Others Corruption of Champions II [v0.7.15] [Savin/Salamander Studios]

[A Burning Conscience]

If the worst thing about them is they leave you wanting more, then I think it's safe to say there are bigger things to worry about when it comes to CoC2 writers.
Now if that was a critique of their bedroom performance...
As to Agni, she's... fine... very barebones, barely any content, nothing really unique to the game aside from her introduction and concept, but then she's another character who falls victim to the intro, 3 sex scenes and done, trap.
I'd still rank Berwyn's end as worst B content, but that's because of the baggage surrounding it more than the writing.

 

[Heremus]

If the worst thing about them is they leave you wanting more, then I think it's safe to say there are bigger things to worry about when it comes to CoC2 writers.
Now if that was a critique of their bedroom performance...
As to Agni, she's... fine... very barebones, barely any content, nothing really unique to the game aside from her introduction and concept, but then she's another character who falls victim to the intro, 3 sex scenes and done, trap.
I'd still rank Berwyn's end as worst B content, but that's because of the baggage surrounding it more than the writing.

You forgot the "turn futa" option for Agni, too. Though I sorta enjoyed it briefly, it isn't really something that makes a difference, which fits the barebones point.

 

[CluelessReader]

I'm not sure if anyone has said this, but I feel like there was a massive opportunity missed with Cait being revealed to have been a disguised demon working with Kassyrra, back before they made the entire point of 'stop the corruption' feel moot with everyone already being sex addicts

It works if you look at the beginning of the game. Cait manages to 'miraculously' escape the Cult, the only person that was traveling with her ends up getting sacrificed before you can learn anything, she decides to 'accompany' The Player in their journey, and 'just so happens' to be in a religion that believes in casual sex.
Would have been one hell of a twist at the end of the game for Cait to leave your party and appear on the enemy's side.

 

[M0nte]

I'm not sure if anyone has said this, but I feel like there was a massive opportunity missed with Cait being revealed to have been a disguised demon working with Kassyrra, back before they made the entire point of 'stop the corruption' feel moot with everyone already being sex addicts

It works if you look at the beginning of the game. Cait manages to 'miraculously' escape the Cult, the only person that was traveling with her ends up getting sacrificed before you can learn anything, she decides to 'accompany' The Player in their journey, and 'just so happens' to be in a religion that believes in casual sex.
Would have been one hell of a twist at the end of the game for Cait to leave your party and appear on the enemy's side.

That sounds like a slap to the face to all Cait fans.

 

[Raf-Raf]

I'm not sure if anyone has said this, but I feel like there was a massive opportunity missed with Cait being revealed to have been a disguised demon working with Kassyrra, back before they made the entire point of 'stop the corruption' feel moot with everyone already being sex addicts

It works if you look at the beginning of the game. Cait manages to 'miraculously' escape the Cult, the only person that was traveling with her ends up getting sacrificed before you can learn anything, she decides to 'accompany' The Player in their journey, and 'just so happens' to be in a religion that believes in casual sex.
Would have been one hell of a twist at the end of the game for Cait to leave your party and appear on the enemy's side.

I already experienced that kind of story from a happy game called Black Souls with a better twist at that.
If they'll try that sort of path, I can already see it in a way where it's written with so many cliches that anyone with a brain, no matter what the size WILL see it.

 

[muschi26]

corruption =/= sex

 

[Heremus]

That sounds like a slap to the face to all Cait fans.

I mean, with the whole situation regarding her priesthood, Evergreen, their odd hatred for demons despite rare instances of joining in with the player (Wayfort comes to mind), I dunno.

 

[MoneyMan181]

That sounds like a slap to the face to all Cait fans.

Same could be said for people who liked Aerith in FF7. A lot of characters people like in RPGs(and media in general) outright die. If it makes the story more interesting, I don't see why it shouldn't be done. It's not even like you're supposed to love her such as a character like Brienne(though I'd be fine with it even if it was).

corruption =/= sex

They need to define corruption better then. As is, most demons/corrupted people want to rape you into the ground and walk around naked. That's how it was in the first game and that's how it is in this one. So if that's how they show corruption most of the time, how am I supposed to distinguish corruption in a world that's already sex-crazed? Saying it's just "being obsessed over one particular thing" doesn't make much sense because Sandre and Caera are obsessed with each other and are just fine raping random people.

They either should've made the setting not be so liberal with sex and kept corruption as it was, or not make every demon obsessed with sex. As is, it's kinda hard to tell the difference between Lumia and Kasyrra considering Lumia allows the Orcs to pillage, rape, and enslave whoever they please.

 

[Heremus]

They need to define corruption better then. As is, most demons/corrupted people want to rape you into the ground and walk around naked. That's how it was in the first game and that's how it is in this one. So if that's how they show corruption most of the time, how am I supposed to distinguish corruption in a world that's already sex-crazed? Saying it's just "being obsessed over one particular thing" doesn't make much sense because Sandre and Caera are obsessed with each other and are just fine raping random people.
They either should've made the setting not be so liberal with sex and kept corruption as it was, or not make every demon obsessed with sex. As is, it's kinda hard to tell the difference between Lumia and Kasyrra considering Lumia allows the Orcs to pillage and rape whoever they please.

It's strange how morals are, but I think it's weirder the way they've introduced corruption in this world through our point of view. From the perspective of the player, we can get progressively corrupted through experiences with demons, but what if we started a game as an asshole (Dark Knight) already? Instant game over regarding corrupted scenarios, right? Is this a weird conundrum to be stuck on, or just me?

 

[MoneyMan181]

It's strange how morals are, but I think it's weirder the way they've introduced corruption in this world through our point of view. From the perspective of the player, we can get progressively corrupted through experiences with demons, but what if we started a game as an asshole (Dark Knight) already? Instant game over regarding corrupted scenarios, right? Is this a weird conundrum to be stuck on, or just me?

Yeah it's not just you, corruption just doesn't make sense. Here's some excerpts from the wiki:
"Corruption is the darker side of Libido. While Libido represents your sex drive and sexual stamina, Corruption is your sexual empathy, your shamelessness, and hedonism. It's a measure of your descent into the sexual madness of the demons, obsessed only with your own self-gratification."

"It is important to realize that pure is not necessary the same as good and corrupted is not necessarily the same as evil. It is perfectly possible for a pure PC to do evil deeds and for a corrupted one to do good deeds. When it comes to NPCs, several highly corrupted characters seem quite unaffected by it while others are actively fighting against their own corruption. There are also many completely pure NPCs who are motivated by their own kind of evil, independent of the demonic influences.

How Do I Get Corrupted?
The most direct way to gain Corruption is to partake of demonic fluids: that's a big +Corruption right there. Having demon cum or femcum splatter on you is a smaller +Corruption, but it's still there. Sexually abusing someone, forcing them to do things they don't want to do, and working to bring out their hidden fetishes grants you both +Corruption.

Generally speaking, you get Corruption by:

• Wallowing in demonic juices
• Being a rapey asshole
• Getting sexually assailed beyond your limits
• Devolving into rampant hedonism"

Being a rapey asshole makes you corrupted? Well then what the fuck is the point of "Pure PC doing evil deeds" then? Leaving Quin behind gives corruption and that is not sexual at all. Refusing to suck off Pavo for disguises should be the fucking OPPOSITE of corruption considering he can just give you the disguises for free but refuses to. That is not being rapey or an asshole, so what the hell is the qualification for being corrupted? I don't think rampant hedonism counts either because the world is already like that (*cough* Cait *cough*). I would definitely consider raping every single enemy you beat rampant hedonism yet all the enemies you fight are just fine and aren't corrupted.

I legitimately don't think the devs even have strict rules for what corruption even is besides ingesting demon cum. Is it generally evil acts or is it rampant sex? If it's rampant sex, how is the world not already corrupted? If it's evil acts, how come certain people aren't corrupted? Why does being a "rapey asshole" corrupt you when the only way to cum your soul out and become a demon is by having sex with a demon? What does being corrupt but not actually a demon even mean? Because Aileh seems like a perfectly normal person despite saying she's corrupted. They can't even pull a "Well the whole world was actually already corrupted!" because the PC starts with 0 corruption. Also a reminder that Hethia imprisoned Garret and fucking raped him for fun but y'know she's not corrupt at all, our PCs can do no wrong!

Seriously corruption is just nonsensical here. It's impossible to tell what's corrupted and what isn't because the rules and setting clash with each other so god damn hard. And now I hate the word corruption and every form of it for using it so many times.

 

[confusedcommoner]

Snip

It is surprising how few things the dev team agrees on, even if it's core to narrative cohesion and player experience.

I don't understand why the Dark Knight personality is tied to corruption either, since most writers just treat it as a no-nonsense or crude Champ personality. It's pretty jarring when it jumps from that to a sadistic mustache twirling villain depending on the writer. I wish they'd commit to one or the other and clarify what corruption actually means for the player. Even Savin, the development lead, is inconsistent or at least nonsensical with the Pavo corruption point and Cait ass kiss purity point.

An impartial editor would do a lot for the game but there's too many egos involved and content already written at this point for that to happen, I think. Savin and co. seem to just give a pass to their peers without much, or any, review and it makes the game often feel like a compilation instead of the intended collaboration.

 

[Meatshield236]

One thing about Corruption that you see in CoC and TiTS is that it also measure's your body's mutability and how you respond to mutation. You get a lot of corruption in those games through indulging in shape-changing items, and it's implied that such changes do have an effect on your personality. There's also several degrees of corruption: a few changes into some standard stuff doesn't make you that corrupt, but going full chimeric monstrosity does, and that is reflected in both the mechanics and the characters you see (as far as I remember.)

In CoC2, Corruption is just a discount morality system, with arbitrary corruption gains and losses based off of how the author wants you to do things. It's a sort-of morality thing but also a way of having the author wag their finger at you. And whenever I look at a morality system, I always fall back to the classic Knights of the Old Republic and how it handled morality. In terms of "moral choice" it was the most basic "heal the puppy or stab the puppy" sort of situations, but mechanically it never punished you for any decision. Go full light side? Your light side force powers were cheaper. Kick every puppy on the planet? Now you can blast people with force lightning for days on end! Go somewhere in-between? You can use powers on both sides without any penalties.

By contrast, Corruption just... isn't. It isn't a mechanic, because you don't really get anything from being corrupt or pure. It's not a worldbuilding thing because it has no internal logic. And it's not a measure of morality, because it's arbitrary and random. Despite being in the title of the freaking game, it's not anything.

 

[Plumpunikitty]

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Alright, I'll throw my hat into the ring.

Spoiler: My (apparent) Top Six Characters

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Honestly, I could only remember 30 characters out of the 200s that are "Known".
I also

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a copy of my results for anyone with a chromium base browser.

 

[Quintilus]

Various users:
GARGHH, ZIS GAME IZ OWERFIELLLED WITH FOOOTAS!!!!!!1111111 AND ZEY OLL BIGGGGER THAN MI!!!!!!11111111
LIETERALLLLY ANPLAYABLE!!!!!!!!!!111111111111

List of favorite characters by various users:
Futa, futa, futa, futa, female, futa, futa and futa.

 

[DipYourFingersOnMyAss]

Alright, I'll throw my hat into the ring.

Spoiler: My (apparent) Top Six Characters

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Honestly, I could only remember 30 characters out of the 200s that are "Known".
I also linked a copy of my results for anyone with a chromium base browser.

Why would you choose sanders if you cant even fuck his priest ass?

 

[RenH]

snip

This is pretty much there was even an entire debate as to whether corruption even made sense in CoC2 a while back and whether the demons are even evil at all.

Most of the uncorrupted mobs in the game rape you on loss by default, some even violating Cait's own sacred backdoor virginity to do so. Some even just outright rape others like you've pointed out. A significant chunk of the mobs, in fact, aren't corrupted and are actually responsible for most of the atrocities that happen in the world. The kitsune are even worse in some respects since they unironically intend to colonise the lands you live in and view non-kitsune as simply free nourishment, barely even people.

Compare that to the demons. Sure, they also rape on loss but that's not an indicator of 'evil' nor 'corruption' as it were since it's established that the world is so sex-crazed that the act of raping someone is nothing but a mere setback. Hell, Kassyra, the supposed BBEG of the entire ordeal, doesn't even force herself upon you with her gigantic horse cock. If the PC at any point rebuffs her advances, she actually backs off which is more than can be said about the average non-demon.

Here's the worst the demons have actually done:
-Invade the lands
-Make some plants really horny
-Bimboify some bees
-Convince a sovereign ruler to give up her throne for more dickings and demonification
-Turn an entire village of centaurs exceptionally horny

I don't know about you but this sounds awfully tame for what is being touted as a multiversal threat.

Now, some might be thinking, "Surely, corruption must mean something at least", right? It causes physical transformations in people and makes that bean counter on your menu go up in points. Since we've already discounted sexual aggression as a defining factor of corruption be lieu of the world already being sexually depraved, what does it do?

It makes you be more of an asshole--which doesn't matter since your companions love you anyway--and allows you to make decisions that are more evil. Like kicking some bees into bimbo juice, and have a wonderful relationship with the grand demon herself.

So, not only does corruption not make any sense, it doesn't even have much meaning and the demons really aren't that bad when you consider what the non-corrupted world already does to you.

 

[Daken9]

One thing about Corruption that you see in CoC and TiTS is that it also measure's your body's mutability and how you respond to mutation. You get a lot of corruption in those games through indulging in shape-changing items, and it's implied that such changes do have an effect on your personality. There's also several degrees of corruption: a few changes into some standard stuff doesn't make you that corrupt, but going full chimeric monstrosity does, and that is reflected in both the mechanics and the characters you see (as far as I remember.)

In CoC2, Corruption is just a discount morality system, with arbitrary corruption gains and losses based off of how the author wants you to do things. It's a sort-of morality thing but also a way of having the author wag their finger at you. And whenever I look at a morality system, I always fall back to the classic Knights of the Old Republic and how it handled morality. In terms of "moral choice" it was the most basic "heal the puppy or stab the puppy" sort of situations, but mechanically it never punished you for any decision. Go full light side? Your light side force powers were cheaper. Kick every puppy on the planet? Now you can blast people with force lightning for days on end! Go somewhere in-between? You can use powers on both sides without any penalties.

By contrast, Corruption just... isn't. It isn't a mechanic, because you don't really get anything from being corrupt or pure. It's not a worldbuilding thing because it has no internal logic. And it's not a measure of morality, because it's arbitrary and random. Despite being in the title of the freaking game, it's not anything.

Spoiler: So you're saying

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Also might seem backwards but with how little Corruption has mattered all throughout, at this point i don't event want stuff/endings straight up locked out based on whether or not i told Quin to fuck off, or how many times i spammed the cloister. Just too paperthin and vague to be anything more than a flavour personality thing.

 

[menatv]

Didn't I read somewhere that they didn't write a lot of corruption paths into the game because the writers don't like writing about corruption? Seems strange, considering the game is CORRUPTION of Champions 2.

I've only noticed maybe some minor changes in dialog. And some weapons need higher or little/no corruption to use them. But in all the time this game has been online, that's been about it.

 

[Quintilus]

not only does corruption not make any sense, it doesn't even have much meaning

Which mean, world was corrupted straight from the beginning. This why nobody particularly cares about invasion. Its just a ordinary monday for world inhabitant.....eugh, I hate mondays...

Red flying futa horse cock from the deep space changed nothing in the world order.

 

[undyingrevenant]

snip

Actually of those things the centaurs are portrayed as being one of the few real examples of corruption being a genuine problem and threat, like in the scene where you rescue caits dad, they have a gnoll sex slave, and when they escape they start dragging her behind them with a rope by the neck choking her until it's cut. Although again as you and others have said the world alreadys kinda effed, using the horse people as another example pretty sure the crazy horses arent corrupt either they just refuse to drink a tea or something so then become psycho rapists.

Part of the issue with it is the tone and freeform group project problem, you seem to have some writers that want wholesome cuddle sheep girl romantic virginity taking stuff (based), or free love with horse butts and dongs, then you have others that want mgs levels of "why are we still here" slaughtering, subtext, drama, mental issues and lore. Compare the elf hippie commune or the pup farm to gweyrs quest, the den and the abyssal mind break monster, or kas telling her backstory where she was raped and/or abused by her mother and others until she broke her neck, and then when she had imps they're implied to rape her as well to add to why she genuinely despises them. On the one hand it means you have enough fun/funny stuff that it doesn't become depressing, on the other you don't have unity so the actual corruption content is limited. Certain characters have choices for it or will soon like nihara or drifa, but its not a common thing and if people signed up to corruption of champions not liking, wanting or being able to make corruption content then they're free to stay on and do whatever they wish anyway apparently.

An example of an ideal shape coc2 could take would be venusbloods formula of having party members that remain pure-ish, corrupt, or "whoopsie"-d. They seem to have tackled more than they could handle though, because with what they say they can, they needed to reduce the scope a great deal, never put in so many companions, and instead have brought on writers that were ok or had preference for vile, f'ed up crap, and made them dedicated to the corruption content and corruption variations. For example, keep wsan on minotaur content, but then take on his metaphorical evil twin dedicated for corruption stuff. They don't do that though so instead you wind up with 50 cardboard cutouts and random self contained fan fics instead of something like 25 characters but each one having a variation. Quantity doesn't mean much when it's a demon 7 instead of a kasyrra.