VN Ren'Py Completed Dating My Daughter [Ch. 1-4 v1.01] [MrDots Games]

[Jeff Steel]

4

Be in shock all you want buddy. I wrote over 40 books in my life and keep doing so for a living so far and in terms of story or plot DMD is not that impressive. My standards for a well written story or characters are high.
I could fill half a book with the issues of the characters, the story elements or the plot as a whole but thats not my business nor my concern.

Apart from one game on this forum most stories are garbage or absolutely ridiculous.
And sex games are not going to impress you with a well written story but with sex. In this case fucking your daughter.
And that part is done.
So in terms of story Mr. Dots would have to impress me alot with a plot twist pull out of nowhere to save this story AFTER having sex with the daughter.

The ppl who play DMD for the story are in the minority as are most ppl in this forum (lets be realistic here its all about sex ) are here for exactly that. Sure a well developed story has its benefits but DMD has no such thing.
All the story elements are there to blue ball you not to advance a plot.

And before you ask.

The game with a well written story and believable characters and plot is
Acting Lessons

Believeable well written characters.
A simple but realistic plot to follow and most important a story twist that has nothing to do with the sexual encounters or blue balling the player. Tragic and comedy well written into the plot elements.
Thats on point for a good story. Is the game short? Yes. Is it well written. Yes.

Is DMD well written? Depends on the view.
For a sex game absolutely.
For anything else. No.

And before you ask or bombard me with sarcasm again.
I write in german language and no i wont tell you the names of my books as its non of your business and my publishing company would not be very fond of me if i would do that in such a kind of forum.

PS: So far i got asked from 6 devs in this forum for story writing expertise and i didnt even charge money for it. And i will keep doing so if devs want to. I do this in my free time and help devs improve their story writing which for beginners is a nightmare to deal with. But thanks for the sarcasm. I enjoyed reading it ^^

As an also unpaid contributor, I differ in what I find important in this VN. First, for me, the art is the draw of me to this VN. I got involved in this project to help with the storyline and bring a theater and legal background. DMD as a first project was (for me) captivating visually and concept wise; Melody is better; and I hope the next project will be even better. (However, with I keep coming back to DMD as the most captivating for me).

I see that you’ve comentend on a lot of projects in f95, so your interest must be visual oriented as opposed to literary. Otherwise, why spend so much time and interest in this medium.

We differ, perhaps, in that visuals alone do not interest me. Every good erotic image for me hints at a story behind that image. So for me, and perhaps many others, the DMD VN does not loose its interest in the loss of virginity, but rather in what happens next. So for me, at least, the last release was a culmination of one part of the story, but I’m much more interested in the next threads.

Now I can understand if you write in a fictional capacity, you bring a much more critical eye to the writing, etc. I get that as I do the same for live theater and for the actions of other attorneys in court as well as any legal movie or television show. I have a short fuse in those areas. But since I am not bringing those predispositions to DMD, I am still emotionally invested in the outcome.

“Is DMD well written? Depends on the view.
For a sex game absolutely.
For anything else. No.”

I disagree. I find this better writing than 99.9% of the writing in actual porn. I find the writing combined with visuals more engaging than a lot of television (esp the WB and Hallmark). I find the combination more engaging than most regional theater. But then, I am looking at the product as a whole.

I have not yet had the time to play “Acting Lessons”, though I hear good things. I will look forward to it. Btw, my favorite story thread so far out of any not MDots product has to be from Teachers Pets and the thread around the student who goes with the MC to the college open house - the combination of art, character build and scripting was great (although I admit I only followed it to where they were at the college sitting on the bench across from the fountain). Nice piece.

 

[RustyV]

Be in shock all you want buddy. I wrote over 40 books in my life and keep doing so for a living so far and in terms of story or plot DMD is not that impressive. My standards for a well written story or characters are high.
I could fill half a book with the issues of the characters, the story elements or the plot as a whole but thats not my business nor my concern.

Apart from one game on this forum most stories are garbage or absolutely ridiculous.
And sex games are not going to impress you with a well written story but with sex. In this case fucking your daughter.
And that part is done.
So in terms of story Mr. Dots would have to impress me alot with a plot twist pull out of nowhere to save this story AFTER having sex with the daughter.

The ppl who play DMD for the story are in the minority as are most ppl in this forum (lets be realistic here its all about sex ) are here for exactly that. Sure a well developed story has its benefits but DMD has no such thing.
All the story elements are there to blue ball you not to advance a plot.

And before you ask.

The game with a well written story and believable characters and plot is
Acting Lessons

Believeable well written characters.
A simple but realistic plot to follow and most important a story twist that has nothing to do with the sexual encounters or blue balling the player. Tragic and comedy well written into the plot elements.
Thats on point for a good story. Is the game short? Yes. Is it well written. Yes.

Is DMD well written? Depends on the view.
For a sex game absolutely.
For anything else. No.

And before you ask or bombard me with sarcasm again.
I write in german language and no i wont tell you the names of my books as its non of your business and my publishing company would not be very fond of me if i would do that in such a kind of forum.

PS: So far i got asked from 6 devs in this forum for story writing expertise and i didnt even charge money for it. And i will keep doing so if devs want to. I do this in my free time and help devs improve their story writing which for beginners is a nightmare to deal with. But thanks for the sarcasm. I enjoyed reading it ^^

Well written kind of depends on the point of view of the reader.
Game of Thrones is a huge hit but for me it's mostly plots plagiarized from early English history (though the Red Wedding hearkens to the massacre of Saint Bartholomew's Day in France) with gratuitous sex used to fill poor writing. I am aware of the irony this being an adult game forum site.
So eye of the beholder.

 

[Jeff Steel]

Well written kind of depends on the point of view of the reader.
Game of Thrones is a huge hit but for me it's mostly plots plagiarized from early English history (though the Red Wedding hearkens to the massacre of Saint Bartholomew's Day in France) with gratuitous sex used to fill poor writing. I am aware of the irony this being an adult game forum site.
So eye of the beholder.

Lol, for me I could not make my way past the first novel, but I adore the HBO series. (You must understand that law school virtually killed my ability to have the focus and patience to make it through most novels anyway - which is a fault on my part but is a reality.). But I do find the HBO series emotionally engaging to the extreme.

It may be in the eye of the beholder. My wife was a huge fan of the Twilight movies, and she enjoyed them emotionally; me not so much. I adore the Marvelous Mrs Maisel series; my wife, not so much.

However, I do know my wife bristles at criticism of the Twilight movies. And I do know we have some people who criticize the different products on f95 - and some criticize so many of the different games, it makes you wonder why they are playing them anyway that they post 90% criticisms. — And some say “hey, it’s valid criticism”. — Imo, if you are trying to start a dialogue, you would say:

“I like this game for x reasons. However, here are my criticisms (and here are some suggestions and/or examples of who does it better for comparison). “

It seems to me that the more interesting posts in f95 open a dialogue about the game, and those, and we know who they have been over the years, who just throw down criticisms - it makes people wonder are those people just there to troll. (What fond memories of troll fights there have been on this thread over the past 2+ years [that’s sarcasm])

PS - for me GoT rocks!

 

[Endrju]

Be in shock all you want buddy. I wrote over 40 books in my life and keep doing so for a living so far and in terms of story or plot DMD is not that impressive. My standards for a well written story or characters are high.
I could fill half a book with the issues of the characters, the story elements or the plot as a whole but thats not my business nor my concern.

Apart from one game on this forum most stories are garbage or absolutely ridiculous.
And sex games are not going to impress you with a well written story but with sex. In this case fucking your daughter.
And that part is done.
So in terms of story Mr. Dots would have to impress me alot with a plot twist pull out of nowhere to save this story AFTER having sex with the daughter.

The ppl who play DMD for the story are in the minority as are most ppl in this forum (lets be realistic here its all about sex ) are here for exactly that. Sure a well developed story has its benefits but DMD has no such thing.
All the story elements are there to blue ball you not to advance a plot.

And before you ask.

The game with a well written story and believable characters and plot is
Acting Lessons

Believeable well written characters.
A simple but realistic plot to follow and most important a story twist that has nothing to do with the sexual encounters or blue balling the player. Tragic and comedy well written into the plot elements.
Thats on point for a good story. Is the game short? Yes. Is it well written. Yes.

Is DMD well written? Depends on the view.
For a sex game absolutely.
For anything else. No.

And before you ask or bombard me with sarcasm again.
I write in german language and no i wont tell you the names of my books as its non of your business and my publishing company would not be very fond of me if i would do that in such a kind of forum.

PS: So far i got asked from 6 devs in this forum for story writing expertise and i didnt even charge money for it. And i will keep doing so if devs want to. I do this in my free time and help devs improve their story writing which for beginners is a nightmare to deal with. But thanks for the sarcasm. I enjoyed reading it ^^

i wasn't sure to be honest if i overdid it or even worse u wouldn't sense it at all im glad u did though it saves me time to explain all that gibberish u never know who u talking to
i hate break it to u 'buddy' but this whole forum its all about sex, and fuckin and... wait for it... its all about little guy to make his own game or whatever u like to call mr big shot and to be honest i don't care about ur 'expertise' if done in style of a ranting, no many people do (if at all) and for damn sure writer of DMD dont.
thing is pumpkin im writing my own story and my little dream :embarrassed: was to someday have a possibility to talk about it with the professional u know exchange notes and all that fun shit but now though when i see u i think i will give it a pass. (if u ofc are who u say u are, but then again i have this weird feel i sense this strange vibe in the air of a someone who is better then everyone else and i don't think i would be able to endure such a company. congrats on ur books though I'm certain they are awesome)
now all things considered I'm for real intrigued.. u played the game for months and u didn't notice it have a week story? or u could just stumble on the game which doesn't change the fact that u played it through, how good of a writer are u hmm? its in ur face like its all about father and daughter, name of the game explains most of it and if ur not sure 1st hour or two are like self explemantory. (funny)
when u come here on forum like this for story (it's hilarious by the way) based games from the people who i say 'mostly' didn't even held a book in their hands and u expect to shit blow ur mind then ur rant its even more funny
tell me though are u one of this dudes who was going in for the story in Avatar? same thing here with DMD

I'm awfully sorry, normally I'm very polite person but this shit always cracks me up good

 

[fauxplayer]

i wasn't sure to be honest if i overdid it or even worse u wouldn't sense it at all im glad u did though it saves me time to explain all that gibberish u never know who u talking to
i hate break it to u 'buddy' but this whole forum its all about sex, and fuckin and... wait for it... its all about little guy to make his own game or whatever u like to call mr big shot and to be honest i don't care about ur 'expertise' if done in style of a ranting, no many people do (if at all) and for damn sure writer of DMD dont.
thing is pumpkin im writing my own story and my little dream :embarrassed: was to someday have a possibility to talk about it with the professional u know exchange notes and all that fun shit but now though when i see u i think i will give it a pass. (if u ofc are who u say u are, but then again i have this weird feel i sense this strange vibe in the air of a someone who is better then everyone else and i don't think i would be able to endure such a company. congrats on ur books though I'm certain they are awesome)
now all things considered I'm for real intrigued.. u played the game for months and u didn't notice it have a week story? or u could just stumble on the game which doesn't change the fact that u played it through, how good of a writer are u hmm? when u come here on forum like this for story (it's hilarious by the way) based games from the people who i say 'mostly' didn't even held a book in their hands and u expect to shit blow ur mind then ur rant its even more funny
tell me though are u one of this dudes who was going in for the story in Avatar? same thing here with DMD

I'm awfully sorry, normally I'm very polite person but this shit always cracks me up good

Clit commander, I like the cut of your jib and find myself agreeing with you once I read your posts enough times to figure out what you're saying . But out of curiousity, how hard is it to type the word you? YOU make good points when YOU are discussing YOUR viewpoints on this game, but it's hard to take YOU seriously when YOU keep typing u and ur. It made sense in 2006 when 13-year-old girls wanted to save money on texting surcharges, but I'm pretty sure that's not a concern anymore. I honestly don't mean any offense, and like I said, I enjoy reading your posts because your perspective is interesting and valuable once I take the time to decipher it--I'm honestly just wondering why you consciously, intentionally use "u" in 2018?

 

[Endrju]

Clit commander, I like the cut of your jib and find myself agreeing with you once I read your posts enough times to figure out what you're saying . But out of curiousity, how hard is it to type the word you? YOU make good points when YOU are discussing YOUR viewpoints on this game, but it's hard to take YOU seriously when YOU keep typing u and ur. It made sense in 2006 when 13-year-old girls wanted to save money on texting surcharges, but I'm pretty sure that's not a concern anymore. I honestly don't mean any offense, and like I said, I enjoy reading your posts because your perspective is interesting and valuable once I take the time to decipher it--I'm honestly just wondering why you consciously, intentionally use "u" in 2018?

hehe its a good point, thank you for this emmm i think its because of a the time when and where i was growing up. Now that i know about it i will try to work on it
Dont worry i don't get easily offended

 

[Miðgarðsormr]

Acting Lessons is a well written game and I understand you don't want to give out names of your books or publisher name but which games have you written for so people can try those out for a good story line?

I have written for no one as doing so would take up my working time which i would have to compensate for money. Something most devs would not be able to afford. So i just give them advice. Starting mostly that sexual encounters are all about the feeling, the taste, smell, goosebumps etc. not about just yay pussy lets fuck. In VN you have the advantage to give pictures or even animations but the best animation can be increased in experience if you describe it right. And VNs live by the writings and then by the pictures and/or animations.

Same goes for characters most are shallow and only one dimensional. Making a three dimensional character is not hard but it takes time. The easiest and shortest way is to draw out fears, humor and relationships to each other. Boom you have a believeable three dimensional character. Of course you should focus on the MC first then on the main characters she/he interacts with.
For a story the answer is mostly pretty simple. Ask yourself if this would happen in Real Life what would it look like? Humor, Disgust, Surprise, Curiosity etc. All stuff you can use to make a scene believeable.
No one believes ppl just fuck out of pure plot.
As example a sister doesnt hump her brother out of the blue. Is she curios about sexuality? Is she a bitch but secretly in love with the mc? All that can make a character more believable in and of itself.

Well written stories according to my standards are
Acting Lessons
(this game should be a blue print on how to do a well written story with believable characters and story elements) You have a main plot, Side story, plot twist and a good amount of humor to make it feel real.
On top of that you have a bromance that is not only integrated into the main plot (wingman) you feel attached to the bromance even more then to a chick in this game as a male. Tradegy also plays a significant role and makes the story even more sink in.
Melody
(Where mr. Dots proofs he can do three dimensional characters well and a story that makes sense. If he keeps this standard up he will make alot of money in the future)
Akabur games
(the story is mostly garbage but the characters are well written and stay true to the portrayed characters of each fictional universe and they are good for a laugh so humor is the main source driving akabur)
Big Brother
(Story meh, Characters especially the older sister believable af. She is bitchy. in Love with the MC but her bitchyness stays up at all times. Like older sisters mostly are. ^^)
Milfy City
(Story is believable and well written the blue balling makes sense inside of the story elements. No incest relationship starts out of nowhere you need a build up and the game does it great. This counts for the sisters as the mother is just straight fucked up horny all day. Also believable if you take into a account a mother/son complex disorder.
Summertime Saga
(Not only makes the story as it unfolds for the mc sense from a fictional point of view you have characters by the mass and they all are different in their own way. The sister is a bitch but secretly loves the MC. The mother is driven by guilt and love for the loss of the father and the aunt is straight up focused on work alone by all means necessary)
The Twist
(you cant go wrong with this one. Story is funny even tough most of it is beyond ridiculous but the characters all have a different reason to have a sexual encounter with the MC something you can just suck out of your fingers. Was a lot of fun playing this one. With this you also have a lot of humor that drives the story on.

I played them all and can honestly say they do more things right then they do wrong. Of course you could improve alot by writing alone and there are more games that have a good story but when the main focus is on and about sex you NEED a believable story and believable character development.
Otherwise you just made a time consuming fuck simulator no one will think about after fapping. And the main focus is to make money of it and generate income. For that you must hook the audience with something they cannot get elswhere and that is a good writen story. Three dimensional characters and a believable plot.

Also some good games are
Long live the princess Not sure if i got the name right but i enjoyed the game non the less.
Something unlimited (Not for the story but the characters are true to their fictional universes)
Tangled up (story and characters are well written and the sexual encounters happen out of curiosity and love)
The fate of Irnia (Story good, characters good, What else you need for a good game?)

I could go on but that would consume even more of my time. I cant write all day such long posts. I got to work also ^^

 

[Miðgarðsormr]

4

As an also unpaid contributor, I differ in what I find important in this VN. First, for me, the art is the draw of me to this VN. I got involved in this project to help with the storyline and bring a theater and legal background. DMD as a first project was (for me) captivating visually and concept wise; Melody is better; and I hope the next project will be even better. (However, with I keep coming back to DMD as the most captivating for me).

I see that you’ve comentend on a lot of projects in f95, so your interest must be visual oriented as opposed to literary. Otherwise, why spend so much time and interest in this medium.

We differ, perhaps, in that visuals alone do not interest me. Every good erotic image for me hints at a story behind that image. So for me, and perhaps many others, the DMD VN does not loose its interest in the loss of virginity, but rather in what happens next. So for me, at least, the last release was a culmination of one part of the story, but I’m much more interested in the next threads.

Now I can understand if you write in a fictional capacity, you bring a much more critical eye to the writing, etc. I get that as I do the same for live theater and for the actions of other attorneys in court as well as any legal movie or television show. I have a short fuse in those areas. But since I am not bringing those predispositions to DMD, I am still emotionally invested in the outcome.

“Is DMD well written? Depends on the view.
For a sex game absolutely.
For anything else. No.”

I disagree. I find this better writing than 99.9% of the writing in actual porn. I find the writing combined with visuals more engaging than a lot of television (esp the WB and Hallmark). I find the combination more engaging than most regional theater. But then, I am looking at the product as a whole.

I have not yet had the time to play “Acting Lessons”, though I hear good things. I will look forward to it. Btw, my favorite story thread so far out of any not MDots product has to be from Teachers Pets and the thread around the student who goes with the MC to the college open house - the combination of art, character build and scripting was great (although I admit I only followed it to where they were at the college sitting on the bench across from the fountain). Nice piece.

As i said my standards are high and that is my gift and my curse. I meant in no way that DMD is bad cause it isnt. But for my standards its not enough. Now of course the VN part is what interests me but in combination with the visuals you could do so much yet not many tap in to the full potential cause its time consuming and wears you out alot.
Writing is in no ways easy and takes alot from your time. Time you need to invest in the visual parts as well. And thats where i have a problem with. Of course you need your Visuals in a VN but you could say so much more with a well written story and characters.

I invest alot of time into playing and watching in this forum as for me its amazing to see how some good ideas can make a great game yet companies with AAA status produce one garbage game after another.
As example Dragon Age Origins did almost anything absolutely perfectly. Yet any other installment of the franchise was an absolute garbage show.
So to me this forum is what AAA companies can not do. Make good games. Tell great stories and with low or no budget at all. To me this is enough to invest some time and help ppl who want help. I dont force ppl to listen or do anything i say. If someone asks i give advice and what they do with it is up to them. Sometimes the best characters are made when u drive the player to the point of starting to hate said character.

I for one hate elena out of my guts. And that is good writing as i find this little shit annoying as fuck. I would however not make the daughter in DMD this naive and shy. I never encounterd a women so gifted with huge tits and blonde who didnt take advantage of her natural gifts one way or another. But this is my personal experience and the dev focused in another direction.
The story and how the relationship unfolds between the dad and the daughter is well written and by no means is bad.
Its just full of potential i see that is not taken and just rots away that baffles my mind.
Even i could not write me out of this corner where the story of DMD right now is. Well maybe i could but thats not the point here. It would be hard for me and even harder for the dev and his team.
Yet i believe its possible to make the story interesting again. How is not up to me but to the dev and the team.

To me the daughter and the dad are to shallow. Elena is perfect. I hate her. Thats because alot of thinking went into making her a side story a nuisance to the player who isnt interested in her. Thats where the Real life part comes in. You encounter alot of women you dont want but they want you. Thats why i hate her and thats why she as a character is written perfectly. If a player wants to invest time with her he/she can do so but if not she is annoying af. Perfect.

I dont expect full blown story writers to start enlisting in the gaming industry of sex games like in AAA Titles as that would cost so much money the VN would be dead before anyone did anything.

I dont watch porn for the reasons you mentioned. The writings in porns are all without exception completely ridiculous. Comparing DMD writings to a porn writing we got a masterpiece (DMD) against complete garbage.
Like take Game of Thrones against Vikings.
The better story writers and character development happens in Vikings yet Game of Thrones gets all the glory.
Cause most ppl are to lazy to invest time to watch how characters got established and accumulate into the main plot of a storyline. They want action and they want it now. Not tomorrow but NOW!
If you would compare the books with the show (GOT) you would be dissapointed in the visual portrayal of the characters alone.
Same for lord of the rings.

But all that aside i do agree that a good VN can do alot with its visuals and less writing. However only if the writing is on point. A post before i mentioned a few games i played that i liked for different reasons.

Melody as example is what a game in my view should be story wise. Nothing is forced. All plays out well and as writing is a journey where you learn alot by your mistakes i think the team and the dev learned alot from DMD thats why melody is superior in many ways.

In my book Melody does what DMD did not. Take its time to establish the characters and their personality better and longer and then focus on the main events (sexual) by having a way better character development and a deeper one.

So to me melody does alot better and should be in no way influenced by me or anyone else outside the thinking box. And i even told some devs that i wont give advice as they do things right and my advice is to take non into account. Some ppl are gifted other learn it on the way.

As for acting lessons. That dev is gifted beyond believe in story writing and character design. I never seen someone not being in the writing industry making look writing this easy. ^^

 

[Endrju]

this dude is a fucking savage im telling you i will make a dare for myself to read all of it to be honest though for a game to force someone for that kind of investment into expression of his opinion and feelings must be at least worth a try (I'm not payed for any advertising whatsoever)

 

[Jeff Steel]

As i said my standards are high and that is my gift and my curse. I meant in no way that DMD is bad cause it isnt. But for my standards its not enough. Now of course the VN part is what interests me but in combination with the visuals you could do so much yet not many tap in to the full potential cause its time consuming and wears you out alot.
Writing is in no ways easy and takes alot from your time. Time you need to invest in the visual parts as well. And thats where i have a problem with. Of course you need your Visuals in a VN but you could say so much more with a well written story and characters.

I invest alot of time into playing and watching in this forum as for me its amazing to see how some good ideas can make a great game yet companies with AAA status produce one garbage game after another.
As example Dragon Age Origins did almost anything absolutely perfectly. Yet any other installment of the franchise was an absolute garbage show.
So to me this forum is what AAA companies can not do. Make good games. Tell great stories and with low or no budget at all. To me this is enough to invest some time and help ppl who want help. I dont force ppl to listen or do anything i say. If someone asks i give advice and what they do with it is up to them. Sometimes the best characters are made when u drive the player to the point of starting to hate said character.

I for one hate elena out of my guts. And that is good writing as i find this little shit annoying as fuck. I would however not make the daughter in DMD this naive and shy. I never encounterd a women so gifted with huge tits and blonde who didnt take advantage of her natural gifts one way or another. But this is my personal experience and the dev focused in another direction.
The story and how the relationship unfolds between the dad and the daughter is well written and by no means is bad.
Its just full of potential i see that is not taken and just rots away that baffles my mind.
Even i could not write me out of this corner where the story of DMD right now is. Well maybe i could but thats not the point here. It would be hard for me and even harder for the dev and his team.
Yet i believe its possible to make the story interesting again. How is not up to me but to the dev and the team.

To me the daughter and the dad are to shallow. Elena is perfect. I hate her. Thats because alot of thinking went into making her a side story a nuisance to the player who isnt interested in her. Thats where the Real life part comes in. You encounter alot of women you dont want but they want you. Thats why i hate her and thats why she as a character is written perfectly. If a player wants to invest time with her he/she can do so but if not she is annoying af. Perfect.

I dont expect full blown story writers to start enlisting in the gaming industry of sex games like in AAA Titles as that would cost so much money the VN would be dead before anyone did anything.

I dont watch porn for the reasons you mentioned. The writings in porns are all without exception completely ridiculous. Comparing DMD writings to a porn writing we got a masterpiece (DMD) against complete garbage.
Like take Game of Thrones against Vikings.
The better story writers and character development happens in Vikings yet Game of Thrones gets all the glory.
Cause most ppl are to lazy to invest time to watch how characters got established and accumulate into the main plot of a storyline. They want action and they want it now. Not tomorrow but NOW!
If you would compare the books with the show (GOT) you would be dissapointed in the visual portrayal of the characters alone.
Same for lord of the rings.

But all that aside i do agree that a good VN can do alot with its visuals and less writing. However only if the writing is on point. A post before i mentioned a few games i played that i liked for different reasons.

Melody as example is what a game in my view should be story wise. Nothing is forced. All plays out well and as writing is a journey where you learn alot by your mistakes i think the team and the dev learned alot from DMD thats why melody is superior in many ways.

In my book Melody does what DMD did not. Take its time to establish the characters and their personality better and longer and then focus on the main events (sexual) by having a way better character development and a deeper one.

So to me melody does alot better and should be in no way influenced by me or anyone else outside the thinking box. And i even told some devs that i wont give advice as they do things right and my advice is to take non into account. Some ppl are gifted other learn it on the way.

As for acting lessons. That dev is gifted beyond believe in story writing and character design. I never seen someone not being in the writing industry making look writing this easy. ^^

Thanks for the great points as you are in the 1% (maybe 2%) to take the time on a criticism with reasons why, analysis, and examples of what gets done well. (Maybe 3% ... no, 2%)

As for how people don’t have the patience to wait for the unfolding of a story, and thus like the GoT or LotR onscreen more than the books, I don’t disagree. I’m guilty of that myself: pre-college I read all the Tolkien materials including the Simarillian (...take that back, and not Bergen and Luthien...and anything else published after @ 1990). Sometime during Law School I trained or busted my mind to get quickly to the point and be less patient with the slower path many a novel takes. Sad.

I differ from your POV on the LotR movies, however. Now if you want to talk about the issues between the Hobbit as a book and the Hobbit as a trilogy - oh my goodness, what the f....

Interestingly, DMD started off as MDots on his own, and Hearsz and Gaetano came on as writers later. I came on about a year and a half ago, and at that time Elena and others were lacking in depth. I think the characters have made strides. I think Elena is the most complex character due to our group input, especially as the “girl left out” of a D focused romance.

Melody development was build the characters (at least Melody, Amy, and MC) from the ground up prior to putting pen to script. A story arc was devised for MC and Melody at this time too. The other characters did not get that same “pre writing” development, with varied results. I still thing that there isn’t enough character driven plot in Melody however.

Take my current tv crush, The Marvelous Mrs Maisel. That has a somewhat similar plot to Melody in someone ... at least sort of close ... in an artist learns their craft and starts spreading their artistic wings. The beauty of Maisel is you have 90% of the action and dialoguemthen comingmout of the varied and wildly vibrant characters inhabiting that story. In essence for me, the plot gets the characters into the same room, but the characters then drive the rest.

Melody is good, but it could be tighter in areas and more “Mrs Maisel” character driven. (But then again, if you had me as the sole writer, Melody would have attempted suicide by now due to the loss,of her mother, the actions of her step father, and a feeling of hopelessness ... attempted is the key word and would give the MC and Melody a much bigger hole to climb out ofmbefore the end of the story.)

I anticipate the next MDots project will build off of the steps made in the previous two in terms of character and structuring.

Thanks for your suggestions, btw, on the other games as I too have little time to spend in looking through the games.

 

[Endrju]

I'm impressed @Yggalf when it comes to the writing i think we have very similar taste and want the same thing from whole expirience but you definitely can explain it much better I will remember all of what you said here and definitely use it to improve within my story i hope you dont mind. I'm very thankful for your time here and i was agreeing with most of the stuff but there is one thing i never did get to be honest, it's not only about you here but i was wondering why people are expecting more from something than it really can offer? i have in mind already mentioned DMD or Avatar and ofc similar 'stuff'. Its.. ok wait.. it was for me personally kind of straightforward to figure out what can i expect from DMD (storywise) or maybe it is just as you said 'my blessing and a curse' to feel thoes things... I dont know....

There are two things you said i really liked

I invest alot of time into playing and watching in this forum as for me its amazing to see how some good ideas can make a great game yet companies with AAA status produce one garbage game after another.

Like take Game of Thrones against Vikings.
The better story writers and character development happens in Vikings yet Game of Thrones gets all the glory.
Cause most ppl are to lazy to invest time to watch how characters got established and accumulate into the main plot of a storyline. They want action and they want it now. Not tomorrow but NOW!

i cant agree more with both of thoes statements, its mind boggling. Just how is it possible that even with so much money so many AAA companies can butcher every story they are telling, is it really laziness? Thats why im here though, thats why i invest my time on this forum and with thoes games, becouse they give me (if made with care) so much more of what i thought was already lost.
I really liked what you said about Acting Lessons, thats how storytelling schould look and feeel like.
Thanks again i have much to reflect on now...

 

[Jeff Steel]

Btw, another Adult Game Artist doing a smashing job on developing and analyzing his (or their) work is Ianvs. I am blown away on reading his personal weekly analysis of what they are doing, why they are doing it, and what is next. It is a textbook example on how to do self reflective work.

 

[Endrju]

Btw, another Adult Game Artist doing a smashing job on developing and analyzing his (or their) work is Ianvs. I am blown away on reading his personal weekly analysis of what they are doing, why they are doing it, and what is next. It is a textbook example on how to do self reflective work.

i will definitely look into that

 

[Jeff Steel]

i will definitely look into that

I am a patron of his stuff in Patreon, but if you are not a patron, he is open to discussions as well on f95

 

[Proto Persona]

AAA games generally have bare bones stories because the industry long ago figured out that engaging gameplay can be monetized easily. John Carmack of Doom fame once said "Story in a game is like a story in a porn movie. It's expected to be there, but it's not that important." It's an industry driven mainly by accountants and computer coders, emotional story attachments aren't usually high on their list of priorities.

Often most of a game's set pieces and sequence are figured out and worked on before anyone ever starts writing plot and dialog. The writer usually has the unenviable job of retrofitting a story into an almost complete game. It's like if movies were filmed ahead of somebody writing a screenplay.

 

[Endrju]

AAA games generally have bare bones stories because the industry long ago figured out that engaging gameplay can be monetized easily. John Carmack of Doom fame once said "Story in a game is like a story in a porn movie. It's expected to be there, but it's not that important." It's an industry driven mainly by accountants and computer coders, emotional story attachments aren't usually high on their list of priorities.

Often most of a game's set pieces and sequence are figured out and worked on before anyone ever starts writing plot and dialog. The writer usually has the unenviable job of retrofitting a story into an almost complete game. It's like if movies were filmed ahead of somebody writing a screenplay.

there is nothing more to add i guess

 

[Pantisocrat]

Often most of a game's set pieces and sequence are figured out and worked on before anyone ever starts writing plot and dialog. The writer usually has the unenviable job of retrofitting a story into an almost complete game. It's like if movies were filmed ahead of somebody writing a screenplay.

With big-budget tentpole releases, this is pretty much the case, actually. Scriptwriters are hired and told that there's e.g. a high-speed freeway chase scene at the end of the second act.

 

[Ed B]

Lol, for me I could not make my way past the first novel, but I adore the HBO series. (You must understand that law school virtually killed my ability to have the focus and patience to make it through most novels anyway - which is a fault on my part but is a reality.). But I do find the HBO series emotionally engaging to the extreme.

It may be in the eye of the beholder. My wife was a huge fan of the Twilight movies, and she enjoyed them emotionally; me not so much. I adore the Marvelous Mrs Maisel series; my wife, not so much.

However, I do know my wife bristles at criticism of the Twilight movies. And I do know we have some people who criticize the different products on f95 - and some criticize so many of the different games, it makes you wonder why they are playing them anyway that they post 90% criticisms. — And some say “hey, it’s valid criticism”. — Imo, if you are trying to start a dialogue, you would say:

“I like this game for x reasons. However, here are my criticisms (and here are some suggestions and/or examples of who does it better for comparison). “

It seems to me that the more interesting posts in f95 open a dialogue about the game, and those, and we know who they have been over the years, who just throw down criticisms - it makes people wonder are those people just there to troll. (What fond memories of troll fights there have been on this thread over the past 2+ years [that’s sarcasm])

PS - for me GoT rocks!

It's engaging and entertaining to watch but if you REALLY look at the time period it's set in....Who is THAT clean shaven in all parts at that time in age lol lol

 

[Ed B]

I have written for no one as doing so would take up my working time which i would have to compensate for money. Something most devs would not be able to afford. So i just give them advice. Starting mostly that sexual encounters are all about the feeling, the taste, smell, goosebumps etc. not about just yay pussy lets fuck. In VN you have the advantage to give pictures or even animations but the best animation can be increased in experience if you describe it right. And VNs live by the writings and then by the pictures and/or animations.

Same goes for characters most are shallow and only one dimensional. Making a three dimensional character is not hard but it takes time. The easiest and shortest way is to draw out fears, humor and relationships to each other. Boom you have a believeable three dimensional character. Of course you should focus on the MC first then on the main characters she/he interacts with.
For a story the answer is mostly pretty simple. Ask yourself if this would happen in Real Life what would it look like? Humor, Disgust, Surprise, Curiosity etc. All stuff you can use to make a scene believeable.
No one believes ppl just fuck out of pure plot.
As example a sister doesnt hump her brother out of the blue. Is she curios about sexuality? Is she a bitch but secretly in love with the mc? All that can make a character more believable in and of itself.

Well written stories according to my standards are
Acting Lessons
(this game should be a blue print on how to do a well written story with believable characters and story elements) You have a main plot, Side story, plot twist and a good amount of humor to make it feel real.
On top of that you have a bromance that is not only integrated into the main plot (wingman) you feel attached to the bromance even more then to a chick in this game as a male. Tradegy also plays a significant role and makes the story even more sink in.
Melody
(Where mr. Dots proofs he can do three dimensional characters well and a story that makes sense. If he keeps this standard up he will make alot of money in the future)
Akabur games
(the story is mostly garbage but the characters are well written and stay true to the portrayed characters of each fictional universe and they are good for a laugh so humor is the main source driving akabur)
Big Brother
(Story meh, Characters especially the older sister believable af. She is bitchy. in Love with the MC but her bitchyness stays up at all times. Like older sisters mostly are. ^^)
Milfy City
(Story is believable and well written the blue balling makes sense inside of the story elements. No incest relationship starts out of nowhere you need a build up and the game does it great. This counts for the sisters as the mother is just straight fucked up horny all day. Also believable if you take into a account a mother/son complex disorder.
Summertime Saga
(Not only makes the story as it unfolds for the mc sense from a fictional point of view you have characters by the mass and they all are different in their own way. The sister is a bitch but secretly loves the MC. The mother is driven by guilt and love for the loss of the father and the aunt is straight up focused on work alone by all means necessary)
The Twist
(you cant go wrong with this one. Story is funny even tough most of it is beyond ridiculous but the characters all have a different reason to have a sexual encounter with the MC something you can just suck out of your fingers. Was a lot of fun playing this one. With this you also have a lot of humor that drives the story on.

I played them all and can honestly say they do more things right then they do wrong. Of course you could improve alot by writing alone and there are more games that have a good story but when the main focus is on and about sex you NEED a believable story and believable character development.
Otherwise you just made a time consuming fuck simulator no one will think about after fapping. And the main focus is to make money of it and generate income. For that you must hook the audience with something they cannot get elswhere and that is a good writen story. Three dimensional characters and a believable plot.

Also some good games are
Long live the princess Not sure if i got the name right but i enjoyed the game non the less.
Something unlimited (Not for the story but the characters are true to their fictional universes)
Tangled up (story and characters are well written and the sexual encounters happen out of curiosity and love)
The fate of Irnia (Story good, characters good, What else you need for a good game?)

I could go on but that would consume even more of my time. I cant write all day such long posts. I got to work also ^^

But you still didn't mention any games you've given advice on

 

[Miðgarðsormr]

But you still didn't mention any games you've given advice on

Because it is not up to me to reveal that. They write a PN towards me and i answer when i have time.
If they would want my advice in the open in a thread or post i'm pretty sure they would do so if that was their wish.
Since they didn't do that i respect their privacy and won't spill it unless they give approval which is up to them and not me.
I don't think devs would be very fond of the idea me spiling out who i gave advice in what matter and to what extend.

I don't create games nor do i have a clue on how to do so. I simply do writing as a living. To me it would be like taking glory i had nothing to do with and i think most devs feel the same. Its them who create the games not me. All i give is advice on maybe 2 or 3 scenes or maybe how to improve the story telling. Nothing to detailed or to hard to learn.
For that i can't take credit as i had no part in making the game or in its creation process nor in the thinkin process.

However i can reveal that the games i have given writing advice are in the list i provided even tough some are missing.
Which games exactly i cannot say.

To give a good example think of it as this. I write a book. My publisher likes the book but not that it is connected to me as it would ruin either my reputation or it is for another audience or for adults only.
So we create an alias and publish it over that.
I write fantasy books. I also wrote 3 Erotic Novels whith less income then my fantasy books did but they are not associated with me but an alias. So i can't take credit for my 3 books even tough im the one who wrote them.

This is similar. I cannot and will not take credits on games or even story writing i had little to do with. I give advice on how to improve and don't write for anyone in this forum.

Can i help? yes. Do i write lines or scenes? No. For that reason i cannot take credit nor reveal said devs. If they want to tell that i helped them it is up to them not me. Sorry.