Others Corruption of Champions II [v0.7.35] [Savin/Salamander Studios]

[undyingrevenant]

TOBS will never understand how seduce work because the only time he got seduction from his father , and now he become someone who hates Father x Daughter

Fxd/ incest is very controversial in general, considered morally wrong unless it's just glorified fantasy rp basically (obviously), but the issue is less the ick factor or writer choice and more the handling of the content. Using tobs first, kinu is handled less like a kid, and then there's a massive time jump. He commissions art of her getting railed, novella of her explicit breeding escapades with farm husband, gets hime kinu at least dressed skimpy AF, don't have evidence ATM but pretty sure he mentioned doing that just to piss people off when they found out she wasn't an erotic option, instead of something like dressing her more conservatively to visually confirm she wasn't supposed to be attractive to PC.

I mean it's a hot take, but for kinus case in particular, if she was handled a bit differently I honestly think a fxd could work, to a point. Firstly, it's a pron centric game with turbo horny demon horses. Imo though I feel on the see saw she's closer to "what are you doing step dad" than an actual daughter. Like the scenes where you even have the option to rub her tails or her face are already weird. The time jump was dumb and by the time you meet her, either way, she's basically a different person. If not f/mxd, she really needs more papa wolf/mama bear options. Hitoshi seems pretty solid and reliable and like they'll work out, nakano needs *dad staring at him polishing gun* level stuff, or training him, something. Personally him not joining or interfering with her escort makes him kind of beyond the pale of just being an awful character to me, no matter what a future arc could be, that moment was him doing paperwork instead of personally protecting his future wife/daughteru. Prequel Anakin had better writing.

But main thing with strictly parental or incest content is the writing, like ailehs daughter. She starts off and is handled as an actual child. You piggyback ride her around the fort and meet the pupper, get her stuffed animals, hear her speak first words, sound proof her room when parents are busy etc. That explicitly builds parental attachment, and would explicitly be icky for any erotic content later on besides an incredibly small percentage of readers. Perfectly done child character so far imo. Kinu would have benefitted from similarly starting younger, more tantrums and kid stuff, carrying her through fields with kiyoko, "baba" "mama", less "I desire mental stimulation father" and her ahegao face as fan art and the writer profile pic.

There is acceptable levels of incest or incest lite content though for people who want it, several female characters have mommy rp, most milf types, Gwyneth has daddy issue rp, evergreens kinky AF with weird and weirder implications, some ickier stuff like pretty sure if female part equipped pc has imps/is corrupt, imps that come back to inn to run a train on you are the pcs.

 

[Tripfriend]

Their NTR even suck according to cuckold themselves. It's just like they want cucking their audience but afraid all money in patreon is gone because it's not pandering vanilla, enjoyer

The ntr fucking sucks because there's no progression or consequences, no changes in the status quo of the relationship, no hints that things will devolve. CoC2 has no ntr, only ''cheating'' and even then... who does it? The cat? I can't think of any serious love interest companions actively fucking someone else without your permission outside the bee.

 

[Quintilus]

Corrupt players take advantage of her fucked-up emotional state and essentially get a sex slave,

How?
"Your family dead..how about sucking my dick till the end of eternity sounds huh?"

 

[glygoch]

Incest is vile and I doubt people need to be abused to revile it. Pay attention to the conversation. He doesn't want to write that crap and it's understandable, it's his choice to write it or not. It would be nice if he allowed us to be good parents, though, but he's determined to be a prick.

I don't actually think incest by itself is vile. I would compare it to eating your own shit - sure, i'm going to think there is something wrong with you, but I won't think you're an evil person for doing it. The issue is that in real life, it's typically not consensual and it's hard to establish plausible consent due to the influence of power inbalances (parent/child, younger/older sibling) or just the fact that you can't get away from that person easily. Also the issues often surronding it, like pedophillia, grooming, childhood trauma, strange living conditions etc.

Also, he wrote Gwyn, so the idea that he can't write incest is ridiculous. Sure, it's not technically incest, but like, the words are there, just swap the PC for Garth in that roleplay scene. You can't write a brutal rape scene preceded by "All people in this scene actually gave consent" and then claim "Rape is bad, I would never write such a thing." Let's not pretend him being morally opposed to writing incest is the issue - not that I personally want him to, since I doubt it would be what people want it to be, at best you're looking at another "timeskip was your fault" situation.

He can, of course, write what he wants, but he is getting paid for it. Surely you can imagine how his spiteful acts towards the people who give him money would leave a sour taste in their mouths, especially since they can't do much about it if they care about the rest of the game.

Thing is, I find it especially hard to work emotions in writing for CoC2, because I can’t really account for either character; I have to write with a generic protagonist in mind, and since I’m a newbie they want me writing encounters with generic NPCs to start off, so it gets real impersonal, real fast.

You can't write anything meaningful without assuming something about the protagonist. Unfortunately, many writers in this game have their own distinct style, making the protagonist into a schizo with no established morals or preferences (good or bad), like Tobs with the "0 input protagonist who doesn't dare interrupt someone's great monologue", or Skow's "perverted old man protagonist".

I think the solution at this point is to gateway all content behind questioning the player's feelings, something like
Righteous option - pick this only if you have a strong sense of justice ("Stop the evil sorcerer!")
or
Emotionally invested option - only someone who cares deeply would pick this ("Help your beloved.")
with options for each personality. Of course, it could just be like - Neutral/evil ("This isn't my problem"), assuming it doesn't hurt you to do so and doesn't fail a quest where you get the best weapon it the game or something.

The ntr fucking sucks because there's no progression or consequences, no changes in the status quo of the relationship, no hints that things will devolve. CoC2 has no ntr, only ''cheating'' and even then... who does it? The cat? I can't think of any serious love interest companions actively fucking someone else without your permission outside the bee.

There is no NTR in the game. The protagonist would need an established love interest, which, thanks to schizo writing, can only be assumed about very few people. Never mind the fact that, again, protagonist that is down for anything, is okay with sharing and the only reason why characters are monogamous is their choice, not his. Of course, just because it's not in the game, that doesn't mean you, the player, can't feel like you're getting cucked. Think about it. Would you care about Azzyran/Liaden if you couldn't sexually interact with either? Would you care about Brint/Elthara? I think the real NTR is the player feels insignificant in those situations - You want to fuck the hornet? Sure, but here's a character that she likes more than you in every way. You want to knock up the priestess? Sure, but here's someone that can do it better. Etc, etc.

 

[atomicp]

And then they'll deny all of that and still claim the MC is special... More like special needs they way they're written sometimes

MC is a special bystander!

Sure, but here's someone that can do it better. Etc, etc.

That's a thing that's pretty much consistent on the most prolific writers lol, because the opposite would be a power fantasy

 

[Kuroimi95]

I don't think the problem is the scale of the story, the problem is the scale of the characters compared to the story
Because they don't want to make a power fantasy, we're basically supposed to be just a dude, but we're put against nation-destroying demons and other shit
If they made the protagonist a real hero, or actually said that the protagonist is very strong (which should've been the case after Winter City), it would be less of a problem

Honestly, can someone explain to me why they don't want to make a power fantasy? I feel like it's stupid to try to avoid it in this type of game, even most actual RPGs are one kind of power fantasies, and we're talking about a text-based one so it's even worse

 

[Walk Cycle]

Honestly, can someone explain to me why they don't want to make a power fantasy? I feel like it's stupid to try to avoid it in this type of game, even most actual RPGs are one kind of power fantasies, and we're talking about a text-based one so it's even worse

Savin doesn't want it to be a power fantasy and he's the dev lead. Simple as.


Why Savin himself dislikes power fantasies we'll never know. Is it a misguided attempt to make a more grounded setting or is it he doesn't want the player character to take the limelight off his and his writers OC's? Again, it's a mystery.

 

[Wrynn13]

Savin doesn't want it to be a power fantasy and he's the dev lead. Simple as.


Why Savin himself dislikes power fantasies we'll never know. Is it a misguided attempt to make a more grounded setting or is it he doesn't want the player character to take the limelight off his and his writers OC's? Again, it's a mystery.

I think the reason Savin is so opposed to power fantasy is because he's a massive cuck. His view of "others having all the power makes me moist" taints a lot of his views. Ironic with how he has the power as the project lead but I think that's why he lets Tobs shit all over the project, he wants to let him have that power over him. For all his issues I can only imagine how much better the game would have been if Fen had run it instead of just taking his share of the money so Savin could tarnish his brand instead.

 

[Quintilus]

I think the reason Savin is so opposed to power fantasy is because he's a massive cuck. His view of "others having all the power makes me moist" taints a lot of his views. Ironic with how he has the power as the project lead but I think that's why he lets Tobs shit all over the project, he wants to let him have that power over him. For all his issues I can only imagine how much better the game would have been if Fen had run it instead of just taking his share of the money so Savin could tarnish his brand instead.

No, he just a massive dickhead and dumbass that doesnt know a thing how to handle/direct large scaled projects.

 

[Wrynn13]

No, he just a massive dickhead and dumbass that doesnt know a thing how to handle/direct large scaled projects.

It could be both.

 

[harem.king]

The ntr fucking sucks because there's no progression or consequences, no changes in the status quo of the relationship, no hints that things will devolve. CoC2 has no ntr, only ''cheating'' and even then... who does it? The cat? I can't think of any serious love interest companions actively fucking someone else without your permission outside the bee.

CoC2 has slut interests instead of love interests

 

[Skandranon]

For all his issues I can only imagine how much better the game would have been if Fen had run it instead of just taking his share of the money so Savin could tarnish his brand instead.

Significantly worse tbh.
Savin, for whatever faults anyone thinks he has, has certainly run this game better than Fen has run either of his.

Waaaaay better, it's not even close.

 

[The Pointman]

Does this game still get mods or no.

 

[MoneyMan181]

Significantly worse tbh.
Savin, for whatever faults anyone thinks he has, has certainly run this game better than Fen has run either of his.

Waaaaay better, it's not even close.

I'm not gonna sit here and act like Fen did a great job or anything, but at least he made the 2 worlds he created consistent and gave you a reason to actually care about what's happening. Savin has avoided most meaningful controversy and had more consistent updates, but that doesn't mean anything if the game is still shit and has way more problems than its predecessors.

 

[atomicp]

Savin avoided the controversy of not delivering a consistent world by not delivering a world at all.

 

[jfmherokiller]

so semi honest question: how many ways can you seporate the game with how "broken" it lore seems to be?

for me i can say that the whole kitsune part feels like it belongs in a seporate game sometimes.

 

[helllover]

Tits and COC1 also has it above COC2 that they are actually willing to write proper dom/sadist and sub/masochist characters/relationships and actual corruption and addictions to their logical/fictional outcomes, meanwhile COC2 just feels that almost every encounter, events, character relationships and story events to be in their own locked rooms, unwilling to let in the stuff/content outside.

PS. my real issue with the cat temple is that it's just outright, dreadfully boring that I'd actually desire an event where the pc can instruct the temple youth about the naughty stuff.

 

[Biostar]

Fucking incest fags are so unbelievably annoying I'm starting to understand Savin and even Tobs' contempt towards them.

Pfft, that attitude is exactly why I don't care what people want to say about people like them and you. Please drop the facade of "civility". Your use of "incestfags" just shows you don't actually care about being polite. And yes, I am one so I will get uppity if I want to.

 

[Skandranon]

View attachment 2956967
I'm not gonna sit here and act like Fen did a great job or anything, but at least he made the 2 worlds he created consistent and gave you a reason to actually care about what's happening. Savin has avoided most meaningful controversy and had more consistent updates, but that doesn't mean anything if the game is still shit and has way more problems than its predecessors.

Coc is "consistent" by way of barely having a story at all. I was there for most of the development, and for the back half of it, Fen just starting churning out random waifus instead of doing anything with the story for almost two years. Unfinished waifus btw - there's a ton of vestigial content in CoC.

And then he straight up abandoned CoC to work on TiTs instead. He came back and hacked together a wildly undercooked ending for it after everyone complained consistently for months.

Then, 8 years of development On TiTs amd was only half freakin way to completion The game if actually on track would have ran for 16 years.. Then, didn't at all plan for the Java switch and had to shut down development for a year, and after that year, it wasn't like suddenly a backed up years worth of content was ready - it just resumed again at honestly slightly slower than normal pace.

And then Fen semi-retired and handed the reins over to Savin because he couldn't actually finish the job.

That's not even discussing the metric fuckton of scrapped features, whole planets, characters, etc that were never delivered. Or even the ones in game that will never be finished (like half of Williams stuff). Some of this stuff was actually promised in the Offbeatr campaign, stuff people actually paid for.

The man is 0 and 2 and at the end of his career for completely finished games.


Savin, purely as a project lead? Has kept this game on the rails for its entire run, has had much less turnover in his team.

When Berwyn was abandoned, he actually came up with a solution. Whether you like said solution or not, it's still more than Fen ever did, whi h is why both of his games have a ton of unfinished characters. There aren't a ton of broken promises or features blowing in the wind. The worst we can say on that front is he off-handedly has mentioned some stuff that might not end up happening.

As a project lead, as a manager, Savin has run his game (and hell, now Fens game also) leagues ahead of what Fen did.

 

[helllover]

I think that Tits has far better content and stuff than COC2 due to the fact that it simply has far more many better people working on it.