Others Corruption of Champions II [v0.7.15] [Savin/Salamander Studios]

[A Burning Conscience]

Hey, before I start, again I can appear an ass, do call me out if I overstep. OK? Here we go.

"How many characters do you like" is a whole 'nother topic. And "largely" copy pasted seems a bit of an exaggeration when it just seems to be a repeated scene between the two sisters.

Incorrect, we just saw with the new Stylist characters added to the "FloofHaus" as they like to call it, that TOBS cloned Miko content.

See Basty96's post on this matter here:

Spoiler: Basty's post

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At a rough glance, there's...29 recurring named futa encounters in the game.
I stopped counting the females at double that. It's still not even close, no matter what criteria you use. Important characters, permanent characters, battlefuck, non-battlefuck - the ratio is between double and triple in favor of females.

How many of those got front page splashes on the website? How many of those female characters are plot relevant? I do not dispute the numbers of characters, I dispute their level of value based on effort put in, relevance and level of promotion. And this is about a thing that is exceedingly rare in nature, being represented in the ratios that homosexual content should be realistically represented.

This is getting into opinion territory, but I'll bite here as well.

Yes, this is all opinion territory, let none us delude ourselves here, I am arguing an opinion based on the information before me as are you. I acknowledged your numbers based on the factual element of them, challenged them on their interpretation.

The most energy? Easily female characters. Tobs has written, as mentioned, one futa. Of Savin's three companions, the one that gets the most attention by far is the female one. Wsan has written more for Brienne than any other character (though he has written three fairly in depth futa).

Excluding copied and pasted content. And when it comes to companions I will concede the bias, I had thought of including that in my previous post but couldn't work it in. But when it comes to companions and their level of content we are really talking about two companions only, Cait and Brienne. They have far more content than the rest put together. And of those Cait has been getting less focus over time, as I demonstrated in the Cait watch posts where at first she was pivotal to the story, and after winter city she dropped off the face of the earth. Companions as a catagory do not mean much, most only have content on par with the more complex "settled" NPCS, and the most complex of those in Berwyn was a passion project that just got axed.

All the marriageable character characters so far? Female. All the ones planned? Mostly female, and two males.
Characters you can go on dates with? All female.
Characters you can have an actual kid with that's an actual NPC and not just a number? All female.
Characters with in-depth preg content at all, vastly bent towards female.

Really, there's little to no romantic content for futas in this game at all. Valencia is it, really. And if you really want to stretch the definition of romance...maybe Evelyn and Arona?

True, and an interesting and strange point. While the NPC kids mean little right now because of the three of them only one has any actual content (I know Freja has some, but they amount to several uninteractible one-off scenes). If I could draw a conclusion from this it would be that the writers treat Futa's as pure sex symbols and alternatives to male characters, as such they fill the roll of male characters in a world designed for male players. As such they are seen more as sexable rivals, and get afforded the screen time male counter parts would be given.

This is also removing the context in which the characters are introduced. Yes, out the Marefolk villiage, only Atani is mariable, but she is surrounde BY futa content. Her guards are futas, her mother is futa, you go to the wedding and you are reminded that all of them have horse cock save the bride. The other marriages? Centaur wife, has no bearing on events and the villiage has no value save recruiting the party pack-mule. Kiyoko is reviled in this community and falls squarely into TOBS's content, so yes, as a matter of preference, she is devalued.

Heck, just glance at the changelogs. Run through them and note how often they actually include content for futa characters. Pretty sure entire months have gone by with nothing.

Sorry, no, I've just gone through the website to check this and no. Every month back to the start of 2020 (Where I stopped because it's geting late and I wish to sleep) has a splash image of at least one futa character or an update that added to one. Bear in mind that batches of NPC's, like the brothels and centaurs, include at least one futa.

TL;DR

I do not think that there's is any actual way to interpret futa as the predominant sex of the game.

And saying it should be "a rare minority fetish set of characters" seems to be personal bias. Again, by all available evidence, the fanbase of this game loves futa.
The idea that the thing the fanbase has clearly indicated they are massively in favor of should be rare seems a bit misguided.

There are very few futa games on the market at all that aren't just straight up low-effort crap that's not worth anyone's time...so it seems a bit cruel to begrudge the factually small amount that this game does have.

(Sorry about the double quote, I've tried to fix it, I don't know why it keeps inserting it).

Should we run a poll here and see what numbers that gives us? Put a survey before two different audiences and get two different results. Was new coke good or bad?
Their surveys are served to their existing, paying, audience. People who have a vested interest, and have been exclusively filtered out from their total audience, IE everyone who doesn't continue to shell out Patreon money.

To justify my point on scarcity further, Savarra was meant to be a a more grounded world, yet it has more futa content than the original game. Hell, be your own numbers it has more futa's than there are homosexuals in the world (if we extrapolate your ratios, who conservatively number 1 in 10. I am not arguing there is a one to one for all. But that an over-representation of something extremely rare is highly noticeable.

As for futa games on the market... I think we can both click the futa tag at the top of this page and disabuse that notion.

 

[Jötunn123]

I'm somewhat annoyed by the inclusion of Salamanders as a transformation, since their only interesting part, their hot body and insides aren't going to be usable for a PC since No writer is going to include it.

Same to many of the other transformations.

 

[Tau_Iota]

I'm somewhat annoyed by the inclusion of Salamanders as a transformation, since their only interesting part, their hot body and insides aren't going to be usable for a PC since No writer is going to include it.

Same to many of the other transformations.

Honestly though. Like at this point, transforming (aside from gender) feels straight up pointless aside from personal preference

 

[Skandranon]

Incorrect, we just saw with the new Stylist characters added to the "FloofHaus" as they like to call it, that TOBS cloned Miko content.

Stylist characters were added months ago. All that was just added was a bust I'm pretty sure. And they weren't added to the kitsune den.

And that cloned content was what I was talking about though I meant to type from the two sisters, not between.

How many of those got front page splashes on the website? How many of those female characters are plot relevant? I do not dispute the numbers of characters, I dispute their level of value based on effort put in, relevance and level of promotion.

The answer to all those is probably "more than the futas by a good bit".

How many plot relevant futa characters are there? Kas, Etheryn and...is that it?

And if we want to count front page splashes, lets go over the front page stuff for this whole year.

Futa and female
Female
Female and Male
Female
Futa
Female
Female
Futa
Female
Female
Male
Female
Futa
Female
Futa
Female
Female
Female
Female
Futa
Female

So 15 posts with a female on them and...6 posts with a futa on them.

...pretty much the same ratio as everything else.

And this is about a thing that is exceedingly rare in nature, being represented in the ratios that homosexual content should be realistically represented.

This...doesn't matter. This is a fetish game. How much stuff occurs in nature is kinda irrelevant here.

Yes, this is all opinion territory, let none us delude ourselves here, I am arguing an opinion based on the information before me as are you. I acknowledged your numbers based on the factual element of them, challenged them on their interpretation.

But the opinion you are representing here has a LOT of fact to cover. You are saying that a 3rd of the characters get more attention than a number of characters over triple their size. In literally every easily measurable metric, the exact opposite is true.

Excluding copied and pasted content. And when it comes to companions I will concede the bias, I had thought of including that in my previous post but couldn't work it in. But when it comes to companions and their level of content we are really talking about two companions only, Cait and Brienne. They have far more content than the rest put together. And of those Cait has been getting less focus over time, as I demonstrated in the Cait watch posts where at first she was pivotal to the story, and after winter city she dropped off the face of the earth. Companions as a catagory do not mean much, most only have content on par with the more complex "settled" NPCS, and the most complex of those in Berwyn was a passion project that just got axed.

Regardless of how much content any of them are getting relative to before, they still get more content by far than...well, the futa companion (Arona).

And "pivotal to the story" isn't really the issue, here, content is. And after Winter City, she has gotten CaitQuest, the whole brothel, a new transformation, a steady drop of scenes, etc.

As such they are seen more as sexable rivals, and get afforded the screen time male counter parts would be given.

I pretty much agree with this...but it kinda just bolsters my point.

This is also removing the context in which the characters are introduced. Yes, out the Marefolk villiage, only Atani is mariable, but she is surrounde BY futa content. Her guards are futas, her mother is futa, you go to the wedding and you are reminded that all of them have horse cock save the bride.

So...all the meaningful content is had by the female character, all the attention is on the female character, all of the non-story development surrounds the female character - and the futas get a few sex scenes.

Also, if we're talking about context - the marefolk village basically also comes with the centaur village, the quest finishes both. The place where you get to marry ANOTHER female character, and get another character that actually becomes a camp companion - both of course, female.

The other marriages? Centaur wife, has no bearing on events and the villiage has no value save recruiting the party pack-mule. Kiyoko is reviled in this community and falls squarely into TOBS's content, so yes, as a matter of preference, she is devalued.

Whether or not she is reviled is, again, irrelevant. The issue posed by you is, well...

based on effort put in, relevance and level of promotion

and Kiyoko definitely fills those roles.

Sorry, no, I've just gone through the website to check this and no. Every month back to the start of 2020 (Where I stopped because it's geting late and I wish to sleep) has a splash image of at least one futa character or an update that added to one. Bear in mind that batches of NPC's, like the brothels and centaurs, include at least one futa.

Splash images aren't content. There have been many dry spells with little to no futa content, though tbh I'd have to check if an actual calendar month corresponded.

Should we run a poll here and see what numbers that gives us? Put a survey before two different audiences and get two different results. Was new coke good or bad?
Their surveys are served to their existing, paying, audience. People who have a vested interest, and have been exclusively filtered out from their total audience, IE everyone who doesn't continue to shell out Patreon money.

Even on here, as someone just commented, there's an awful lot of futa characters on top polls.

And, quite frankly, the poll results here, would be...meaningless. You talked about what they should be putting in their game, and I would think that pretty much anyone would agree that a business should be catering to its paying customers and not pirates, no? Add to that the fact that that poll sat around 2500+ people and here probably doesn't hit 100 users, and I feel its pretty clear which one someone would give more weight to logically.

To justify my point on scarcity further, Savarra was meant to be a a more grounded world, yet it has more futa content than the original game. Hell, be your own numbers it has more futa's than there are homosexuals in the world (if we extrapolate your ratios, who conservatively number 1 in 10. I am not arguing there is a one to one for all. But that an over-representation of something extremely rare is highly noticeable.

It also has more cow people than than there are in the world.
Relating Savarra's demographics to the real world does not seem like a useful metric in any way.

As for futa games on the market... I think we can both click the futa tag at the top of this page and disabuse that notion.

We most certainly can't. there are over 7000 games on this site; less than 1000 of them have the futa tag at all. The vast majority of those have a single scene or side character at best, and the vast majority of what's left is, to put it nicely, well below par.

 

[Heremus]

To justify my point on scarcity further, Savarra was meant to be a a more grounded world, yet it has more futa content than the original game.

I had to double-take Savarra being a more grounded world, because while I understand where they may be coming from, they've got more stuff here that takes away from it being more grounded, as they imply. Like enjoyment.

Honestly though. Like at this point, transforming (aside from gender) feels straight up pointless aside from personal preference

HOOOH, BOY. Memories are flowing back to how people were excited about transformations several years ago (Fenoxo stuff in general), to see it turn out so counter-productive to their development is hilarious. Trials in Tainted Space with its centaur and lamia choices, on top of ovipositors were something that could've developed into something great. But they refused.

 

[Tau_Iota]

I had to double-take Savarra being a more grounded world, because while I understand where they may be coming from, they've got more stuff here that takes away from it being more grounded, as they imply. Like enjoyment.


HOOOH, BOY. Memories are flowing back to how people were excited about transformations several years ago (Fenoxo stuff in general), to see it turn out so counter-productive to their development is hilarious. Trials in Tainted Space with its centaur and lamia choices, on top of ovipositors were something that could've developed into something great. But they refused.

I 'member when you could be a drider lmao

 

[Heremus]

I 'member when you could be a drider lmao

I remember the choice of sexing Phylla as another insect species.

 

[Tau_Iota]

I remember the choice of sexing Phylla as another insect species.

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[Heremus]

Berwyn got done dirty. It was a bad decision and if they weren't so egotistical they'd reverse it. From what I know about the devs they are a super insular and spiteful bunch like most hardcore furries tbh so I'm betting it was "Oh you don't want to write for us anymore? Then we're gonna fuck up your character." They've done shit like that before.

Berwyn was also arguably done dirty by their own writer too, as absurd as it sounds. Take the time to look into what they've written going off the wiki for both COC2 and TITS, and what did I find?

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BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE!

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If people wanna compare the dates that these characters were written into the games, be my guest. But it isn't a good thing to notice.
That being said, there's a LOT of characters that are just left on the cutting room floor, not just Berwyn. But Kase, Erra, Brandy, Liamme, etc.

 

[Kroenen12]

Berwyn, well look at his update. It guts his previous content for some mediocre copy-pasted content.

yeah

But yes, Brienne does take away content from Brint. Look at how in-depth her family content is vs Brint's.

well that lack of content was planned from the beginning, before brienne existed


-Brint doesn't care if you fuck his mother and sister
-Brienne wants you to fuck her mom and sister
so it is quite clear who is going to receive more content with his family

The marriage, her interactivity with you.

can you elaborate?

Her variety of busts alone speaks for itself

actually that's moira's fault...

moira still hasn't finished brint's new bust...

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[Tau_Iota]

yeah

well that lack of content was planned from the beginning, before brienne existed
View attachment 2021366
View attachment 2021359
-Brint doesn't care if you fuck his mother and sister
-Brienne wants you to fuck her mom and sister
so it is quite clear who is going to receive more content with his family

can you elaborate?

actually that's moira's fault...
View attachment 2021496
moira still hasn't finished brint's new bust...

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On family content, sure he wouldn't care. But there's no content equivalency to marrying the whole family now is there?

If I recall correctly, you will never be able to marry Brint. You'll only ever be his number 1 ho, whereas Brienne is receiving a whole marriage ceremony with variants for how you have treated the family. Brienne will also consistently stop to talk to you while you're out-and-about, kind of like how Dom Arona will. Brint doesn't see any of that to my knowledge.
Edit: Aside from flavor text like blank-faced NPCs that will say they wanna fuck him when you hit "Explore" in Hawkethorne

Pointing out that Moira was quick to put out Brienne's busts and very slow to update Brint's just exemplifies my point. If Brienne did not exist, there'd be no reason for Moira to have not finished Brint's. This is what everyone keeps talking about when they say Brienne is taking away from Brint.

 

[Skandranon]

Nah, you'll be able to marry Brint. Just Brint, though.

If you have Brint, you can't marry the other two.

 

[Wrynn13]

Counterpoint, if Brienne didn't exist there would be much less interest in Brint so he would still have less content. Theoretically anyways, but it's as possible as the other.

 

[Tau_Iota]

Nah, you'll be able to marry Brint. Just Brint, though.

If you have Brint, you can't marry the other two.

You'd still have to share him, I'd imagine. Also, "If you have Brint, you can't marry the other two."

Counterpoint, if Brienne didn't exist there would be much less interest in Brint so he would still have less content. Theoretically anyways, but it's as possible as the other.

There's always been love for Brint, so I doubt the lack of Brienne would detract interest from Brint. Also, he's Wsan's companion so he wouldn't be abandoned like Agni

 

[MoneyMan181]

Honestly never understood the whole, "Brienne takes content away from Brint" angle. Like sure I guess you could argue that but it's weird to blame the character rather than the writer for that, no? If Wsan would rather work on things other than Brint, I'm sure he would find other ways to do it if he didn't think of Brienne. Idk I just don't like saying, "this character takes content away from this other character." because it just seems needlessly divisive.

I'm also curious to see if Brienne actually has more content than Brint besides just busts. It seems like Brint has more repeatable scenes while Brienne has the whole family thing and a few one-off events so it should mostly even out, right?

 

[muschi26]

Honestly never understood the whole, "Brienne takes content away from Brint" angle. Like sure I guess you could argue that but it's weird to blame the character rather than the writer for that, no? If Wsan would rather work on things other than Brint, I'm sure he would find other ways to do it if he didn't think of Brienne. Idk I just don't like saying, "this character takes content away from this other character." because it just seems needlessly divisive.

I'm also curious to see if Brienne actually has more content than Brint besides just busts. It seems like Brint has more repeatable scenes while Brienne has the whole family thing and a few one-off events so it should mostly even out, right?

IDK it’s not really “blaming” IMO, it’s just the reality of having one writer who now needs to divide his finite time between two characters, where hypothetically there could’ve been just one.

 

[Tau_Iota]

Honestly never understood the whole, "Brienne takes content away from Brint" angle. Like sure I guess you could argue that but it's weird to blame the character rather than the writer for that, no? If Wsan would rather work on things other than Brint, I'm sure he would find other ways to do it if he didn't think of Brienne. Idk I just don't like saying, "this character takes content away from this other character." because it just seems needlessly divisive.

Fair point, but I'm not blaming the character. I'm blaming Wsan for deciding to bring her into existence. I don't dislike her, she's enjoyable but I'd rather more content for Brint. People who want a waifu to impregnate can go get abused by Kiyoko (Kidding, of course.)

Like muschi said, it's dividing the work he's doing which always seems to slant in Brienne's favor. In an ideal world of course, there would have been a good writer to work on Brint or Brienne instead of Wsan doing both

I'm also curious to see if Brienne actually has more content than Brint besides just busts. It seems like Brint has more repeatable scenes while Brienne has the whole family thing and a few one-off events so it should mostly even out, right?

Another fair point, if only we had an up-to-date wiki we could check instead of editing being heavily restricted to people who can't be bothered to update it. If I remember correctly, Brienne has the same or more.

 

[Kroenen12]

On family content, sure he wouldn't care. But there's no content equivalency to marrying the whole family now is there?

If I recall correctly, you will never be able to marry Brint.

Pointing out that Moira was quick to put out Brienne's busts and very slow to update Brint's just exemplifies my point. If Brienne did not exist, there'd be no reason for Moira to have not finished Brint's. This is what everyone keeps talking about when they say Brienne is taking away from Brint.

I mean it's true that brienne is popular and gets art/busts before brint, but that doesn't mean that Brint won't get any content/art
so "Brienne is taking away from Brint." is...
exaggerated?

 

[muschi26]

I mean it's true that brienne is popular and gets art/busts before brint, but that doesn't mean that Brint won't get any content/art
so "Brienne is taking away from Brint." is...
exaggerated?

People assume that, if Brienne didn’t exist, all of the time Wsan presently spends on her would go to Brint 100% (effectively doubling his content or more), which might not be what actually would transpire (more likely he would distribute his extra time among all his other characters), but nonetheless Brint would likely get more content than he does currently.

 

[Tau_Iota]

View attachment 2021615

You'd still have to share him, I'd imagine. Also, "If you have Brint, you can't marry the other two."

I mean it's true that brienne is popular and gets art/busts before brint, but that doesn't mean that Brint won't get any content/art
so "Brienne is taking away from Brint." is...
exaggerated?

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If you don't get the point of why someone would look at Brint's still not being finished and being frustrated, I don't know what to say. If Brienne gets content and art left and right while Brint (being the original character) is drip fed content, someone who enjoyed the minobro would be understandably upset. Especially since aside from the gym, his last content update was Elthara's reaction to him becoming Brienne while pregnant with his child. Aside from that, the last thing he got was a single doggy scene.

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