VN Ren'Py Abandoned Damaged Goods [Day 2 Part 2] [Yihman1 -Sinappeal]

[yihman1]

This is a mess.

On one hand, a guy that should have been more forthcoming about his situation with his partner in development, give him a more clear answer, and on the other hand, a guy bullying a hospitalized guy into working again on his "Precious" project and dismissing his situation just because he's no getting what he wants.

Just forget about this project guys, you two clearly don't mix well, one likes to work at his own pace and on his terms, the other wants to have control of every single word in the game.

This won't end well, this will last for 2 or 3 updates before the situation becomes unbearable for both of you.

Just let it die and move on.

Honestly, had I known Sin was in the hospital with the drugs, surgery, ect... I'd have totally postponed all of this a couple of weeks or even a month or whatever until he is back home back on his feet and feeling better. The thing is he never dropped me a message saying. "I'm gonna be gone for a week or two because I need to get some surgery." He chose to keep me out of the loop, and not for the first time. A simple 5-second message would have avoided the drama.

I was under the belief that he was simply ignoring/avoiding my messages, which is not an unfair assumption given the situation, and the way he has acted towards me and towards DG development previously. It's reasonable for me to think that was the case.

It's not unreasonable for me to be at my wit's end with Sin right now. It's not about the past few days, but more so the past several months.

Sadly, over time I have learned that I can not trust Sin the way I would like to. I would like to trust Sin. I really would, and that would be fantastic if I could.

Here is a complete timeline of my mistrust in Sin over time, and how mistrust was built up both ways from my perspective:

I saw a "writer wanted" post by Sin in the forums, and communications began. He had a demo of a game already in tyrano builder... but it was a very early demo, and we decided to pretty much just scrap that, but we did manage to salvage our beloved Kelly character from it to have a role in a new game with a new personality. Things were great at first.

Early in development Sin mentioned to me that he was using a hired 3rd party to do much of his pose work for him. He never shared the identity of this person with me, nor got me in communications with them at all in spite of me asking to know their identity. All I knew is that there is this person he was hiring & thus the cost of production would be going up. Sin was paying the bill for this, as he has done so consistently so I was okay with it. It's his money, and he can spend it how he wants. However, I did make a forum post in the dev-only forums asking if his behavior sounded sketchy at all and a "What would you do?" Other devs pretty much unanimously said this is very suspicious behavior, and I wouldn't work with that person they sound like a scammer. Sin & I had a little fight over this... but in spite of many devs saying "Bad idea" I went ahead anyway because I wanted to give Sin the benefit of the doubt, and I liked the renders he had made so far. I still feel that unnamed person deserves a credit if they do as much work as Sin says they do if they want a credit.

So work continued for a long time pretty much in the dark to the public. At some points, Sin took a bit more initiative than I wanted him to on the rendering. Entire scenes were generated that were never ordered for the story. Sin was not happy that some of the scenes had to go. For example, there was a bondage rape scene in a prison. It wouldn't have flown on Patreon rules, so it had to go because we needed to not get banned from there. There was another scene that confused me with some random black guy that was supposed to be some sort of hacker but also doing sleeper creeper stuff. It's not that they were bad renders Sin usually makes good renders, and he did those pretty good too, but the story just would just not flow with that as a part of it.

Some stuff is already rendered and "in the hole" so to say. A drive with Rose, Jessica, and Kelly in the forest is saved and ready to go when we need it. The thing is we don't need it yet. Rose has to go to school on day 2 first before we can consider that an option for a scene to use.

So Sin was making too many renders that either we could "Never use" or "Not use very soon." These "Wasted Renders" became a bit of a source of friction and conflict between myself and Sin. Sin with the stance of "I HATE WASTING RENDERS!" fair enough and me with the stance "WE DO NOT NEED THOSE SPECIFIC RENDERS RIGHT NOW!" which is also fair enough... Both of us had a very solid argument, and we were both right.

So, we needed to find a solution to this conflict to move forward. It was agreed upon that Instead of Sin just making renders of his own choosing willy nilly randomly rendering unrelated things... that instead, he would solely and specifically make renders that I put an order form in for so that we could make it into a coherent story with an overarching plot, and character development and good pacing.

A render order form is basically like this: A text file. I name the characters in the scene. I name the time of day. I mention any props needed for the scene. I mention the location of the scene. Then I go render by render on how I want the scene to play out. I do this loosely allowing for sin to add "Bonus in between renders" to smooth it out and stretch it out. So I may make a list of 40 or 50 renders, and sometimes sin may even stretch that out to 80 or 100 adding additional content in between renders listed. Sin was doing a great job at that and really going above and beyond. Give him props for that.

This new method worked really great for us in terms of producing quality content in a timely way and was much more efficient than the old way of sin randomly rendering whatever especially for storytelling purposes. However, I feel that sin felt like he was a bit on a leash like a slave or I was the boss of him, and I think he wanted to render what he wanted to render.

Anyways Christmas rolls around, and we are both pushing as hard as we can for that first release and we have a great first release in terms of popularity, but a bit more mediocre when it comes to money. Lots of 5-star reviews, but not a lot of 5 dollar patrons.

We figure maybe it's because there is no sex scenes yet? So we expand day 1 into some fun dream sex stuff. We make a heterosexual sex scene (Natash + Bishop) also Sin wanted a demon so we got a demon... but some folks started to complain. "We want lesbians!" So I tell Sin that is what people want, and (we decide on a Rose + Saphire scene). So we had an initial release plus a couple of tiny releases.

At some point, some troll was talking shit to me in this forum, and Sin took the side of the troll over mine. It was at this point I started to seriously lose trust in Sin. Sin doesn't really like to do the forum stuff. I don't mind it and enjoy engaging with folks in here. I have like 10 times more posts than him.

One day Sin drops a support ticket in on f95 (without giving me a heads up) with a "Change me to OP of Damaged Goods thread." I liked having the OP so I could control what tags are put in, and modify the OP and proofread it to fit. This started a fight, so I message the mods here, and I'm like "Put it back..." They wouldn't do it without Sins permission because were trying to "avoid drama" when they started drama by doing that in the first place... You see Sin had everything in his "SinAppeal" name... The discord, patreon, buy me a coffee, instargam, twitter ect... It's all sin sin sin sin sin... All branded Sin... I had just the 1 that was me as OP. Besides I'm a bigger forum whore than him. We had a battle over that, and Sin admitted to the moderators that I deserve to have OP so he apologized and moved on from that. Around this time sin started his "Your the boss" stuff.

Anyways, I was looking at some games that had been abandoned, but also popular and I saw an old game I liked called "My Sweet Neighbors." That was a great game, and I think it had a fun opening. So I go to sin with this idea. I tell him, hey why don't we make a 2nd game with a male lead as a way to make more money? This time we can start it out to a similar way as MSN, and make our own story out of it. This one first person perspective with a male lead, and smaller cast. We will call it "My Sweet Temptation", and make our own version of that same starting point that game had. Sin totally gets on board with it, and has me make a render order form for it, and I mention it in the forums, and say how we are gonna be working on a 2nd game...

,Sin totally worked on my "My Sweet Tempation" outline and idea making some changes, but by himself without me, without telling me, and changing the name to "Wings of Silicon". Obviously, this betrayal left a bitter taste in my mouth. Had sin simply come to me, and been lik. "Listen buddy I know you were psyched about working on this second game with me, but. I want to want to work on this side project alone. I want to do what I want to do without relying on you to make the story." I'd have been much less upset and have been okay with that, had he simply asked me... but he never asked me is the thing, plus he changed the name of it. This really pissed me off, and fights were had because of this.

At this time I had been working a ton of extra hours real life because... Being homeless sucks, and I needed to be able to move to a new place and would rather not be homeless. So for a few months there I couldn't really spend much time on game development, and Sin had that to work on, and I said to Sin something along the lines of. "I'm gonna be busy RL for a few months. Come July I'll have been moved in for a week, and settled in and at that point in time I'll be ready get back to work on Damaged Goods." He gave me a nod, and a thumbs up about it, and I went along my way in april, may, and june handling my real-life situation packing boxes working extra hours, and all that stuff, and I was always looking forward to July to when I could get back to working on DG!

July comes around, and I go back to Sin, and I'm like "Hey I'm ready to work on DG again!" and Sin was kinda in the middle of a WoS update at this time, and was focused on that... Which is fine, and I'm thinking "Alright when that is done, we can get back to DG" so I wait for his release on WoS... Drop him another line... Once again not ready to work on DG... So look at Discord... No DG stuff in there.... Same with instagram, and twitter, and patreon and all that. If you look at any of those now you wouldn't even think Damaged Goods exist... but We got it put on hold, and Sin didn't want it on hold, but I Got it put on hold, and we had a fight about it.

I have messaged him a few times inquiring about getting back to work on DG, and he has been giving me the run around. This most recent time I was simply ignored, and so I go on the forums and saw once again another "update when?" post... It's like fuck it... Just call it abandoned it's clear Sin isn't gonna be on board, and I can't replicate his renders so that plane won't fly with 1 wing.

Anyways I'm not salty at Sin at all like I said I don't hold grudges. I don't hate anyone. I just want him to keep his promises, and stop being so... secretive... It's like he tries to be sneaky but gets caught so easily every time he does this... Boggles my mind. That he doesn't take the time to give me a simple message that would avoid MAJOR drama...

Sin said he was gonna get back to work on it when he gets better, and I'll work on it once more. If Sin wants a mediator to play middle man sending my messages to him that doesn't bother he can do that.

We will see where it goes from here.

 

[microskills]

Geez this whole thing sounds like Breeding Season (or whatever it was called) all over again.
I think the best things you guys can do is:
A: Take a break from collaboration, it's very apparent that things are heating up not cooling down between you two
B: If you're going to work together, setup some common goal with the collaboration, you can't have one going "community" and the other "funds".

 

[yihman1]

Geez this whole thing sounds like Breeding Season (or whatever it was called) all over again.
I think the best things you guys can do is:
A: Take a break from collaboration, it's very apparent that things are heating up not cooling down between you two
B: If you're going to work together, setup some common goal with the collaboration, you can't have one going "community" and the other "funds".

I do not know the story behind the breeding season situation so I can not comment on it.

Actually, the break from the collaboration is a big part of what is causing the friction between myself and Sin.

If I wanted to "Make Sin Happy" here is all I need to do:
Step 1: Don't talk to him. Let him do his own thing.
Step 2: Go do your own thing while avoiding the Damaged Goods thread.
Step 3: Wait patiently for a very long time in an "on-call" situation This could be 6+ months, a year, two years, or even forever.
Step 4 (possible in theory not yet shown to be possible in practice): At some point that is not guaranteed Sin may contact me several months or years from now. With a "Want to work on DG again?" sort of message. Then and only then get back into communication with Sin providing him my half of the production for Damaged Goods.

I pretty much did steps 1, and 2, and 3 for about 6 months. I was doing my own thing and we didn't send a message back or forth for probably 3 months at one point. Then I start messaging him again occasionally. Maybe once every 2 weeks on average with inquiries about getting back to work on DG.

Sin would never give me a clear answer as to when work on DG will start up again. It's always something non-commital like "Maybe later we will work on it." The last time I checked I can't set an appointment, and clear my schedule for the date and time of "maybe later". So that doesn't work for me. That may be a solution for Sin, but it is not a solution for me, and I think he is very much realizing that fact now.

I am a reasonable person. He gets a pass on that sort of answer, but just the first time around. However, not a second time not after his hijacking of My Sweet Temptation (Which he now calls Wings of Silicon) completely behind my back. Remember he was already on VERY thin ice at this point in time over how sneakily he handled that situation with me. All he needed to do was be upfront with me. He was not, and that SEVERELY damaged any possible trust I could have in him. A short private message about that matter would have kept him as trustworthy in my book. Sin cared so little about my ability to trust him... Well, he is seeing the effects of that now. He never even apologized for that.

A couple of weeks later when I try again and Sin shakes his magic 8 ball up to answer for him with "Ask Again Later"... Well, that's when I had to come out here and go put it on hold. I was going to put it on abandoned then but Sin convinced me to just go "On Hold".

I have been holding his feet to the fire applying public pressure on him in an attempt to get him to shit or get off the pot. He has been constipated long enough! No more vague non-answers.

I imagine Sin now looks at me the same way a person with a huge unpaid credit card bill looks at a bill collector, but instead of being a bill collector I am more of a "render collector".

It's not about money it is about principle and keeping promises. I am forcing sin to show some integrity or a lack of integrity I win either way and it makes his blood boil when I apply this sort of public pressure because all he wants to do is keep it on ice for a very long time if not forever. Well, a heatwave is coming and that ice is gonna melt one way or another.

 

[microskills]

I do not know the story behind the breeding season situation so I can not comment on it.

Actually, the break from the collaboration is a big part of what is causing the friction between myself and Sin.

If I wanted to "Make Sin Happy" here is all I need to do:
Step 1: Don't talk to him. Let him do his own thing.
Step 2: Go do your own thing while avoiding the Damaged Goods thread.
Step 3: Wait patiently for a very long time in an "on-call" situation This could be 6+ months, a year, two years, or even forever.
Step 4 (possible in theory not yet shown to be possible in practice): At some point that is not guaranteed Sin may contact me several months or years from now. With a "Want to work on DG again?" sort of message. Then and only then get back into communication with Sin providing him my half of the production for Damaged Goods.

I pretty much did steps 1, and 2, and 3 for about 6 months. I was doing my own thing and we didn't send a message back or forth for probably 3 months at one point. Then I start messaging him again occasionally. Maybe once every 2 weeks on average with inquiries about getting back to work on DG.

Sin would never give me a clear answer as to when work on DG will start up again. It's always something non-commital like "Maybe later we will work on it." The last time I checked I can't set an appointment, and clear my schedule for the date and time of "maybe later". So that doesn't work for me. That may be a solution for Sin, but it is not a solution for me, and I think he is very much realizing that fact now.

I am a reasonable person. He gets a pass on that sort of answer, but just the first time around. However, not a second time not after his hijacking of My Sweet Temptation (Which he now calls Wings of Silicon) completely behind my back. Remember he was already on VERY thin ice at this point in time over how sneakily he handled that situation with me. All he needed to do was be upfront with me. He was not, and that SEVERELY damaged any possible trust I could have in him. A short private message about that matter would have kept him as trustworthy in my book. Sin cared so little about my ability to trust him... Well, he is seeing the effects of that now. He never even apologized for that.

A couple of weeks later when I try again and Sin shakes his magic 8 ball up to answer for him with "Ask Again Later"... Well, that's when I had to come out here and go put it on hold. I was going to put it on abandoned then but Sin convinced me to just go "On Hold".

I have been holding his feet to the fire applying public pressure on him in an attempt to get him to shit or get off the pot. He has been constipated long enough! No more vague non-answers.

I imagine Sin now looks at me the same way a person with a huge unpaid credit card bill looks at a bill collector, but instead of being a bill collector I am more of a "render collector".

It's not about money it is about principle and keeping promises. I am forcing sin to show some integrity or a lack of integrity I win either way and it makes his blood boil when I apply this sort of public pressure because all he wants to do is keep it on ice for a very long time if not forever. Well, a heatwave is coming and that ice is gonna melt one way or another.

Thanks for the clarity, mind you I'm not trying to shame you or anyone about the goals, to point was more to illustrate how fundamental disagreements can handicap each other (i.e. you need money to get a community and a community to get money).

About breeding season here's a good article about it:

You must be registered to see the links

I think it's probably best if both of you goes your separate ways (after what is required is done) since it seems very obvious it's more than goals/pacing that are throwing spanners left and right in the (future) project's way.
And if that is the case, it's better to let it rest and learn from the experience (as easy as it sounds) and try to find new avenues.
Since I'm pretty sure Sin will/could have valid reason for X, Y, Z; what's more problematic however is that you or him talking about each other in the "he said, she said" manner will only increase the pressure upon whoever is marked as the "bad one" as was the case with the artist of breeding season (it wasn't until he released skype logs I think people changed their opinion that it was the manager/developer's fault).

So for you personally I can't obviously dictate what you should do, but one piece of advice would be to look into:
A: Do you want to continue to do this profession?
B: What can you yourself learn to have more control over your project (render, scripting, storytelling, etc.)
C: What equipment is the bare minimum I need? Are there cheaper temporary options (like cloud render farms)
D: Longterm look into get in touch with experienced/season devs/creators about protentional collabs, perhaps only do small projects at first but then if it clicks make bigger projects.

 

[yihman1]

Sin is going to do what Sin is going to do. Based on all of his previous actions, and all conversations I have had with him here is what I think his plan is, and how he has executed it so far, and what I think he is trying to do in the future.

These steps are not necissarily in order. Sometimes they overlap. They all get done, and work towards what I feel are Sins goals.

Step 1: Make sub-par renders for the last release of Damaged Goods in an attempt to sabotage it. Evidence of this can be seen by the lack of backgrounds and bad angles and bad lighting used in the most recent DG update. I think he may have intentionally botched this. He was unwilling to fix the bad renders before release as well not really giving a shit. This was important for his plans because he wants Damaged Goods to sink. Seriously if you don't believe me on this I want you to look at look at the most recent DG update, then look at the renders from his first game's demo "A guy's dream" (now abandoned)... Then look over at "WoS" then look at every render prior to the most recent DG update. You will notice a significant and noticable drop in quality on the most recent DG update in comparison to each and every other render sin has ever made. The public don't have the renders but I do, even our "unused renders" are much better than the botched ones. It is possible he just did a half assed job because he was more concerned with WoS at the time, and he didn't do it on purpose and he did mention some hardware troubles aroudn that time.

Step 2: Steal the "My Sweet Temptation" colaboration project, and rebrand it as "Wings of Silicon". Making that game was never sins idea. That was my idea, and Sin agreed to work on it together and went along with it, then took it over without telling me. That really left me feeling very betrayed. The sad thing is he did it secretly and discretely behind my back trying to be sneaky. Sin really just wanted it all to himself then I'd have just let him have it like I eventually did, and didn't really fight about it. I felt like a person who had been cheated on or robbed when Sin did that to me. I felt stabbed in the back by a person I considered one of my closest friends at the time. A five minute talk putting me in the loop back then could have saved a friendship, and avoided all of my current suspicions aimed at Sin.

Step 3: Remove, and replace all "Damaged Goods" content. Got pictures of the girls on instagram? DELETE! Put WoS in it's place!! Tweeting about DG? Don't do that anymore... Tweet WoS instead! Patreon? Shift it over to WoS! Discord server? I would believe Sin saying something along the lines of "Well I am working on WoS at the moment so the new stuff put on social media should reflect that." That would be a fair enough argument, and I would actually agree completely on that... If not for the deleted Instagram stuff. Instagram doesn't put some sort of limit on the number of pictures you can have. That is like burning an old photo album. The deletion there shows his mindset. "Delete Damaged Goods" must have been on his mind.

Step 4: Put Damaged Goods on an indefinite hiatus & just starve it out of relevance. That definitely puts a hamper on the fan base growing. If a game is never getting any updates, or social media attention, and doesn't have a discord for the fans to gather how could it possibly continue to grow especially with the most recent update intentionally botched? It can not grow without additional development and social media.

Step 5: Give WoS all the love 5 star treatment. All the updates and renders, and social media, and patreon and all that jazz. Hype it up, pump it up as much as possible try to make it grow bigger than Damaged Goods. Given enough time and enough updates it may grow a fan base bigger than Damaged Goods as DG is in the state of being starved out by Sin.

To me WoS is just a parasite that grew on top of Damaged Goods and is doing its best to suck the life out of Damaged Goods. That is why I decided not to wait any longer before doing this when I am doing this. The longer I wait the more stagnent and atrophied Damaged Goods becomes along with the parasite growing.

Sin said he is going to send a mediator to me and is willing to get back in production on Damaged Goods. Give DG it's own twitter, and patreon, and instagram and discord and all that stuff. I'll believe it when I see it happen.

If Sin actually comes through which I have my doubts about for the above mentioned reasons then I will not tolerate botched renders anymore like the previous DG update. We will release something spectacular or nothing at all. If he does actually pull through and give DG 50% of the rendering resources saving the other 50% for WoS I am going to make DG way more popular than it ever was and blow WoS out of the water.

If Sin never sends that mediator to get things back into production, and I was right about this then oh well... Thats life. I did what I could to keep it alive. I'm just gonna keep on practicing my drawing skills for a while and make a game where I am not 100% reliant on a 3rd party for visual art.

 

[yihman1]

I'm usually a pretty laid-back guy. To completely avoid the drama & conflict & stay on good terms with me here is what I think Sin needed to do differently, and it's seriously not a whole lot.

1) Be more upfront with me especially when it came to his plans to make WoS by himself. All he had to do was be like. "Yo, I'm gonna work on this project bro. I know you wanted in on that too, and it was your idea for us to do that but I'm gonna go this one solo." The secrecy behind his actions is what caused the problems. It's not that he is being creative and taking some initiative. We came to an agreement about this after the fact where he would give up some creative control on DG in exchange for full control of WoS. I was happy to make that trade at the time, but only because I assumed he would not abandon DG. I am holding him to that agreement if things ever move forward on DG.

2) WoS should have started out with a completely different Patreon account (and all other social media). Since he wanted to do that project solo it should have had its own separate channels. It causes problems for them to both be on all the same things. This would not have been a problem had we both been working on both projects. It would have been fine to keep them mixed under those circumstances. However, since he wanted that one to himself it's not good to mix the two of them together because it muddies the water too much. Suppose we had a big success. Imagine we were more productive and popular and released a few updates from each game and that Patreon account hit $10,000 a month. Maybe he would say "Well this success is 90% WoS and only 10% DG..." I could argue back "It's obviously 90% DG and 10% WoS" We could compromise and say "Well maybe it's about 50/50?"

3) The lack of me having a character at all in WoS was off-putting because the protagonist is the developer of Damaged Goods. This is probably the least of his Sins sins, but probably hurt most of all. I didn't need or want my character to be the star of the show, or even a main character, or to even have a visual representation. I'm just talking about a minor cameo and nothing more. I could have been a mysterious voice on the phone (although we never chat on the phone only discord, a phone is a better visual and a fair enough visual representation of some communication). There is a scene in that game where he is talking to a buddy on the phone. That could have very easily been my character. Maybe a quick message like "The script is ready for showtime baby!" Sin saying after that" Alright, send me a copy, and I will release it on Patreon." All I'm saying is if you are going to do the story of the creation of DG as the starting point then not include the author in that story... Really? It is a bit insulting, to say the least. If the shoe was on the other foot Sin most definitely would have been the "phone friend" that supplies the visual art. It would have been like "Here is a download link for the renders. Let me know when the script is done." Building that story based on a lie as if Sin was the ONLY ONE makes no sense when the truth wouldn't harm the story at all. I don't even really care anymore what Sin does about this or if he changes it at all... It was just a dick move on his part to completely write the author out. I put in hundreds of hours into DG, and the dude doesn't even give me a 1 liner... as a little nod to say "You were there with me in the trenches!"

4) Stop Neglecting DG & stop treating WoS like the golden child. This is pretty self-explanatory. I understand that some of his development time and resources must now go towards his other project. I don't want him to break his promises to the WoS fans. The way I look at it is if you had two kids would you feed one but then starve the other? No of course not. Sounds like a pretty bad parent to me. As a Game Developer, you are kinda like the parent of your game in a sense. Both games need as fair and equal treatment by Sin as possible.

 

[The Wicked One]

Holy shit... I didn't think there would be a VERY public falling out between the creators of this game on F95.

 

[yihman1]

Holy shit... I didn't think there would be a VERY public falling out between the creators of this game on F95.

There is a first time for everything.

If Sin wants off my personal shitlist of game developers that includes only Sin & gumdrop right now here is what he needs to do:

(He can wait until he is fully healthy again and out of the hospital for all of this. I'm patient.)

1) Apologize for the way he handled the WoS launch releasing it behind my back, and then not tossing the author a mention or cameo. I felt that was extremely rude, and untrustworthy behavior. It really hurt my feelings that he would act that way.

2) Show that he cares about DG as much as he cares about WoS. No more all talk this requires action. Because actions speak louder than words. The fans are dying for an update. DG needs its own social media presence and to get back in production.

3) Act in a more trustworthy way moving forward. Keeping your promises, and being more willing to set solid internal schedules as we once did."Maybe later" is far too vague and open-ended for me to set aside time to work on something.

That is all he needs to do moving forward to be back in my good graces, and he is cool with me again. If he can grow as a person in this way that would be great.

If he can do all that I'll apologize for the 1-star review of WoS, and even toss it a 5-star review if I get my 1 liner cameo that is, and I'll also apologize for making this drama so public because I know he hates looking bad publicly and this has been pushing his buttons, and if he is man enough to admit he was wrong he will once again look great publicly after this drama. Then it would all be fixed.

Ball is in his court right now.

 

[The Wicked One]

There is a first time for everything.

If Sin wants off my personal shitlist of game developers that includes only Sin & gumdrop right now here is what he needs to do:

(He can wait until he is fully healthy again and out of the hospital for all of this. I'm patient.)

1) Apologize for the way he handled the WoS launch releasing it behind my back, and then not tossing the author a mention or cameo. I felt that was extremely rude, and untrustworthy behavior. It really hurt my feelings that he would act that way.

2) Show that he cares about DG as much as he cares about WoS. No more all talk this requires action. Because actions speak louder than words. The fans are dying for an update. DG needs its own social media presence and to get back in production.

3) Act in a more trustworthy way moving forward. Keeping your promises, and being more willing to set solid internal schedules as we once did."Maybe later" is far too vague and open-ended for me to set aside time to work on something.

That is all he needs to do moving forward to be back in my good graces, and he is cool with me again. If he can grow as a person in this way that would be great.

If he can do all that I'll apologize for the 1-star review of WoS, and even toss it a 5-star review if I get my 1 liner cameo that is, and I'll also apologize for making this drama so public because I know he hates looking bad publicly and this has been pushing his buttons, and if he is man enough to admit he was wrong he will once again look great publicly after this drama. Then it would all be fixed.

Ball is in his court right now.

I know you were talking about an intermediary, to sort of hash out what is going on between you two. I volunteer. I am completely un-bias, since I had no idea there was "beef", and I literally had no idea this game existed until like 2 days ago.

 

[Trash_sombra11]

all ready knew this trash would die game was ass lol

 

[yihman1]

I know you were talking about an intermediary, to sort of hash out what is going on between you two. I volunteer. I am completely un-bias, since I had no idea there was "beef", and I literally had no idea this game existed until like 2 days ago.

If Sin wants one that's fine ask him. I don't care who it is.

 

[yihman1]

all ready knew this trash would die game was ass lol

How long have you been spelling "already" as "all ready"? Did you know that these two things mean different things?

Here is a helpful tutorial for you to learn the difference.

You must be registered to see the links

 

[Helmeted Smith]

dam no wonder why this game was bad with toxic devs like this lol you both are clowns

Dude, I was just practicing a drawing style while making some fanart.
The portrayal Rose in an antithetical manner was clearly done for satirical purposes.
This method of depicting a character is common practice in fan arts, and it is meant for a "ha ha" moment.

 

[Trash_Panda]

Why didn't it generate funds faster? four reasons.

1) Female Protagonist. A lot of people simply will not play or support a game if it has a female protagonist. It's a limited market playing on hard mode. Look at the top 100 adult games in terms of earning, only a couple in there with a lady as the star of the show. That pattern continues down to the bottom. It's definitely hard mode with a lady lead.

I think it goes for both ways. The people like me who enjoys female protag content more is also on a hard mode when it comes to game search. There just isnt many especially if we want specific tags along with fem protag.

 

[DIRTY FILTHY Animal]

Probably never as I don't think Sin cares about Damaged Goods at all anymore. For numerous reasons.

1) He makes more money with WoS. He makes like $200 with that but was only making like $100 on DG. In spite of DG being significantly more popular in the forums and reviews than WoS never made enough money to satisfy Sin. A complete wanna-be ripoff of My Sweet Neighbors is more profitable than an awesome original game with a female protagonist, unfortunately.

2) He doesn't even bother to return my messages anymore. Last time I messaged him I asked him flat out "Want to work on a DG update?" It has been like a week and he has never replied back. I think Sin doesn't like me at all for some reason.

3) Try to compromise and be like "Want to work on DG at 1/3 capacity and WoS at 2/3?" Nah, fuck that he won't give it that much love.

4) Sin was a bit insistent on adding certain things to DG and at times doesn't like to listen... For example, I never planned to add that completely black dream demon character. Sin saw that they had something like that in "Dreams of Desire" and thought it would be good to just add a demon for... reason... Then I'm like alright let's add an angel too... That angel is just one of our female students and has no wings and doesn't look anything like an angel...

5) The last update on DG was shit. Sin did shitty renders with no backgrounds and doesn't give a fuck how much I had to adjust the story to fit it to cover for it. Do you think I wanted him to render completely black backgrounds? No... You think I was like "Hey go ahead and not give Kelly any neighbors or anything around her house... Just make it an empty foggy void..." Hell no... Sin normally does GREAT renders, but the last DG update was trash that he rushed through because he was working on WoS on the down-low.

6) Sin removed any mention of Damaged Goods from Patreon, Instagram, Discord, his profile, and so on...

I honestly don't think Sin even cares about DG at all anymore. He is completely unmotivated to work on it even just a little bit. Either it's because he hates me, or he is a control freak and doesn't that doesn't like working with anyone in collaboration (as that means less control), or he is too intimidated by the size and scope of the project... Maybe it is because it wasn't making the money he demanded... Frankly, I don't know his reasons maybe it is a little bit of all of these or something else... Not really sure what his reasoning is, but I have no faith that Sin will want to continue development on DG in the foreseeable future.

Anyways if Sin hits me up and is like "Let's work on DG..." I'll be like "Sure thing buddy." Then we will be working on it pretty much right away.

I think that sin is more concerned about another Abandoned Tag decreasing his reputation further thus costing him some money than he is about actually abandoning the project thus his attempts to drag out an "On Hold" Tag as long as he can.

You know... If Sin comes around and wants to work on it we can revive it, but I don't forsee Sin ever working on it. So... It's abandoned as far as I know.

Check out the artists that do renders on the AWAM fan page, there really talented and could probly work with you, good luck I liked your game

 

[leg28]

all ready knew this trash would die game was ass lol

translation please?

 

[leg28]

There is a first time for everything.

If Sin wants off my personal shitlist of game developers that includes only Sin & gumdrop right now here is what he needs to do:

(He can wait until he is fully healthy again and out of the hospital for all of this. I'm patient.)

1) Apologize for the way he handled the WoS launch releasing it behind my back, and then not tossing the author a mention or cameo. I felt that was extremely rude, and untrustworthy behavior. It really hurt my feelings that he would act that way.

2) Show that he cares about DG as much as he cares about WoS. No more all talk this requires action. Because actions speak louder than words. The fans are dying for an update. DG needs its own social media presence and to get back in production.

3) Act in a more trustworthy way moving forward. Keeping your promises, and being more willing to set solid internal schedules as we once did."Maybe later" is far too vague and open-ended for me to set aside time to work on something.

That is all he needs to do moving forward to be back in my good graces, and he is cool with me again. If he can grow as a person in this way that would be great.

If he can do all that I'll apologize for the 1-star review of WoS, and even toss it a 5-star review if I get my 1 liner cameo that is, and I'll also apologize for making this drama so public because I know he hates looking bad publicly and this has been pushing his buttons, and if he is man enough to admit he was wrong he will once again look great publicly after this drama. Then it would all be fixed.

Ball is in his court right now.

ok, i'm neutral in this war, although i liked dg.
but man you become irrational. both of you throw so many toxic on each other, especially you on him lately (deservingly according your story).
now, after all earlier tirades, in this post you made a list of demands to sin what to do if he wants to be in good with you. ok you're hurt and i understand apology you asked for.
but wtf is this in ad.2 & 3: show he cares for dg and act more trustworthy in the future???
so, what that means? you want to continue to work with him? how? why if he is as you said?
he said few days ago, few posts above, he has no intention to communicate with you.
so he don't cares about dg anymore (if he ever did).
this started to look like bitter divorce. cheated, hurt and abandoned wife with her kid (you & dg) are throwing loads of shit on bastard hubby sin (deserving, i guess because you are so pissed) and demanding apologies, more care about kid and sincerety in future marriage.
hey, breaking news, you are divorced, your bastard ex-hubby don't care about you and kid, he moved on and already has new gf (wos)
so leave these futile yappings and lamentations and see can you do this yourself or can you find new partner (what i guess would be difficult after this overkill) or just forget developing and be player. also what neither of you were thinking: abandoning games and this kind of discussion cannot help in gaining future support. so you move on too.

 

[leg28]

I think he was trying to say something like:
"I have never made anything creative before. So all I can do is shit on others that do."

ok this trash_somba is trasher, but you also have to keep on your mind: you cannot denay someone right to criticized product just because he cannot do the same. following that logic you cannot criticize any type of smartphone since you never made one. or in creative industry that means nobody could wrote book or movie critic unless he/she wrote book or shoot the movie.
one is in your favor: what trash_somba wrote is immature, illiterate childish post and has nothing to do with critics and criticizing

 

[yihman1]

ok, i'm neutral in this war, although i liked dg.
but man you become irrational. both of you throw so many toxic on each other, especially you on him lately (deservingly according your story).
now, after all earlier tirades, in this post you made a list of demands to sin what to do if he wants to be in good with you. ok you're hurt and i understand apology you asked for.
but wtf is this in ad.2 & 3: show he cares for dg and act more trustworthy in the future???
so, what that means? you want to continue to work with him? how? why if he is as you said?
he said few days ago, few posts above, he has no intention to communicate with you.
so he don't cares about dg anymore (if he ever did).
this started to look like bitter divorce. cheated, hurt and abandoned wife with her kid (you & dg) are throwing loads of shit on bastard hubby sin (deserving, i guess because you are so pissed) and demanding apologies, more care about kid and sincerety in future marriage.
hey, breaking news, you are divorced, your bastard ex-hubby don't care about you and kid, he moved on and already has new gf (wos)
so leave these futile yappings and lamentations and see can you do this yourself or can you find new partner (what i guess would be difficult after this overkill) or just forget developing and be player. also what neither of you were thinking: abandoning games and this kind of discussion cannot help in gaining future support. so you move on too.

I thought these things were fairly self explanatory. I guess I'll break that down further.

#2 "Show that he cares for DG"

A developer shows that they care about their project in various ways. Working on it being the biggest way. Promoting it is also another way. Not working on it for many months, and deleting all of its social media or rather handing them over to a new project shows that you give zero fucks about a project. Sin viewed it as "stillborn" as it never generated the desired revenues to feed sins hunger for money.

#3 "Be more trustworthy in the future"

Sin going behind my back on various things, and not keeping his word, or refusing to make or keep promises being the biggest parts of this. He also likes to try to gaslight me as well but I'm not having that anymore.

The sort of developer who would not want to work with me for holding Sins feet to the fire over his bad behavior and making him accountable is not the sort of developer I would want to work with anyways. I'm ghostwriting as lead writer for another project now anyways.

ok this trash_somba is trasher, but you also have to keep on your mind: you cannot denay someone right to criticized product just because he cannot do the same. following that logic you cannot criticize any type of smartphone since you never made one. or in creative industry that means nobody could wrote book or movie critic unless he/she wrote book or shoot the movie.
one is in your favor: what trash_somba wrote is immature, illiterate childish post and has nothing to do with critics and criticizing

A valid point, and I have always welcomed constructive critism.

No matter how great something is that you make or do there will always be critics. Haters gonna hate. There are different types of criticism, and some of it is good criticism and other is garbage. I'll explain the difference.

A good valid / constructive criticism offers possible solutions, and points out specific problems whereas an invalid criticism is just negative with no answers offered and vague.

"This game sucks ass. It is the worst game I ever played. I really did not like this game, and I would not recommend it to anyone. Hard pass."

Fair enough, not for everyone, but that doesn't give me any information so it can be pretty much completely ignored. On the other hand if someone was like:

"I did not like this game. The reason for that is because X Y & Z." Well X is a problem we are aware of and working on to improve that, but it is difficult. Y is something that we like and are not going to change and is an important part of the game. And Z has already been fixed in the next update.

 

[Trash_sombra11]

I think he was trying to say something like:
"I have never made anything creative before. So all I can do is shit on others that do."

fuck you got me thats all can do lol game was shit get fucked but let me to you why writing was ass story goes fucking bonkers town bad transitions Wtf was that money scene god awful characters they all suck ass and lets touch on the story thats the best you can come up with a drug that makes people do what to get naked and turns them ? the only good thing about the game was the renders but even then thats not saying much since they all had some weird faces And all you did is translate the game lol shit game