VN Others Completed Daughter for Dessert [Ch. 19] [Palmer/Love-Joint]

[JoeSte91]

A high degree of psychological health and consistency seem demanded of Amanda.

Maybe higher than of people in real life?

I don't think anyone is demanding a high degree of psychological health. I could understand if she was 'rocked' by a revelation that the story of her parents wasn't what she'd been led to believe. What doesn't make sense is how quick she takes to the alternative, especially given that her father is the only parent she's ever known and someone she has sexual feelings for, strong enough that she'd write and post stories about them on the internet.

Maybe she would back off and try and assess the situation, but it's not just her actions. Her words are cold and have no warmth or care. She doesn't come across as conflicted, which is what Palmer wanted to convey. The only indicator to the contrary is the sex scene, but it's timing and placement within the story make it seem forced. I think it would have been better if it'd happened earlier, like when they went to separate bedrooms, maybe she crawls back into bed with him, they have sex but when he wakes shes gone again. That kind of scene might have indicated that she was struggling between what she was being told verses what she felt.

Honestly, I think Palmer and the writers got a good idea but got a bit too trigger happy in executing it. Again, we're not demanding a high degree of psychological health, we're lamenting the fact that the writing doesn't give us a clear indication of what her psychological health really is.

Even of the (otherwise) most attractive, noblest or best: > "hamartia" in Ancient Greek tragedy.

Amanda can have flaws. She doesn't have to be perfect. But you also can't suddenly begin a new chapter and declare 'character x has the sin of pride' if they haven't been arrogant or self-involved before. If anything, Amanda's fatal flaw would be her loyalty, at least until recently, considering she gives up a lot to stay with her father and build the business back up.

2) if Amanda (and the others too) were wise, all-seeing, all-knowing creatures, perhaps there might not be this or many other storylines. ~ Gripping drama needs mistakes and serious, even catastrophic misperceptions. Intense fallouts, sudden coldness, intrigues and bewilderments, strange bedfellows, unexplained behavior ... are, at least, a dramatically necessary device.

No they're not. Plot devices are simply tools you use to build a story, but they still have to make sense within the context of the story. In other words, it doesn't matter how much you hammer in a nail if you should be using a drill and screw, at someone point what you've built is going to fall apart because you didn't use the right tool for the job.

I may come across as really pissed about this, but honestly it's just disappointing because I did feel that the story was previously well written, and this just feels like a major misstep. @fauxplayer suggests that maybe it's all an act, which might be the only way I could buy the sudden change, but even then I still feel that there should be more conflict within her actions, that she should want to tell him everything, but knows its in his best interests to keep him in the dark. It also puts the MC in a passive, rather than active state, and in fact I'm starting to wonder if this story should have been from Amanda's point of view all along. I know then we wouldn't get to fuck Heidi or Kathy, but it's really starting to seem that Amanda is the MC making all the decisions that we just seem to be orbiting around.

 

[Avaron1974]

Amanda was always unlikable, the real reasons that kept me and probably a lot other people playing are the other girls.

I will say that I did like Amanda as a character originally but Kathy was always the girl I had more interest in getting to know romantically.

Stories like this will always run into this problem. The dev has one story to tell however people reading will have a preference on the characters they want to see more of.

Games that push you towards one outcome will always get backlash by those wanting one of the other characters, it's why I think if you want one girl to be the focus you need to severely limit the interactions with other girls. Everyone has different tastes and we'll never agree on who a main character should end up with.

Were that the choice here then mine would end up with Kathy, some with Heidi, some with Lily, some with V, one with Moe and some with Amanda.

This seems to be heading towards an Amanda ending which is going to put some people off but, as I said, it's the devs story to tell and we are along for the ride.

My issue here is less with the story line of Amanda's aunt and more that Amanda has shown a side to her that I don't like in anyone be it in games or IRL. That's not Palmers fault, it's on me. That and I already had a bias towards Kathy so now I don't like Amanda and have a preference for Kathy but the dev still has his own story to tell which isn't to cater to my personal tastes.

I probably should have stopped playing when things started happening that grated on my nerves but Kathy is a goddess and Heidi is awesome so while some things may irritate me, those 2 are more than enough to carry the game on their own merit.

 

[Carpe Stultus]

I will say that I did like Amanda as a character originally but Kathy was always the girl I had more interest in getting to know romantically.

Stories like this will always run into this problem. The dev has one story to tell however people reading will have a preference on the characters they want to see more of.

Games that push you towards one outcome will always get backlash by those wanting one of the other characters, it's why I think if you want one girl to be the focus you need to severely limit the interactions with other girls. Everyone has different tastes and we'll never agree on who a main character should end up with.

Were that the choice here then mine would end up with Kathy, some with Heidi, some with Lily, some with V, one with Moe and some with Amanda.

This seems to be heading towards an Amanda ending which is going to put some people off but, as I said, it's the devs story to tell and we are along for the ride.

My issue here is less with the story line of Amanda's aunt and more that Amanda has shown a side to her that I don't like in anyone be it in games or IRL. That's not Palmers fault, it's on me. That and I already had a bias towards Kathy so now I don't like Amanda and have a preference for Kathy but the dev still has his own story to tell which isn't to cater to my personal tastes.

I probably should have stopped playing when things started happening that grated on my nerves but Kathy is a goddess and Heidi is awesome so while some things may irritate me, those 2 are more than enough to carry the game on their own merit.

I didn't really like Amanda from the start, i can't even really say why because its quiet a while ago that i've started playing the game, but her behaviour in the last episodes was just the final thing for me to really outright dislike her. Probably because i dislike people like this IRL too.

I'm not blaming the Dev for telling the story how he wants to tell it because its like you said we are just joining the ride and i agree that everyone has a different taste when it comes to the person the MC should end up with. Thats why many games have different options and i can only hope that the Dev will give us the option too, but i think we will end up with Amanda anyway because everything hints torwards this outcome.

 

[Irgendwie Irgendwo]

Yeah, maybe the problem is implementation and timing. I mean we went from a passionate office scene to cold shoulder in one chapter without any explanation. Or, to quote the great Lionel Richie: "What is happening here? Something's going on that's not quite clear..."

Nobody expects an instant resolution, but I find it quite ridiculous that the game has been treading water ever since with cryptic allusions to what the player / MC has done wrong when there is no chance in hell to figure it out because there is nothing in the game that gives any hint WTF is going on. A situation that will last for around 5 months since it spans several updates. With a throwaway sex scene in there to tide you over and make you think it might be okay, but which pales since you already had a threesome with two characters that are not in the doghouse elsewhere.

There are games out there in which the player actually is the evil one without knowing, but they don't usually go from happy go lucky to down in the dumps without warning from one chapter to the other.

At least, in one example of trivial literature, Ben Aaronovitch provided one of his characters with a possible reason and explanations why

Spoiler: Spoiler for Rivers of London Series / #4 Broken Homes

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[akshy]

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[PPE2RedDucks]

I don't think anyone is demanding a high degree of psychological health. I could understand if she was 'rocked' by a revelation that the story of her parents wasn't what she'd been led to believe. What doesn't make sense is how quick she takes to the alternative, especially given that her father is the only parent she's ever known and someone she has sexual feelings for, strong enough that she'd write and post stories about them on the internet.

Maybe she would back off and try and assess the situation, but it's not just her actions. Her words are cold and have no warmth or care. She doesn't come across as conflicted, which is what Palmer wanted to convey. The only indicator to the contrary is the sex scene, but it's timing and placement within the story make it seem forced. I think it would have been better if it'd happened earlier, like when they went to separate bedrooms, maybe she crawls back into bed with him, they have sex but when he wakes shes gone again. That kind of scene might have indicated that she was struggling between what she was being told verses what she felt.

Honestly, I think Palmer and the writers got a good idea but got a bit too trigger happy in executing it. Again, we're not demanding a high degree of psychological health, we're lamenting the fact that the writing doesn't give us a clear indication of what her psychological health really is.



Amanda can have flaws. She doesn't have to be perfect. But you also can't suddenly begin a new chapter and declare 'character x has the sin of pride' if they haven't been arrogant or self-involved before. If anything, Amanda's fatal flaw would be her loyalty, at least until recently, considering she gives up a lot to stay with her father and build the business back up.



No they're not. Plot devices are simply tools you use to build a story, but they still have to make sense within the context of the story. In other words, it doesn't matter how much you hammer in a nail if you should be using a drill and screw, at someone point what you've built is going to fall apart because you didn't use the right tool for the job.

I may come across as really pissed about this, but honestly it's just disappointing because I did feel that the story was previously well written, and this just feels like a major misstep. @fauxplayer suggests that maybe it's all an act, which might be the only way I could buy the sudden change, but even then I still feel that there should be more conflict within her actions, that she should want to tell him everything, but knows its in his best interests to keep him in the dark. It also puts the MC in a passive, rather than active state, and in fact I'm starting to wonder if this story should have been from Amanda's point of view all along. I know then we wouldn't get to fuck Heidi or Kathy, but it's really starting to seem that Amanda is the MC making all the decisions that we just seem to be orbiting around.

Good, thoughtful, comprehensive point of view, and I take your point/s on most of it. But, I think, your last paragraph does bear out in some way my suggestion that "falling out of love" (with a game, in this case) can mean, can lead to greater vehemence.

And yes, I put a different view, also personal. With a certain helping of hyperbole (the Greek-tragedy point about fatal flaws in heroes - I said hamartia, not hybris/hubris, by the way, I wasn't getting at a sin of overbearing pride, but rather, the tragedy of selective blindness!). But, maybe my minor hamartia in this case, I still get an impression from the action of the story - from her own behaviors above all - that Amanda is stuck in more turmoil than she shows, or wants to show. So, a sort of shutdown, emotional gridlock. If so, the "closed fridge front" aspect of her actions would not be simple cruelty, or even a logical choice. (Definitely not a Mr-Spock-logical choice. Maybe not logical enough, even by non-Vulcan standards, but hey ...)

(I'm not sure if the sex scene can be taken to suggest a melting of the greater tundra, btw. As regrettably may happen in IRL, it may in certain circs be a big physical release of tensions, laughing, joking, etc,. but not necessarily a freeing-up of heartfelt love and unconditional affection, honest reconciliation between the two, or any sort of liberation from problems inside (See e.g. RD Laing.) Meaning: f***ing doesn't have to plunge to the depths of "hate sex" or "revenge sex" to burst out .... but leave deeper emotions and concerns covered, locked up. Possibly even exacerbate locked inner conflicts, once the body cools down. Sex can be ... odd that way. ~ btw: What you require of Amanda, you might also require of our MC, no? He's not exactly a generous chatterbox after the dirty deed. He prefers to gabble away to us, rather than unpushily ask Amanda - please, for both their sakes, etc - to explain what it's all about.)

But we can perhaps agree to differ - slightly rather than massively, if I've understood your point(s) right ....

And anyway, as others have proposed, it's the way Palmer wishes to spin it, so .... hey.

And second, it's fiction, so maybe we shouldn't ask for too much answerability from characters, too much emotional logic. Yes, by all means be dissatisfied. dismayed, if our own code of rationality, basic sense of psychology (or even decency), and/or requirement of seamless plausible characterization in stories is offended.

But mebbe there's some gap there. Between one and another.

 

[PPE2RedDucks]

Yeah, maybe the problem is implementation and timing. I mean we went from a passionate office scene to cold shoulder in one chapter without any explanation. Or, to quote the great Lionel Richie: "What is happening here? Something's going on that's not quite clear..."

Nobody expects an instant resolution, but I find it quite ridiculous that the game has been treading water ever since with cryptic allusions to what the player / MC has done wrong when there is no chance in hell to figure it out because there is nothing in the game that gives any hint WTF is going on. A situation that will last for around 5 months since it spans several updates. With a throwaway sex scene in there to tide you over and make you think it might be okay, but which pales since you already had a threesome with two characters that are not in the doghouse elsewhere.

There are games out there in which the player actually is the evil one without knowing, but they don't usually go from happy go lucky to down in the dumps without warning from one chapter to the other.

At least, in one example of trivial literature, Ben Aaronovitch provided one of his characters with a possible reason and explanations why

Spoiler: Spoiler for Rivers of London Series / #4 Broken Homes

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Or to quote another song:

"There must be some way out of here!"
- Said the joker to the thief ...

 

[Irgendwie Irgendwo]

Or to quote another song:

"There must be some way out of here!"
- Said the joker to the thief ...

Prime example that I know that I have to click "All along the Watchtower" among the four possibilities in SongPop in the allotted time (and preferebly in less than a second) but have no clue about Jimi Hendrix lyrics.

As I am also not fully convinced that we're Dancing on the Ceiling once that situation is resolved.

 

[PPE2RedDucks]

(It's a Dylan lyric - even curiouser)

 

[JoeSte91]

I said hamartia, not hybris/hubris

I was using hubris as an example of hamartia, not suggesting the two were the same.

I still get an impression from the action of the story - from her own behaviors above all - that Amanda is stuck in more turmoil than she shows, or wants to show.

Any examples?

I'm not sure if the sex scene can be taken to suggest a melting of the greater tundra, btw. As regrettably may happen in IRL, it may in certain circs be a big physical release of tensions, laughing, joking, etc,. but not necessarily a freeing-up of heartfelt love and unconditional affection, honest reconciliation between the two, or any sort of liberation from problems inside

I wouldn't have necessarily thought so either, except that Palmer does imply it to be the one saving grace of their love and romance:

But. Chapter 14? I seriously don't see the issue. There is a clear romantic and passionate relationship there. But the "issues" needs to be resolved, is what Amanda is thinking.

What you require of Amanda, you might also require of our MC, no?

Sure, if I were in full control of the MC I'd be asking a lot more questions. Unfortunately, I can only ask what the story allows me to ask. Even so, the MC can only ask questions after Amanda has started giving him the cold shoulder, once he realises something is wrong. There was plenty of time before that when Amanda could have come to him first.

All writing exists to provoke a reaction. Even purely erotic fiction exists to provoke a sexual reaction. By it's very nature writing gets people invested because they have to get invested logically and emotionally to interact with it. You can't write a story then complain that people are taking it too seriously. It's like driving a car through a red light then getting upset at the people you caused to crash for taking driving too seriously.

 

[TheKryptonian]

Good, thoughtful, comprehensive point of view, and I take your point/s on most of it. But, I think, your last paragraph does bear out in some way my suggestion that "falling out of love" (with a game, in this case) can mean, can lead to greater vehemence.

And yes, I put a different view, also personal. With a certain helping of hyperbole (the Greek-tragedy point about fatal flaws in heroes - I said hamartia, not hybris/hubris, by the way, I wasn't getting at a sin of overbearing pride, but rather, the tragedy of selective blindness!). But, maybe my minor hamartia in this case, I still get an impression from the action of the story - from her own behaviors above all - that Amanda is stuck in more turmoil than she shows, or wants to show. So, a sort of shutdown, emotional gridlock. If so, the "closed fridge front" aspect of her actions would not be simple cruelty, or even a logical choice. (Definitely not a Mr-Spock-logical choice. Maybe not logical enough, even by non-Vulcan standards, but hey ...)

(I'm not sure if the sex scene can be taken to suggest a melting of the greater tundra, btw. As regrettably may happen in IRL, it may in certain circs be a big physical release of tensions, laughing, joking, etc,. but not necessarily a freeing-up of heartfelt love and unconditional affection, honest reconciliation between the two, or any sort of liberation from problems inside (See e.g. RD Laing.) Meaning: f***ing doesn't have to plunge to the depths of "hate sex" or "revenge sex" to burst out .... but leave deeper emotions and concerns covered, locked up. Possibly even exacerbate locked inner conflicts, once the body cools down. Sex can be ... odd that way. ~ btw: What you require of Amanda, you might also require of our MC, no? He's not exactly a generous chatterbox after the dirty deed. He prefers to gabble away to us, rather than unpushily ask Amanda - please, for both their sakes, etc - to explain what it's all about.)

But we can perhaps agree to differ - slightly rather than massively, if I've understood your point(s) right ....

And anyway, as others have proposed, it's the way Palmer wishes to spin it, so .... hey.

And second, it's fiction, so maybe we shouldn't ask for too much answerability from characters, too much emotional logic. Yes, by all means be dissatisfied. dismayed, if our own code of rationality, basic sense of psychology (or even decency), and/or requirement of seamless plausible characterization in stories is offended.

But mebbe there's some gap there. Between one and another.

On the random sex scene with MC and Amanda it only shows on the MCs side that HE still has a burning desire for her along with a lot of pent of frustration towards her for being completely cold-shouldered out of nowhere. On Amandas side it felt like a "well im a horny teen" so why not get a free lay, and its made obvious in her instant regret afterwards (like getting really drunk and sleeping with a random person just to get your rocks off) but definately not love.

And yes we as the players bring our own hangups or "faults" with us wherever we go (this story included) and im guessing 99.9% of people have experienced a similar situation where your with someone and everything is going great and then bam, confusion/anger city hits you in the gut. Palmer and his team have struck this nerve in this stories fans and I think his team underestimated just how off-putting it is to some and maybe this will be a lesson for future projects to not push on this particular nerve to hard next time (if just for dramatic effect) because im sure they spent a fair amount of time plotting the build up of Amandas character but now there is 0% chance of redemption by most people playing.

 

[supermanz95]

The game should have been named "Dad for Dessert", the daughter is an absolute predator, the poor guy never stood a chance.

 

[theplasterman]

Backup files are for the online version only. Does it still recognise that you played previous chapters? (try 12 and 13). Also please make sure you completed chapter 13 all the way.

I did not realize the backup was for online only, thank you. I played chapter 13 to the end and no, when i go back through all the previous chapters it does not recognize that i played. Im wondering if it had to do with the format of my external drive vs the new windows 10 im trying to run on. Looks like i will be replaying, not that i’ll mind to much.

 

[PPE2RedDucks]

[1] I was using hubris as an example of hamartia, not suggesting the two were the same.



[2] Any examples?



[3] I wouldn't have necessarily thought so either, except that Palmer does imply it to be the one saving grace of their love and romance:





[4a] Sure, if I were in full control of the MC I'd be asking a lot more questions. Unfortunately, I can only ask what the story allows me to ask. Even so, the MC can only ask questions after Amanda has started giving him the cold shoulder, once he realises something is wrong. There was plenty of time before that when Amanda could have come to him first.

[4b] All writing exists to provoke a reaction. Even purely erotic fiction exists to provoke a sexual reaction. By it's very nature writing gets people invested because they have to get invested logically and emotionally to interact with it. You can't write a story then complain that people are taking it too seriously. It's like driving a car through a red light then getting upset at the people you caused to crash for taking driving too seriously.

I've added numbers to your response, to make a further reply easier to decipher! (And so I don't have to cite/upload/link things.)

[1] and [3] - fair enough, I'll leave it there!

[2] Now you're putting me on the spot. I'm talking of impressions. And because we're talking of small tweaks in some cases, minutiae of differences in expressions/actions/reactions, I'd have to replay the whole game to fish out very specific examples ...!

So, vague as this may be (and my impressions may be mistaken):

a) Amanda shows more clouded, blank or troubled facial expressions than previously - ok, some might call that "the end of the age of innocence/innocent youth", but still!
b) And not just less ready warmth in (most) dealings with the MC (true, some shafts of light w momentarily relieved grins, as well as shafts of penis w temporarily relieved exhilarations - but the former seem no longer so common): also more silences, or what appears deliberate avoidance of his presence altogether.
> If it's simple hostility, hate, or one basic accusation, wouldn't she maybe, wouldn't most people - with other company asked to be present, if afraid it might get nasty/violent - tend to confront, have it out, demand explanations, rather than .... avoid? Avoidance, in the context of Mandy's changed behavior, looks like extreme awkwardness, rather than sudden deep antagonism.
c) The way Amanda is rapt;y watching porn before sex with MC (Ch10?), looks like part of that, a pattern of troubled distance: a handy objectification* of sex with our MC (*if I throw in a scary word - I mean, rather than with her previous wholehearted love affection & desire, - or girlish infatuation if you prefer). Ok, we could lecture about damaging effects of porn or something, but that's not the *heart* of Amanda's issues, I guess.
d) Amanda's regrets after sex with MC could have other reasons, motives of course. But added to a)-c) .... well, I dunno. She seems a troubled young woman. Who's not as smart at hiding it as Kathy, or as "generally-upbeat-in-spite-of-it-all" as Kathy, about where the hell she is swirling around now in life.

... Maybe she's just fallen in love with Mortelli, and for some reason deeply conflicted? (That was a joke.)

[4a] See [3]. But also, if there's wrong done, offense caused, whose responsibility is it to take the initiative?

[4b] Oh, I agree. And i think you underdo it when you say "Even purely erotic fiction exists to provoke a sexual reaction." If that erotic fiction is any good - actually even if it's NOT much good, but has an impact - that reaction is not going to be merely sexual, as if it were a physiological process transacted, but psychological, emotional, sometimes with deep roots ... whatever the causes, whatever consequences, and I suppose both may be quite deeply mixed.

But who said people are taking it too seriously? I thought the question was more on the lines of why are some so phenomenally angry? Or maybe I misread that, too!

Anyway, I'll shut up now. With apologies to anyone I may have bored the socks off, or annoyed the hell out of. It's just a set of views, no better than anyone else's.

 

[PPE2RedDucks]

I did not realize the backup was for online only, thank you. I played chapter 13 to the end and no, when i go back through all the previous chapters it does not recognize that i played. Im wondering if it had to do with the format of my external drive vs the new windows 10 im trying to run on. Looks like i will be replaying, not that i’ll mind to much.

I think the backup is also for downloadable too, or it used to be. Or have I misremembered?

I've also seen mention of a "dfd_converter" that I think allows you to carry previous progress from cracked to standard versions??? But I'm not sure who produced it, with what legitimacy if any, for between which chapters, and with what success. Perhaps look for it only if you get really desperate to plow ahead (if you're like the MC, perhaps ...!) More enjoyment (and pain) might be had by replaying properly, as you suggest. You can always "SKIP" the bits you know, on to the next decision point!

 

[Lonecanuck]

I think the backup is also for downloadable too, or it used to be. Or have I misremembered?

I've also seen mention of a "dfd_converter" that I think allows you to carry previous progress from cracked to standard versions??? But I'm not sure who produced it, with what legitimacy if any, for between which chapters, and with what success. Perhaps look for it only if you get really desperate to plow ahead (if you're like the MC, perhaps ...!) More enjoyment (and pain) might be had by replaying properly, as you suggest. You can always "SKIP" the bits you know, on to the next decision point!

No, back up saves are not for downloadable, only online.

 

[Regardie]

There are at least two members that have produced tools to convert offline / downloaded game saves to inline game saves. You can find them somewhere in the 300 pages of this thread.

 

[Zed | Love-Joint]

There are at least two members that have produced tools to convert offline / downloaded game saves to inline game saves. You can find them somewhere in the 300 pages of this thread.

Well we can only tell you what the official version is like. Cracked versions are not up to us.

 

[DrFog]

The bright side of Amanda going to the dark side is that the game is ending soon and we won't have to put up with her shit for much longer . This new "Summer School" game looks way more promising than the future of DFD anyways. Meanwhile, I'm still stoked about the other new game that I don't think we've heard squat about yet, but the 2D artwork for it looks great.

You must be registered to see the links

How about another concept from "Summer School"? (Yes, we are changing the name.) This is a game that will be coming very soon, while DFD is running. It's a 1080p game using our new engine and will be released monthly.

As usual,

You must be registered to see the links

, or download the file attached to this post. Living with two girls can be... hard.

This game is something you definitely don't want to miss.

 

[DrFog]

You must be registered to see the links

There's been a lot of comments regarding Amanda's behavior recently after the release of the free Chapter 14. She's been called "insane," "strange," and basically all other negative adjectives that I can think of "for turning her back against the player". What she actually did was to take some distance from the MC given what her mother's sister told her the MC had done to her mom. We think her reaction is pretty normal and realistic. There's obviously another scene in Chapter 14 that proves the two still feel strong love and passion toward each other.

But for the next chapter, there will be a lot of focus on this entire topic. And Amanda, of course.

I hope you guys will like it. We can't wait for you guys to play it!

Please don't spoil anything after DFD Ch 14 in the comments!

Palmer