, probably out of their element but needs the work

 

[confusedcommoner]

snip

Like I said, I think this is the least significant part to discuss, but BaDIK definitely takes more work than a text based html game, even though Ren'Py is also a simple engine. I agree Daz3d can be "simple" when you have everything set up, but you still have to do graphics for each scene, which is an extra bottleneck. If you were to add multiple decent computer graphics (CG), or even a singular CG, to each and every CoC2 scene I don't think you can honestly argue it would become easier to produce content for. Characters are regularly implemented without a bust ready lately, as an easy example. If you were to add an equivalent like transforming Brint into Brienne to BaDIK, you have now doubled your number of renders, posing, and framing whenever that character is used, which is definitely not simpler than producing the same thing for CoC2.

BaDIK is definitely linear at its core, but CoC2 itself is bafflingly linear for a text-based game. If CoC2 even has routes for something, it likely isn't even close to parity with its counterpart(s) e.g. corrupt hive, corrupt centaur village, independent wayfort, corrupt champs sharing most of their dialogue with pure champs...

TL;DR One person having to produce graphics on top of writing and coding is absolutely more "complex" than a team only writing and coding. Also I'd suggest you play both games before making that claim.

 

[MarcusDBlack]

snip

More seriously using a game walkthrough a your base for your argument to judge a game length/quality/plot is strange and not that great and a daz3d is 'simpler game to produce' than a smut text-based game ?
My brother in christ a least play the epilogue or something before saying madness like that

 

[smithsmithsmith]

More seriously using a game walkthrough a your base for your argument to judge a game length/quality/plot is strange and not that great and a daz3d is 'simpler game to produce' than a smut text-based game ?
My brother in christ a least play the epilogue or something before saying madness like that

I'll pass, I've got 0 interest in what looks like a fairly boilerplate chad thundercock game, sorry if I touched a nerve though. I didn't comment on the quality of the prose for the obvious reason that I didn't read any of it, the walkthrough + reviews was the best overview I could be bothered to find. I mentioned the length because the walkthrough is split into two parts, one 157 pages long and the other 187 pages long, however every step seemed to just be "choose this option for good boy points or the other option for bad boy points" hence linear. As for the game being simple to produce, renpy games with daz3d models are a dime a dozen. They're not quite the RPGM base tileset of first time game dev but they're not far off. While in theory a HTML game is even simpler the sheer nature of how many characters and variables interact within CoC2 likely makes actually changing anything that wasn't added very recently into a complete nightmare, it's a formula for some amazing spaghetti code.

 

[Another Myth]

While fighting over the same thing we were fighting about for the past few weeks is fun, we should also consider that most of the staff is busy with massive project and while I also find the last patch insulting berry quest is supposed to be a shitload of content so I think it should restore the balance (apparently its also been a coding disaster and these coders are the same ones who took eons to code drifa in)

From some discord chatter these are some of the projects I've heard are currently been written.

Wsan: BRIHAUS and Collosseum (more of the moo mines stuff)
SKOW: Shark people quest
Garde: lumia stuff
Savin: Rynquest (from what I've heard the quest itself is about done, contributions from other writers (fleep and someone else) probably some dick stuff for ryn pending
Observer: I have no idea
Bubs: has been busy with haidriana for God know how long, probably not massive

The 9-10 thing happens for a few months every year with this game it kinda doesn't even bother me anymore but they always revert back to a weekly schedule (it's been worse this year by the way)

Anyway what are y'all looking forward to ?

 

[Wrynn13]

Looking forward to Valkyrie transformation stuff, I find it odd if you go full frost elf but with dove wings you count as wyld elf somehow... Didn't realize Garde was actively working on it, thought it was still in the way off pile.

 

[Kroenen12]

Anyway what are y'all looking forward to ?

-Triple marriage (Brienne/Rina/Cassia)
-Brienne gym
-Hadriana
-Arena stuff
-Alante content/marriage
-Fem Asgeir (Genderbend) milf, muscle, wolf...

 

[Evizzy89]

Again, saying this is completely pointless and almost feels like you're insulting my intelligence. I understand why things are the way they are, that doesn't mean they should be this way. This is not any less neutral considering you're speaking objectively lmao.

So then get a real coder so that this shit isn't a bottleneck. Get another reviewer so this shit isn't a bottleneck. You said it yourself, this game is making quite a bit of money. Moreso than most indie projects. The game is making almost 400k a year. That's just under 5 people making 80k a year. 2k less from each person solves that issue, so it's 78k. So for game development to have this little content every week for theoretically 5 people working on it 8 hours a day 5 days a week is kind of strange. Especially when you consider the fact that all of this is "amateur" work as you put it. Something has to be up behind the scenes because the work - output ratio doesn't seem to be there. And I assume a big part of it comes from the fact that authors can't freely interact with each other's work, which as Shiro put it, leads to it feeling like a game of telephone.

Not trying to take a shot at the devs here. I'm just saying that the numbers seem pretty big for a game that gives out a patch like this:

• New win scene for the Crazy Horses of Harvest Valley (by BubbleChaser)
• New Codex: Spells & Magic
• Lyla’s talks have been edited for worldbuilding consistency
• Quin has more dialogue and options in various quests
• Many bugfixes
• Vitruvius has a new bust (by DCL)

dont diss the update it took 5 people and 40k to produce this
D=D=


sidenote idc how much they make or how little content they put on tbh the only thing im wondering about is the lack of pictures, like with a 40k budget I would assume they could toss in a few pics theres enough people I doubt they would even have to pay


this game just confuses me

because there is many games out here with 1/10th the budget that drop bigger updates monthly, with animated hand drawn, voiced scenes, with way better dialogue and writing


SO CONFUSED...

so... 5 people... 1 person pays someone to write/and or writes then someone else gets paid to correct that persons writing and then 1 person codes (and that coder is split between 2 games), and the other 3 jerk off?

did i get the workflow correct or am I missing somthing?
honestly the updates have the workflow of a solo dev thats where my confusion is
what im understanding they essentially have 1 person working on the project fulltime?(Gedan?)
while everyone else jerks off and deals with the money
give that man a raise!